they can help with avionics/software, while Pakistani/Ven. pilots teach them flying skills/tricks.
What makes you think Iranian pilots need to learn combat skills from Pakistani pilots or Venezuelan pilots?
You are using a computer or device to access the internet... can you instruct the Iranians on Unix machines?
It doesn't matter if you have never used a Unix machine before... you are using a computer and a Unix machine is a kind of computer...
it's a lot easier to learn running & jumping after learning crawling & walking, so they won't be complete diletants after cutting their teeth on them.
They make F-5 based planes that look and operate and perform a lot like F-5s... they didn't invent flying.
if they wanted up to 300 of them before 1979, they may want them again before 2025.
The only way they will get them is if they roll over and start letting the CIA pick their governments and leaders for them again... and I can say neither is likely to happen by Iranian choice.
that may not be much & not in the time frame they'll need them..
Time frame has nothing to do with it... if they buy some they could have pilots in Russia in 3 weeks learning to fly their new planes and be in Iran by the end of the year with the first batch of 20 planes if they sign the papers and pay for them. For thousands of times more money and 50 years they still wont have an operational effective force of F-16s operating in Iranian colours.
by the same token, if they can still fly them w/o US support & under sanctions, so will Iran be able to.
Bullshit, they have probably grounded most of their aircraft and are keeping a couple of planes airworthy with the pool of spare parts that was supposed to keep the whole fleet flying. That means they wont be flying very much... and has nothing to do with Iran who has never even flown the aircraft let alone operated it.
they may order both. Malaysia, Thailand, India, Indonesia, Egypt, KSA, Finland & Iraq been operating Western & Soviet/russian planes together for years.
And how many of those countries operated American planes without support?
Iran/China can get access to anything Iraq/Pakistan has, incl. their F-16s, at the 1st request/demand. The Iraqis will have more combat ready MiGs/J-7s Iran/China may give them than their F-16 no longer directly supported by the LM contractors.
They don't want F-16s.
The order for 300 F-16s was made by by America... the Shah was a CIA stooge that had to buy American weapons because he was an American agent.
Iraq &/ Pakistan. Btw copying that would be a lot easier than F-16 or its parts. Pilots can also be sent there instead on rotational basis.
So they can be assassinated by American murder drones?
smuggled out or officially sent, it could be loaded on a cargo ship/plane/large helo or a flatbed truck, depending on the circumstances. Those contractors, if they r still there, r not going to be in Iraq for much longer to notice anything.
Those contractors maintain the aircraft... you don't think they would let the Iraqis maintain their own aircraft do you?
they r not in Venezuela, got pulled out of Iraq as per that article & may pull out of Pakistan in the future.
And when they go the sortie ready rate drops from about 65% to about 5%...
IMO the US has run out of any more sanctions to impose on Iran anyway.
They can easily sanction countries doing business with Iran...
or perhaps their rebuttals.
I am pretty confident what you are suggesting is not going to happen.
at some point they'll need to be augmented/replaced.
Not really. The F-4 and F-14 were better made than newer planes and would last longer if needed.
Don't tell me the Israelis, Pakistanis, Chileans, & UAE (besides many others), r also stupid to not consider them crap. If it was so, they could have stuck with French fighters instead.
Most of them didn't buy them anyway... they were of some value to the US so they get money donated to them and that money has to be spent on American weapons... effectively the US taxpayer buys those countries weapons.... it is a money laundering scheme.
a nose surgery could be done, if need be. Enlarged nose cover won't affect the drag that much.
How would they know... they didn't design it... they didn't build it... they have never tested it... they know fuck all about the design and therefore are in no position to go dicking around with the design... They have a history of operating some American planes, and modifying one to suit their own needs... they are not working on the next best super fighter... unless that is based on the F-5.
not if they use their IRPs instead.
They wont be able to fund anything else if they are re engineering the F-16 from scratch... no inflight refuelling planes for Iran...
is it impossible to upgrade an engine or make a new 1, in Iran or elsewhere, to fit on it?
Yes it is.
Ask China... they have had Soviet jet engines like the RD-33 and Al-31 in aircraft in their service for several decades and are known for their clones but they can't even make good copies of these engines let alone improve their performance... they still import RD-93s from Russia for their exports to Pakistan and an RD-93 is an RD-33 with the gearbox moved to a different position.
Nothing against China... making good engines is hard... even countries that make planes like Sweden import their engines.
Iran may build an F-16 variant with 2 smaller engines like they did with their F-5 copy.
The F-5 comes with two engines... it is the American upgrade of the F-5 called the F-20 that has one engine.
Putting two engines in the F-16 would need a complete redesign... something not really possible when you don't even have the original design working.
true, but the F-16 may become their next F-5 to copy, in whole or in part.
Nobody would touch it.
After the Sentinel UAV was captured & copied, they chose not to do it.
The whole point of a UAV is that it is expendable....
adding to the costs & delaying the road completion. They already have railroads between their coasts & there's no hurry to build new high speed lines cost to coast.
If you listened to what I said it was a rail line that would be a direct link from the Caspian Sea to the Persian Gulf for crew and material transfer for a Russian warm water port... it does not matter if no one else uses it.... but of course they will.
changing/adding tooling in existing plants will be enough.
Really... because the F-16s weren't built in factories that built Phantoms and Tomcats...
Maybe they should just skip the F-16 and make F-35s instead.
I'm talking hypothetically. U r switching from that to the present reality- that's inconsistent.
Hahahahaha.... which translates to your talking dreams and I am talking about reality... of course the two views are inconsistent....
no, it happened gradually & during the 5 decades they had them operating.
So for them to be able to do the same with the F-16 they just need them in large numbers and to operate and maintain them for the next 5 decades and then they will be able to manage their new F-16s... except there is no way they can get them in large numbers and even if they could they can't operate them long enough to learn how to maintain them or support them or make support parts themselves...
the Chinese already done it with their F-35 inspired J-31 they can sell to Iran.
But Iran is not allowed to buy new planes... they have to steal the designs of others like rats.
Iran has more strings to control it than any1 else.
Keep pulling those strings.... the last time got that General murdered in cold blood.
I mentioned it to show that even the US allies can do what's in their interests, as they did in the past.
So something magical might happen and America might gift Iran some F-16s...
even if they get Su-30s/J-16s (F-15 counterpart), they would still go forward with the F-16 before they can dream of jumping to F-22/35 or Su-57 5th gen. level planes.
Su-30 is a step above an F-16 and an F-35 would be two steps further back... America could bankrupt Iran by gifting them F-35s instead...
There's a need for both heavy & light fighters.
And if they had Su-30s they still have MiG-29s and F-4s and F-14s and F-5s.... they don't need another fighter.
Iraq is no position to deny Iran access to anything- it now owes its very existence to it.
Could say the same about the UK and US but it is not true there either.
Even their F-14s can't face the F-22s- they'll need something better than the F-14 to shoot 1 down!
Iran would face an uphill struggle against the US, but their best bet at defeating an F-22 is to destroy the airfield it operates from with ballistic missiles and to lure their aircraft into SAM traps...
The Japanese F-2, based on F-16, has an enlarged wing & Iran could redesign it to. They may even make it with a delta wing.
The Japanese version of the F-16 is about three times more expensive than the American F-16 and the Americans helped them to design it.
It is not three times better than an American F-16.
Regarding the F-16XL even the Americans rejected it... and they had F-16s in service so there would be commonality with other aircraft they operate.
it won't a 1st plane or esp. its parts they'll copy, & it won't take them decades.
You posted yourself it took five decades for previous generation models... why do you think it wont take even longer for a much more complex design?
Besides, any future copying will go faster regardless how long it took to copy a previos plane.
Not if the new plane is much more complex and totally different. There are no F-5 parts in an F-16... even the gun is different.
But as I said several times already, they may need to copy certain parts & modify the airframe,etc. which will be easier.
The important parts in the engine that need maintenance and replacing they have zero experience with... it uses a different engine from any plane they have ever operated before.
I realize that the F-16 induction may never happen but it still could happen, esp. should Iran be left with no other option & decide that this fighter will suit their needs.
Even if they didn't have any option at all it would make more sense to try to reverse engineer planes they have.... the MiG-29 and F-1....
The proof in the pudding, is in the eating. I am not saying Iranian planes are invincible. But you all imply that American or Russian planes are invincible.
Not at all. American planes are nothing like invincible but they don't play fair and they use their advantages and take advantages of your weaknesses... They didn't just fly in there and fight fair against Iraq... they launched cruise missile strikes and used Apache helicopters to sneak in and take down major Iraqi radars so that wave after wave of cruise missiles could then hit airfields and SAM sites and communications centres and HQs to break their air defence network.
Once they had done that they were a complete enemy armed force fighting small groups of enemy acting on their own with no support or information or communication and the crushed them.... and secured their oil wells before they secured the cities.
The key was that they had AWACS and JSTARS over the battlefield so they could see exactly what was happening. AWACS isn't just a radar... it is a command and control centre... when it detects targets or threats it can direct friendly forces to engage. It can determine what the enemy force is and it knows its capabilties so the friendly force sent to engage can go radars off because they are receiving their air view from AWACS and JSTARS... the AWACS controllers can direct those interceptors to a launch position directly behind the targets... those interceptors will have been topped up with fuel before being sent to intercept and will have long range AAMs ready to use from behind where the enemy wont see what is coming.... most of the time it will be some third world country with a MiG-21 that wont even know it is under attack and boom... some danish pilot gets his countries first air to air kill since WWII... but he just flew where he was ordered and pushed a button... the Red Barron would be ashamed... and jealous.
I am sure Iran would do much better than Iraq did if only because they were able to see how America and her henchmen of bastards did it and can learn from mistakes made.
Iran, even if making capable planes or even if it buys foreign planes. Can not buy in large enough numbers to win against an airforce like USA or Russia. In this case, these planes of whatever origin, will only be at best a temporary force, to bring down superpower planes, hoping to sue for peace, within the first few weeks. If no peace, then no number of planes is going to save Iran. Then Iran has to show the big guns anyway.
A reasonable sized force of aircraft to protect your air space and ballistic missiles that can reach and hurt US forces in the region is about the best you can reasonably hope for... but when you buy an Su-30 and you buy a few RVV-BD 200km range anti AWACS missiles... which you then hotwire and extend in range by putting a big booster on it to perhaps 600km range... well US aircraft are going to have to operate on their own like their enemies have been doing... a real level playing field is all you need.
For the moderators... would it be possible to move the f16 speculations to another thread? A couple of posts would have been ok, but now it seems to have become main topic for the Iranian air force
Ok, i legit don't get where this F-16 craze is coming from, from what we know, Iran only has one F-16 that they got from Venezuela.
Not enough to canalize and fly, because there's only one.
Having one aircraft for study means little. It would be normal and it would not be the Iranian air force looking at the plane it would be Iranian intelligence.
Will be moving large portions of this thread to a new topic