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    Talking bollocks thread #3

    The-thing-next-door
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    Post  The-thing-next-door on Fri Jun 12, 2020 6:30 pm

    GarryB wrote:they have as many smart engineers as anyone else has

    What on earth gives you that idea? They have a bunch of local grown morons who have gone through ther ultra dumbed down education system and a bunch of random scumbags so loyal and devotes that they left thier country because the pindos pay more.

    They might have had some decent engineers back in the previous century but now I doubt thay have a single one.
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    Post  GarryB on Sat Jun 13, 2020 1:01 pm

    Dude.

    It is called a bell curve because it looks like a bell.

    The bulk in the middle are normal you and me type people (everyone thinks they are of normal intelligence except for arrogant pricks who think they are smarter than most people... but everyone does stupid things all the time and occasionally smart things too).

    The fact of the matter is that on each side of the bell curve there are dumb people and there are smart people in every population.

    If you take the bell curve of intelligence for every country on the planet there is not that much variation the centres of the bell curves would not be that far apart and either way the vast majority of people are close enough that it doesn't really matter much anyway.

    Sometimes you get real outliers who are way above anybody else but they are rare.

    The point is that if you are actually measuring intelligence rather than general knowledge then there are tribes in Papua New Gunea where there are people just as smart as the smartest white guy.

    There are plenty of people going to Oxford or Cambridge who would die in the wild because they couldn't look after themselves... people who couldn't wire a plug themselves and have to post it home to mummy and daddy to do it.

    Funny thing is that most westerners think the west is the pinnacle of civilisation and that Russia wouldn't be able to build a bridge to the Crimea... and it would take 20 years and go 1000 times over budget and it will fall down in 5 years time anyway... and do you know the really funny thing... is that despite having a bigoted and ignorant view of Russia they would probably be right if they were talking about local projects in Europe that do screw up and do go way over budget and the resulting product is rubbish and the reason they are so sour about Russia is because they seem to be getting stuff done... stuff they don't seem to be able to do any more themselves.
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    Post  The-thing-next-door on Sun Jun 14, 2020 10:27 am

    So Garry are you trying to claim that the whole planet has got immeasurably dumber or that the west is not comprised of morons?
    For the former you might be able to make a case but to claim the latter would be moronic.

    In the past most people across the planet had something called common sense, if you are goin to claim that the modern west is not completely retarded you might want to explain what happened to it.

    We have to remember that we are dealing with people that deal with problems by pretending that they do not exist.
    Outmatched by Russian missiles? Just revive some 1970's museum pices and claim them to be superweapons!
    That is the level of 'intelligence' we are dealing with.
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    Post  GarryB on Sun Jun 14, 2020 12:38 pm

    So Garry are you trying to claim that the whole planet has got immeasurably dumber or that the west is not comprised of morons?

    Are you confusing intelligence with knowledge? 500 years ago a lot of what people thought about the world was wrong... does that make them stupid?

    80 percent of Americans think Elvis is actually still alive, but does that make them stupid or wrong or perhaps they just misunderstood the question... surely if radio stations continue to play his music then in a way he does live on.

    For the former you might be able to make a case but to claim the latter would be moronic.

    Intelligence is not what you know. It is how well you work things out for yourself, it is making the right choice first... you don't need to stick your hand into the fire to understand pain... the clear feeling of increased heat as your hand gets closer is sufficient to stop you actually plunging your hand into the flame.

    Intelligence is not limited to humans... I only had to pick up my sisters cat and push him back inside through an open window he kept climbing out of but did not seem to realise he could get back in through and would meow at the door till he was let in. Once he understood he could get in and out he was fine.

    In the past most people across the planet had something called common sense, if you are goin to claim that the modern west is not completely retarded you might want to explain what happened to it.

    Common sense is not innate within a person protecting them from stupid things. Common sense is just a generally held belief that everyone assumes is true and never tests for themselves.

    For a while even though politicians were not trusted the media was because the media always seemed to be anti politicians and previously would not agree with them or take what they say at face value without checking. Now they just copy and paste without even thinking... for instance it was common sense that Putin poisoned the Skripals because only Russia has that sort of poison and that a dead ex Russian spy is in their interests. Sounds like common sense till you examine it... if they wanted him dead they had years to kill him when he was in prison. They could have killed him instead of swapping him for someone else. And of course the fact that HATO all have manufactured their own brew of the poison in question in fact it is likely the only country that doesn't have lots of samples is Russia because it was a soviet design and now is centred in Kazakhstan or somewhere that is not Russia. Now it makes little sense at all... making the British government and british media and western media and western governments who all believed it look rather silly. No apology of course. No embarassment. No rolling back all the arbitrary punishments inflicted on Russia for this made up bullshit.

    We have to remember that we are dealing with people that deal with problems by pretending that they do not exist.
    Outmatched by Russian missiles? Just revive some 1970's museum pices and claim them to be superweapons!
    That is the level of 'intelligence' we are dealing with.

    Indeed... very stupid.... but at the end of the day Russia having some hypersonic missiles and some super nuclear weapons that definitely will make it through to their targets... we still end up with the status quo... both sides are able to inflict damage the other side is able to survive taking and there is nothing either side can do to stop the other inflicting that damage except to not try yourself.

    MAD... mutually assured destruction works even though by definition it works.
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    Post  The-thing-next-door on Sun Jun 14, 2020 6:01 pm

    Do you presume that I do not understand the meaning of the word intelligence?

    Intelligence is the ability to reason, to comprehend, the ability to work things out without any prior knowledge of them.
    We now get to our point reason, comprehend and work out mellenials do not!

    They sit there all day polluting my planet with thier stupidity while making as much of nusense of them selves as is physically possible, there is not an intelligent thought in thier empty heads only a bunch of moronic programming installed by various media.



    There ofcourse are still people who have most of thier mental faculties intact however they are few and far between these days.... atleast in the english speaking world that is.
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    Post  GarryB on Mon Jun 15, 2020 6:52 am

    For every idiot out protesting and robbing stores by looting there are plenty of law abiding quite sensible people keeping society going...

    This is miles off topic so I am going to shift it to the talking bollocks thread where it belongs.
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    Post  Sujoy on Fri Jun 26, 2020 3:32 pm

    dino00 wrote:This will be moved to other place of the forum but I can't let this go away, Sujoy you are wrong CIA don't have any problem with Christians or Protestant, they coups are exclusively against left government, allies of Russia, allies of Iran, or countries that Israel or the Big corporations can't exploit, some countries are all this.
    Sorry for the Off Topic and the work for the Moderator.

    The population of Protestants is increasing day in, day out across South America. It has been very well documented, for example in this book

    Is Latin America Turning Protestant?: The Politics of Evangelical Growth

    https://www.amazon.com/Latin-America-Turning-Protestant-Evangelical-ebook/dp/B004E0Z43K

    Apart from that, according to prominent Catholic blogger Jorge Rondón in his essay: La Expansión del Protestantismo Fue Parte del Plan de Guerra de la CIA para América del Sur (The Expansion of Protestantism Was Part of CIA War Plan for South America), US President Richard Nixon encouraged the introduction of Protestant missions after a 1969 memorandum received by then Vice President Nelson Rockefeller which stated: "the Catholic church has ceased to be an ally in whom the U.S. can have confidence


    https://web.archive.org/web/20180828134247/https://medium.com/@juliosevero/the-religious-war-between-cia-and-kgb-in-latin-america-50d7ade40b95

    Previously the CIA used the Vatican. But for the last 10-15 years they have spend billions of $$ to promote the growth of Protestantism across South America by infiltrating the government of those countries as well as their civil society.
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    Post  dino00 on Fri Jun 26, 2020 5:05 pm

    Sujoy wrote:
    dino00 wrote:This will be moved to other place of the forum but I can't let this go away, Sujoy you are wrong CIA don't have any problem with Christians or Protestant, they coups are exclusively against left government, allies of Russia, allies of Iran, or countries that Israel or the Big corporations can't exploit, some countries are all this.
    Sorry for the Off Topic  and the work for the Moderator.

    The population of Protestants is increasing day in, day out across South America. It has been very well documented, for example in this book

    Is Latin America Turning Protestant?: The Politics of Evangelical Growth

    https://www.amazon.com/Latin-America-Turning-Protestant-Evangelical-ebook/dp/B004E0Z43K

    Apart from that, according to prominent Catholic blogger Jorge Rondón in his essay: La Expansión del Protestantismo Fue Parte del Plan de Guerra de la CIA para América del Sur (The Expansion of Protestantism Was Part of CIA War Plan for South America), US President Richard Nixon encouraged the introduction of Protestant missions after a 1969 memorandum received by then Vice President Nelson Rockefeller which stated: "the Catholic church has ceased to be an ally in whom the U.S. can have confidence


    https://web.archive.org/web/20180828134247/https://medium.com/@juliosevero/the-religious-war-between-cia-and-kgb-in-latin-america-50d7ade40b95

    Previously the CIA used the Vatican. But for the last 10-15 years they have spend billions of $$ to promote the growth of Protestantism across South America by infiltrating the government of those countries as well as their civil society.

    I am an agnostic atheist and I hope all the religions loose their malignant power.

    Saying that, it's true that in Brazil the Evangelic Church has a tremendous power, including in politics were they have a political block that votes according to the Bible.
    And to be honest I don't know exactly what the Protestant are for, and the difference from others religions.

    I just hope for the best of all Humanity we can one day live without religion, or at least that people don't put they invisible friend in the middle of people's rights and lives.
    Sujoy don't take it bad, but I think that your President is taking India to a very bad path, and challenging China it's not a good idea.

    It's your country and I don't know much about the difficult situation regarding border status, but I am seeing India's democracy strength shrinking...and more and more people taking the side of China and Pakistan, and revaluating who supports terrorism and who doesn't...I included.
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    Post  Sujoy on Fri Jun 26, 2020 8:25 pm

    dino00 wrote:Sujoy don't take it bad, but I think that your President is taking India to a very bad path, and challenging China it's not a good idea.
    I certainly don't mind. I suspect you are referring to India's Prime Minister. If you have some time, you can check some of my recent posts where I've categorically mentioned that our PM has been created by US, Saudi Arabia and Israel. So he is basically following their instructions.

    However, as far as China is concerned it is China not India which has adopted a very aggressive posture. China has entered Indian territory by force. They are carrying out such antics across Asia.

    dino00 wrote:It's your country and I don't know much about the difficult situation regarding border status, but I am seeing India's democracy strength shrinking...and more and more people taking the side of China and Pakistan, and revaluating who supports terrorism and who doesn't...I included.

    Pakistan says it exists only to destroy India and establish a Sunni Islamic nation. Pakistan continues to promote Islamic terrorism in several countries. It doesn't want good relations with India.

    I'm not sure which people you are referring to when you say "more and more people taking the side of China and Pakistan". Will you please elaborate?

    On the contrary Anglo-Saxon states that generally hates us are all siding with India against China. Similarly, China's military aggression in South China sea is bringing ASEAN and Japan much closer to India.
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    Post  dino00 on Fri Jun 26, 2020 9:08 pm

    Yes it was PM Modi, the president I never heard of.
    About the disputes about territories I am sure it's a very complicated matter, with various sides saying their interpretation is the correct one.
    I found strange that 2 Nuclear powers are risking a war because some desolated place. Big Egos I guess.
    I don't follow India/Pakistan/China politics close but from what I read in recent times the new Pakistan Prime Minister ( I was to write President, but a quick Google search helped Very Happy )
    Looks to be a completely different politic compared to his predecessors, but Pakistan is a very complicated case...

    Online I am seeing more and more people that previously had a good view of India and a bad of Pakistan completely reverse their judgement. The prime minister I say, it's like they have their politicians exchanged Very Happy .

    China is a military super power with empire hunger, with all respect India can't win a limited conventional war against China, and wouldn't survive a nuclear one.
    I sincerely hope the Indian politics do their best to wedge war against poverty, not try military adventurism.

    I tried to be the most honest but respectfully I could, this isn't my country, my knowledge is scarce about the matter and it's a serious situation.
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    Post  Sujoy on Fri Jun 26, 2020 9:58 pm

    dino00 wrote:
    Online I am seeing more and more people that previously had a good view of India and a bad of Pakistan completely reverse their judgement.
    dino00, I'm sorry, you need to share some more information about who these people are. Which country are they from? For all that we know, they could well be part of the Chinese and Pakistani internet troll army.

    Can't these people see how China is bullying Vietnam, Phillipines, Indonesia and Malaysia almost every single day by trying to lay claim to their territories?

    dino00 wrote:China is a military super power with empire hunger, with all respect India can't win a limited conventional war against China, and wouldn't survive a nuclear one.
    I sincerely hope the Indian politics do their best to wedge war against poverty, not try military adventurism.
    To be sure, Indian politicians do NOT have the appetite for military adventurism. They do not intend to invade China. But China has a long history of invading other countries.

    1950 - Tibet

    1962- India

    1969 - Soviet Union

    1979 - Vietnam

    If war is thrust upon you by the Chinese what other options do you have except for fighting back? China was a nuclear power in 1969 and 1979. Did that prevent the Soviet Union or Vietnam from fighting back? No. Why? Because they had no other option but to fight China.

    Had they not fought back, today Vietnam and Siberia would both have been a part of China and Russians and Vietnamese would have been rotting in Chinese gulags.
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    Post  dino00 on Fri Jun 26, 2020 10:23 pm

    About the internet thing that it's not that important... same people that had an opinion on India and Pakistan behavior, with the Modi nationalism, and the surprising peaceful behavior of the Pakistan Prime Minister in the fight they had some time ago, changed their opinion, but this is anecdotal, n terms of the 2 countries behaviors Pakistan was the mature one, I am not talking about who "won" militarily.

    About the border disputes I don't know. India should deescalate, Russia would happily intermediate, if it isn't already.
    China wouldn't take anything from Soviet Union. Zero.
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    Post  Isos on Fri Jun 26, 2020 11:11 pm

    China is a military super power

    No it's not. They need Russian help for any state of the art stuff they produce, the best hardwares they operate are bought in Russua and their soldier have no experience.

    They also have no real allies.

    Russia would happily intermediate, if it isn't already.

    Nope. They are already trying to hurry up the contracts for 21 mig-29 and 12 su30mki. They also agreed to speed up delivry of S-400.


    Last edited by Isos on Fri Jun 26, 2020 11:13 pm; edited 1 time in total
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    Post  magnumcromagnon on Fri Jun 26, 2020 11:11 pm

    dino00 wrote:About the internet thing that it's not that important... same people that had an opinion on India and Pakistan behavior, with the Modi nationalism, and the surprising peaceful behavior of the Pakistan Prime Minister in the fight they had some time ago,  changed their opinion, but this is anecdotal, n terms of the 2 countries behaviors Pakistan was the mature one, I am not talking about who "won" militarily.

    About the border disputes I don't know. India should deescalate, Russia would happily intermediate, if it isn't already.
    China wouldn't take anything from Soviet Union. Zero.

    "Thank FM Sergei Lavrov for convening the Russia-India-China (RIC) Meeting of Foreign Ministers today. A productive exchange of views on the global order, multilateralism, multipolarity and convergences." - External Affairs Minister of India, Dr. S. Jaishankar

    https://twitter.com/DrSJaishankar/status/1275455565808848897

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    Post  dino00 on Fri Jun 26, 2020 11:41 pm

    Isos: Respectfully I couldn't disagree more with your post even if I tried Very Happy

    Did Russia helped with the DF-41, DF-21,DF-26, DF-17, what about the aircraft carriers, destroyers, supersonic long range cruise missiles, UAV that in many cases are way ahead of Russian ones, the supersonic drone?etc...

    Which countries do you characterize as an military super power?

    About the Russia role on this, Russia can intermediate between the two and still sell weapons to both ahead of time and still don't antagonize neither, as you can see in the magnumcromagnon post

    thumbsup

    Fun fact: India and Portugal had a 2 day war in 1961 we totally won!!! Very Happy  joking. People died for nothing. We were a fascist dictatorship, glad we lost, Goa should be Indian obviously.
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    Post  Isos on Sat Jun 27, 2020 12:11 am

    Their BM are at the level of soviets in the 70s-80s... they have nothing comparable to modern russian ones.

    Their carriers are a copy of soviet design. Until the CATOBAR which will be a total failure. Their j-15 is a copy of su-33 thanks to Ukraine who sold them some su-33.

    Their supersonic missiles are total copies of russian kh31 and oniks. They have nothing that comes close to kh-22/32 and no supersonic bombers.

    Their UAV suck. All the countries that bought some are trying to sell them back. For that matter I would take Iranian stuff over theirs.

    The quality of their stuff is low. Exemple of tank biathlon when their tanks fall apart.

    Their army is untrained and is mostly used to keep an eye on the people in case they try a revolution.


    Depend what you call a military superpower. For that matter, considering countries geostrategies, only Russia is a military superpower. Only because they have no expension will. USA try to dominate the world but without all the "allies" they have, they wouldn't be able to do so. China is no better and struggle in taking some islands, let alone taking countries or dominating the world.

    Russia isn't pushing them at war. But they talked about the weapon with India first and then talked about meetings to calm things down.
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    Post  dino00 on Sat Jun 27, 2020 12:20 am

    I understand a big share of your points, and was expecting some of them.

    Their BM are at the level of soviets in the 70s wrote:

    You can't believe in what you wrote above, if you are being serious you just can't.

    I agree that Russia is ahead in the most important related military systems, let's hope it keeps that way.
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    Post  Isos on Sat Jun 27, 2020 12:29 am

    You can't believe in what you wrote above, if you are being serious you just can't.

    That's the case. For exemple russian Iskander which is better than any chinese equivalent is just the update of soviet Oka missile which was banned under INF treaty because it was so good it affraid americans. That's 80s technology and is still better than chinese stuff.

    The natural follow up missile for russians are hypersonic missiles and they introducing them. Chinese have nothing like that and are producing those DF which are at the level of soviet stuff. Russians are introducing the kinzhal which is launched by a quite old interceptor that the chinese would love to get an assembly line for.

    Edit: I just looked for another exemple and try to compare their JL2 whuch was was introduced in 2005 and soviet R-29RM which was in use since 1986. Same caracteristics and even better for the soviet missile but 20 years between the two. The R-29RM was improved since then and is even better.


    Last edited by Isos on Sat Jun 27, 2020 12:45 am; edited 2 times in total
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    Post  dino00 on Sat Jun 27, 2020 12:36 am

    Isos wrote:
    You can't believe in what you wrote above, if you are being serious you just can't.

    That's the case. For exemple russian Iskander which is better than any chinese equivalent is just the update of soviet Oka missile which was banned under INF treaty because it was so good it affraid americans. That's 80s technology and is still better than chinese stuff.

    The natural follow up missile for russians are hypersonic missiles and they introducing them. Chinese have nothing like that and are producing those DF which are at the level of soviet stuff. Russians are introducing the kinzhal which is launched by a quite old interceptor that the chinese would love to get an assembly line for.

    I quote on purpose only the 70's part Very Happy
    DF-17 is a serious threat.

    China will be the number 2 military super power in the 30's, if not in quantity at least in quality.
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    Post  Isos on Sat Jun 27, 2020 12:44 am

    I edited my post. The soviet missiles used in the 80s were developed in the 70s.

    China will be the number 2 military super power in the 30's, if not in quantity at least in quality.

    We are already in 2021. How would they lead in quality in 2030s ? They will use the stuff they are producing today and it sucks. They better keep the quantity on their side...
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    Post  miketheterrible on Sat Jun 27, 2020 3:57 am

    Any ballistic missile is a threat. No matter what. But that isn't what will make China some super duper warrior. Their equipment on average is sub par and in reality, so is their training. They will have a difficult time against India. Now lets see them actually go up against someone more defined and well organized?
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    Post  GarryB on Sat Jun 27, 2020 12:03 pm

    Saudi Arabia has some of the best technology money can buy.

    Personally I think there are only three military forces that could be called super powers... Russia, the US, and HATO... the UK and France together in HATO are formidable but on their own their ability to project military power is limited.

    Chinas ability to project military power around the world is poor, though their military is expanding they have shown no interest or ability to actually use it.

    China is certainly an economic super power... more so than Russia...

    What I also think is that fundamentally China and India and Russia gain nothing from infighting... if they work together they can be vastly more powerful and more prosperous than any can manage on their own.

    Fighting with each other is exactly what the UK and US wants because united you are an enormous threat to their monopoly and hegemony.

    Also respect to members going out of their way to avoid disrespecting those they are talking to... it is easy to come across as a know-all arrogant jerk, who acts like they have all the answers and solutions without really fully understanding all sides of the situation.... that is called colonialism.

    The fact is that if China and India go to war it could escalate to a nuclear war... and in that situation both countries will lose... the US on the other hand will think it is one problem getting rid of another...
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    Post  miketheterrible on Sat Jun 27, 2020 1:57 pm

    Well, at the behest of India, Russia was brought in to negotiate sort of. China isn't interested but partook, because they think that they are not at fault. China is indeed fully responsible for the border issue with India.

    But, while tensions are still high, both sides are pushing this to be resolved peacefully and respectfully. And rightly so because they too know they benefit nothing over this ordeal.

    As I said to someone else outside the series of tubes, the best option now is India to enforce the area with bunkers, fences and equipment. China will do the same. But having physical assets where it becomes impossible to maneuver around each other, it forces both their hands from encroachment and to be nice.

    Russia still heavily enforces their Chinese border even though they are aware that the western border is their most likely hotbed.

    China has to grow up and stop with these temper tantrums. China would gain way more respect, then power, if they just stopped with the petty land encroachment and censorship of media that criticizes them (south park as example). Because their lashing out, all around them, will just garner less support.
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    Post  Sujoy on Sat Jun 27, 2020 8:11 pm

    dino00 wrote:Fun fact: India and Portugal had a 2 day war in 1961 we totally won!!! Very Happy  joking. People died for nothing. We were a fascist dictatorship, glad we lost, Goa should be Indian obviously.
    dino00, I'm aware of this war. But if it's any solace most Goan Christians even today identify themselves as Portuguese. In fact most of them have Portuguese last names like Santos, Cedric, DSouza, DCunha etc. Maybe India won the battle, but Portugal won the war.  Cool

    GarryB wrote:What I also think is that fundamentally China and India and Russia gain nothing from infighting... if they work together they can be vastly more powerful and more prosperous than any can manage on their own.

    Fighting with each other is exactly what the UK and US wants because united you are an enormous threat to their monopoly and hegemony.
    Yes, it is indeed true that UK and US will gain enormously if China, India and Russia fights. ( As it is UK, US are darn sure that most Indians are dying of hunger as this recent BBC interview also proves https://twitter.com/CestMoiz/status/1276764344991117314?s=20. )

    However, as long as Russia has a massive nuclear arsenal I don't see China trying to pick up a fight against Russia.

    But just like I explained to dino00, it's not that India wants to fight against China. But China has a long history of invading other countries in Asia. Last May they entered Indian territory by force and has occupied a large area. It's not that India has entered Chinese territory. That area called Ladakh never belonged to China. China occupied Tibet in 1950 by force and established a border with India. Now they are trying to push that border further west by occupying Indian territory.

    So just like Soviet Union in 1969 and Vietnam in 1979 who had no choice but to fight the Chinese invasion, India today finds itself in a similar situation.

    India does not want war with China. But when invaded will have to fight back.
    dino00
    dino00

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    Post  dino00 on Sat Jun 27, 2020 9:03 pm

    Sujoy:

    Yes the first name you mentioned is my last one...DSouza it's strange, maybe De Sousa? We don't use zz in Sousa the Brazilians do, or maybe they changed it.
    But it's funny to look at the map and see how far we are apart and think Goa and other places belong to us, stupid empires thinking...And we are such a small country.
    India is one of the countries that are special to the Portuguese, especially because we found the maritime sea route to India, that is teach in schools and, on par with the discovery of Brazil is what we are more proud about how distant past, what we did after it's another terrible story.

    Countries that go to war( ours was a skirmish) can still have good relations, and our Prime Minister father is from Goa, our Prime Minister looks Indian, and I am proud of that.

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