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    Talking bollocks thread #3

    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB on 31/05/20, 04:30 pm

    British power has declined but they continue to exert influence using the US and China.

    British power is getting close to taking a serious hit... they have left the EU... do you think the EU countries are going to continue to do all their business through London?

    When that stops then British influence will diminish dramatically and it will have to start spending more resources just getting by and have less available for interfering in the interests of other countries like it has.

    They also have their British Overseas Territories intact that are ground zero for global money laundering.

    Britains empire is nothing like what it was.... there was too much neglect for it to remain intact... they chose their new euro buddies over us... some expectations are going to be shattered...

    Then, India should make some concessions & join China to get her place under the Sun. "If u can't beat them, join them!"
    After that, the UK will have nothing left to do in India's corridors of power.

    India needs to take a damn good look at itself and decide what it wants to do and how it expects to do it.

    If it wants genuine independence from Britain it wont get that from Britain or the US or the EU it can only find that inside itself... America will try to say they have the answers but really they only want you to shift from the UK and Soviet Union/Russia to them to a relationship more like the one you had with the UK rather than with the Soviets/Russians.

    To get that relationship with the US you must give up any relationships with the UK or Russia, but they will continue to be friends with whomever they please.

    Well if you can see that you should be able to understand that if Russia is severely damaged but the west is ash then Russia has won.

    Russia wins by both Russia and the US remaining intact and Russia growing and developing and becoming stronger and moving in directions that are better for the Russian people... Russia could care less what the US does... it is really not Russias concern...

    Perhaps not an ideal outcome but with western politicians being what they are do you think Russia has a choice in the matter? When the other side loses thier sanity and attempts to build an ABM system the only logical response is to build one yourself and prepare for the worst.

    Russia has the best ABM system and is improving it all the time. Under the ABM treaty each side was allowed one system. It could be used to defend one ICBM field or the national capital and could not consist of more than about 100 interceptor missiles. The Soviets built and maintain an ABM system around Moscow... the Americans developed one for an ICBM field but it was never operational... an ABM system around an ICBM field is pointless it is easier and quicker to launch all the ICBMs than to try to stop any attacking missiles from hitting it.

    Since the Americans tore up the ABM treaty Russia has been able to develop mobile ABM missiles based on their ABM system around Moscow, and also expand the performance of the S-400 into Anti IRBM performance and also develop the S-500 system which will be entering service soon on land and later at sea and possibly in the air (an air launched S-500 would probably hit satellites at any altitude or orbit...).

    No body is better defended from air attack than Russia, but that is not to say they are safe from anything.

    The Russian government has been slowly and silently working on its aerospace defences for quite some time, this would seem to suggest that my theory is correct and they recognise that relying sustained peace with egotistical retards is moronic and that the best course of action is to to take measures to minimise the damage to Russia in the inevitable conflict and then to make damned sure that when the war happens the other side is dead functioning ABMs or not (I ofcourse refer to the newer ABM bypassing missiles) and cannot cause any further problems.
    That way Russia may live on.

    It is pretty clear with doomsday weapons like nuclear powered unlimited range cruise missiles and Poseidon strategic weapons that they want to ensure mutually assured destruction or at least their side of the bargain (ie as much of the west is destroyed as they can manage).

    Whether the west understands that or not is irrelevant, but when they eventually work it out then they will come to the table to negotiate and get rid of as many nukes as they can.

    If you can see a better way I would love to hear it and I assume so would the Russian government.

    MAD works and is the only sane solution... as ironic as that sounds. Of course ABM systems could lead to potential for stopping or at least blunting the effects of a serious impact from something from space.

    That does not explain why it has 100 interceptors when only the first 1 will work now does it.

    Their ABM missiles detonate inside the earths atmosphere so they don't generate as much EMP as an explosion outside the atmosphere like an EMP weapon would.
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    Post  Sujoy on 31/05/20, 05:13 pm

    GarryB wrote:India needs to take a damn good look at itself and decide what it wants to do and how it expects to do it.
    It can't. Indian politicians are controlled by the US and UK. Our current Finance Minister is the most mediocre person to have taken over this office. Not even elected. But if you look at her background you'll notice she graduated from a UK based university. Our previous PM, went on to serve 2 terms without getting himself elected. He too is a product of UK university.

    Our current PM is controlled by the US. He openly rubs shoulders with the likes of Kissinger, Blair, Rice and Soros
    https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/politics-and-nation/pm-modi-meets-members-of-jp-morgan-international-council/videoshow/71711780.cms

    Our NSA (previously Director of R&AW)is a billionaire whose son resides in the US and is a business partner of a Saudi oil magnate.

    Bureaucrats, politicians, judges whose annual salary will be around US$ 30K-40K send their kids to US, UK universities where the tuition fee per year is in excess of US$ 100K. How do you think they manage to do that?

    These are the levers across the political divide with which the US and UK controls India.

    The current leadership has been handpicked by Trump and Israel and financed by Saudi Arabia.

    GarryB wrote:To get that relationship with the US you must give up any relationships with the UK or Russia, but they will continue to be friends with whomever they please.
    UK works day in, day out along with China to destabilize India. Putin has nothing to complain against the current Indian leadership either,because Russia is not losing out due to the closeness of India's elite with the US. For instance in the last six years Russia has been awarded US$ 18 billion worth of weapons contract by India. Plus Modi paid Putin US$ 1 billion as protection money using flimsy pretexts like developing eastern Russia.
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    Post  The-thing-next-door on 31/05/20, 10:19 pm

    GarryB wrote:

    Russia wins by both Russia and the US remaining intact and Russia growing and developing and becoming stronger and moving in directions that are better for the Russian people... Russia could care less what the US does... it is really not Russias concern...

    Well that would require them to somehow sustain peace with the pindos, what would you have them do become fear incarnate?

    There is another problem with this. The us will collapse under the weight of its decadence and uselessness and when this happens it is not atall unlikely that they will fire off thier arsenal in some deluded last ditch effort to prolong the life of thier rotting corpse of a county.
    Tell me what is your master plan for this eventuality?


    It is pretty clear with doomsday weapons like nuclear powered unlimited range cruise missiles and Poseidon strategic weapons that they want to ensure mutually assured destruction or at least their side of the bargain (ie as much of the west is destroyed as they can manage).

    Whether the west understands that or not is irrelevant, but when they eventually work it out then they will come to the table to negotiate and get rid of as many nukes as they can.

    There is absolutely nothing mutual about the destruction assured by Russian nuclear superiority, its primary function is to destroy Russia's enemies in the case of a war and its second is to hopefully scare them enough to stay away.

    And what makes you think that Russia would agree to a disarmament treaty with thoes slime even if they could somehow come up with a fair one? Perhaps if they gave Russia a helpless europe on a silver platter but otherwise such a treaty would only be signed when hell freezes over.



    MAD works and is the only sane solution... as ironic as that sounds. Of course ABM systems could lead to potential for stopping or at least blunting the effects of a serious impact from something from space.

    And for how much longer? Does your plan include secretly brainwashing the stupidity out of the entire us government?

    The question is what to do when the only thing the term MAD applies to is the other side, to sit there and hope that enemy's common sense will keep them at bay is foolish. Hubris has a way of getting people to do stupid things and die stupid deaths just look at hitler and napoleon.
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    Post  Tsavo Lion on 01/06/20, 02:36 am

    UK works day in, day out along with China to destabilize India.
    they + US worked to destabilize the USSR until it imploded. India may end up divided as well- what then?
    I'm sure of only 1 thing: it will be accompanied by a bloodbath like the last time the Hindustan split into India, Pakistan & Bangladesh.
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    Post  Sujoy on 01/06/20, 02:08 pm

    Tsavo Lion wrote:they + US worked to destabilize the USSR until it imploded. India may end up divided as well- what then?
    USSR was dissolved by the Kremlin. Had they not ventured into Afghanistan USSR would have existed even today. India is a different country altogether. We are not a nation state, rather a nation of states.

    As of now, opportunism binds India. But the large scale discrimination, cornering of resources that states in North & West carries out regularly will eventually force other states to question the viability of sticking to this Union. US and UK has been exploiting these fault lines for decades.

    Tsavo Lion wrote:I'm sure of only 1 thing: it will be accompanied by a bloodbath like the last time the Hindustan split into India, Pakistan & Bangladesh.  
    Possible. In all likelihood.
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    Post  GarryB on 01/06/20, 03:00 pm

    It can't. Indian politicians are controlled by the US and UK. Our current Finance Minister is the most mediocre person to have taken over this office. Not even elected. But if you look at her background you'll notice she graduated from a UK based university. Our previous PM, went on to serve 2 terms without getting himself elected. He too is a product of UK university.

    Well when the UK implodes then things will become a little easier, but the expansion of the internet in India means they are going to find out the truth so if their own news media wont tell them there will be RT or Aljizz to break it to them...

    The current leadership has been handpicked by Trump and Israel and financed by Saudi Arabia.

    As progress continues at a snails pace people will notice and start to rise up eventually... or remain where they are forever.

    UK works day in, day out along with China to destabilize India.

    Hong Kong shows they don't work together at all, and India seems to be destabilising itself all on its own well enough.

    Plus Modi paid Putin US$ 1 billion as protection money using flimsy pretexts like developing eastern Russia.

    That is an actual investment... when you get a reasonable return on that investment you will realise it was a good idea and do it again and make even more money.... that is how the west works... it finds good things and invests in them and sucks out money from those projects even though they often had very little to do with them except stump up the money to make them happen.... that is how the rich get richer.

    If you just put that money in the bank then the peanuts you get in interest you might as well have just spent it.

    Well that would require them to somehow sustain peace with the pindos, what would you have them do become fear incarnate?

    They just need to expand and grow the number of countries they trade with and make money for both countries so everyone is happy and everyone can continue to develop and grow.

    Americas tantrums and sanctions will just make them easier to avoid, because when they go they will likely collapse into bits that could be more interested in fighting each other than anyone else... a bit like the middle east....

    There is another problem with this. The us will collapse under the weight of its decadence and uselessness and when this happens it is not atall unlikely that they will fire off thier arsenal in some deluded last ditch effort to prolong the life of thier rotting corpse of a county.
    Tell me what is your master plan for this eventuality?

    More likely to be a collapse and internal division.... republican and democrat most likely... they will be far more focused on scrabbling for bits... who owns the navy or air force or army... how do we get all our military back and why should be listen to a central power that does not have our interests at heart?

    When it is state vs state with little or no unity then Canada can take back some land and so can Mexico and instead of facing the entire US it will only face a state or two. Americans are so interested in personal rights and individuality they will likely forget that it is all of them together that makes them strong including their differences.... they split bigger countries up when they can to make them weaker and their techniques applied in the former soviet union and yugoslavia could be applied domestically today...

    There is absolutely nothing mutual about the destruction assured by Russian nuclear superiority, its primary function is to destroy Russia's enemies in the case of a war and its second is to hopefully scare them enough to stay away.

    But that is the assurance... attack me and you are dead... no ifs or buts...

    And what makes you think that Russia would agree to a disarmament treaty with thoes slime even if they could somehow come up with a fair one? Perhaps if they gave Russia a helpless europe on a silver platter but otherwise such a treaty would only be signed when hell freezes over.

    It does not really make sense now anyway with Germany and perhaps Turkey looking to get their own nuclear weapons and of course France and the UK have nukes, why would Russia want an agreement with the US?

    And for how much longer? Does your plan include secretly brainwashing the stupidity out of the entire us government?

    Nope... the development of more and more powerful nuclear warheads and weapons to deliver them... an ICBM has serious weight limits in terms of warhead capacity... about 10 tons... but Posiedon could be scaled up to carry a 1 Tera ton bomb that is 1,000 tons... send it out to the middle of the Atlantic and boom... we all die.

    USSR was dissolved by the Kremlin. Had they not ventured into Afghanistan USSR would have existed even today.

    America would like you to think that... but the reality is that 15,000 dead in 10 years is not that big a deal in a 3 million man army... if you include suicides by US military personel who were in Afghanistan I would say they lost rather a lot more over the one and a half decades they have been there.... and they are not in a better position than the Soviets ever were.

    The soviets used old gear and relatively old weapons... without the experience they would not be the same force we see today...

    They had to go in to Afghanistan because the CIA started moving in in 1965 and would have turned Afghanistan into a Shah rules Iran puppet state...

    Or do you believe the western view that it was all part of the aggression... invade Afghanistan and then Pakistan for the purpose of getting a warm water port...
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    Post  The-thing-next-door on 01/06/20, 04:31 pm

    GarryB wrote:

    They just need to expand and grow the number of countries they trade with and make money for both countries so everyone is happy and everyone can continue to develop and grow.

    Americas tantrums and sanctions will just make them easier to avoid, because when they go they will likely collapse into bits that could be more interested in fighting each other than anyone else... a bit like the middle east....

    Russian economic success would only cause thoes delusional retards to do more stupid things.



    More likely to be a collapse and internal division.... republican and democrat most likely... they will be far more focused on scrabbling for bits... who owns the navy or air force or army... how do we get all our military back and why should be listen to a central power that does not have our interests at heart?

    When it is state vs state with little or no unity then Canada can take back some land and so can Mexico and instead of facing the entire US it will only face a state or two. Americans are so interested in personal rights and individuality they will likely forget that it is all of them together that makes them strong including their differences.... they split bigger countries up when they can to make them weaker and their techniques applied in the former soviet union and yugoslavia could be applied domestically today...

    You do realise that Russia and China are not hardcore idealists who believe in that thier enemies sovereignty or cultural values mean anything, Both will show show up at the party and both will have thier cake.


    But that is the assurance... attack me and you are dead... no ifs or buts...



    Nope... the development of more and more powerful nuclear warheads and weapons to deliver them... an ICBM has serious weight limits in terms of warhead capacity... about 10 tons... but Posiedon could be scaled up to carry a 1 Tera ton bomb that is 1,000 tons... send it out to the middle of the Atlantic and boom... we all die.

    You fail to take into account that the us is delusional even if Russia had a bomb that would literally end the universe they would still try to beat Russia, even if Russia was both omnipotent and omniscient they would still try to somehow win.

    Delusion and hubris are a deadly combination and there is often little you can do to stop it but kill.



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    Post  Sujoy on 01/06/20, 05:13 pm

    GarryB wrote:Hong Kong shows they don't work together at all,
    Riots in HK were sponsored by the US right from the start. UK is not sponsoring it. Overtly they support whatever position the US takes, because they need to maintain that "special relation" card which they can use against the rest of Europe. But covertly they are supporters of the Chinese.

    GarryB wrote:and India seems to be destabilising itself all on its own well enough.
    All of its own? How so?
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    Post  GarryB on 01/06/20, 07:36 pm

    Russian economic success would only cause thoes delusional retards to do more stupid things.

    With very few ties left to the US they can do what they like... it is more likely to hurt them and their allies than to hurt Russia...

    You do realise that Russia and China are not hardcore idealists who believe in that thier enemies sovereignty or cultural values mean anything, Both will show show up at the party and both will have thier cake.

    Neither Russia nor China are selling their cultures to the world... they just want to trade... it is the US that tries to impose the american way on its customers...

    You fail to take into account that the us is delusional even if Russia had a bomb that would literally end the universe they would still try to beat Russia, even if Russia was both omnipotent and omniscient they would still try to somehow win.

    There is a confidence and a calm that comes with the knowledge that you can end everyone if you choose to... once you have that all other issues are small and petty.

    Delusion and hubris are a deadly combination and there is often little you can do to stop it but kill.

    A junior version that will devastate all of north America might be a good plan B...

    Riots in HK were sponsored by the US right from the start. UK is not sponsoring it.

    On the surface yes, but in the background the British will be using their links and spies to find out which buttons can be pushed to do the most damage and they will be alerting the Americans as to who to bribe and who can't be bribed...

    And indeed who doesn't need to be bribed...

    But covertly they are supporters of the Chinese.

    I don't see it.

    Under the skin most Brits I know personally think Russia is fundamentally evil and they want to destroy the British Empire... just like Americans probably think Russia is trying to undermine US power and destroy the US empire... the reality is that they are both doing that themselves with all their paranoia BS... for a period there Russia could have been a useful ally that could have opened communications channels to countries that wont communicate with the US or the British for a lot of very good reasons and serious problems could have been solved without dropping bombs and murdering people...

    Instead we have the situation we have...

    All of its own? How so?

    You have identifed some fundamental problems within the current and previous Indian governments that will prevent them doing a decent job for Indians going forward... I would think step one would be to deal with that first or things will never change.

    I suspect the quality of British private schools will plummet, but then you never sent your kids there to learn anything useful... it was who they were rubbing shoulders with that mattered and I suspect in the future it might be Russian and Chinese universities that are offering the quality educations... can India step up and match that to offer a third place to study and get a quality education?

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    Post  Sujoy on 01/06/20, 09:40 pm

    GarryB wrote: but in the background the British will be using their links and spies to find out which buttons can be pushed to do the most damage and they will be alerting the Americans as to who to bribe and who can't be bribed...
    That's correct but not when US wants to harm China, especially Hong Kong. HSBC is a classic example of Anglo-China co-operation. UK's economy survives on money laundering. And China ensures that UK can carry out money laundering across Singapore, HK and Shanghai.

    British intel provides details about India's troop movement to China on a regular basis.

    GarryB wrote:Under the skin most Brits I know personally think Russia is fundamentally evil and they want to destroy the British Empire... just like Americans probably think Russia is trying to undermine US power and destroy the US empire...
    x2. Primarily because of the regular dose of anti Russian propaganda generously served by UK media US media and of course Hollywood. They never mentioned China as an enemy. In fact scenes from movies that portray China as a rival are censored by Hollywood before those movies are released in China.

    Similarly most Brits, Americans consider India to be evil as well because apparently India is responsible for stealing US, UK jobs through outsourcing and is equally responsible for global warming. That aside, we are told majority of Indians living in the US and UK are illegals.

    Remember the popular US sitcom called "The Simpsons" where one of the chief characters a guy name Apu is an illegal immigrant from India and makes a living by cheating White people.

    BBC made a documentary in 2015 titled "India's Daughter" where they explicitly suggested that every Indian male is either a rapist or a wannabe rapist. This documentary became so popular in the West that India is today seen as the world's rape capital.

    GarryB wrote:You have identifed some fundamental problems within the current and previous Indian governments that will prevent them doing a decent job for Indians going forward... I would think step one would be to deal with that first or things will never change.
    I'm not sure how things will change when we have a government which is so corrupt. India was destabilized since independence first by the UK and then by the US. If any honest individual rises to power they will be immediately bumped off by the West and replaced by a low life like Modi or Manhoman Singh.

    GarryB wrote:I suspect the quality of British private schools will plummet, but then you never sent your kids there to learn anything useful... it was who they were rubbing shoulders with that mattered
    I was reading this interview (link below, quote emboldened) where a professor of a major UK university says that post Brexit, UK universities will have to take in a lot of Indian students ( to compensate for the loss of European students) and this development will not go down well with White British students

    Professor Alan Smithers, of Buckingham University, told the newspaper that British students may feel increasingly uncomfortable at universities dominated by Chinese and Indian students.

    https://www.business-standard.com/article/international/brexit-hit-uk-universities-to-recruit-more-indian-chinese-students-119010600427_1.html

    GarryB wrote:I suspect in the future it might be Russian and Chinese universities that are offering the quality educations...  Several students from India, other parts of Asia travel to Russia to study engineering and medicine. China has created some of the top B-School and engineering colleges.

    The advantage that US, UK universities have is that they control the Ranking structure and therefore they create this impression that their universities are the best because they always top the rankings.

    GarryB wrote:can India step up and match that to offer a third place to study and get a quality education?
    Unlikely. Indian government does have a policy to attract students from foreign countries and some students from Africa do enroll in Indian universities.

    There are not too many seats in Tier I universities. Moreover, India suffers from a massive image problem because western media has created this image of India as being a very unsafe place. So not too many people are interested in visiting India. Similarly, if you go through the Global Passport Power Rank you'll notice that western countries do not allow visa free entry for Indians. But citizens from several Middle Eastern countries get visa free entry despite the fact that we are told that these same Middle Eastern countries sponsor Islamic terrorism.

    British propaganda is not obtrusive and people for whom it is meant, hardly realize that a conscious propaganda is going on. Where it is more overt it is conducted through the medium of a 3rd party so that no one can say that Britishers are behind it. As compared with this, propaganda of most other countries is crude and obtrusive and it therefore sometimes defeats its own purpose


    Last edited by Sujoy on 01/06/20, 11:53 pm; edited 2 times in total
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    Post  The-thing-next-door on 01/06/20, 11:16 pm

    GarryB wrote:

    With very few ties left to the US they can do what they like... it is more likely to hurt them and their allies than to hurt Russia...

    And more likely to result in them taking desperate measure such as nuclear attacks, bio attacks and attempting to stage a coup, all result in a Russian nuclear retaliation and then we come back to the point, if they have time to further increase the technology gap sufficiently prepare for it they could win the likely inevitable nuclear war.

    You do realise that Russia and China are not hardcore idealists who believe in that thier enemies sovereignty or cultural values mean anything, Both will show show up at the party and both will have thier cake.

    Neither Russia nor China are selling their cultures to the world... they just want to trade... it is the US that tries to impose the american way on its customers...

    Please read the text before replying. I said both will have thier cake meaning that the two nations will cut up and colonise whatever is left of the west weather it be intact or a highly radioactive new ocean it would be taken either way.

    I do believe it is called imperialism and the only time in Russia when that word was not used in a positive sense was when during the cold war everyone renamed it "liberation".

    The Russian Empire and Soviet Union were very much imperialist and thoes two just so happen to be the basis of the Russian Federation.

    If the euros are left helpless do you seriously expect Russia to just sit there and not colonise a single square meter of land? I think you have your federations mixed up this is not star trek.

    You fail to take into account that the us is delusional even if Russia had a bomb that would literally end the universe they would still try to beat Russia, even if Russia was both omnipotent and omniscient they would still try to somehow win.

    There is a confidence and a calm that comes with the knowledge that you can end everyone if you choose to... once you have that all other issues are small and petty.[/quote]

    Well now that does not prevent you being forced to fight a nuclear war, no mater how insurmountable your defences or powerful your weapons you cannot prevent the enemy from trying.

    Well perhaps if the Russian ABM systems get so good that they can just sit there and do nothing but laugh, perhaps then they would not need to fight the war.

    Delusion and hubris are a deadly combination and there is often little you can do to stop it but kill.

    A junior version that will devastate all of north America might be a good plan B...

    [/quote] What do you mean by this?
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    Post  GarryB on 02/06/20, 11:26 am

    I was reading this interview (link below, quote emboldened) where a professor of a major UK university says that post Brexit, UK universities will have to take in a lot of Indian students ( to compensate for the loss of European students) and this development will not go down well with White British students

    Hahahaha... well those white UK students had better get used to being around Indians and Chinese... in 50 years time they will be cleaning their toilets and taking their kids to school...

    The advantage that US, UK universities have is that they control the Ranking structure and therefore they create this impression that their universities are the best because they always top the rankings.

    Of course, but those foreign universities that are pumping out capable qualified people in their millions will build the rest of the world up while the west wallows in its own misfortune at not being on top any more and no one accepting their dollars because they call them worthless...

    Unlikely. Indian government does have a policy to attract students from foreign countries and some students from Africa do enroll in Indian universities.

    There are not too many seats in Tier I universities. Moreover, India suffers from a massive image problem because western media has created this image of India as being a very unsafe place. So not too many people are interested in visiting India. Similarly, if you go through the Global Passport Power Rank you'll notice that western countries do not allow visa free entry for Indians. But citizens from several Middle Eastern countries get visa free entry despite the fact that we are told that these same Middle Eastern countries sponsor Islamic terrorism.

    But the current situation is being created and maintained by the US and UK based on the current situation.... the UK had EU immigrants for workers and also customers and markets.... when the doors for that slide shut and a tiny glass covered window that restricts things going in either direction comes down they are going to look to the rest of the world. For New Zealand and Australia we have moderate climates and english speaking populations and are relatively safe... but tiny populations... so not really a huge market. South Africa is a bigger population but too dangerous... India has an enormous population and they have history with you... they have spent decades demonising communists so China is not as attractive despite the population simply because China has better production and better cars and better electronics than Britain does, so they would only be selling things like TV programmes like Top Gear and Blackadder.

    The UK is in for a reality check and India... I think... is going to be an enormous part of their plans for recovery and restoration.... America certainly isn't their solution...
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    Post  GarryB on 02/06/20, 11:38 am

    if they have time to further increase the technology gap sufficiently prepare for it they could win the likely inevitable nuclear war.

    Well seeing as how agreements are getting ripped up left right and centre... they could develop neutron bombs... enormous radiation and reduced blast so it kills the people and animals and leaves the buildings intact...

    Planning to win a nuclear war is unreasonable unless you can destroy all the weapons belonging to your enemies before they can use them.

    The Russian Empire and Soviet Union were very much imperialist and thoes two just so happen to be the basis of the Russian Federation.

    Except their have been rather less imperialist than the west has during the cold war and since its end.

    If the euros are left helpless do you seriously expect Russia to just sit there and not colonise a single square meter of land? I think you have your federations mixed up this is not star trek.

    Why do you think Russia needs more land? Why would you think they want European land? It is mostly worthless... the mineral and energy wealth has been extracted and abused already.

    The people are hostile and therefore worthless... there is no gain to invading and occupying Europe or the US. There is a clear benefit in nuking them to oblivion... it means they will no longer be a threat... which is a tangible benefit that would be useful...

    Well now that does not prevent you being forced to fight a nuclear war, no mater how insurmountable your defences or powerful your weapons you cannot prevent the enemy from trying.

    No level of nuclear supremacy will prevent nuclear wars or conflicts of any kind.

    Well perhaps if the Russian ABM systems get so good that they can just sit there and do nothing but laugh, perhaps then they would not need to fight the war.

    But you would never know it would work 100% perfectly and stop everything until it does... which is too late really.

    What do you mean by this?

    I mean develop a planet destroying weapon to kill everything on the planet and then scale down a smaller version that will destroy the entire land surface between the Pacific Ocean and the Atlantic Ocean in the northern hemisphere... if the west creates problems then use the smaller weapon...
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    Post  The-thing-next-door on 02/06/20, 05:03 pm

    GarryB wrote:
    if they have time to further increase the technology gap sufficiently prepare for it they could win the likely inevitable nuclear war.

    Well seeing as how agreements are getting ripped up left right and centre... they could develop neutron bombs... enormous radiation and reduced blast so it kills the people and animals and leaves the buildings intact...


    Neutron bombs are a bad idea, if they do not wipe out the enemy then the enemy can easily recover.


    Why do you think Russia needs more land? Why would you think they want European land? It is mostly worthless... the mineral and energy wealth has been extracted and abused already.
    The people are hostile and therefore worthless... there is no gain to invading and occupying Europe or the US. There is a clear benefit in nuking them to oblivion... it means they will no longer be a threat... which is a tangible benefit that would be useful...

    Prestige perhaps?

    Russia wants the land, not its population. Exactly how they would handle the squatters would vary wildly but sadly Russians are generally far too kind.

    But you would never know it would work 100% perfectly and stop everything until it does... which is too late really.
    [/quote]

    And that wasy my point, their leadership would need to be some hardcore Idealistic morons in order to avoid the war.
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    Post  Sujoy on 03/06/20, 10:26 pm

    GarryB wrote:Of course, but those foreign universities that are pumping out capable qualified people in their millions will build the rest of the world up while the west wallows in its own misfortune at not being on top any more and no one accepting their dollars because they call them worthless...
    Chinese B-School and engineering colleges are world class.

    I understand that colleges, universities in Australia and New Zealand especially those that are into engineering and medicine are quite good. I see several students from India, China, Middle East enroll in these universities.

    GarryB wrote:The UK is in for a reality check and India... I think... is going to be an enormous part of their plans for recovery and restoration.... America certainly isn't their solution...
    I'm not really sure if America or their fellow Anglo-Saxon states are not their solution. From what I have observed in the UK they consider themselves far more close to US, Canada, Australia and NZ than they do even to Europe.

    Makes sense, common culture, language has acted as a powerful bond for decades. This bond culminates in programs like 5 Eyes.

    They also have far more faith in this alliance to deal with states that occasionally refuses to accept their diktat. For instance in 1985 they had to settle scores with India (because Indian was supporting the USSR invasion of Afghanistan) so they got Canadian Intelligence to plant a bomb on an Air India flight between Montreal and New Delhi. The bomb blew up mid air over the Atlantic killing all the 329 Indian origin passengers on board.
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    Post  Tsavo Lion on 04/06/20, 08:51 am

    ..Indian was supporting the USSR invasion of Afghanistan..
    Really? I don't recall them acting in support of, or even tacitly approving of it. I got the impression they remained neutral.
    Please post ur sources showing otherwise.
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    Post  GarryB on 04/06/20, 10:27 am

    Neutron bombs are a bad idea, if they do not wipe out the enemy then the enemy can easily recover.

    Neutron bombs are the most efficient way of wiping out the enemy population completely... even sitting inside an armoured vehicle wont protect you from the intense radiation that will kill you.

    The only problem is that you create an enemy that for a week or two know they are going to die anyway and might decide to go down guns blazing rather than collapse and disintegrate through radiation sickness.

    Prestige perhaps?

    What?

    Europe and the west are a threat... nothing more.

    Russia wants the land, not its population. Exactly how they would handle the squatters would vary wildly but sadly Russians are generally far too kind.

    Russia already has plenty of land... most of Europe is going to be irradiated in any future conflict so there is no point in thinking about occupation.

    And that wasy my point, their leadership would need to be some hardcore Idealistic morons in order to avoid the war.

    You mean like the current wests leadership that thinks its revolutions are for the greater good... and that people getting murdered for their resources is fine as long as the resources and money go into the correct bank accounts.

    Makes sense, common culture, language has acted as a powerful bond for decades. This bond culminates in programs like 5 Eyes.

    Five Eyes is about location location location... Australia allows them to see into Asia, New Zealand the Pacific region and part of Asia, Canada looks north over the arctic and the UK into europe... and the 800 US bases check everywhere else...

    We pass on all the information we collect to the US for processing but we didn't get any use from it really... if they didn't warn us when our volcanoes are going to blow or when Aussie immigrants are going to shoot and injure and kill hundreds of people then what real use is it for us?

    I understand it is part of their control system for their secret police run empire, but really... what do we get out of it?

    They also have far more faith in this alliance to deal with states that occasionally refuses to accept their diktat. For instance in 1985 they had to settle scores with India (because Indian was supporting the USSR invasion of Afghanistan) so they got Canadian Intelligence to plant a bomb on an Air India flight between Montreal and New Delhi. The bomb blew up mid air over the Atlantic killing all the 329 Indian origin passengers on board.

    Well if that is true... and I don't doubt your word, India should be mentioning that incident any time the US or Canada criticise or try to control India... just like Australian and US visitors to China want to talk about Chinese human rights records in Tibet or whatever... India should ask to talk about the Guantanimo concentration camp, and Australias history with its indigenous population and indeed its treatment of immigrants... but sadly they are too polite to play the games the west plays.
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    Post  Sujoy on 04/06/20, 02:52 pm

    Tsavo Lion wrote:Really? I don't recall them acting in support of, or even tacitly approving of it. I got the impression they remained neutral.
    Please post ur sources showing otherwise.
    Here are the links that you asked for

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/politics/1980/01/12/india-supports-soviets-afghan-position-in-un-debate/17dd1eb5-93f9-44bf-9f95-ecda7285843c/

    India's former PM I.K.Gujral suggesting India supported the USSR's invasion of Afghanistan

    http://www.associationdiplomats.org/Publications/ifaj/Vol1/1.1/1.1%20-%20Oral%20History%20-%20India%E2%80%99s%20Response%20to%20the%20Soviet%20Military%20Intervention%20in%20Afghanistan%20-%20IKGujral.pdf

    Actually, here in India it's well known that we supported USSR's invasion of Afghanistan


    GarryB wrote:Well if that is true... and I don't doubt your word, India should be mentioning that incident any time the US or Canada criticise or try to control India
    Here are a couple of links Garry. Canadian MP had said on record that Canadian Intel is responsible for the Air Kanishka bombing in 1985. She was then forced to retract this statement by the Canadian government.

    https://www.hindustantimes.com/chandigarh/canadian-mp-makes-u-turn-on-kanishka-bombing-remarks/story-cHmCvkHnyS8kVaNmwYMSVI.html


    Hillary Clinton (via CIA) supporting Sikh extremism in India, because US lost the MMRCA contract

    http://www.sunday-guardian.com/news/obama-quietly-reverses-hillarys-get-modi-policy#.U4lBkLc4vyo.twitter

    The 26th Nov,2008 terrorist attack in Mumbai that killed 150 people was carried out by the CIA through one of their agent named David Coleman Headley.


    GarryB wrote:India should ask to talk about the Guantanimo concentration camp, and Australias history with its indigenous population and indeed its treatment of immigrants... but sadly they are too polite to play the games the west plays.
    Not polite Garry, totally, completely, holistically CORRUPT. These Indian politicians, bureaucrats send their kids, wards to study in the West. They run several businesses in the West. So obviously if they rub Western leaders the wrong way by asking them those difficult questions that you raised they safety of their kids or their businesses can no longer be guaranteed.
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    Post  The-thing-next-door on 04/06/20, 03:02 pm

    GarryB wrote:

    Neutron bombs are the most efficient way of wiping out the enemy population completely... even sitting inside an armoured vehicle wont protect you from the intense radiation that will kill you.

    The only problem is that you create an enemy that for a week or two know they are going to die anyway and might decide to go down guns blazing rather than collapse and disintegrate through radiation sickness.



    Now I do not know much about neutron bombs, perhaps the radiation pulse is far greater. However even if that is the case it would still be blocked by hills,mountains and the atmosphere, meaning that anyone not in a major city survives unscathed and can then just move in to the perfectly intact cities replace the dead.

    If neutron bombs do indeed offer an improved radius of lethality then the correct use of them would be to load your missiles with both neutron and high yield thermonuclear warheads designed to leave behind as much lingering radiation as possible in order to stifle the enemy's attempts at recovery.

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    Post  GarryB on 05/06/20, 09:05 am

    Here are a couple of links Garry.

    I trust your word, but would say I have not heard of either incident from my western media (not that I listen to them much).

    What needs to be done is to go to western forums and make those people aware if these incidents... they wont know about them... or the ones that do wont want any of the others to know about them because it breaks their good guy illusion... posting comments on CNN and ABC websites and BBC websites gets the word out... you might get away with it getting it past censorship if you play them against each other... the BBC for American transgressions and the American networks for Canadian terrorist support actions perhaps.

    The reason they keep this stuff hushed up is because most westerners wouldn't put up with this shit if they knew about it because most don't like their politicians anyway... or the other politicians they don't like so good ammo against them during election time is always welcome.

    Not polite Garry, totally, completely, holistically CORRUPT. These Indian politicians, bureaucrats send their kids, wards to study in the West. They run several businesses in the West. So obviously if they rub Western leaders the wrong way by asking them those difficult questions that you raised they safety of their kids or their businesses can no longer be guaranteed.

    Business is corruption... good business is about taking advantages of opportunities and positions of power and getting yourself the best possible result...

    When they vote based on their conscience or morality against the wishes of the west and their opportunities are taken away or their families are threatened then that tells you more about the west than it does about those that take up their offers...

    Now I do not know much about neutron bombs, perhaps the radiation pulse is far greater. However even if that is the case it would still be blocked by hills,mountains and the atmosphere, meaning that anyone not in a major city survives unscathed and can then just move in to the perfectly intact cities replace the dead.

    With a neutron bomb the radiation is increased, but not as much as you might think... the explosion is dramatically reduced however.

    I remember an infographic from the 1980s where they showed the radiation levels from different tactical nuclear devices and they had vehicles on the ground in the form of a big long column of tanks and APCs stretching several kms long. In the first image a 1KT bomb goes off and you see the radiation damage probably does as much killing as the blast. In the next image a 10KT bomb has a bigger blast radius but the radiation is only slightly bigger. In the next image a 100KT bomb has only a slightly bigger radiation radius than the much smaller bomb... it is not ten times bigger as you might think, but then the explosive blast might be ten times bigger but it doesn't have a blast radius ten times bigger. A 5KT neutron bomb had the radiation radius of a 1MT bomb and less explosion and blast than the 1KT bomb and to increase its effect it can be set off up in the air where the blast probably wont even break windows but the radiation kills over a greater area again....

    That is why they were banned because it was believed by both sides that they would be too tempting to use to exterminate the other side.
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    Post  The-thing-next-door on 05/06/20, 03:58 pm

    GarryB wrote:
    Here are a couple of links Garry.

    With a neutron bomb the radiation is increased, but not as much as you might think... the explosion is dramatically reduced however.

    I remember an infographic from the 1980s where they showed the radiation levels from different tactical nuclear devices and they had vehicles on the ground in the form of a big long column of tanks and APCs stretching several kms long. In the first image a 1KT bomb goes off and you see the radiation damage probably does as much killing as the blast. In the next image a 10KT bomb has a bigger blast radius but the radiation is only slightly bigger. In the next image a 100KT bomb has only a slightly bigger radiation radius than the much smaller bomb... it is not ten times bigger as you might think, but then the explosive blast might be ten times bigger but it doesn't have a blast radius ten times bigger.  A 5KT neutron bomb had the radiation radius of a 1MT bomb and less explosion and blast than the 1KT bomb and to increase its effect it can be set off up in the air where the blast probably wont even break windows but the radiation kills over a greater area again....

    That is why they were banned because it was believed by both sides that they would be too tempting to use to exterminate the other side.

    My point was that because they do not render the enemy's cities uninhabitable they are less useful in an all out nuclear war.

    Though they would be very useful in eastern europe, just fire them from smerch batteries at ukraine and the baltics so that you have a very easy time re-assimilating you lost land.
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    Post  GarryB on 06/06/20, 08:46 am


    My point was that because they do not render the enemy's cities uninhabitable they are less useful in an all out nuclear war.

    Actually they would be the best way to wipe out a population... very few bunkers built for WWIII are lined with inches of lead shielding to protect the occupants so where a nuclear weapon would need to be enormous to kill everyone in a city and hardened shelters... neutron bombs could do it much more efficiently and it is not the same as an EMP pulse so you could fly a formation of cruise missiles over a city and have then explode in a pattern to get the best coverage.

    Deep down in a bunker you wont even know you are dead, though any radiation meters will scream.


    Though they would be very useful in eastern europe, just fire them from smerch batteries at ukraine and the baltics so that you have a very easy time re-assimilating you lost land.

    Naaaa... just wall it up and let nature take over... every 50 years or so launch another volley to clear out any potential threats...
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    Post  The-thing-next-door on 06/06/20, 01:20 pm

    GarryB wrote:

    My point was that because they do not render the enemy's cities uninhabitable they are less useful in an all out nuclear war.

    Actually they would be the best way to wipe out a population... very few bunkers built for WWIII are lined with inches of lead shielding to protect the occupants so where a nuclear weapon would need to be enormous to kill everyone in a city and hardened shelters... neutron bombs could do it much more efficiently and it is not the same as an EMP pulse so you could fly a formation of cruise missiles over a city and have then explode in a pattern to get the best coverage.

    Deep down in a bunker you wont even know you are dead, though any radiation meters will scream.

    My point was that you want to contaminate the enemy's cities and factories so that they cannot recover.

    Cities are not the only populated areas on the planet and even with cities many people live far enough away from the centre that not even an RDS-220 dropped on their city would kill them.

    In a nuclear war you want to ensure the annihilation of the enemy, to do this you want to make sure that they cannot recover and as such contaminating all of thier industry and infrastructure goes al ong way.
    After a while you would then send you army to make sure that there are no survivors.
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    Post  marcellogo on 12/06/20, 04:21 am

    GarryB wrote:

    Americans love to sell ideas, but don't always bother to make reality match the promise so when it comes up short they look silly.

    If they spent more time fixing problems and less time making promises their products might be better.


    Their industrial complex sell wrong ideas in fancy packages to Top brass so both earn from it and Congress further ruin things giving a share of the pie to each state, so to further make it into a mess.  
    Repeat, it was having not any sort of back up plan that lead them to such "desperate and despairing" solutions involving F-15 and C-130.
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    Post  GarryB on 12/06/20, 02:16 pm

    Sadly the real cause of their fall was greed rather than ignorance, they have as many smart engineers as anyone else has, but as is often the case when you are selling an idea and don't have to prove anything it comes down to lying.

    There is a card game called bullshit. It is a bit like Bridge where you bid for the game and then try to match what you bid... the problem is that in defence contracts there are no consequences when you lie with your bid... it is like professional sports... when someone is caught taking drugs to cheat they claim it is because everyone else is using them and they wanted to win. If you don't catch the cheats effectively honest rule abiding players can no longer compete and either start cheating or accept that they will lose every time.

    With defence contracts if you don't make fantastic promises you wont get the contract, and if you don't get contracts you go out of business, so you start to make claims and deal with those problems when you have the contract... maybe try to hire a company that was competing with you for the contract that also promised the same things... except they might not be able to do it either...

    You don't get sales for fair prices the customer needs to think they are getting a good deal...

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