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    When will surface ships and submarines merge?

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    mnztr

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    Post  mnztr on Mon May 18, 2020 12:48 am

    Seems to me it would make sense to have frigate sized ships that can also submerge to say 100 ft or so....and operate much better in the surface then current subs..has anyone tried this concept? The US Zumwalt class looks almost like to could submerge.. maybe it can!!!
    Isos
    Isos

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    Post  Isos on Mon May 18, 2020 1:02 am

    Cost of such ship will explode the budget of any military.

    What can be good is submerge partially the ship when its under attack by missiles to reduce its radar signature. But even that would be expensive.

    Maybe small missile boats could do that but certainly not a destroyer.
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB on Mon May 18, 2020 11:33 am

    There are usually two or three main hatches to get in or out of a submarine... on a ship... especially one carrying a helicopter there are lots of hatches and doors and the door on the Hangar is huge. Unless you want to flood the hangar with the helicopter every time you submerge the weight of water pushing on the hangar door would be immense... you would need it to be much stronger than they normally are.

    Equally when submerged you lose all radar capacity and your guns and missiles wont work either... effectively despite being protected by metres of water you become a sitting duck that is totally ineffectual.

    In the 1980s there was a video game called Interceptor by Bob Dinnerman that is set in off the coast of San Fransisco or something and involved a Soviet submersable aircraft carrier.... it was just a large sub with the sail to one side up one end with MiG-29s able to take off and land on its deck... at the time I thought that was a brilliant idea, but in actual fact subs are not safe either and an aircraft carrier underwater is just a sub, and when it is surfaced it is also a rather limited aircraft carrier too being small and poorly equipped in terms of air defence equipment and weapons... its only defence was to submerge.

    I would say interesting idea, and old subs often had deck guns to finish off ships they damaged without needing to waste more torpedoes, but AFAIK there were never any submersable vessels designed to operate as surface ships.

    Now this might come as a surprise but there was a Soviet design for an airplane that was fully amphibious and could also submerge... I can't remember what it was called or who designed it... there was a video of weird Soviet aircraft on Youtube...
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    mnztr

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    Post  mnztr on Mon May 18, 2020 3:14 pm

    There is actually a wiki on it:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semi-submersible_naval_vessel

    I don't think such such a vessel would be expected to perform exactly like a submarine to be useful...ie ability to submerge to 600+ for example. It could be limited to 20-50M. Missiles could launch like submarine VLS. The Helo could be launched before submerging or it could be limited to drone aviation. They could equip it with floating helos as well. If needed the HELO could launch, fly 200KM away and wait for recall as it sits in the water. Lots of options. There are rumors (somewhat dated) that China is building such a thing.

    https://www.popsci.com/futuristic-chinese-warship-concept-is-making-waves/
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB on Tue May 19, 2020 11:11 am

    Nothing actually ever making service...

    And most importantly, note on that Wiki page, the Soviets were mainly focussed on small torpedo attack boats... the sort of small fast boat that is supposed to rush up to major enemy ships and try to sink them using torpedoes... submersing would be to protect them from the inevidable gun fire that would be directed at them as soon as they were spotted.

    The aircraft I mentioned was the same... a torpedo attack vessel... it is unclear whether it was to attack while under water or on the surface... I suspected when the target was detected the aircraft would fly to a location ahead of the target... land on the water and then submerge and wait... it had a periscope... when the targets approached it is not clear whether the torpedoes were launched while submerged or if when surfaced... I assume it then turned away from the target and applied full power and took off to avoid return fire. It was seriously slow underwater so submerging and trying to escape that way really was not an option.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flying_submarine

    In fact buy the model...

    https://fantastic-plastic.com/Ushakov_LPL_Flying_Sub_Page.htm

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