Russia Defence Forum

Would you like to react to this message? Create an account in a few clicks or log in to continue.

Military Forum for Russian and Global Defence Issues


    Strategic FOB System (Orbital Nuclear Weapons).

    Neutron
    Neutron

    Posts : 2
    Points : 6
    Join date : 2016-04-18
    Location : Defense.h

    Strategic FOB System (Orbital Nuclear Weapons). Empty Strategic FOB System (Orbital Nuclear Weapons).

    Post  Neutron on Tue Apr 26, 2016 8:43 pm

    Strategic FOB System (Orbital Nuclear Weapons). FOBS

    The Fractional Orbital Bombardment System (FOBS) was a Soviet weapons program that started in the 1960s whose goal was to develop a nuclear capable ICBM vehicle which would, once launched, inject into LEO (Low Earth Orbit) upon which the payload could de-orbit and strike a ground target. Basically it turns out that launching a nuclear weapon from space is highly effective and that many long-range defenses are thus automatically bypassed  Cool .

    The Soviet-era FOBS program caused so much panic and concern in the west at the time that the Outer Space Treaty of 1967 was drafted, which led to the FOBS program being decommissioned, the treaty has banned the use of nuclear capable weapons in earth orbit since then. However it can be argued that many of the parties that originally signed this treaty could have already secretly developed similar programs and could thus potentially use these arcane programs against Russia in the future. Not even mentioning all the numerous, on-going violations of many non-proliferation treaties by other countries. Russia in my opinion, shouldn't be reducing its nuclear stockpile or nuclear capabilities, it should be increasing them for the sake of deterrence or even MAD. I therefore propose that the Russian strategic nuclear forces reconsider a nuclear deterrence system similar to FOBS for deployment.

    However if a program such as FOBS is to be reconsidered drastic design reconsideration of the payload launcher vehicle must be taken into account. Firstly the payload launcher vehicle should be permanently stationed in orbit until a launch is initiated instead of launching the vehicle into orbit shortly before an attack and waiting for the payload to de-orbit, this means that it would take substantially longer for any early warning satellite satellite system to detect an imminent nuclear strike due to the suppression of ground based thermal or IR signatures. The launcher vehicle should then ideally inject into LEO and hold when the weapon is initiated.

    Secondly we must take into account the realities of ABM systems. Once a warhead is detected and a ABM originating projectile is launched, first strike uncertainty is increased. ABM systems, however, rely on sensor inputs to guide ABM originating projectiles to their target, EM/IR sensor/transducer resolution, however, can theoretically be reduced by increasing radiation/EM flux density uniformly within a given volume in space, making distinguishing a target much more difficult if not impossible. What this means, assuming a large enough yield, is if a launch is initiated, one of the many reentry vehicles would need to be detonated sequentially after launch, to provide this increase in energy density and subsequently, decrease in sensor resolution along the target pathway. This is repeated until the main attack vehicles reach a suitable distance above earth's atmosphere. Thus the travel trajectory of the main attack vehicle's should then ideally transverse these spherical blast volumes, making target identification to the ABM system practically impossible, in theory.

    Once the final RV's are close to reentry they separate drastically, by this time no ABM system would be able to cope with the speed and number of re-entry vehicles and even in the best case scenario, assuming 100% interception, the blast radius and fallout would be so severe that surviving such an attack would be impossible. Another possibility would be the addition of ozone-degenerating compounds which would destroy part of the ozone layer covering the target's land mass to increase radiation penetration. This is very hypothesized but I'm sure something similar can be done.

    Having a good deterrence strategy is one of the best defenses a country can possess.
    Hole
    Hole

    Posts : 3260
    Points : 3260
    Join date : 2018-03-24
    Age : 44
    Location : Merkelland

    Strategic FOB System (Orbital Nuclear Weapons). Empty Re: Strategic FOB System (Orbital Nuclear Weapons).

    Post  Hole on Fri Oct 12, 2018 10:42 am

    4 possible applications for this rocket/missile:

    1. bring a small satellite into space
    2. ASAT (kill vehicle)
    3. ABM (same or another version of the kill vehicle)
    4. deliver a small nucelar device.

    To point 4 again: this would be a small FOBS so the MiG-31 would become a strategic bomber.
    GarryB
    GarryB

    Posts : 26274
    Points : 26820
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Strategic FOB System (Orbital Nuclear Weapons). Empty Re: Strategic FOB System (Orbital Nuclear Weapons).

    Post  GarryB on Sat Oct 13, 2018 4:57 am

    Interesting... though the deorbit rocket motor would take up weight... you could get away with 2-3 separate warheads each with a deorbit motor on it... it probably would not be terribly accurate, but they could arrive from any direction at any time... which would make them rather good for use against an enormous target like the US or EU...

    There is no need for them to use a higher orbit so 300km would be fine... and would mean less energy would be needed for the de orbit burn.
    magnumcromagnon
    magnumcromagnon

    Posts : 6208
    Points : 6361
    Join date : 2013-12-05
    Location : Pindos ave., Pindosville, Pindosylvania, Pindostan

    Strategic FOB System (Orbital Nuclear Weapons). Empty Re: Strategic FOB System (Orbital Nuclear Weapons).

    Post  magnumcromagnon on Sun Oct 14, 2018 5:50 am

    GarryB wrote:1, yes, 2, yes, 3 not so much as it would probably be more useful to have it doing other things while an enemy is attacking... like looking for low flying strike aircraft trying to penetrate your airspace... and 4, interesting idea but there are a lot of simpler and cheaper and quicker ways of doing that.

    Why do you say that? There really isn't 'a lot' simpler, cheaper, quicker ways. Think about this. Through SLBM's, you would need new boomers, and just like ICBM's they're controlled by nuclear treaties, so through that method they're definitely not cheaper financially or politically. Remember all the discussions this forum has had over the years over the use of cruise missiles in relation to MAD? Everyone basically agreed that there more of a "after the fact" weapon, as opposed to the first strike weapons such as ICBM's/SLBM's. I think something like this can answer for that. I could definitely see this being launched within 10-15 minutes of ICBM's/SLBM's, and striking within 20-30 minutes of them, being capable to launch a strategic cruise missiles payload with the speed and range of a FOB's like orbital strike. This definitely would be cheaper financially and politically, as they could just run with the narrative that it's simply a "ASAT weapon" and nothing more, until the nuclear clock strikes 12 midnight. To add to the fact that they are "cheaper politically", is that the U.S. announced both the 'Point Global Strike', as well as the 'Space Force' combined with the fact that the US side doesn't have an analogue, which would mean that their would be very little leverage in a new START treaty to reduce the numbers of them on the Russian side. It's no mere secret with the announcements of PGS and the Space Force, that this is a calculated response shown of the Federations' part.
    GarryB
    GarryB

    Posts : 26274
    Points : 26820
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Strategic FOB System (Orbital Nuclear Weapons). Empty Re: Strategic FOB System (Orbital Nuclear Weapons).

    Post  GarryB on Mon Oct 15, 2018 4:27 am

    I think something like this can answer for that. I could definitely see this being launched within 10-15 minutes of ICBM's/SLBM's, and striking within 20-30 minutes of them, being capable to launch a strategic cruise missiles payload with the speed and range of a FOB's like orbital strike.

    The reason I say that is because 10-15 minutes after ICBMs are launched the Tu-95s and Tu-160s will be airborne on their way to launch nuclear armed cruise missiles, but most of the MiG-31s will be armed with R-37M missiles and will be looking for missile armed US strategic aircraft coming over the north pole... some will have Kinzhal looking for US carriers or AEGIS destroyers, but how many will be available to use FOBS weapons?

    It would make more sense for them to be attacking US satellites as they come over so that by the time US missiles (cruise and ballistic) arrive they will not get any support from their now depleted satellite network over Russia...

    In a couple of days time in the far east in some backwater airfield they can launch MiG-31s over and over to launch FOBs against any point on the planet and just keep hammering them while they still have fuel and weapons... but before then there are other things they need to do...
    Tsavo Lion
    Tsavo Lion

    Posts : 4692
    Points : 4688
    Join date : 2016-08-15
    Location : AZ, USA

    Strategic FOB System (Orbital Nuclear Weapons). Empty Re: Strategic FOB System (Orbital Nuclear Weapons).

    Post  Tsavo Lion on Sun Oct 21, 2018 9:53 pm


    What is FOB?
    GarryB
    GarryB

    Posts : 26274
    Points : 26820
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Strategic FOB System (Orbital Nuclear Weapons). Empty Re: Strategic FOB System (Orbital Nuclear Weapons).

    Post  GarryB on Mon Oct 22, 2018 3:32 am

    FOB is fractional orbital bomb/er.

    In other words instead of lofting a missile up into the air on a ballistic path like a shell from a gun, you actually launch the projectile into orbit... you could make it go around several times, or just a portion of a full orbit and then fire retro rockets to slow down below orbital speed to fall down over the target area.

    The point is that from Russia most ICBMs will go over the north pole and over canada and then land on the US... with FOB, you can launch them over the south pole so they go south over Asia, and Australia and over Antarctica and then up over south and central america and attack the US from the south... where it is not looking...
    Tsavo Lion
    Tsavo Lion

    Posts : 4692
    Points : 4688
    Join date : 2016-08-15
    Location : AZ, USA

    Strategic FOB System (Orbital Nuclear Weapons). Empty Re: Strategic FOB System (Orbital Nuclear Weapons).

    Post  Tsavo Lion on Mon Oct 22, 2018 5:09 am

    Well, the US has Amundsen Scott on the South Pole & McMurdo Stations on the coast in the Antarctic; EW radars can be installed there, where the C-5 had landed; C-17s did it in winter.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ice_Runway
    https://www.af.mil/News/Article-Display/Article/122465/c-17-crew-lands-after-dark-landing-in-antarctica/  
    https://www.cnn.com/2011/10/17/world/south-pole-rescue/index.html

    They could also put BMD sites on the Diego Garcia/Falklands/Easter/Clipperton Islands, in Australia, Puerto Rico, Florida, Texas, N. Carolina, & S. California. The discussion on putting more BMD sites on the E. Coast already started in the US a few years ago. CGs with ABM interceptors can also patrol the Southern maritime approaches.


    Last edited by Tsavo Lion on Wed Oct 24, 2018 1:12 am; edited 1 time in total
    GarryB
    GarryB

    Posts : 26274
    Points : 26820
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Strategic FOB System (Orbital Nuclear Weapons). Empty Re: Strategic FOB System (Orbital Nuclear Weapons).

    Post  GarryB on Mon Oct 22, 2018 5:30 am

    And think about the cost of basically having to change from just looking north to looking in every direction in case of attack...

    The US will have to spend billions on this... and to be honest it wont make them any safer... some will just know it is all over a bit earlier that is all.

    Well, the US has Amundsen Scott on the South Pole & McMurdo Stations on the coast in the Antarctic; EW radars can be installed there, where the C-17s had landed in winter.

    I know.... they fly there from a US base in Christchurch...

    More ABM sites means more Russian missiles...

    From a Russian perspective making US CGs with ABM interceptors operate in the southern oceans makes it well worth the minimal cost of making FOB capable systems...

    They don't need to be huge... nuke warheads are neither big nor heavy, so getting them into orbit is no huge problem.

    The Soviets and Russians already look 360 degrees for threats so the US cannot really return the favour... they have been doing it for years...
    Tsavo Lion
    Tsavo Lion

    Posts : 4692
    Points : 4688
    Join date : 2016-08-15
    Location : AZ, USA

    Strategic FOB System (Orbital Nuclear Weapons). Empty Re: Strategic FOB System (Orbital Nuclear Weapons).

    Post  Tsavo Lion on Mon Oct 22, 2018 6:30 am

    ..US CGs with ABM interceptors operate in the southern oceans
    No, they can just patrol the Caribbean (anti-drug ops r done there anyway) & off W. Mexican/C. American coast. NORAD's EW radars were in Norway, & Greenland & Canada for decades. The Sea-based X-band Radar & missile tracking ships can be moved South as well:
    In February 2012, the Missile Defense Agency requested only $9.7 million per year for Fiscal Years 2013 through 2017, down from $176.8 million in fiscal 2012. This reduced amount would be used to maintain SBX in a “limited test support” role, "while also retaining the ability to recall it to an active, operational status if and when it is needed.” ..The radar was able to perform its mission of tracking a target operating at ICBM speeds during the interception of a mock ICBM by a Ground-Based Midcourse Defense interceptor on 30 May 2017.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sea-based_X-band_Radar#Operational_history

    Inside of its massive white inflatable dome is a four-million-pound X band phased array radar system. This massive piece of radiating technology was designed to provide incredibly detailed tracking of enemy intercontinental ballistic missiles and mid-course updates for ground-based interceptor systems.
    The radar is so powerful and features such a high degree of resolution, that it can differentiate between decoys and warheads during a missile's mid-course separation phase of flight better than any other radar system out there. The information from it is data-linked to command and control stations where a decision will be made to commit interceptors to the missile if its trajectory is deemed a threat. It can then provide highly precise telemetry of those threatening objects to missile interceptors as they ascend toward their target. The system also provides kill assessment data after an intercept has occurred. ..
    The ability to quickly re-position the SBX-1 is key as it can position itself along the most probable flight paths of hostile missiles. The SBX-1 radar is so powerful that Lt. Gen Obering, at the time the director of the Missile Defense Agency, said that the system is able to track an object the size of a baseball over San Francisco from Chesapeake Bay in Virginia, which is approximately 2,900 miles from radar to target!
    https://foxtrotalpha.jalopnik.com/these-are-the-little-known-ships-that-make-missile-defe-1594677657
    Just increasing taxes on US oil companies, cutting foreign aid &/ some weapons programs, + less spending on S. Korea defense will raise those extra $Bs. Canada could also contribute more for the NORAD, freeing some $ for sites facing South.
    Hole
    Hole

    Posts : 3260
    Points : 3260
    Join date : 2018-03-24
    Age : 44
    Location : Merkelland

    Strategic FOB System (Orbital Nuclear Weapons). Empty Re: Strategic FOB System (Orbital Nuclear Weapons).

    Post  Hole on Mon Oct 22, 2018 11:30 am

    No weapons allowed in Antarctica.
    Tsavo Lion
    Tsavo Lion

    Posts : 4692
    Points : 4688
    Join date : 2016-08-15
    Location : AZ, USA

    Strategic FOB System (Orbital Nuclear Weapons). Empty Re: Strategic FOB System (Orbital Nuclear Weapons).

    Post  Tsavo Lion on Mon Oct 22, 2018 5:17 pm

    Radars r not weapons, & the US can ditch this treaty on "no mil. deployments in the Antarctic continent" as on BMD & INF treaties once/if it suits them.
    https://apnews.com/99ab3fb09bbe41a497db0162a3c213be
    GarryB
    GarryB

    Posts : 26274
    Points : 26820
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Strategic FOB System (Orbital Nuclear Weapons). Empty Re: Strategic FOB System (Orbital Nuclear Weapons).

    Post  GarryB on Tue Oct 23, 2018 2:18 am

    If America starts using Antarctica for military purposes you will have to shift your base from Christchurch to Australia... which will add a couple of thousand kms to the trip in each direction... not the end of the world but also not very convenient.

    And of course once you start basing weapons there there will be nothing to stop the Russians and Chinese from doing the same...

    The SBX-1 radar is so powerful that Lt. Gen Obering, at the time the director of the Missile Defense Agency, said that the system is able to track an object the size of a baseball over San Francisco from Chesapeake Bay in Virginia, which is approximately 2,900 miles from radar to target!

    Yeah... during the 1990s the Russians let slip that their space tracking capacity includes the ability to track targets as small as paint chips in orbit...

    Just increasing taxes on US oil companies, cutting foreign aid &/ some weapons programs, + less spending on S. Korea defense will raise those extra $Bs. Canada could also contribute more for the NORAD, freeing some $ for sites facing South.

    US foreign Aid is spent on US companies and products, so cutting foreign aid is cutting trade with countries that would otherwise have no money to spend on your products.

    Odds are military spending will actually vastly increase... not decrease... and why should Canada contribute anything to NORAD... its purpose is to defend the US, not Canada.

    Just like US troops in South Korea is all about US troops near China and nothing really to do with protecting SK.

    Sounds like a lot of problems... but as we have seen the MiG has been shown carrying a rocket to launch items into orbit, and their new heavy ICBM also has the capacity to travel to targets via the South Pole as stated by Russian officials....
    Tsavo Lion
    Tsavo Lion

    Posts : 4692
    Points : 4688
    Join date : 2016-08-15
    Location : AZ, USA

    Strategic FOB System (Orbital Nuclear Weapons). Empty Re: Strategic FOB System (Orbital Nuclear Weapons).

    Post  Tsavo Lion on Tue Oct 23, 2018 3:46 am

    Between the 50-190 meridians leading to CONUS from Siberia, EW radars on Diego Garcia, Kerguelen, in Chile &/ on the Falklands + special optics in Antarctica may be enough. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kerguelen_Islands

    Interceptor sites on Diego Garcia, Kerguelen, Australia & her islands & ships in the Indian Ocean may also be used for BMD & take out at least some BMs before the rest cross the S. Pole. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heard_Island_and_McDonald_Islands

    By the time they reach the Equator again, the NORAD will have less to deal with.
    Military and security is only 33% of the overall US foreign aid with total ~$49B in 2016, or $16.17B: https://www.cfr.org/backgrounder/how-does-us-spend-its-foreign-aid  
    So, most of the remaining $32.83B could be used elsewhere if the Trump Admin. & US Senate cut it.
    Canada will also be affected by the radiation & economic fallout if the US is nuked, so it's in their interest to contribute more to the NORAD.


    Last edited by Tsavo Lion on Wed Oct 24, 2018 1:06 am; edited 1 time in total
    miketheterrible
    miketheterrible

    Posts : 4848
    Points : 4826
    Join date : 2016-11-06

    Strategic FOB System (Orbital Nuclear Weapons). Empty Re: Strategic FOB System (Orbital Nuclear Weapons).

    Post  miketheterrible on Tue Oct 23, 2018 4:46 am

    No system US has is capable of shooting down anything more than a glorified scud b.

    So don't get your hopes up.
    Tsavo Lion
    Tsavo Lion

    Posts : 4692
    Points : 4688
    Join date : 2016-08-15
    Location : AZ, USA

    Strategic FOB System (Orbital Nuclear Weapons). Empty Re: Strategic FOB System (Orbital Nuclear Weapons).

    Post  Tsavo Lion on Tue Oct 23, 2018 6:13 am

    Maybe so, but future space based weapons will have even a better chance dealing with B/HSMs!
    An orbiting satellite was destroyed & 37 successful BM intercepts to date were done from ships: http://www.cnn.com/2008/TECH/space/02/20/satellite.shootdown/
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aegis_Ballistic_Missile_Defense_System#Flight_tests_to_date https://regnum.ru/news/polit/2508588.html
    There’s a very fine line already between ballistic missile interceptors and anti-satellite weapons, both of which are intended to hit relatively small objects at very high altitudes. http://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/18283/lets-talk-about-that-mysterious-chinese-anti-ballistic-missile-launch


    Last edited by Tsavo Lion on Fri Oct 26, 2018 6:59 pm; edited 3 times in total (Reason for editing : add a quote)
    magnumcromagnon
    magnumcromagnon

    Posts : 6208
    Points : 6361
    Join date : 2013-12-05
    Location : Pindos ave., Pindosville, Pindosylvania, Pindostan

    Strategic FOB System (Orbital Nuclear Weapons). Empty Re: Strategic FOB System (Orbital Nuclear Weapons).

    Post  magnumcromagnon on Sat May 16, 2020 12:18 pm

    GarryB wrote:Interesting... though the deorbit rocket motor would take up weight... you could get away with 2-3 separate warheads each with a deorbit motor on it... it probably would not be terribly accurate, but they could arrive from any direction at any time... which would make them rather good for use against an enormous target like the US or EU...

    There is no need for them to use a higher orbit so 300km would be fine... and would mean less energy would be needed for the de orbit burn.

    It could benefit to have a increased max altitude of 600km, in the case they want to engage X-37's.

    Strategic FOB System (Orbital Nuclear Weapons). D-o618EUEAYb03p?format=png&name=900x900

    The US has ignored any and all steps to prevent the further weaponization of space, and there's virtually no transparency....for all we know X-37's could be carrying nuclear warheads in orbit.
    kvs
    kvs

    Posts : 7058
    Points : 7207
    Join date : 2014-09-11
    Location : Canuckistan

    Strategic FOB System (Orbital Nuclear Weapons). Empty Re: Strategic FOB System (Orbital Nuclear Weapons).

    Post  kvs on Sat May 16, 2020 1:59 pm

    The yanquis are so smart that they are stupid. Do these clowns really think that Russia will just sit there and do nothing. Russia
    has world leading experience with hypersonic and orbital winged systems like the shuttle. The yanquis will get nukes orbiting over
    their heads if they deploy such systems over Russia.

    GarryB
    GarryB

    Posts : 26274
    Points : 26820
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Strategic FOB System (Orbital Nuclear Weapons). Empty Re: Strategic FOB System (Orbital Nuclear Weapons).

    Post  GarryB on Sun May 17, 2020 3:00 am

    The point is that the Russians already have super heavy ICBMs that can put warhead payloads into orbit, so they can already attack the US from any direction, and these rockets carried by the MiG just extends that capacity further.

    The US could spend trillions building new detection systems so they can see them coming.... so what... these are not going to be a first strike capacity... Russia doesn't even want that.

    Second... OK.. lets say they spend trillions and have radars and optical sensors all round the place searching for these weapons... a MiG-31 gets airborne and launches a missile... it enters orbit and flys around the planet... down over the south pole and then up south america and central america... what is America going to do?

    Start WWIII because the Russians launched a small low orbit satellite?

    By the time it fires its rocket motor to deorbit they wont have time to launch anything to intercept it.

    We have called it a potential FOB, but it could just as easily be an EMP weapon... no deorbit rocket... just a bigger bomb that explodes above the US blanking out all radio communications and radar signals for 20 minutes... can you see why FOBs were banned... but this isn't a FOB... this is an anti satellite/ABM missile... the reason the banned FOB and the reason the banned anti satellite weapons and the reason they banned ABM systems was because you can't know whether that rocket is a harmless satellite, or if it is a bomb, or an EMP first strike weapon designed to take out your ability to see the next wave coming...

    Russia didn't tear up the ABM treaty... America did.

    It could benefit to have a increased max altitude of 600km, in the case they want to engage X-37's.

    I was meaning for the purposes of a FOB weapon the extra altitude would not be very useful, while going for a lower altitude means you could make the bomb bigger and heavier and more powerful.

    I would expect their new rocket fuel technology should enhance the performance of all their rocket programmes, and scramjet technology will enhance it even further still...

    The US has ignored any and all steps to prevent the further weaponization of space, and there's virtually no transparency....for all we know X-37's could be carrying nuclear warheads in orbit.

    In fact the US has actively taken steps to prevent agreements on banning weapons from space...

    The yanquis will get nukes orbiting over
    their heads if they deploy such systems over Russia.

    Well when their new rocket fuel technology and scramjet technology and MiG-41 high speed interceptor technology combine... I rather suspect developing a first strike EMP weapon would become trivial... they will have to carefully monitor all MiG-41s because any one at any time could take off and launch one of these with no warning... it is not like an ICBM silo they can monitor for the IR signature of a launch.... even if they detect the launch it might orbit the planet 20 times before they detonate it over the US... every 90 minutes it will go around the planet, so every 90 minutes is another opportunity to set it off over the US or anywhere else they want to hit.

    Couldn't have done it without the US tearing up the ABM treaty... I hope they feel safer with all those billions of dollars spent on that already... how much safer are they exactly?

    What do you mean less safe than ever before?
    kvs
    kvs

    Posts : 7058
    Points : 7207
    Join date : 2014-09-11
    Location : Canuckistan

    Strategic FOB System (Orbital Nuclear Weapons). Empty Re: Strategic FOB System (Orbital Nuclear Weapons).

    Post  kvs on Sun May 17, 2020 5:00 am

    I have a hard time explaining all the treaty shredding by the yanquis without appealing to hubris and drinking of own koolaid.
    Intelligent decisions would not allow such nonsense. Maybe the yanquis think their laissez faire economics dogma is the
    recipe for existence, but that would be retarded. They think they can out-compete Russia in the market of high tech
    weapons systems. There is zero evidence for such "economics" and in fact the opposite where Russia is clearly leading
    the US in real hypersonic systems. The US doesn't even have supersonic anti-ship missiles. What competition are
    they putting out?

    magnumcromagnon
    magnumcromagnon

    Posts : 6208
    Points : 6361
    Join date : 2013-12-05
    Location : Pindos ave., Pindosville, Pindosylvania, Pindostan

    Strategic FOB System (Orbital Nuclear Weapons). Empty Orbital weapons

    Post  magnumcromagnon on Sun May 17, 2020 5:50 am

    kvs wrote:I have a hard time explaining all the treaty shredding by the yanquis without appealing to hubris and drinking of own koolaid.
    Intelligent decisions would not allow such nonsense.   Maybe the yanquis think their laissez faire economics dogma is the
    recipe for existence, but that would be retarded.  They think they can out-compete Russia in the market of high tech
    weapons systems.   There is zero evidence for such "economics" and in fact the opposite where Russia is clearly leading
    the US in real hypersonic systems.   The US doesn't even have supersonic anti-ship missiles.   What competition are
    they putting out?



    They don't have supersonic AshM's, and they never mastered 3D thrust-vectoring in rockets or jet powered objects like Russia did. 3D thrust-vectoring is just as important as the heat-resistant materials, and high-caloric fuels; It's the holy Trinity/trifecta that allows hypersonic munitions to exist. Zircon will likely have both, a gimbled 3D rocket thrust nozzle (for it's booster stage like on Tor-M2 missiles) as well as a 3D nozzle for the scram jet stage.

    Tor-M2 exemplifies to the importance of gimbled 3D thrust-vectoring for rockets:


    Sponsored content

    Strategic FOB System (Orbital Nuclear Weapons). Empty Re: Strategic FOB System (Orbital Nuclear Weapons).

    Post  Sponsored content


      Current date/time is Wed Oct 28, 2020 6:40 pm