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    Mobile Protected Firepower (Light Tank) program

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    Mobile Protected Firepower (Light Tank) program Empty More Weapons for War: US Army Aims for New Light Tank

    Post  d_taddei2 on Sat Aug 06, 2016 2:11 am

    http://sputniknews.com/us/20160806/1043988256/us-army-greenlights-light-tank.html

    More Weapons for War: US Army Aims for New Light Tank


    so i guess USA has now seen the benefits of having a light tank but the Russian's/Soviets have been doing it for years, even Belarus designed the 2T Stalker which was pretty good shame it never saw any orders.
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    Post  George1 on Wed Dec 19, 2018 12:40 pm

    BAE Systems and General Dynamics selected by the US Army for the further development of MPF combat vehicles


    As representatives of the US Army were told on December 17, 2018, BAE Systems and General Dynamics were selected as final bidders for developing tracked combat vehicles under the Mobile Protected Firepower (MPF) program on a competitive basis to create a kind of light tank with cannon armament for the American Army.

    BAE Systems and General Dynamics received contracts from the US Army worth $ 375.9 and $ 335 million, respectively, each for building and supplying 12 prototypes for testing their own version of the MPF machine for the design and development phase (Engineering, Manufacturing, and Development - EMD). Prototype delivery should be started in 14 months and completed in 18-19 months from the date of receipt of the contract. According to the results of comparative tests of the prototypes presented, the army should make the final choice of the machine for mass production and in 2022 Finn by the end of the 2021 fiscal year. year to issue to the selected contractor an order for the first pre-production batch of 26 cars with an option for the second pre-production batch of 28 cars. Full-scale commercial production is expected from 2025 Fin. of the year.

    The current plans of the US Army provides for the purchase of 504 MPF serial machines. First of all, these vehicles should be used to equip the planned for the formation of individual companies (the staffing level of the company is 14 vehicles) in the infantry brigades (Infantry Brigade Combat teams - IBCT). It is supposed to introduce such a company into each of the 33 infantry brigades of the regular army and the National Guard, the first such company should reach combat readiness in 2025 Fin. year

    The Mobile Protected Firepower (MPF) program, launched by the US Army in 2015, provides for the creation of a tracked combat vehicle weighing no more than 32 tons, equipped with 105 or 120 mm cannon armament and an active defense complex. According to the plan, MPF vehicles will have a higher level of operational and tactical mobility than Abrams tanks.

    Under this program, BAE Systems offers the reincarnation of the famous M8 Armored Gun Systems (AGS) Buford light tank, developed by FMC (then United Defense, now as part of BAE Systems) at the turn of the 1980s and 1990s to replace the M551 Sheridan light tank, primarily in airborne units. In 1995, the M8 tank was adopted by the US Army, but in 1997, the M8 program was canceled before the start of mass production due to cuts in military spending. It was built only six samples of the M8. The lightweight tank M8 has a combat weight of 19 to 25 tons, depending on the version of the replacement protection kit, and is equipped with a 105 mm M35 gun with an automatic loader.

    General Dynamics proposes the Griffin II machine for MPF based on the Griffin I demonstrator prototype developed several years ago. Ajax (the developers and manufacturers of ASCOD 2 are European companies owned by General Dynamics - Spanish General Dynamics European Land Systems Santa Bárbara Sistemas and Austrian General Dynamics European Land Systems - Steyr). The total mass of the tower in Griffin I was reduced from 22 tons (for tank M1A2SEPv.2) to only 8 tons, and the total weight of Griffin I was declared to be "less than 30 tons" (according to a number of publications - 27-28 tons).

    The third contender in the MPF competition (and ultimately not in the final) was SAIC, which offered a vehicle based on the CMI Defense Cockeril 3105 co 105 HP gun based on the Singapore-based ST Kinetics NGAFV with the installation of the Belgian tower. The mass of the car was 29 tons.

    Mobile Protected Firepower (Light Tank) program 6328447_original
    ВАЕ Systems М8 Armored Gun Systems (AGS) (с) ВАЕ Systems

    Mobile Protected Firepower (Light Tank) program 6328278_original
    General Dynamics Griffin I

    https://bmpd.livejournal.com/3462222.html
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    Post  George1 on Mon Sep 23, 2019 12:37 am

    Light Tank General Dynamics Griffin II


    At the annual Modern Day Marine 2019 exhibition and conference held in Quantico, Virginia on September 17-19, 2019, General Dynamics Corporation for the first time presented the model of its "light tank" Griffin II, the project of which was previously selected by the US Army as one of two final applicants for the development on a competitive basis of tracked combat vehicles with cannon weapons under the Mobile Protected Firepower (MPF) program.

    Mobile Protected Firepower (Light Tank) program Ifv10
    Model of a tracked combat vehicle with cannon armament (“light tank”) General Dynamics Griffin II under the Mobile Protected Firepower (MPF) program at the 2019 Modern Day Marine exhibition and conference exposition. Quantico, September 2019 (c) Jimkir / twitter.com/Jimkir78


    Recall that in December 2018, the U.S. Army issued BAE Systems and General Dynamics contracts for the development of competitively tracked combat vehicles under the Mobile Protected Firepower (MPF) program, which provides for the creation of a kind of new “light tank” with cannon weapons for the American army. BAE Systems and General Dynamics received US $ 375.9 and 335 million contracts from the US Army, respectively, each for the construction and delivery for testing of 12 prototypes of its own version of the MPF machine at the R&D stage (Engineering, Manufacturing, and Development - EMD). The supply of prototypes should be started after 14 months and completed after 18-19 months from the receipt of the contract. According to the results of comparative tests of the presented prototypes, the US Army should by the end of fiscal year 2021 make the final choice of a machine for serial production and in 2022 fin. to issue an order to the selected contractor for the first pre-production batch of 26 cars with an option for the second pre-production batch of 28 cars. Full-scale serial production is expected from 2025 fin. of the year.

    The current plans of the US Army provide for the purchase of 504 serial MPF machines. First of all, these vehicles should go to equip the companies planned for the formation of individual companies (staffing the company is 14 vehicles) in infantry brigades (Infantry Brigade Combat teams - IBCT). The introduction of such a company into each of the 33 infantry brigades of the regular army and the National Guard is supposed, the first such company should achieve combat readiness in 2025 fin. year.

    The Mobile Protected Firepower (MPF) program, launched by the US Army in 2015, provides for the creation of a tracked combat vehicle weighing no more than 32 tons at first (according to the latest data, the mass limit has been increased to 38 tons - although it may mean “short” tons), equipped with cannon weapons of 105 or 120 mm caliber and active defense complex. By design, MPF vehicles will have a higher level of operational and tactical mobility than Abrams tanks.

    BAE Systems offers under this program the reincarnation of the famous M8 Armored Gun Systems (AGS) Buford, developed by FMC (then United Defense, now part of BAE Systems) at the turn of the 1980s and 1990s to replace the M551 Sheridan light tank, primarily in the airborne formations. In 1995, the M8 tank was adopted by the U.S. Army, but in 1997 the M8 program was canceled before the start of mass production due to reduced military spending. Only six M8 models were built. The light tank M8 has a combat weight of 19 to 25 tons, depending on the version of the interchangeable protection kit and is equipped with a 105 mm M35 cannon with automatic loader.

    At the same time, General Dynamics is proposing under the MPF program the Griffin II machine of a completely new development, the appearance of which has not been made public until recently. It is known that Griffin II was developed on the basis of the Griffin I prototype demonstrator shown several years ago, which was the installation of a modified lightweight turret of the M1A2SEPv2 Abrams tank with the new 120 mm XM360 gun on the ASCOD 2 chassis, used in the new British Ajax tracked combat reconnaissance vehicle (developers and manufacturers of ASCOD 2 are European-owned General Dynamics-owned European companies - Spanish General Dynamics European Land Systems Santa Bárbara Sistemas and Austrian General Dynamics European Land Systems - Steyr). The total mass of the tower in Griffin I was reduced from 22 tons (for the M1A2SEPv.2 tank) to supposedly only 8 tons, and the total weight of the Griffin I was declared to be “less than 30 tons” (according to a number of publications - 27-28 tons).

    At the same time, according to a number of publications, the combat weight of the new Griffin II reaches exactly the indicated maximum limits for MPF of 38 tons. You can see that on the presented Griffin II model the tower again returned to almost “normal” sizes for the main tank - including through the installation of very impressive modular reservation blocks ..

    https://bmpd.livejournal.com/3782829.html
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    Post  George1 on Fri Apr 24, 2020 1:35 pm

    The first public demonstration of military vehicles under the American MPF ​​program


    April 23, 2020, during a visit by US Army Secretary Ryan McCarthy to General Dynamics Ground System (GDLS, part of General Dynamics) and BAE Systems in Detroit, the first prototypes of competing tracked combat vehicles presented under the Mobile Protected Firepower (MPF) program were first publicly demonstrated cannon weapons of both developers.

    Recall that the Mobile Protected Firepower (MPF) program, launched by the US Army in 2015, provides for the creation of a tracked combat vehicle weighing no more than 32 tons at first (according to the latest data, the mass limit has been raised to 38 tons - although it may mean “short” tons), equipped with cannon weapons of 105 or 120 mm caliber and active defense complex. By design, MPF vehicles will have a higher level of operational and tactical mobility than Abrams tanks.

    In December 2018, the U.S. Army issued BAE Systems and General Dynamics contracts for the development of competitively tracked combat vehicles under the MPF program in the amount of $ 375.9 and 335 million, respectively, each for the construction and delivery for testing of 12 prototypes of its own version of the MPF machine for stage of development work (Engineering, Manufacturing, and Development - EMD). The delivery of prototypes should be started after 14 months and completed after 18-19 months from the date of receipt of the contract - and now the first prototypes are shown to the US Army Secretary.

    According to the results of comparative tests of prototypes, the US Army should make the final choice of a machine for serial production by the end of fiscal year 2021 and in 2022 fin. to issue an order to the selected contractor for the first pre-production batch of 26 cars with an option for the second pre-production batch of 28 cars. Full-scale serial production is expected from 2025 fin. of the year.

    Current plans for the US Army include the purchase of 504 serial MPF machines. First of all, these machines should go to equip the companies planned for the formation of individual companies (staffing the company is 14 vehicles) in infantry brigades (Infantry Brigade Combat teams - IBCT). The introduction of such a company into each of the 33 infantry brigades of the regular army and the National Guard is supposed, the first such company should achieve combat readiness in 2025 fin. year.

    BAE Systems offers under this program the reincarnation of the famous M8 Armored Gun Systems (AGS) Buford, developed by FMC (then United Defense, now part of BAE Systems) at the turn of the 1980s and 1990s to replace the M551 Sheridan light tank, primarily in the airborne formations. In 1995, the M8 tank was adopted by the U.S. Army, but in 1997 the M8 program was canceled before the start of mass production due to reduced military spending. Only six M8 models were built. The light tank M8 had a combat weight of 19 to 25 tons, depending on the version of the interchangeable protection kit, and was equipped with a 105 mm M35 gun in a remote installation with an automatic loader. Judging by the first prototype of the M8-based MPF machine publicly demonstrated during the visit of the US Army Secretary to the BAE Systems facility, the updated version of the machine has enhanced armor reservation and gun installation.

    Under the MPF program, General Dynamics offers a completely new development of the Griffin II vehicle based on the Griffin I prototype demonstrator shown several years ago, which was the installation of a modified lightweight turret of the M1A2SEPv2 Abrams tank with the new 120 mm XM360 cannon on the ASCOD 2 chassis used in the new British caterpillar Ajax combat reconnaissance vehicle (ASCOD 2 developers and manufacturers are European companies owned by General Dynamics - Spanish General Dynamics European Land Systems Santa Bárbara Sistemas and Austrian General Dynamics European Land Systems - Steyr). The total mass of the tower in Griffin I was reduced from 22 tons (for the M1A2 SEPv.2 tank) to supposedly only 8 tons, and the total mass of the Griffin I was declared to be “less than 30 tons” (according to a number of publications - 27-28 tons).

    At the same time, according to a number of publications, the Griffin II combat mass reaches exactly the indicated maximum MPF 38 tons. You can see that on Griffin II the tower again returned to almost “normal” sizes for the main tank - including through the installation of very impressive modular reservation blocks.

    Also, the U.S. Army Minister at the GDLS facility was shown (also for the first time publicly) a prototype Griffin III infantry fighting vehicle (on the same platform), presented by the company at a recent failed competition under the US Army's Optionally Manned Fighting Vehicle (OMFV) program to replace the current U.S. fleet BMP M2 Bradley (now this program is restarted), and the chassis of a prototype demonstrator of a TL1 crewless tracked combat platform under the US Army Robotic Combat Vehicle-Medium (RCV-M) program. In addition, there was one of the prototypes of the GDLS MUTT (Multi-Utility Tactical Transport) land-based light wheeled light vehicle transport platform, which was already repeatedly demonstrated since 2014, under the US Army Squad Multipurpose Equipment Transport (SMET) program.

    Griffin II combat vehicle
    , developed by General Dynamics under the US Army's Mobile Protected Firepower (MPF)
    Mobile Protected Firepower (Light Tank) program Griffi10
    Mobile Protected Firepower (Light Tank) program Griffi11

    Combat vehicle based on the M8 light tank, developed by BAE Systems under the US Army's Mobile Protected Firepower (MPF)
    Mobile Protected Firepower (Light Tank) program M8_lig10
    Mobile Protected Firepower (Light Tank) program M8_lig11

    Griffin III infantry fighting vehicle developed by the General Dynamics Ground System (GDLS) under the US Army Optionally Manned Fighting Vehicle (OMFV) program.
    Mobile Protected Firepower (Light Tank) program Griffi12
    Mobile Protected Firepower (Light Tank) program Griffi13

    https://bmpd.livejournal.com/4004264.html
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    Post  The-thing-next-door on Mon May 11, 2020 9:22 am

    George1 wrote:
    Griffin III infantry fighting vehicle developed by the General Dynamics Ground System (GDLS) under the US Army Optionally Manned Fighting Vehicle (OMFV) program.
    Mobile Protected Firepower (Light Tank) program Griffi12
    Mobile Protected Firepower (Light Tank) program Griffi13

    https://bmpd.livejournal.com/4004264.html

    So this thing is basically a Kurganets knock off, how truly revolutionary. Right down to where and how they mount the sights/thermals.

    Looking at that turret though I cannot hep but think that it looks like it is made of plastic???? Is this the case?
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    Post  magnumcromagnon on Mon May 11, 2020 8:12 pm

    The-thing-next-door wrote:
    George1 wrote:
    Griffin III infantry fighting vehicle developed by the General Dynamics Ground System (GDLS) under the US Army Optionally Manned Fighting Vehicle (OMFV) program.
    Mobile Protected Firepower (Light Tank) program Griffi12
    Mobile Protected Firepower (Light Tank) program Griffi13

    https://bmpd.livejournal.com/4004264.html

    So this thing is basically a Kurganets knock off, how truly revolutionary. Right down to where and how they mount the sights/thermals.

    Looking at that turret though I cannot hep but think that it looks like it is made of plastic???? Is this the case?

    Maybe it's composite, it definitely doesn't look like steel. You're right the turret and the caliber of the gun makes it look like a knockoff Kurganets. Laughing
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    Post  GarryB on Tue May 12, 2020 4:08 am

    To be fair that sight arrangement is pretty standard... a lower mount with limited traverse... 50-60 degrees at most but often 30-40 degrees side to side for the gunners sight on one side of the tank gun and a top mounted commanders sight with full 360 degrees view... the commander looks around for targets and threats and when he spots something he wants to shoot at normally he either selects the target and pushes a button which turns the turret to point at the target and the gunner will see the target in his sights already selected and will start engaging that target till it is clearly destroyed or until the commander directs him to attack another target.

    For instance the commander might spot a Bradley at 6km range, so the gunner might start engaging it with HEAT, but the commander might then spot an Abrams at 2km range, so would order the gunner to stop attacking the Bradley and start engaging the Abrams because it is a threat as well as being a target at that range.

    On older vehicles with less sophisticated systems the commander would give the gunner a bearing and a distance to the target so the gunner could traverse the turret to the bearing and look at the range given to find the target himself... the gunner generally had higher magnification optics for shooting and lower mag optics to look around the target area to find the target, while the commander often had medium magnification for identification purposes and lower magnification for searching larger areas faster...

    Amusing this news about America developing a new light tank... at 32 tons max weight limit they could count their Kurganets and Boomerang and Sprut in this competition. I remember their last light tank programme was a 40 ton tank... ironic that the worlds best light tanks happen to be Russian and Soviet MBTs most of the time...
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    Post  The-thing-next-door on Tue May 12, 2020 11:00 am

    Well thier move towards light tanks seems to indicate that they are not goin to try and make something that can survive a battle with an Armata but rather make "cheap" cannon fodder light vehicles instead, I guess the 152mm is no longer needed and the future is an upgraded T-72 with a 76mm autocannon.
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    Post  GarryB on Tue May 12, 2020 1:26 pm

    Well 32 tons is too heavy to air drop, but I rather suspect the plan is to have a mixed range of formations like the Russians are planning but instead of having unified vehicle families in different weight classes having a light tank and a normal tank (upgraded Abrams) they would effectively have two tiers of armoured divisions... a heavy one with Abrams and a light one with these new vehicles... and perhaps Strykers as the APC, while maybe the heavy divisions might get a tank based IFV to replace the Bradley...

    Who knows... the 152mm tank gun has been useful because a lot of the new 125mm rounds are based on rounds developed for the 152mm gun AFAIK...
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    Post  The-thing-next-door on Tue May 12, 2020 3:02 pm

    GarryB wrote:Well 32 tons is too heavy to air drop, but I rather suspect the plan is to have a mixed range of formations like the Russians are planning but instead of having unified vehicle families in different weight classes having a light tank and a normal tank (upgraded Abrams) they would effectively have two tiers of armoured divisions... a heavy one with Abrams and a light one with these new vehicles... and perhaps Strykers as the APC, while maybe the heavy divisions might get a tank based IFV to replace the Bradley...
    .

    I believe they said that they would entirely replace the abrams with lighter vehicles, this would make sense as the us has a strongly negative cultural disposition toward heavy weapons and "super weapons" like heavy tanks and missiles cruisers despite the obvious advantages they give to a force armed with even a few of them (please name the usn strike group composition that could perform better against enemy shipping than an Orlan and 2 Gorshkovs).

    Though they have stated that they will keep the abrams till 2030/40.
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    Post  GarryB on Wed May 13, 2020 4:43 am

    Well lets face it... why drag 70 ton tanks around the place if a Konkurs missile can penetrate and destroy them... would make sense to make a smaller lighter cheaper tank that is easier to move in larger numbers that does not require a fuel tanker fleet to keep their engines running.

    Desert Storm had to wait 6 months while the Americans moved in their armour, so during the first 6 months of the build up Saudi Arabia was being guarded by lightly equipped airborne forces with Sheridan tanks that could be penetrated frontally with 14.5mm HMG AP rounds... that is armed with a 152mm gun... the only gun of that calibre in the western world at the time, that is essentially a missile launch tube for a weapon that has been into combat situations several times and never scored a single kill.

    In comparison a VDV force armed with Spruts with 125mm main guns with full power ammo and of course armoured vehicles armed with Kornets and other potent ATGMs could probably take on the front line armies of 90% of the worlds countries with a good chance of winning.
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    Post  The-thing-next-door on Wed May 13, 2020 11:17 am

    The Sprut is just a thing that can fire APFSDS when the situation would not alow for the deployment of MBTs and it can in no way surpass an MBT.

    Look at the T-14 and think what is the primary improvement? hmm perhaps that it is probably the most heavily armoured tank in the world and on top of that has an APS and ERA allowing it to do that one thing that seperates tanks from heavily armed cannon fodder like the centauro and stryker MGS and that one thing is to potentially survive an engagement.

    During the start WWII the Soviets had many of the best light tanks in the world and toward the end a light tank was a rare sight.
    Simply put a dead tank is no good to its army.
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    Post  GarryB on Thu May 14, 2020 6:59 am

    The Sprut is just a thing that can fire APFSDS when the situation would not alow for the deployment of MBTs and it can in no way surpass an MBT.

    But that is the point... the places it can go and will be used are places where normal western 70 ton MBTs cannot go, so effectively it is the MBT in what ever region it is used.

    Delivered behind enemy lines to attack critical targets like air fields or other important places the odds are that they enemy wont have any MBTs to defend the location. At best they will likely have rather good air defences... so a British para unit landing nearby to take the airfield will loose a lot of transport planes which will seriously impact the number of troops that end up trying to attack the airfield. For the Russians with their fully mechanised force can land 100km away from the target airfield... form up in the middle of nowhere and then as a force move at high speed and attack the target airfield.... the mobility and fire power of a MBT is what they need in such an operation...

    Look at the T-14 and think what is the primary improvement? hmm perhaps that it is probably the most heavily armoured tank in the world and on top of that has an APS and ERA allowing it to do that one thing that seperates tanks from heavily armed cannon fodder like the centauro and stryker MGS and that one thing is to potentially survive an engagement.

    But there are places a 25 ton tank can operate and perform its job well where a 50 ton tank just can't operate... thick snow, thick mud, mountains, forests... and also even the lightest tank can have APS and NERA protection improving the safety of the crew.

    The key feature of the T-14 is moving the entire crew down into the hull under the heaviest protection... but the Kurganets and Boomerang also do the same thing...


    During the start WWII the Soviets had many of the best light tanks in the world and toward the end a light tank was a rare sight.
    Simply put a dead tank is no good to its army.

    At the start of WWII the Soviets had the best medium tanks, their light tanks were terrible throwbacks with two crew members making the commanders job impossible. Even when they scaled them up a little and gave them a decent 45mm gun the commander was still loader and commander in those three man crewed tanks.

    The French Char had good armour but most of the same problems of crew role allocation and positioning... the only good light tanks at the start of WWII were the German light tanks because of their three man turrets and job allocation allowing the loader to focus on keeping the gun loaded with the required type of round, the gunner could focus on hitting targets allocated by the commander, the driver just drove where instructed and the commander just commanded... ie directed the others to do their jobs.

    The T-34 and KV-1 were pretty much medium tanks, though the latter was considered by the Soviets to be a heavy it was lighter than German and western heavies by a wide margin. Both have good armour and a good gun but not great crew layouts.

    If you are trying to say heavy tanks are safe tanks and anything smaller is dead, then that is exactly the thinking that led to the west having 70 ton tanks and the Germans during WWII designing more and more ridiculous tank designs.

    How many T-34s did the Soviets make compared with the Germans Tiger Is or Panther Is?

    I am not suggesting making weak light tanks to over whelm the enemy, but with full power 125mm guns a cheap simple light tank on the Sprut or Boomerang or Kurganets chassis can take out any western 70 ton tank then you have to ask what the value of hauling around all that dead weight is?

    Especially when it means a C-17 can only carry an Abrams one at a time... that was the whole purpose of the C-17... to be able to haul around complete Abrams tanks.

    A Sprut at 25 tons... you could carry three... and you could probably make three for the cost of one Abrams.

    Tanks are not used on their own, they are part of a team that works together, so having three Spruts is important... they could have all the communications and night fighting optics of an Abrams, and a gun that is just as powerful... all it lacks is weight... which means slightly less protection but also much better mobility and transportability so it is a positive as well as a negative.

    Fighting in soft boggy terrain, or operating in places with weak infrastructure... the Abrams would destroy local bridges while Sprut... is amphibious and could cross pretty much anywhere you need to... an enemy fighting Abrams could blow the bridges and limit their mobility... would not make any difference with Spruts...
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    Post  Isos on Thu May 14, 2020 8:38 am

    Well south african armoured cars with 75mm gun destroyed angolan t-55 whuch is a tank.

    Sprut sd has the gun to destoy a tank, it has better mobility and it is a much smaller target.

    Advantage of the tank is frontal protection but even then there are some weak spots that could be pentrated.

    Well employed with soldiers equiped with atgm and it could win against a group of tanks unless it is a flat area with no obstacles.

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