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    Russian Military Satellites: News & Development

    PapaDragon
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    Post  PapaDragon Fri May 20, 2022 11:46 pm

    owais.usmani wrote:....

    The picture now emerging is that Kosmos-2551 and 2555 may not have been failures after all and were actually intended to stay in orbit for only several weeks. The chances that the two satellites suffered exactly the same type of failure must be considered relatively small.

    I prefer this option, hopefully it's the real one
    Scorpius
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    Post  Scorpius Sat May 21, 2022 9:14 pm

    PapaDragon wrote:
    owais.usmani wrote:....

    The picture now emerging is that Kosmos-2551 and 2555 may not have been failures after all and were actually intended to stay in orbit for only several weeks. The chances that the two satellites suffered exactly the same type of failure must be considered relatively small.

    I prefer this option, hopefully it's the real one

    Simple logic: if this is the loss of two military satellites in a row, we will soon see resignations among the leadership of the Space Forces. If not, then...
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    limb


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    Post  limb Sat May 21, 2022 10:49 pm

    Is glonass sufficient for guiding satellite guided bombs against movin g targets in Ukraine? Can russians spot ukrainian moving trains in real time through satellites?
    flamming_python
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    Post  flamming_python Sun May 22, 2022 12:14 am

    limb wrote:Can russians spot ukrainian moving trains in real time through satellites?

    Of course not

    Spy satellites are only above a given location once per orbit. In theory they can be put into a geosynchronous orbit, but those orbits tend to be further away from Earth and you won't get sufficient resolution. Maybe that's going to change with the latest tech and optics.

    You're also not going to spot much at night either, satellites depend on the reflection of sunlight from the Earth. Or when its cloudy


    Last edited by flamming_python on Sun May 22, 2022 8:54 am; edited 2 times in total
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Sun May 22, 2022 8:48 am

    Western GPS is useless for tracking and hitting moving targets, how could GLONASS manage that?

    A moving target by definition changes its ground or air coordinates... as it moves.

    Using map coordinates to hit such a target would require you know the coordinates of the target at the time you hit it with the weapon.

    There are two ways to do that with a train target... blow up the tracks en route so the train has to stop there and then hit it with satellite guided weapons... but you would need a few because you can't be sure where they are going to stop and how long they will stay before reversing out of this obvious trap.

    The othe option is to hit the station it is taking the supplies to... just as it arrives....

    Obviously with a target like a train I would use the fact that train tracks are visible and don't have sharp turns... 100km down the track from where your target is expected launch a Kh-59M (HATO codename AS-18 Kazoo) which has been in service for a very very long time now... as soon as you launch it your aircraft can turn to a purpendicular flight course because it can control the missile and receive target data via a datalink pod the aircraft carries that will work to about 150km range.

    Fly the missile towards the train line and then turn and fly down the train line looking for the target.. you can fly it high for good visibility or 15m above the track... when it spots the suitable train it can drop down to 2m above the track and hit the engine or the front carriage.

    Another option would be to destroy a bridge in the path of the train... preferably as the train is crossing the bridge... the bridge is a fixed coordinate target and would be easy to hit it would just be a question of timing.

    Of course most of their cruise missiles used terminal guidance so the satellite navigation gets them to the area the target is expected to be and then the terminal guidance... whether radar or optical can locate the actual target and guide the weapon in to hit it precisely.

    Normally you have other aircraft with you that can lase a target for a laser homing missile to hit a moving target, or a TV guided weapon like a Kh-29T or as I mentioned the TV guided Kh-59K with a digital data link and small turbojet sustainer engine can be used.

    Russia will have rather accurate digital maps of the Ukraine and could use radar guided weapons to detect moving targets like vehicles or trains too... the Kh-31 or the Kh-35 would be excellent for hitting train sized targets on the move.

    They have spy satellites that are not in geosynchronous orbits but they don't hover over the region like they do in the movies.

    You need multiple satellites and you likely still wont get 24/7 continuous coverage of every part of the country... but you don't need to continuously track a train to hit it. Or a large group of civilian vehicles that seem to be headed towards the conflict zone instead of away from it with some vehicles towing strange looking trailers with them if you know what I mean...
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    Gazputin


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    Russian Military Satellites: News & Development - Page 8 Empty GPS - Russian base stations

    Post  Gazputin Sun May 22, 2022 2:29 pm

    came across this today by chance
    I didn't think you could "turn-off" the satellites
    ( and you can detune them having experienced that myself in the middle of the Pacific 20 years ago or so )

    anyway interesting summary of how they can de-tune it ...
    and the location of Rus GPS groundstations

    Russia will be disconnected from GPS in April-May 2022
    "Roscosmos on April 22 will send technical proposals to the Ministry of Transport and the Federal Air Transport Agency to replace GPS with GLONASS subscriber equipment. It will also be able to receive a signal from the Chinese navigation system," Rogozin wrote on Twitter.

    The consequences of disabling GPS

    in Russia will be noticeable, but not critical.
    To begin with, it is impossible to disconnect a particular country from the GPS purely technically. After all, the orbits of satellites are not stationary, so it is impossible to turn off the satellites responsible for a certain zone:
    each satellite has too large a coverage area.
    However, theoretically, it is possible to disable 11 GPS ground stations located in:

    Kaluga and Sverdlovsk regions;
    Krasnoyarsk Territory;
    Yakutia;
    Irkutsk;
    Magadan;
    Yuzhny Sakhalin;
    Petropavlovsk-Kamchatsky.

    It is they who constantly refine the parameters improving the quality of navigation. This can lead to a decrease in the accuracy of satellite geodesy in Russia and a deterioration in positioning on devices to several hundred meters.

    Russian ground stations in the United States.
    You can't turn off GPS, but you can distort the data.
    In 2008, this was already done

    (this also confirms it is impossible to use GPS to hit a moving target re discussion above )

    owais.usmani likes this post

    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Mon May 23, 2022 2:45 am

    Turning off ground stations in Russia is a good thing, they are used to make GPS in those regions more precise by measuring the signals from the satellites from fixed known locations so any error can be measured and used in nearby receivers to correct the location to a better precision.
    In other words a site that is in known position of x y z uses a GPS receiver to find its position via GPS is out by 10m in X an 3m in Y and 4m in Z.... then they can send the information to the US who can adjust the signals to make the signals more accurate for the area... maybe 0.5m, 0.1m and 0.4m off... which will effect the accuracy of the entire region by improving it. But obviously it also improves the precision of the military signal too.

    During the confict in Georgia it was stated that the Civilian signals were turned off in that region... it would not be hard... the satellites have fixed orbits and their civilian signals could be turned off as they approach selected regions and turned back on once they passed those regions, or their accuracy reduced to the point where they were hundreds of kms out making them useless.

    US claims they no longer degrade the accuracy and wouldn't turn it off are not to be trusted... I wouldn't believe them if they said the sky was blue.
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    owais.usmani


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    Post  owais.usmani Fri May 27, 2022 3:16 pm

    PapaDragon wrote:
    Scorpius wrote:MOSCOW, April 29. /tass/. The Angara-1.2 light rocket launched for the first time with a spacecraft in the interests of the Russian Defense Ministry on Friday from the Plesetsk cosmodrome in the Arkhangelsk region, the ministry told reporters....

    Spacecraft in question (Kosmos-2555 military satellite) burned away in atmosphere after malfunctioning

    https://bmpd.livejournal.com/4527612.html

    Either have more of them in storage for quick replacement or do something about quality control


    https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=54797.msg2371757#msg2371757

    The VNIIEM Corporation is working on a satellite project called Geovysota. These are aerodynamically shaped satellites designed to operate in very low orbits and probably look similar to the satellite seen in the attachment. Kosmos-2551 and 2555 may have been the first satellites of this type and it is very well possible that their missions were not failures as widely reported in the media. See the thread on Geovysota:

    https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=56422.0

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