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3M22 Zircon Hypersonic Cruise Missile

Arrow

Arrow: Posts : 3863
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Post n°976

Re: 3M22 Zircon Hypersonic Cruise Missile

Arrow Thu Dec 05, 2024 3:05 pm

GarryB
What are you trying to prove now? We know what the Cirkon looks like. We can't see just the front. It may be more pointed than the P-800. The rest is very similar to the Onyx. Of course, it may have a scramjet, it has a much more powerful solid fuel booster, a better warhead, etc. However, it does not have the Waverider design. It probably has similar air intakes as the Onyx. It may have a slightly different end, similar to the American mockup.

o wonder we worship the Russian scientists... fucking idiots here think the flat nosed fairing on a Zircon missile allows it to fly at mach 10... no wonder the Americans can't achieve the same thing... they are wasting their time with pointy noses and wedge shapes when a flat nose is the real secret and the Russians are displaying their super secret nose shape to everyone... only stupid people like me think they would not reveal the actual missile nose shape because they don't want their western enemies to copy them but now the cat is out of the bag... with this new technology even Yasen and Kilo class subs could be hypersonic... just fit them with scramjets and they will be hitting mach 10 in no time... Rolling Eyes Mir on Thu Dec 05, 2024 12:33 pm wrote:

What are you saying?

TMA1

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Post n°977

Re: 3M22 Zircon Hypersonic Cruise Missile

TMA1 Fri Dec 06, 2024 12:38 am

The missile has an ogival curve near the end. It is pretty clear that it is not like the onix from the shape that we see. Soviets tested many ramjet and scramjet designs including some with similar functioning to the wave rider shape. The energies required to get a missile of onix size up to hypersonic speeds and sustain it for over a thousand kilometers kind of requires exotic solutions like scramjet or detonation engines.

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Arrow

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Post n°978

Re: 3M22 Zircon Hypersonic Cruise Missile

Arrow Fri Dec 06, 2024 6:18 am

There is a narrowing and then a cover. And that's it.

There is a hypothesis that it is an ordinary rocket and there is no scramjet there.Unless there are air intakes, the missile is powered by solid fuel. So there is no breakthrough.
The photos show that this is more and more likely and there is no mythical scram jet there.

https://x.com/krakek1/status/1610612801860685824?t=wymYZfXgEg9lrrprnR5s1A&s=19

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TMA1

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Post n°979

Re: 3M22 Zircon Hypersonic Cruise Missile

TMA1 Fri Dec 06, 2024 10:38 am

Bro you are wrong I'm sorry. Remember these posts when the info finally comes out. The energy requirements for getting a missile of that size up to speed and maintaining that hypersonic speed for minutes I'd impossible with current solid fuels imo and from discussing this with others much brighter and more knowledgeable than I. Russia has been working in the field of hypersonic aeronautics since before the fall of the soviet union and have developed working hypersonic test engines. They have hypersonic wind tunnels. They have supercomputers. They have experts in the field who have worked with our own best scientists and engineers in the field.

We know that it is air breathing. We know for it's size that if it can achieve and maintain mach 8-9 speeds for minutes and reach the target at speed a thousand klicks away that it is using some novel tech. I do not know what else to tell you. You goofy doomers put Russia under scrutiny that no other nation faces. A nation that has been sanctioned and blacklisted by the west, that has not died but survived, and is resisting. It holds crimea and has nukes to kill us all if our leaders do something insane which more and more I think they might get to that breaking point.

I understand why you are dooming. Putin is not your kind of leader. In these exceeding dangerous times I am glad you doomers are not at the helm. Our leaders here provide enough dangerous hubris and insanity. We do not need more of it.

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Arrow

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Post n°980

Re: 3M22 Zircon Hypersonic Cruise Missile

Arrow Fri Dec 06, 2024 3:45 pm

o you are wrong I'm sorry. Remember these posts when the info finally comes out. The energy requirements for getting a missile of that size up to speed and maintaining that hypersonic speed for minutes I'd impossible with current solid fuels imo and from discussing this with others much brighter and more knowledgeable t wrote:

Not necessarily. Progress in solid fuels is progressing. Russia is making better and better solid fuels. There is a possibility that Tsirkon has some very efficient solid fuel engine.

Russia has been working in the field of hypersonic aeronautics since before the fall of the soviet union and have developed working hypersonic test engines. They have hypersonic wind tunnels. They have supercomputers. They have experts in the field who have worked with our own best scientists and engineers in the field. wrote:

So? Does anyone deny this?

We know that it is air breathing. We know for it's size that if it can achieve and maintain mach 8-9 speeds for minutes and reach the target at speed a thousand klicks away that it is using some novel tech. I do not know what else to tell you. You goofy doomers put Russia under scrutiny that no other nation faces wrote:

Nobody knows anything. Apart from people involved in the project etc. Assuming they have some very efficient solid-fuel engine is not a criticism of Russia. Quite the opposite. We are discussing various options for hypersonic missile propulsion. It doesn't always have to be a scramjet. Of course, it can't be ruled out.

In some movie, in the last stage, you can see that the first stage of the solid fuel engine is finishing its work, unfortunately it then breaks off. In another, you can see the second stage working, but the missile flies so high that it is difficult to distinguish whether it is exhaust fumes from the solid fuel engine of the next stage or a condensation trail created by the scramjet/ramjet. I bet on a trail, though. Until they show the whole Cirkon or a better quality film of a long flight, it is difficult to say anything.

Arrow

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Post n°981

Re: 3M22 Zircon Hypersonic Cruise Missile

Arrow Fri Dec 06, 2024 3:49 pm

Of course, this is also an option with scramjet drive. Paralay drawing.

3M22 Zircon Hypersonic Cruise Missile - Page 40 217433-214e9512b2158cd867a4366e2e099cc0

3M22 Zircon Hypersonic Cruise Missile - Page 40 217433-214e9512b2158cd867a4366e2e099cc0

GarryB

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Post n°982

Re: 3M22 Zircon Hypersonic Cruise Missile

GarryB Sat Dec 07, 2024 1:27 am

What are you trying to prove now? We know what the Cirkon looks like. We can't see just the front. It may be more pointed than the P-800. The rest is very similar to the Onyx.

You mean the same way that a Polikarpov I-16 fighter looks exactly the same as a MiG-21?

Or a MiG-21 looks exactly the same as a MiG-25?

When you say it may be more pointed you are essentially saying the Zircon is just an Onyx... so why is the US and the west struggling to make either type of missile if they have been flying since the mid 1990s?

However, it does not have the Waverider design. It probably has similar air intakes as the Onyx. It may have a slightly different end, similar to the American mockup.

Your confidence is totally misplaced... we don't know what the front end of this missile looks like... have you noticed they have shown clear images of the launch but not side on clear images when the nose cap is ejected and it accelerates away?

It doesn't accelerate away at mach 10... something in the air in the flight path of the missile as it is launched and heads on its way could easily film the missile but that would reveal the shape of the missile which is clearly still secret.

Why would it be secret if it is just a slightly pointier Onyx nose?

How slightly pointier would it need to be to travel three times faster?

What are you saying?

You are saying Zircon is Onyx... I am calling your bullshit western propaganda.

The missile has an ogival curve near the end. It is pretty clear that it is not like the onix from the shape that we see.

It might have a more sophisticated shape than the wedge shapes shown in the west and in Soviet designs of the past, they have super computers now and perhaps have developed a more sophisticated shape to get the same effect.

Having said that are there actually any waverider shaped platforms that actually work... this one clearly obviously does work which suggests it might be different.

GarryB

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Post n°983

Re: 3M22 Zircon Hypersonic Cruise Missile

GarryB Sat Dec 07, 2024 1:30 am

Nobody knows anything.

Until they show the whole Cirkon or a better quality film of a long flight, it is difficult to say anything.

And so you can't know anything and can't say anything so you say Zircon is Onyx with a slightly pointier nose...

Yeah.... that is why hypersonics are so difficult... because who would think of making Onyx slightly pointier.

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pavi

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Post n°984

Solid fuels

pavi Sun Dec 08, 2024 12:13 pm

Solid fuels need to carry oxygen to burn. Air breathing missile don't. Zircon is launched from VLS tubes and therefore are not large missiles. Iskander SRBM is solid fuel missile and can travel around 500 km in ballistic trajectory. Zircon has 1000km+ range and flies horizontally and is powered whole fligth. If you burn hydrogen, you will need one oxygen molecule for two hydrogen molecule. Now comes the important thing. Oxygen molecule weigths 16 times more than hydrogen. With air breathing missiles you can carry 8 times more fuel than in solid propellants. How the hell it is possible for the onyx size missile carry fuel for 1000 km+ range, if it need to carry mostly oxygen? Also air resistance is enormous at mach 8 to 10. When compared to mach 3 missile, air resistance has increased approximately 9 times due to the fact that air resistance will grow in square of the speed difference.
Arrow, please do the math by yourself.

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GarryB

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Post n°985

Re: 3M22 Zircon Hypersonic Cruise Missile

GarryB Sun Dec 08, 2024 12:39 pm

The Kh-15 is a 1.5 ton mach 5 solid propellant rocket that carries a nuclear warhead and has a range of 300km with an air launch from a strategic bomber.

Zircon might be as heavy as 3 tons but also travels twice as fast and three to five times further with a surface launch.

The west can't even make a missile better than the Kh-31 let alone Onyx, but a pointier Onyx was the secret all along.

Even Granit has a nose cover to protect its air intake in the tube and at launch... and likely conceal the fact that it is a ramjet powered missile.

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