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63 posters

    3M22 Zircon Hypersonic Cruise Missile

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    mnztr

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    Post  mnztr Fri May 21, 2021 4:39 am

    Hole wrote:You can´t park a satellite.

    Sure you can, geosynchronus orbit, although it may be too high too be useful for this sort of thing.
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    Post  GarryB Fri May 21, 2021 11:26 am

    You can park a satellite... but around the equator and it is really very very high... too high to be much use with optics.

    I rather suspect these tests will take place in the Northern fleet in the arctic ocean.... not somewhere easy for geostationary orbit satellites to observe.

    Note if you have a satellite dish then you are using a geostationary satellite... it goes around the equator at an altitude where it takes one day to go around the earth... meaning it effectively hovers in the air so you can point a fixed satellite dish at it and not have to move the dish to follow the satellite.
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    Daniel_Admassu

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    Post  Daniel_Admassu Fri May 21, 2021 2:00 pm

    Optical reconnaissance satellites are usually operated between ~500 and ~2000 km and circle the earth numerous times a day. They can also be placed at any desired inclination to cover any territory.

    The thing is, their orbit is precisely known to everyone and thus any activity can be scheduled to avoid them. They are best used to snoop on stationery assets.
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    mnztr

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    Post  mnztr Fri May 21, 2021 5:45 pm

    Daniel_Admassu wrote:Optical reconnaissance satellites are usually operated between ~500 and ~2000 km and circle the earth numerous times a day. They can also be placed at any desired inclination to cover any territory.

    The thing is, their orbit is precisely known to everyone and thus any activity can be scheduled to avoid them. They are best used to snoop on stationery assets.

    They do have satellites that can manuver, but repositioning uses a LOT of fuel and there are only so many cycles they can do. Its crazy expensive for each reposition. But I think in this case the Russians will want the US to monitor the test and show that it works...if it does. The Russians also played a lot of games with decoys and repositioning of assets to cause the USA to inflate their estimates in the past.
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    Post  Daniel_Admassu Fri May 21, 2021 6:08 pm

    mnztr wrote:
    Daniel_Admassu wrote:Optical reconnaissance satellites are usually operated between ~500 and ~2000 km and circle the earth numerous times a day. They can also be placed at any desired inclination to cover any territory.

    The thing is, their orbit is precisely known to everyone and thus any activity can be scheduled to avoid them. They are best used to snoop on stationery assets.

    They do have satellites that can manuver, but repositioning uses a LOT of fuel and there are only so many cycles they can do. Its crazy expensive for each reposition. But I think in this case the Russians will want the US to monitor the test and show that it works...if it does. The Russians also played a lot of games with decoys and repositioning of assets to cause the USA to inflate their estimates in the past.

    Satellites are not usually repositioned in orbit. The gravitational and angular momentum gradient is too steep for that. They are just put in an initial inclination by the carrier vehicle and they stay that way. What little propellant (like hydrazine) they carry is used to correct attitude errors and altitude loss due to trace atmosphere and solar wind pressure over its lifetime.

    But the advantage of an inclined orbit with respect to the equator is, since the earth rotates on its axis, the orbit traces a kind of helical rotating path over its sphere. This allows for surveillance of potentially the whole globe.

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    Post  GarryB Sat May 22, 2021 8:34 am

    It also creates a predictable timetable for when the satellite will be able to see things in a specific area.

    If you are interested in such things there is a website called Heavens Above, which tracks all sorts of satellites.

    www.heavens-above.com

    Click on the above link and then on the left hand side under configuration and below login it has a link to set your location.

    Click on that and use whatever method to specify your location and it and then on the main page again in the section titled Satellites under the title 10 day predictions for satellites of special interest... click on the ISS link and it will generate a 10 day chart for your location to observe the international space station as it flys over your location.

    The ISS is at about 350km altitude and orbits earth every 90 minutes, but depending on its flight path it might not go over your location in the next ten days.

    Note it shows visible passes so the sun needs to be shining on the ISS for it to be included in the list... it might pass your location early morning or late at night but it wont be both. Sometimes it will be visible twice on one day normally the same night or the same morning.

    At the top of the chart is the option to show all passes or just the visible ones... for observation the visible ones are the only ones worth bothering with.

    The columns for the chart are from left to right the day and then the brightness... note the lower the number the brighter it is... so minus 3.7 is much brighter than 0.4 or something. A full moon is something like minus 6, so minus 3.7 is a very bright venus type view.

    There are then three big columns... start, highest point, and end. Start is obviously when the station will become visible and it shows the time, direction and altitude from the horizon you should be looking to see it appear. I normally ignore the highest point, the end column shows the time and direction and altitude above the horizon when the station will enter shadow and no longer be visible.

    Depending on the angles and where you are it can be visible for up to 6 minutes at a time, but could easily not be visible at all as it passes over.

    On the main page of the site there is an image showing the location of the ISS over planet earth... it of course goes over during day time but it is not visible.

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    LMFS
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    Post  LMFS Sat Jul 10, 2021 9:55 am

    The source announced the imminent start of state tests of Zircon missiles.

    MOSCOW, July 10-RIA Novosti. State tests of hypersonic missiles "Zircon" will begin before the end of July, a source in the military-industrial complex told RIA Novosti.

    "As part of the launching state tests of the ship's missile system with the Zircon hypersonic missile, ground and sea targets will be fired from the Admiral Gorshkov frigate,"he said.
    This shooting will be the first launch of the Zircon this year and the fourth - from the Admiral Gorshkov for all time.
    Last year, according to the Defense Ministry, the frigate performed three missile launches: two at sea targets and one at a ground target.
    It is planned to complete the tests this year.

    https://ria.ru/20210710/tsirkon-1740694367.html

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    Post  LMFS Sun Jul 18, 2021 11:30 am

    State tests of the Zircon hypersonic missile to begin in August

    In the second half of August, flight design tests of the Zircon will begin from the Severodvinsk nuclear submarine, a TASS source in the military-industrial complex said.

    MOSCOW, July 18. / TASS /. State tests of the newest Zircon hypersonic missile from a surface launch vehicle will begin in August 2021. This was reported to TASS by a source in the military-industrial complex.

    "The first launch of Zircon within the framework of state tests from the frigate Admiral of the Soviet Union Fleet Gorshkov of the Northern Fleet is planned to be performed in the first half of August. In the second half of August, flight design tests of the Zircon will begin from the nuclear submarine Severodvinsk," he said. , having specified that earlier it was in the first case about May-June.

    As noted by the source, "Severodvinsk" will carry out the first test launch of "Zircon" from the surface position, but in both cases it is supposed to hit surface targets. According to another TASS source, in total, within the framework of state tests of the Zircon, four launches are to be performed from the Admiral Gorshkov. NPO Mashinostroyenia (part of the Tactical Missile Armament Corporation), where the Zircons were developed and produced, did not comment on this information.

    https://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/11928483

    This is the real "Checkmate" pirat

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    Post  x_54_u43 Mon Jul 19, 2021 8:53 am



    No way this is Onyx with that flight profile.

    All the naysayers saying it was Onyx launch should should eat crow(flamming and Arrow), Zircon just uses the same launch and aiming system with the blow-off aiming cap.

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    owais.usmani

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    Post  owais.usmani Mon Jul 19, 2021 9:14 am

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    Isos
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    Post  Isos Mon Jul 19, 2021 9:41 am

    How did you embbed the twit in your post ? It wasn't possible till now.
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    Post  Kiko Mon Jul 19, 2021 11:36 am

    Further details:

    The frigate "Admiral Gorshkov" successfully hit the target with the missile "Zircon", 19.07.2021.

    "Admiral Gorshkov" successfully fired at a ground target with a hypersonic missile.

    MOSCOW, July 19 - RIA Novosti. The Russian frigate "Admiral Gorshkov" successfully fired a hypersonic "Zircon" at a ground target, the Defense Ministry said.

    The tests took place in the Arctic : the rocket was fired from the White Sea at a target in the Barents Sea, it covered more than 350 kilometers, the flight speed was about seven Machs. The tactical and technical characteristics of the weapon were confirmed.

    The Zircon missiles are capable of speeds up to Mach nine (nine times the speed of sound, more than ten thousand kilometers per hour), the declared range is over a thousand kilometers.

    They are planned to arm surface and submarine ships - both promising and under construction.

    https://ria.ru/20210719/tsirkon-1741795430.html

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    Post  GarryB Mon Jul 19, 2021 11:47 am

    No way this is Onyx with that flight profile.

    All the naysayers saying it was Onyx launch should should eat crow(flamming and Arrow), Zircon just uses the same launch and aiming system with the blow-off aiming cap.

    Onyx is very similar to Zircon and would have a similar propulsion set up, the main difference is that it has a scramjet instead of a ramjet which requires different air intakes etc.

    The near vertical climb in the video above could be used by Onyx to maximise the height at which it flys to its target, but it would be more useful for Zircon to get as high as possible as quickly as possible.

    The missile that leaves the tube looks to be different from Onyx too.... but denial is a place you can get stuck in and it is not healthy at all really... Smile

    How did you embbed the twit in your post ? It wasn't possible till now.

    The new button next to the Youtube button that says "embed content".

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    hoom

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    Post  hoom Mon Jul 19, 2021 2:51 pm

    In the close-up you can see the top of the missile necks in significantly before bulging at the tip where the boost tipper thing is, definitely more than P-800/Onyx does
    3M22 Zircon Hypersonic Cruise Missile - Page 28 VYNbyH1

    compare with an Onyx which is essentially parallel sided all the way up
    3M22 Zircon Hypersonic Cruise Missile - Page 28 Main-qimg-b59accdc6d1bfbfcc1b0b8ad1b26c1d6

    In the wide shot you can see there is a booster then some form of wings at the base of the main missile about where the tail fins of Onyx are, again clear narrowing below the boost tipper thing
    3M22 Zircon Hypersonic Cruise Missile - Page 28 V23GbH1

    After the boost tipper thing separates there does look like a truncated triangular & asymmetrical tip consistent with a waverider body & it persists in looking like that over a bunch of frames, never really looks like a symmetrical cone
    3M22 Zircon Hypersonic Cruise Missile - Page 28 Ioq0P3Z
    3M22 Zircon Hypersonic Cruise Missile - Page 28 45FTNeR

    I'd semi-convinced myself that it must be either a developed Onyx or an Iskander/Kinzhal built with a booster body compliant with the narrower UKSK max diameter but with that asymmetric tip its looking hard to see as anything but the air-breathing waverider its generally been rumored to be.

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    Arrow

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    Post  Arrow Mon Jul 19, 2021 4:17 pm

    Finally, the quality allows us to see that Cirkon is made in waverider technology. The rocket engine accelerates for about 12 seconds. This is longer than in the case of the rocket booster from Onyx.

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    PapaDragon
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    Post  PapaDragon Mon Jul 19, 2021 8:39 pm

    hoom wrote:3M22 Zircon Hypersonic Cruise Missile - Page 28 45FTNeR

    We now have confirmation that it's pointy  Cool

    3M22 Zircon Hypersonic Cruise Missile - Page 28 77828_06_elon-musk-made-the-starship-nose-more-pointy-because-of-dictator

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    Isos
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    Post  Isos Mon Jul 19, 2021 8:54 pm

    It's a scramjet. What were you expecting but a pointy nose ?
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    Post  PapaDragon Mon Jul 19, 2021 8:59 pm

    Isos wrote:It's a scramjet. What were you expecting but a pointy nose ?

    It's called humour

    Look it up

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    Post  ALAMO Mon Jul 19, 2021 11:18 pm

    PapaDragon wrote:
    Isos wrote:It's a scramjet. What were you expecting but a pointy nose ?

    It's called humour

    Look it up


    Laughing Laughing Laughing
    My enemies won't be scared of me, and I ain't get this knowledge from a cartoon!
    Isos
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    Post  Isos Tue Jul 20, 2021 12:25 am

    PapaDragon wrote:
    Isos wrote:It's a scramjet. What were you expecting but a pointy nose ?

    It's called humour

    Look it up


    Yeah I though your first sentence was a quote of someone else saying it seriously and answered. I had a bug it seems.

    I undersrood your image was humour Very Happy .
    Isos
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    Post  Isos Tue Jul 20, 2021 1:57 am

    Seems like Tzirkon is ready.

    Jack Detsch
    @JackDetsch
    Pentagon spokes John Kirby calls Russian test of a nuclear-capable Zircon hypersonic missile "destabilizing."

    "You'd have to ask Vladimir Putin why he's chosen to go that route."

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    Post  Lurk83 Tue Jul 20, 2021 2:06 am

    Isos wrote:Seems like Tzirkon is ready.

    Jack Detsch
    @JackDetsch
    Pentagon spokes John Kirby calls Russian test of a nuclear-capable Zircon hypersonic missile "destabilizing."

    "You'd have to ask Vladimir Putin why he's chosen to go that route."

    Hahaha is this a joke?

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    Post  kvs Tue Jul 20, 2021 2:46 am

    America is in its essence is destabilizing. These yaps should just shut the fcuk up.

    How dare those Russian snow-ni**ers give us a hard time in our attempts to turn them into our serfs in our colony.

    So where are the deployed US equivalents? Or is the fig leaf story that the US doesn't need such systems and is
    not about "destabilization".

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    Post  PapaDragon Tue Jul 20, 2021 3:56 am

    Isos wrote:Seems like Tzirkon is ready.

    Jack Detsch
    @JackDetsch
    Pentagon spokes John Kirby calls Russian test of a nuclear-capable Zircon hypersonic missile "destabilizing."

    "You'd have to ask Vladimir Putin why he's chosen to go that route."

    Excuse me, what? Suspect

    It's just a really fast missile, you'd think they test launched Buravestnik or something with this tone...

    Insecure much? God knows how much they will whine when Buravestnik is out and about



    kvs wrote:... Russian snow-ni**ers ...

    This is awesome, I'll be reusing this lol1


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    Isos
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    Post  Isos Tue Jul 20, 2021 7:25 am

    Burevesnik is unlikely to be used against them contrary to Tzirkon. And they can't counter it.

    Their biggest fear is to see it exported.

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