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    3M22 Zircon Hypersonic Cruise Missile

    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB on Sun Oct 18, 2020 2:57 am

    Three dimensional trajectories represented in two dimensions can look strange, but such extreme manouvering likely rendered the flight speed a fraction of what it started out as being likely actually making the warhead easier to intercept... not harder.
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    Arrow

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    Post  Arrow on Sun Oct 18, 2020 9:20 am

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    The-thing-next-door
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    Post  The-thing-next-door on Sun Oct 18, 2020 11:53 am

    GarryB wrote:Three dimensional trajectories represented in two dimensions can look strange, but such extreme manouvering likely rendered the flight speed a fraction of what it started out as being likely actually making the warhead easier to intercept... not harder.

    I would imagine that it would need an engine the likes of which the world has never seen to pull a maneuver like that at hypersonic speeds.

    That thing could not be moving more than a couple of hundred metes per second at which point a quick thinking soldier with an Igla could shoot it down.

    I suppose it could be going supersonic if the photograph was taken from close to the target and the actual maneuver happened over a much longer distance than the photograph would have you believe, but even then I doubt it could be hypersonic.
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    mnztr

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    Post  mnztr on Sun Oct 18, 2020 8:10 pm

    The-thing-next-door wrote:

    I would imagine that it would need an engine the likes of which the world has never seen to pull a maneuver like that at hypersonic speeds.

    That thing could not be moving more than a couple of hundred metes per second at which point a quick thinking soldier with an Igla could shoot it down.

    I suppose it could be going supersonic if the photograph was taken from close to the target and the actual maneuver happened over a much longer distance than the photograph would have you believe, but even then I doubt it could be hypersonic.

    It has no engine, you have no perception of how large the radius of those manuvers is, and it will probably be capable of 20-30G's. The illumination is from the heat of reentry so probably still more then MACH 5 ..

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    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB on Mon Oct 19, 2020 4:32 am

    It could remain heated for quite some time after it is subsonic.... the SR-71 had to orbit its landing airfield quite a few times to cool down before it landed otherwise its outer surface would be too hot for the ground crew...... being in the vacuum of space would probably cool the reentry vehicles down quite a bit so flash heating them with friction might scorch the outside but the insides would need to be kept neither hot nor cold for the nuclear warhead to function properly.

    I would imagine that it would need an engine the likes of which the world has never seen to pull a maneuver like that at hypersonic speeds.

    Older MARVs didn't have scramjets or ramjets for manouvering... have you never heard of a side thruster rocket motor?

    It allows the object to pull rather extreme manouvers... with enormous drag...

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    Post  The-thing-next-door on Mon Oct 19, 2020 11:09 am

    GarryB wrote:

    Older MARVs didn't have scramjets or ramjets for manouvering... have you never heard of a side thruster rocket motor?

    It allows the object to pull rather extreme manouvers... with enormous drag...


    It allows for minor course corrections, not changes in direction.

    A spacecraft can use its thrusters to sychronise its orbit with another craft in a similar orbit, not change the direction of its orbit.


    It is very difficult to change the direction in which an extremely fast moving object is going, though making minor adjustments is easy, I find it hard to believe that a MARV could perform the maneuvers necessary to escape the maximum course correction of an ABM missile.
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    Post  Arrow on Mon Oct 19, 2020 7:13 pm

    Interesting interview from 2017. And mention of hypersonic missiles and scramjet engines.

    https://www.interfax.ru/interview/577399

    Interestingly, it was said that Russia has not yet refined the scramjet engines and has not solved the problems related to this drive.
    Then what is the power of the Zircon, which was already tested in 2017. Ramjet engines are not suitable for the speed of 8M Rolling Eyes

    The use of a ramjet (ramjet engine - IF), I think, is not entirely justified on military equipment. What is hypersonic direct-flow flight? This is the only motor that can reach speeds above 3 mach. In the co-current, the air flow enters the chamber at tremendous speed, where fuel is injected, and it must burn. But can you imagine what kind of process there is, there is continuous turbulence. When subsonic combustion, everything is in order there. And here it is not clear what is happening. A very complicated process. Of course, sooner or later, measures will be invented to level this flow, etc. But all this is very expensive. So far, we have not found a technical solution to this problem. wrote:
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB on Tue Oct 20, 2020 3:58 am

    It allows for minor course corrections, not changes in direction.

    A spacecraft can use its thrusters to sychronise its orbit with another craft in a similar orbit, not change the direction of its orbit.

    Why would the use of side thruster rocket motors for space craft be anything relevant or related to side thruster rocket motors for a reentry vehicle?

    You do know they are two totally different things right?

    They were used on both because they are the only options, but on spacecraft they are normally liquid propellent rocket motors because they needed throttle and thrust length control because they were manouvering rockets for fine control where wings and fins have no effect.

    For reentry vehicles they are radial solid rocket motors on a spinning reentry vehicle that can be fired sequentially as the rocket motor spins to the correct angle to perform a hard turn or a small adjustment.


    It is very difficult to change the direction in which an extremely fast moving object is going, though making minor adjustments is easy, I find it hard to believe that a MARV could perform the maneuvers necessary to escape the maximum course correction of an ABM missile.

    The aerodynamic shape of a reentry vehicle could be used to effect a turn, but Rockets had to initiate it by turning the reentry body that way.

    Hardly unique.... look at the Dragon ATGM... it used solid fuelled rockets for its entire flight to steer and keep moving forward in flight towards the target.

    Interestingly, it was said that Russia has not yet refined the scramjet engines and has not solved the problems related to this drive.

    They have been working on scramjet motors for decades... in 2017 they were clearly not ready to say how far they had come with scramjet motors.

    At the time the Americans were claiming the lead in this technology... now they are working hard to catch up... why admit in 2017 that Zircon is close to testing... it would only speed up the American programme and get them more funding....

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