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    3M22 Zircon Hypersonic Cruise Missile

    magnumcromagnon
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    Post  magnumcromagnon Sun Sep 13, 2020 5:19 pm

    Isos wrote:https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/GQM-163_Coyote

    They use the Coyote target missile that goes at mach 2.6 at very low altitude and mach 3-4 at high altitude.

    It simulates russian supersonic missiles much better than the old soviet missiles used as a target simulate western missiles during russian tests.

    Meanwhile they have this target drone in service, but their navy has lacked all forms of supersonic AshM's in service....doesn't that strike people quite odd? pwnd That's like having the ability to shoot down satellites (ASAT) but completely lack the ability to launch satellites in to orbit! clown lol1 Those drones also lack swarming wolf-pack algorithms that Federation AshM's have, despite the fact that Uncle Sham has advertised ad nauseam about their ability to create swarming drones. pwnd Embarassed  They also lack the ECM capabilities of Federation AshM's, such as reflecting their radar image off the surface of the ocean.Razz They also lack their gimbaled thrust vectoring exhaust nozzles found on Federation AshM's. Wink They also lack the titanium armor some Federation AshM's have. No Or the range. unshaven Or the obscuring stealth elements of their launch vehicles that Federation systems like Bastion and Bal come equipped with. dunno
    Isos
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    Post  Isos Sun Sep 13, 2020 5:25 pm

    What do you know about western missiles ? You think they keep improving them for over 70 years to just to add few tens of km ?

    Built in test equipment in the ships can simulate even more a typical russian attack, not perfectly but that's still better than what russia does buy using outdated coastal missile as a target to test its defences.

    BTW, Wikicrapia has total BS numbers. It claims the Onyx does only Mach 2. WTF. That would qualify it as a marginally supersonic weapon.
    NATzO propagandists need to stop drinking their own retard koolaid.

    http://roe.ru/eng/catalog/naval-systems/shipborne-weapons/yakhont/

    Official number. 680m/s at low altitude which is mach 2. Maybe you should stop drinking your own propaganda.

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    Singular_Transform
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    Post  Singular_Transform Sun Sep 13, 2020 8:55 pm

    Isos wrote:What do you know about western missiles ? You think they keep improving them for over 70 years to just to add few tens of km ?

    Built in test equipment in the ships can simulate even more a typical russian attack, not perfectly but that's still better than what russia does buy using outdated coastal missile as a target to test its defences.

    BTW, Wikicrapia has total BS numbers. It claims the Onyx does only Mach 2. WTF. That would qualify it as a marginally supersonic weapon.
    NATzO propagandists need to stop drinking their own retard koolaid.

    http://roe.ru/eng/catalog/naval-systems/shipborne-weapons/yakhont/

    Official number. 680m/s at low altitude which is mach 2. Maybe you should stop drinking your own propaganda.

    It translate to match 5+ at 24+ km high.

    And it is most possible the full fuel load speed, with partial load it is higher.

    And of course the USA military is the single one that share false performance numbers, the Russians gives correct data.
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    Post  GarryB Mon Sep 14, 2020 6:36 am

    They use the Coyote target missile that goes at mach 2.6 at very low altitude and mach 3-4 at high altitude.

    It simulates russian supersonic missiles much better than the old soviet missiles used as a target simulate western missiles during russian tests.

    It is essentially a Kh-31 attached to the same booster rocket used for the Standard naval SAMs in the long range versions.

    The Coyote target was created after they got their hands on Kh-31 and is a copy... and mach 4 my arse... why would they describe it as a mach 3 target if it can go mach 4?

    Mach 3 is the speed the Kh-31 moves at BTW... perhaps mach 4 is to pretend they made any changes to it at all...

    The original competition for a new target missile was written specifically in the hopes of getting the Russians to offer Moskit, which is what they really wanted to get their hands on. Russians weren't that stupid... they offered an early model Kh-31 knowing it met all the criteria of the competition and was superior to the proposed American alternatives that existed mainly on paper.

    It was like Russian rocket engines... they were not happy buying them because they were sure American technology and knowhow could do better, but there wasn't anything better.

    The solution has been a copy of the Soviet missile mounted on a standard US solid rocket booster used for long range Naval SAMs for the past few decades...

    Their target used for training is their most potent anti ship weapon...

    Official number. 680m/s at low altitude which is mach 2. Maybe you should stop drinking your own propaganda.

    For the export model. The domestic model will have other penetration equipment like jammers and decoys it can deploy and of course it will be manouvering... and most likely the warhead will be armoured.

    It translate to match 5+ at 24+ km high.

    With new high energy fuel then possibly, but not likely deployed yet.
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    Post  Arrow Wed Sep 16, 2020 11:56 am

    https://www.militarynews.ru/story.asp?rid=0&nid=537804&lang=RU
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    Post  Arrow Wed Oct 07, 2020 10:25 am

    ttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L2hDIPFdnDA

    But looks like Onyx missile. This is probably Onyx.
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    Post  hoom Wed Oct 07, 2020 11:20 am

    Does look like an Onyx launch.
    There has been some suggestions that Zircon is pretty closely related to Onyx, wouldn't be too surprising if the launch boost system is very similar even if the terminal section is significantly different.
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    Post  Isos Wed Oct 07, 2020 11:34 am

    3M22 Zircon Hypersonic Cruise Missile - Page 18 Smarts10

    It looks like an oniks. Just the last part it doesn't go at 90° but upwards maybe it's just for the high high trajectory.

    The youtube account isn't official. Very unlikely that a random guy will share it...
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    Post  Hole Wed Oct 07, 2020 11:47 am

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    Post  Hole Wed Oct 07, 2020 11:48 am

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    Post  Hole Wed Oct 07, 2020 11:49 am

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    Isos
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    Post  Isos Wed Oct 07, 2020 11:55 am

    I think he is right. Looks like an oniks launch and then kalibr launch wheb its up. The real footage was not shared.



    Rob Lee
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    As others have noted, the missile from the footage looks different than expected. It is possible they spliced together footage of an Oniks or Kalibr launch for the close footage and the Tsirkon for the footage from farther away. 4/
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    Post  LMFS Wed Oct 07, 2020 1:18 pm

    Others say it is the other way around, the close up is the Tsirkon and the footage from farther away the Oniks... reality is no-one in the open sources has seen the Tsirkon so it is only wild, unfounded speculation. Who says the missile has to resemble the X-51?
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    Post  Arrow Wed Oct 07, 2020 2:03 pm

    the text shows that the missile flies 450 km in 4.5 minutes. This gives an average speed of only 1.6 km / s
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    Post  ult Wed Oct 07, 2020 2:19 pm

    Arrow wrote:the text shows that the missile flies 450 km in 4.5 minutes. This gives an average speed of only 1.6 km / s

    It starts from 0 and reaches Mach 8. Ever heard about math? Laughing

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    Post  lyle6 Wed Oct 07, 2020 3:14 pm

    Arrow wrote:ttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L2hDIPFdnDA

    But looks like Onyx missile. This is probably Onyx.
    The wide shot shows a much more intense plume than I've ever seen on the Kalibr and Onyx missiles, and then there's that massive flash like another rocket stage kicking in. Whatever it is it doesn't look like any Kalibr or Onyx launch.

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    Post  Isos Wed Oct 07, 2020 3:34 pm

    So it flies at 28km in altitude. A bit like kh-22. Kh-32 flies at 40km. That's well above any AD range.



    Rob Lee
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    Gerasimov said the Tsirkon was launched from the White Sea at a naval target in the Barents Sea, "The missile covered a distance of 450km. The maximum altitude of its trajectory was 28km. The flight lasted 4.5 minutes." 5/

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    Post  George1 Wed Oct 07, 2020 4:13 pm

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    Post  magnumcromagnon Wed Oct 07, 2020 4:42 pm

    The tip might have a protective cap to prevent debris from falling in the scram jet air duct.

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    Post  mnztr Wed Oct 07, 2020 7:55 pm

    Isos wrote:So it flies at 28km in altitude. A bit like kh-22. Kh-32 flies at 40km. That's well above any AD range.



    Rob Lee
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    Gerasimov said the Tsirkon was launched from the White Sea at a naval target in the Barents Sea, "The missile covered a distance of 450km. The maximum altitude of its trajectory was 28km. The flight lasted 4.5 minutes." 5/

    That is just under 6000 KPH average. which is stunning. Top speed has to be close to 8-9000 kph
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    Post  Hole Wed Oct 07, 2020 8:18 pm

    magnumcromagnon wrote:The tip might have a protective cap to prevent debris from falling in the scram jet air duct.

    It will also be launched from subs, a protective cap would be very useful for this method.

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    Post  tanino Wed Oct 07, 2020 8:36 pm

    Knowing that even a simple Bujan-M 21631 corvette can hit after only 270 seconds at Mach 8 the threat would change the tactic. Respect and wonder.
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    Post  mnztr Wed Oct 07, 2020 9:29 pm

    tanino wrote:Knowing that even a simple Bujan-M 21631 corvette can hit after only 270 seconds at Mach 8 the threat would change the tactic. Respect and wonder.

    Corvettes? What happens is subs become incredibly dangerous. They can probably even make a SAM version of this missile to take out sub hunting planes. Imagine a destoryer has to worry about a sub getting drone or satellite intelligence knowing a missile can hit them in under 3 mins from almost 500 km...WOW.

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    Post  Arrow Wed Oct 07, 2020 11:48 pm

    lyle6 wrote:
    Arrow wrote:ttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L2hDIPFdnDA

    But looks like Onyx missile. This is probably Onyx.
    The wide shot shows a much more intense plume than I've ever seen on the Kalibr and Onyx missiles, and then there's that massive flash like another rocket stage kicking in. Whatever it is it doesn't look like any Kalibr or Onyx launch.

    It looks identical to the Onyx launch.
    https://youtu.be/WFV3FUlTzas

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    Post  GarryB Thu Oct 08, 2020 5:49 am

    Both Onyx and Zircon use ramjet engines so both will have fairings over the front of them that cover and protect their air intakes before and during launch.

    The engine thrust of the missiles is fixed but obviously fully variable, just like any jet powered airplane.

    The first 450km of its flight it will be operating at max weight with full fuel tanks... hitting a target 450km away means likely hitting the target with half full fuel tanks.

    Targets that are further away will use up more of that fuel and will allow the missile to accelerate.

    A jet engine limits the speed of an aircraft so a high bypass turbofan like on an airliner or transport plane will never become supersonic no matter what flight weight or fuel status it gets to in its flight, but a supersonic combustion ramjet has no practical upper speed limit so as it burns fuel it gets lighter and lighter so it should get faster and faster too... of course as it gets lighter it can reduce its throttle a bit to maintain speed and then as it gets to the radar horizon of the target ramp up to full thrust and accelerate to max speed as it approaches the target.

    28km is not a very high operational altitude which would also effect top speed as well.


    It looks identical to the Onyx launch.

    It should... gas capsule blows it out of the tube and into the air where a nose mounted rocket thruster turns the missile towards the targets direction and then counter thrusters stop it from rolling too far and flying into the ground while the main solid rocket engine lights up a charge and rocket thruster jettisons the nose cap covering the main ramjet engine intake, while the main solid rocket motor lights up and accelerates the missile on its way towards its target....

    The difference is that Onyx (and Yakhont and Brahmos) have a round air intake with a pointy nose with a radar in it sticking out the centre with a ramjet engine... once the solid rocket engine burns out the guts is ejected and the ramjet starts up to accelerate the missile as it climbs and accelerates towards the target.

    The Zircon has a more sophisticated likely square or rectangular air intake with a pointy nose with a radar and a scramjet motor... once the solid rocket motor burns out the Scramjet motor powers up and accelerates the missile to much higher altitudes and higher flight speeds.


    As the ramjet gets faster and faster it has to constrict the airflow going into the engine so when fuel is added it burns subsonically... in the scramjet the airflow is carefully controlled to allow the air to flow through the hot section at supersonic speeds and to burn fuel there generating much faster exhaust air and much more thrust at high speeds... meaning it can accelerate much faster and to much greater speeds.

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