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    3M22 Zircon Hypersonic Cruise Missile

    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB on Mon Nov 18, 2019 10:07 am

    The thing with hypesonics is they are fiendishly difficult to defend against.

    I agree, they are hard enough to track because they are moving so fast, but any change in trajectory needs to be measured precisely and because of the high flight speed the lead needed for an intercept can be enormous but a minor shift in trajectory can shift the point of interception several kilometres and then half a second later another turn can shift it several kilometres again... pretty soon you don't have enough energy or time to make it to the new interception point in time to intercept and sometimes you get to the interception point but the target has manouvered and is going to be somewhere else and you can't move from where you are to where you need to be in time to be there when the target is there... if you get there too early you can't just stop and wait for it to arrive...

    Even if you can perfect a powerful laser, the sea level distance to horizon is less then 3 seconds at hypersonic speed.

    The front of a hypersonic missile will be designed to withstand enormous temperatures and a simple design option could be laser transparent materials with a coloured fluid inside... the laser would pass through the outer material and boil the fluid... the fluid could be fuel on its way to the engine so normally in flight getting heated by friction gets it very hot so injection into the scramjet and burning it makes it even more effective high energy fuel... a laser heating it up further should make it more efficient as a fuel by adding even more heat energy to it... or it could just be some inert liquid absorbing energy from the laser for a few minutes...


    Add to that the difficulty inherent in accurately tracking the incoming threat and directing a laser sufficiently accurate to put beam on target and pump sufficient heat into the target to overcome its already formidable ablative heat shields and achieve a kill in the VERY narrow time window available.

    Now consider trying to do this against 5-10 flying a wolfpack....

    Or perhaps the first launched weapon climbs to 100K metres and detonates a nuclear bomb powered EMP device to make surface ships take a nap and ionise the atmosphere for an hour or two while the rest of the missiles are on their way.... Surprise!

    The ones with the biggest and most expensive assets will have the biggest headache. And the USN will just be a collection of floating targets.

    Imagine a Russian corvette with 16 Zircon missiles sailing down the Med... it will be able to sink any ship or hit land targets within 1,000km of its position... I thought the Brits were taking the piss when they sent ships to escort Russian frigates down the English Channel but maybe they are protecting the UK from anhilation... there is no reason to assume the warheads wont be nukes.... Twisted Evil
    dino00
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    Post  dino00 on Fri Nov 22, 2019 2:19 pm

    Russia plans new trials of Tsirkon hypersonic missile before yearend — source

    The tests will take place at a naval range of the Northern Fleet, the source specified


    MOSCOW, November 22. /TASS/. New tests of the latest Tsirkon hypersonic missile will take place at a naval range of the Northern Fleet before the end of the year, a source in defense circles of Russia’s North-Western Federal District told TASS on Friday.

    "A Tsirkon missile is expected to be launched from the White Sea before the end of the year. The specific date will be set as soon as the technical equipment is ready," the source said.

    Specialists are now making a special stand based on a pontoon, from which the latest missile will be test-fired, the source added.

    The Research and Production Association of Machine-Building, which is developing the Tsirkon, declined to comment on the missile’s planned trials.

    https://tass.com/defense/1091759
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    Post  Arrow on Sun Dec 08, 2019 4:09 pm

    What pontoon? Earlier they wrote that the test will take place from the frigate 22350.
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    Post  PapaDragon on Sun Dec 08, 2019 4:20 pm

    Arrow wrote:What pontoon? Earlier they wrote that the test will take place from the frigate 22350.

    I know why but I am not wasting explanation on you

    It's simple really

    thegopnik
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    Post  thegopnik on Fri Dec 13, 2019 3:22 am

    https://qr.ae/TZd2qA My answer post high-lights the capabilities of the Zircon missile.

    1. how they solve the communication problem with Zircon.

    2. The atmosphere calculator shows that the Zircon has reached fire-control frequencies but with the hope of one more mach speed added over mach 9 it can handle frequencies at 20ghz or lower because the plasma frequency is higher than the lower radio frequency where the electrons change the property of lower frequencies and cause weak radar returns.

    3. easy to follow explanation why they chose speed over plasma generators, and the reason why the plasma density with electrons effects electromagnetic radiation of waves.
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    Post  dino00 on Tue Dec 24, 2019 1:29 pm

    Putin said Russia is developing a ground-based version of the Zircon hypersonic missile

    MOSCOW, December 24. / TASS /. Russia is working on a ground-based version of the Zircon sea-based hypersonic missile. This was stated by Russian President Vladimir Putin at the final board of the military department.

    "We have plans to work on other systems. <...> On the land and sea-based hypersonic Zircon rockets," Putin said.

    https://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/7414553
    PapaDragon
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    Post  PapaDragon on Tue Dec 24, 2019 1:55 pm

    dino00 wrote:Putin said Russia is developing a ground-based version of the Zircon hypersonic missile

    MOSCOW, December 24. / TASS /. Russia is working on a ground-based version of the Zircon sea-based hypersonic missile. This was stated by Russian President Vladimir Putin at the final board of the military department.

    "We have plans to work on other systems. <...> On the land and sea-based hypersonic Zircon rockets," Putin said.

    https://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/7414553


    To surprise of absolutely no one given that INF is kaput

    This will be sweet addition to collection of nuke missiles pointed at Euros should any of them ever be dumb enough to allow Pentagon to park their new euromissile on their soil


    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB on Wed Dec 25, 2019 12:37 pm

    Given the range of these weapons missiles based on the far east can target the US too...
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    Post  PapaDragon on Wed Dec 25, 2019 3:13 pm

    GarryB wrote:Given the range of these weapons missiles based on the far east can target the US too...

    1000km ballpark of Zircon is not exactly ideal for mainland USA

    It would need something more fancy for that like Kinzhal with booster stage or RS-26 Rubezh

    No shortage of options now


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    Post  Hole on Wed Dec 25, 2019 8:40 pm

    As far as I know Zirkon was always intended to replace Onyx in the Bastion coastal defence systems = ground-based.
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB on Thu Dec 26, 2019 6:28 am


    1000km ballpark of Zircon is not exactly ideal for mainland USA

    It would need something more fancy for that like Kinzhal with booster stage or RS-26 Rubezh

    No shortage of options now

    Sorry, I was meaning with the INF treaty gone they can have IRBMs with ranges up to 5,000km range that are not counted as strategic weapons that, when based in the far east or even in the far north could reach targets in the us as well as the middle east and europe and asia if necessary.

    Imagine a land based variant where the Zircon missile sits in a tube with two extra missile bodies each side and with main wings and a tail wing surface that uses a solid rocket booster to get airborne and then flys a subsonic speeds at medium altitude for a few thousand kms before launching the Zircon which then climbs to operational altitude and accelerates to high speed for the last 1,000-2,000kms of the flight path to the target... as the original platform burns fuel and gets lighter it will get faster and be able to climb to higher and higher altitudes for the launch... which should be beneficial in terms of the range of the payload that is the Zircon.

    Of course in its primary role 1,000km range is already plenty so developing such a booster carrier system is probably a waste of time and resources... you could scratch build a new weapon with much better performance of course...
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    Post  Arrow on Mon Dec 30, 2019 10:14 am

    ussia plans new trials of Tsirkon hypersonic missile before yearend — source wrote:

    So we have the end of the year. There is no information about any Zircon tests. There are two options
    Test canceled
    The test took place but ended in failure so there is nothing to give information.
    Big_Gazza
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    Post  Big_Gazza on Mon Dec 30, 2019 12:51 pm

    Arrow wrote:

    So we have the end of the year. There is no information about any Zircon tests. There are two options
    Test canceled
    The test took place but ended in failure so there is nothing to give information.

    third option.

    It's none of NATO's fucking business, so the Russian Military tests in secret and gives them squat.   Twisted Evil
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    Post  Arrow on Mon Dec 30, 2019 3:14 pm

    o the Russian Military tests in secret and gives them squat wrote:

    Of course, that's why they wrote for a month that at the end of the year there would be a Zircon test from the 22350 frigate Laughing
    Isos
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    Post  Isos on Mon Dec 30, 2019 4:27 pm

    Arrow wrote:

    Of course, that's why they wrote for a month that at the end of the year there would be a Zircon test from the 22350 frigate Laughing

    What do you know about if it was tested or not ? AFAIK Gorshkov sailed with two containers that seemed to be zirkon.

    Anyway the missile is still being tested so if it doesn't work they will correct it. That's why there are tests. 2020 is not a deadline. They will put it into service once it is ready.
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    Post  GarryB on Tue Dec 31, 2019 2:15 am

    Of course, that's why they wrote for a month that at the end of the year there would be a Zircon test from the 22350 frigate

    Testing what though.

    Was it a full test to hit a ground or sea target, or was it a launch test to make sure the booster rocket cleared the launcher and the missile operated normally in the launch phase?

    You might plan to have a shit before you go to work in the morning, but one morning you might be sitting there and nothing is happening.... oh no... your plans failed... are you going to shoot yourself?

    Perhaps you need to look up the definition of what plan means.

    In twenty years time when it is sinking US carriers and ships I doubt the sailors on those ships will be thinking this missile is crap because it wasn't tested in 2019 on a frigate like they promised....
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    Post  thegopnik on Tue Dec 31, 2019 3:07 am

    https://navalnews.net/russian-developers-to-increase-the-speed-of-zircon-missile-over-10-mach/

    Title is self explanatory

    Now the plasma density will be enough to absorb fire control frequencies. I knew this was eventually going to happen now time for newer range estimates later. cheers
    Big_Gazza
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    Post  Big_Gazza on Tue Dec 31, 2019 7:16 am

    Arrow wrote:

    Of course, that's why they wrote for a month that at the end of the year there would be a Zircon test from the 22350 frigate Laughing

    Who wrote it? The Russians are masters of dezinformatsiya, so if you want to be an idiot and ascribe gospel truth to everything that is written in Russian media then pls do so. We'd appreciate however that you cease your endless nonsensical blabberings...
    magnumcromagnon
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    Post  magnumcromagnon on Thu Feb 27, 2020 11:36 am

    It became known about the first tests of the Zircon hypersonic missile from the ship

    3M22 Zircon Hypersonic Cruise Missile - Page 14 1582777424_39


    It became known about conducting new tests of hypersonic weapons in Russia. We are talking about tests of the Zircon hypersonic anti-ship missile, capable of destroying almost any surface ships, including aircraft carriers.

    The TASS information service, citing sources in the defense structures, writes that the newest hypersonic weapons - the Zircon missile - were first tested from the side of the ship. The admiral Gorshkov frigate belonging to project 22350 is used as a carrier of the new generation of test missile weapons. It is added that the tests were carried out in January.

    The Zircon was reportedly tested at a special naval training ground in the Barents Sea. The 3M22 cruise missile was not used against a sea target, but against a ground target. She successfully hit this target, which was at that time on the training ground of the Northern Urals. It is noted that a hypersonic missile covered more than 500 km.

    Recall that initially it was reported about the range of the Zircon in 500 km. Now there is evidence that hypersonic Raman scattering can travel up to 1000 km, at certain sites developing a speed of 8-10 M (sound speeds).

    It is known that the next series of tests for the Zircon SCR will be firing from a submarine. On what kind of submarine will be equipped with a hypersonic missile for conducting test firing, not yet reported.

    https://topwar.ru/168367-stalo-izvestno-o-pervyh-ispytanij-giperzvukovoj-rakety-cirkon-s-borta-korablja.html
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    Post  Arrow on Fri Feb 28, 2020 9:27 am

    Only 500 km during the test. Not too much. Perhaps the previous statements with a range of 500 km are true. Although WWP said that it has a range of over 1000km Rolling Eyes
    magnumcromagnon
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    Post  magnumcromagnon on Fri Feb 28, 2020 9:38 am

    Arrow wrote:Only 500 km during the test. Not too much. Perhaps the previous statements with a range of 500 km are true. Although WWP said that it has a range of over 1000km Rolling Eyes
    It clearly states more than 500km. Razz

    "It is noted that a hypersonic missile covered more than 500 km."
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    Post  Arrow on Fri Feb 28, 2020 9:48 am

    Yes but more than 500km is not the same as more than 1000km.
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    Post  PapaDragon on Fri Feb 28, 2020 10:49 pm


    Yo, homeboy?

    I just wanted to use this opportunity to remind you of thius litlle nugget you dropped a while back (Mon 30 Dec 2019 to be more precise):
    Arrow wrote:So we have the end of the year. There is no information about any Zircon tests. There are two options
    Test canceled
    The test took place but ended in failure so there is nothing to give information.



    Which leads us to this fresh update:
    magnumcromagnon wrote:
    ....The TASS information service, citing sources in the defense structures, writes that the newest hypersonic weapons - the Zircon missile - were first tested from the side of the ship. The admiral Gorshkov frigate belonging to project 22350 is used as a carrier of the new generation of test missile weapons. It is added that the tests were carried out in January.

    So thanks for your ''contribution'' and have a nice day Razz lol1

    Big_Gazza
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    Post  Big_Gazza on Sat Feb 29, 2020 1:11 am

    Nicely said PD Very Happy

    Its one of the greatest pleasures in life to take a troll and force it to eat its own shit in a public setting. Laughing attack
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    Post  kvs on Sat Feb 29, 2020 1:29 am

    Why feed the troll. Russia has nothing to prove to self-anointed ubermenschen who can't even weld submarine hulls.


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