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    Syrian War: News #22

    Isos
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    Post  Isos on Sun May 17, 2020 2:00 pm

    Connecting a network is not only plug and play.

    Syrian stuff is pretty outdated and they can't upgrade it easily to work with russian modern stuff. That would need new C&C posts and deap modernization of the launchers too. Russian stuff is totally digital contrary to syrian stuff.

    Even their newest buk m2 and pantsir are export version and have little in common with russian softwares that allow connecting an integrated network, let alone russian IADS.

    Russian IADS is a national security item. Don't expect them to integrate it into syrian system which could lead a leak to USA by a soldier low on money. Frequency of datalinks, frequency of radars, range of datalinks ... plenty of usefull things for US.

    I doubt there is any integration made. More likely some sort of information exchange by radio at different levels by russian and syrian radar operators.
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    Post  Isos on Sun May 17, 2020 2:05 pm

    JohninMK wrote:
    GarryB wrote:
    it has certainly been a serious upgrade for the Syrian military in terms of systems... most of the IADS is expensive and very complex... most HATO forces don't have most of it...

    Its really strange that a poor country like Syria has an IADS system, especially the SAM element, far superior to that which any country in NATO has on its home soil.

    Russia and USSR offered already build in IADS fonction in all of its air defence systems and radars. Then it's a matter of what you buy specially in terms of command and control posts that really makes the "intergrated" in IADS.

    NATO iads comes through link 16. But they are not that great with their ground AD because they lack the different level of c&c posts that russia offers to have a good IADS. Add to that that each country making weapons makes it with its own vision of the war so the systems don't complete each other but rather compete one against the other. If you buy only Russian the tor will complete the area of engagement of the buk which will complete tghe area of engagement of the s-300VM which can be protected by the pantsir and all that is commanded by different command posts connected between themselves and sharing target infos and designating targets to each system of the network allowing pretty much 90% of you radars to be turned on only for the engagement and leave their position thanks to their manoeuvrability making them more survivable.
    medo
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    Post  medo on Sun May 17, 2020 4:07 pm

    Syrian air defense is whole russian/soviet made. After 2015 Russia help Syrian AD to modernize existing complexes, train new crews and to integrate them in working IADS. Yes, Pantsirs and Buks are export versions and so is IADS. Modernized Pechora-2M is also well integrated in IADS and other systems like Osa and Kub as well. I would not be surprised if Russian S-400 in Hmeimim also work in export level to control Syrian IADS and not to expose domestic level to NATO, who is spying over Hmeimim all the time. Russian S-300PM2, which were delivered to Syrian AD, were downgraded to S-300PMU2 export version. Syrian S-300PMU2, Buk-M1/M2, Pantsir-S1 and Pechora-2M are on the same level of export IADS integration capabilities and they could normaly worked together networked through different levels of CPs or indirectly with each other. Syrian IADS proved many times to be very effective against different strikes from NATO and Israel.

    Problem for Syrian AD is, that after they shot down Israeli F-16I Sufa with Pechora-2M, Israeli jets did not enter Syrian air space, but always did attack from outside like from international air space, from Lebanon, From Jordan, from Iraq, etc. Syrian AD have limitation not to fire on enemy jets outside Syrian air space. Other problem is, that Syrian AD doesn't have enough AD complexes to defend all needed locations and Israel know that. Israel know that and they always launched enough missiles and gliding bombs, that local AD complexes could not shot down all of them. This is expensive tactics, but Israel doesn't bother, because US taxpayers pay for Israel bombs, not Israelis.
    Isos
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    Post  Isos on Sun May 17, 2020 8:16 pm

    Working in downgraded mode isn't the same as the export mode.

    The export country will ask the producers to have an IADS that works only with the systems it buys. Don't expect to plug an egyptian S-300 with a venezuelan S-300.

    That should be the same with syrian and russian stuff.
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    Post  GarryB on Mon May 18, 2020 7:00 am

    Its really strange that a poor country like Syria has an IADS system, especially the SAM element, far superior to that which any country in NATO has on its home soil.

    It is pretty fantastic actually, and a hint that they really don't fear the Soviets or the Russians were coming because they weren't expecting them to bring any air power...

    Connecting a network is not only plug and play.

    Are you suggesting their IADS requires a complete rebuild and reprogramming when you add a new system like a 14.5mm HMG unit?

    An IADS is not a little black box that you plug your gun or missile to and all of a sudden you are playing a video game.

    An IADS is a structure and groupings of command vehicles and positions linked together to basically collect data from an enormous variety of sources to collate the information together and to deliver that information to all the operational components of the system with orders.

    Effectively it is a ground based AWACS... not AEW... AWACS.

    The difference is that with AEW you might get a call that enemy fighters are coming from a particular direction... get ready to engage... with AWACS the targets appear on your map outside the range of your radar but based on data from another radar located somewhere else and you are allocated targets depending on your location and the enemy... if you are short range missiles you can't engage bombers at long range but if they launch cruise missiles you will be designated to engage them as they come past... together with units in front of you and behind you. If you have long range missiles you will be tasked with shooting down the bombers at extended ranges in the hope of getting them before they launch their stand off weapons...

    During the Battle of Britain they had radar, but they also had guys on fishing boats calling in sightings and people on the coasts and plenty of other sources calling in information... sometimes the information was wrong, but usually when four or five sources tell you they hear bombers in a location and you know yours are not operating there there is a good chance something is up so you might send aircraft to look.

    The point is that an IADS uses multiple sources of information... as you add platforms you also add their sensors as well as their weapons to your available options with dealing with the enemy. Communication is two way with central command directing the weapons to engage the targets in the most efficient way without having everyone on alert 24/7 or flying patrols 24/7... you can rest while your area is quiet, and in locations that are under attack everyone is allocated a target so you have the best chance of taking out all the targets... imagine a flight of 24 F-16s start flying over Syria... without an IADS you wont know they are there till they enter your radar view... so you need to keep your radar on to see them... you might get a call from another SAM battery or HQ but it is pretty basic... when the aircraft enter your radar range you might start firing and the battery next to you might start firing too... in such a case you might collectively launch 40 missiles but because you are not coordinating your activity you might actually only be targeting 4 of the aircraft in the group. Eventually on your screen there are 24 targets which you might label A1 through to A24, the next battery might do the same but their A6 is not the same target as their A6 so how do you tell them to engage half and you will engage the other half?

    With IADS you have warning of the attack so you are ready... the numbers of targets are known and specific targets are allocated and those target IDs are shared by everyone... so coming in off the sea they might get allocated G36 through to G60, but G43 is on everyones battle screen as G43... so a battery on the coast will be allocated a selection of the targets to engage based on their distance and direction as well as the missiles they are equipped with, while the battery next to them will be allocated different targets to engage... information about the batteries ready to fire missiles are available to HQ so the first battery might have a faulty missile... its target will be allocated to another missile... either in that battery or in another battery.

    And IADS is basically a two way communication system between air defence assets and a command system.

    Syrian stuff is pretty outdated and they can't upgrade it easily to work with russian modern stuff. That would need new C&C posts and deap modernization of the launchers too. Russian stuff is totally digital contrary to syrian stuff.

    Russia has had these IADS for decades and uses many of the outdated stuff the Syrians use... in fact they have stuff that is even older.

    That doesn't matter... an SA-3 is perfectly adequate for shooting down high flying drones or cruise missiles cruising at medium altitudes... why waste a brand new missile you can save for more difficult targets the SA-3 would have problems with?

    That is another part of an IADS... it can optimise the weapons used to suit the threats in question, so drones and high flying bombers trying to use standoff weapons can be engaged with otherwise obsolete weapons... SA-4 or SA-5 can still bring down targets...

    Even their newest buk m2 and pantsir are export version and have little in common with russian softwares that allow connecting an integrated network, let alone russian IADS.

    IADS don't require its components to be built with them in mind... otherwise Russia would need to build a new IADS every time it introduces a new missile or gun system.

    Think of it in terms of something like a Shilka.... it doesn't take much of an upgrade to install a simple computer that receives data from a command vehicle that directs it towards targets.... Shilkas have always had command vehicles that direct the battery so the vehicles in the battery are not all shooting at the same target and leaving other targets free to do as they please.

    Effectively an IADS is the system used for a single battery expanded to include all the air defence assets in the country.

    You don't need a brand new Shilka... a few changes to the electronics and comms systems and maybe quite a few changes to the command vehicle that operates with it and it will be fine... a new laptop inside that shows enemy aircraft from external radar sources showing your location so when the target is within range you can set your scan to the sector where the target is coming so within a second or so you will get a detection and lock and you can start opening fire... instead of sitting there scanning 360 degrees all the time looking for targets... targets that will detect you and either attack you from stand off ranges with missile or fly around your effective gun range. With the IADS you can see them coming... you know which you are to engage... and you can effectively ambush them when they are in the danger zone of your weapon system greatly increasing your chances of a kill and decreasing your chances of getting killed or simply being bypassed and flown around.

    Russian IADS is a national security item.

    Of course it is, but they are upgrading all the time so while the Su-57 is a secret there will be Su-35s that can be sold and even versions of the Su-57 that can be sold that would do excellent jobs without revealing anything about Russian Su-57s.

    They will also have mobile IADS that move with Army and Air Force air defence forces to other places... like Syria... and of course export models that they can communicate with... otherwise you run the risk of your allies shooting down your planes in error .Obviously they had an agreement with Israel so they didn't need to implement it, but since the Israelis abused the situation Russia has now implemented a solution.

    The Syrians IADS is connected to the Russian IADS... it only makes sense. The Russians are not everywhere in Syria so their radar and sensor coverage only comes from a few locations... by adding the Syrian systems including civilian systems they fill in a lot of gaps for themselves. In terms of the other way the Russians created both systems and should be able to control what the Syrians see, but the idea was to avoid mistakes so it makes sense to let the Syrian AD forces know what is what in the air.

    Don't expect them to integrate it into syrian system which could lead a leak to USA by a soldier low on money.

    What is he going to leak... the codes we used last week were... the codes will be megabytes of symbols... you would need electronic copies.

    And so what... the Americans already fly through Syrian airspace.... why would they care about the codes?

    Frequency of datalinks, frequency of radars, range of datalinks ... plenty of usefull things for US.

    All things easily detectable from international airspace in the Med or Syrian airspace or Turkish airspace or Iraqi airspace or the airspace over Jordan...

    I doubt there is any integration made. More likely some sort of information exchange by radio at different levels by russian and syrian radar operators.

    Yeah, it took months to put in place because Syrians don't know how to use radios...

    But if that was all it was why were the Israelis so upset and why do they shoot from standoff distances now?

    Russia and USSR offered already build in IADS fonction in all of its air defence systems and radars. Then it's a matter of what you buy specially in terms of command and control posts that really makes the "intergrated" in IADS.

    You do understand that air defence systems are already designed to receive target information from other platforms anyway... an IADS is just that over the whole country with a command component added.


    The export country will ask the producers to have an IADS that works only with the systems it buys. Don't expect to plug an egyptian S-300 with a venezuelan S-300.

    That should be the same with syrian and russian stuff.

    So what you are saying is that Saudi Arabia would be fucked, because it uses a mix of air defence systems so it would be impossible for them to ever have an IADS.... they would need one for Patriot and one for european air defence SAMs in addition to the one for Russian SAMs and potentially another one for Soviet SAMS or Chinese copies of Soviet or Russian SAMs?

    An IADS is a communications and command network that links sources of air target data and air defence weapons with a command and control structure.

    Most of the times it means replacing the radio in the command vehicle of an air defence battery, but for more modern or upgraded systems each vehicle gets a datalink so they can see a radar picture on their screens populated with data from other sources in the network... if they move then they might move to a dark area where there is no effective low level radar coverage so turning on one of their radars will light up that dark area and reveal any hidden targets... the point is that that dark area will be lit up for everyone on the network so everyone will see the targets. You might be in a Tunguska battery with radar detection capacity well beyond the range of your 30mm cannon and 10km range SA-19 missiles but your 35km range search radar might detect an F-15E flying low and fast that the nearby S-400 battery didn't see because of a line of hills... the F-15E knew this and was trying to sneak up on the S-400 but now the S-400 knows it is there it can fire an ARH 9M96 to intercept the target... the Tunguska couldn't reach it but it could see it... the S-400 could reach it but could not see it... together they shoot it down.

    Of course the IADS might decide that the F-15E is approaching a Pine battery with its radar switched off and that the very low flying F-15E could be shot down using the much cheaper missile so the Pine battery might launch a missile first to see if they can take it down in radar silence...

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    Post  magnumcromagnon on Wed May 20, 2020 12:46 am

    "Thermal balloons dropped by US plane set fire to wheat crops in Hasaka countryside”

    According to the “international community”, this does not constitute terrorism...

    https://sana.sy/en/?p=191866

    https://twitter.com/O_Rich_/status/1262117850044661761


    Just like how they destroyed civilian infrastructure (power stations, water plants, bridges) the Pentagram is left with no choice but to engage in scorched Earth tactics like in Vietnam?!?! Pathetic!!! Mad
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    Post  GarryB on Wed May 20, 2020 1:17 pm

    Start shooting them down.
    George1
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    Post  George1 on Sat May 23, 2020 11:55 pm

    Syrian Army launches operation to secure oil fields: video

    By
    News Desk -
    2020-05-22 0

    BEIRUT, LEBANON (6:00 P.M.) – The Syrian Arab Army (SAA) forces conducted an operation to secure the main roads between Hama and Deir Ezzor, as well as between Raqqa and Homs as Islamic State (IS, formerly ISIS/ISIL) has been increasing its activity in the country.

    The footage filmed approximately 90 kilometres (56 miles) south-west to the city of Raqqa on Wednesday shows the SAA soldiers and military vehicles during the operation.

    “We came to complete the mine-clearing operation in the countryside of the Syrian semi-desert, connected to the countryside of Salamiyah, the countryside of Homs, and the countryside of Raqqa,” said an SAA soldier, adding “as well as to track ISIS members and complete the military combing operation of the entire area.”

    He went on to stress that the second part of the operation is to secure the oil fields in the area, including the At-Tayyem which is “one of the most important wells in this area.”

    Burning ISIS flags, as well as confiscated ammunition allegedly belonging to the group, could also be seen in the video. ​

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    Post  George1 on Sat May 23, 2020 11:56 pm

    Syrian military seizes massive weapons cache in Daraa: video


    The Syrian Arab Army (SAA) recently seized a massive weapons cache in the Daraa Governorate that was left behind by militants in the Houran Valley.

    The captured weapons include heavy and medium machine guns, tank shells, thermal rockets, RPGs, assorted bombs, medium machine guns, machine guns, assault rifles, binoculars and assorted ammunition.

    A security source told Sputnik Arabic that the importance of the locals who helped them find this large weapons cache in rural Daraa.

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    Post  BKP on Sun May 24, 2020 5:55 am

    https://www.almasdarnews.com/article/strategic-m-4-highway-to-be-reopened-for-first-time-in-years/

    So, the last time I made some posts on this board was during the last major dust-up in this conflict, when it seemed for a while like the Russians and Turks may actually go at it directly (they still might). At that time, the M5 highway was freed and Saraqib changed hands a couple or few times. There was major hang-wringing here about the activity of Turkish drones, and, of course, Putin was a cunt and a traitor, etc., according to many.

    Now, at that time, I figured that the M4 highway might be the next logical step in the advance. Some others thought it as well, but some didn't.

    Well, it's was torturuously slow and circuitous getting here, but maybe it is happening.

    This is such a weird conflict. Two of the world's major military powers are there, in unnervingly close proximity. The regional powers are in there also, with much mutual hostility between most of the players. But, so far, they've managed to avoid igniting a larger, far deadlier confrontation. So, things are developing slowly, like one of those drawn-out end-games in chess or a wrestling matching match between well-matched opponents.

    I keep running out of popcorn!

    Hopefully someday we can know more of hidden details; all the skulduggery happening behind the scenes and in the field we can but guess at.
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    Post  JohninMK on Sun May 24, 2020 2:02 pm

    Interesting photo identifies as possibly a Turkish MIM-23 Hawk air defense system near al-Mastumah or possibly a HISAR vertical launch SAM battery https://twitter.com/AcarGurdal/status/1264430000557744128

    There does seem to be lots of recent excavations with a black blob in the middle there. Note the swimming pool at the bottom with the military truck outside the house. This asset did not of course have any influence on the siting of the system lol!


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    George1
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    Post  George1 on Mon May 25, 2020 1:36 pm

    A new video was released on Sunday by the Anna News Agency, which showed the Syrian Arab Army (SAA) engaging enemy forces inside the Idlib Governorate.

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    Post  George1 on Mon May 25, 2020 11:53 pm

    Syrian Army drone strike kills commander of Turkish-backed group

    BEIRUT, LEBANON (11:00 P.M.) – The Syrian Arab Army (SAA) carried out a new drone strike over the Idlib countryside that targeted the commander of a Turkish-backed militant faction.

    According to a field report from the Idlib Governorate, the Syrian Arab Army drone targeted the positions of the so-called “Syrian National Army’s” 1st Brigade, as they attempted to move across the front-line town of Al-Bara’a.

    The report said the drone strike hit the vehicle of the 1st Brigade’s commander, “Abu Ahmad”, as he was making his way across the front-line town.

    The Syrian Arab Army has recently increased their strikes on the Idlib front-lines, as they continue to target the militant movements along this imperative axis in northwestern Syria.

    https://www.almasdarnews.com/article/syrian-army-drone-strike-kills-commander-of-turkish-backed-group/
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    Post  magnumcromagnon on Tue May 26, 2020 6:30 pm

    Just like in Vietnam, despicable scorched Earth tactics were involved:

    US military deliberately set fire to Syrian crop

    The United States continues an uncompromising hybrid war with hated "regimes." And if Venezuela, in the midst of the COVID-19 pandemic, Washington deprived of fuel, then the US military does not spare gas in Syria, setting fire to the fields with crops in this country.


    For several days in the east of Syria, numerous arson of agricultural land has been observed. Moreover, arson is carried out in several ways - by aviation and with the help of road patrols.

    US aviation and the so-called International "anti-terrorist" coalition systematically flies around the territory and deprives the Syrians of food, condemning people to hunger. “Civilized” planes and drones carry out “democratic” bombardment of fields with incendiary ammunition.

    Military patrols on armored vehicles are more secretive. They quietly drive up to the field and shoot it from signal / incendiary rockets. After which they calmly leave.

    So it was on May 24, 2020 in the area of ​​the settlement of Al-Manazhir (Hasake province), when the Americans were caught at the scene of the crime. Locals called for help from the Syrian and Russian military, who immediately proceeded to extinguish the burning field.

    The servicemen of the SAA and patrols of the Russian EaP have repeatedly come to the aid of civilians, helping to extinguish the conflagration. At the same time, the Americans cover up their actions with an imaginary struggle against ISIS (an organization banned in Russia), the victory over which they have already announced several times.



    As locals specify, the Americans, carrying out arson, pursue two goals. First, they want to force local residents to go to work on oil fields illegally controlled by the United States. Secondly, using the food lever, the Americans want to increase instability, creating even more various problems for official Damascus. At the same time, local residents have not seen ISIS terrorists in these places for several years.

    https://topcor.ru/14829-amerikanskie-voennye-celenapravlenno-podzhigajut-urozhaj-sirijcev.html
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    Post  GarryB on Wed May 27, 2020 7:20 am

    They burned sugar crops in Cuba too... the real irony is that with Covid-19 if anyone tried to do this sort of thing in the US no one would notice... burn the crop or hoe it back into the soil... not much difference...

    In this case it is funny... brute force vs hearts and minds... both have track records and they are picking the wrong choice... when Assads forces eventually get there the locals will welcome them with open arms.
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    Post  JohninMK on Wed May 27, 2020 11:30 am

    Qalaat Al Mudiq
    @QalaatAlMudiq
    ·
    1h
    #Syria: moments ago #Russia carried out the 1st airstrike since early March, bombing area of #JisrShoghur.
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    Post  PapaDragon on Wed May 27, 2020 11:40 am

    JohninMK wrote:Qalaat Al Mudiq
    @QalaatAlMudiq
    ·
    1h
    #Syria: moments ago #Russia carried out the 1st airstrike since early March, bombing area of #JisrShoghur.

    COVID pandemic is officially coming to an end lol1

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    Post  JohninMK on Wed May 27, 2020 1:10 pm

    PapaDragon wrote:
    JohninMK wrote:Qalaat Al Mudiq
    #Syria: moments ago #Russia carried out the 1st airstrike since early March, bombing area of #JisrShoghur.

    COVID pandemic is officially coming to an end lol1
    A reminder this morning from the RuAF of what the future holds  russia

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    George1
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    Post  George1 on Wed May 27, 2020 10:19 pm

    Turkish soldier killed in an explosion in Idlib.

    https://www.almasdarnews.com/article/turkey-announces-death-of-soldier-after-attack-in-western-idlib/
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    Post  flamming_python on Thu May 28, 2020 5:18 am

    First joint US-Russian patrol in north-east Syria, near Qamishli

    https://twitter.com/RojavaNetwork/status/1265573623147962369
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    Post  PapaDragon on Thu May 28, 2020 7:08 am

    flamming_python wrote:First joint US-Russian patrol in north-east Syria, near Qamishli

    https://twitter.com/RojavaNetwork/status/1265573623147962369

    Ah, so they are en route to some intersection where one side will pretend to block the road while other will pretend to be blocked? Smile

    Do they draw straws to decide who does what or is this stuff decided beforehand in some international treaty?

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    Post  GarryB on Thu May 28, 2020 7:43 am

    Maybe it was a medical mission... perhaps some ISIS forces in the area of the target were having congestion problems and needed help clearing it.... Twisted Evil
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    Post  flamming_python on Thu May 28, 2020 8:48 am

    PapaDragon wrote:
    flamming_python wrote:First joint US-Russian patrol in north-east Syria, near Qamishli

    https://twitter.com/RojavaNetwork/status/1265573623147962369

    Ah, so they are en route to some intersection where one side will pretend to block the road while other will pretend to be blocked? Smile

    Do they draw straws to decide who does what or is this stuff decided beforehand in some international treaty?


    Na they got tired of cockblocking each other

    Apparently Russian and American soldiers there are on a first-name basis by now; they've run into each others outposts so often.

    This patrol is allegedly in response to some civilian being killed by Turkish border guards; so presumably they're heading there to calm things down and give some reassurance. Or something.
    JohninMK
    JohninMK

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    Post  JohninMK on Fri May 29, 2020 4:21 pm

    More Russian moves east. Scenic video at link.

    ZOKA
    @200_zoka
    ·
    3h
    In the near future, American troops in eastern Syria, or more precisely on the border of the Syrian Arab Republic with Iraq, will have "friendly" neighbors in the area of ​​the town of Semalka.


    https://twitter.com/200_zoka/status/1266318303754100736
    George1
    George1

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    Post  George1 on Mon Jun 01, 2020 3:34 pm

    Syrian Army seizes massive weapons cache with US-made guns in southern Syria: photos

    By
    News Desk -
    2020-06-01 0

    BEIRUT, LEBANON (4:00 P.M.) – The Syrian Arab Army (SAA) uncovered a large weapons cache while combing through the formerly militant-held areas of southern Syria on Monday.

    According to the Syrian Arab News Agency (SANA), the Syrian Arab Army seized a plethora of weapons, including 23mm machine guns, assault rifles including US-made M-16 rifles, night-vision and regular binoculars, communication devices, anti-tank missiles, RPG rounds, and hundreds of kilograms of hashish.

    The items also included more than half a million rounds for machine guns and assault rifles, as well as anti-tank landmines.

    The SANA report released several photos to showcase the large cache that was seized by the Syrian Arab Army earlier in the day.

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    https://www.almasdarnews.com/article/syrian-army-seizes-massive-weapons-cache-with-us-made-guns-in-southern-syria-photos/

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