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    Russian military intervention and aid to Syria #14

    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Thu Jan 28, 2021 9:27 am

    Russia is practically turning a blind eye to Turkey and Yank occupation of Syria. Then why not Iran?

    AFAIK Russia has not told Iran what it can or cannot do in Syria and I don't think they will start now.

    Israel might complain to Russia.... they like to complain about all sorts of things, but I doubt Russia would help Israel against Iran, but of course Israel would start attacking Iranian troops even more if they started doing anything like this, which means they would need to move serious air defence capability with them.

    I would think Russia would like to see the US forces kicked out of Syria, and I don't think they would mind if Syria got its land in the Golan heights back either.

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    nomadski
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    Post  nomadski Thu Jan 28, 2021 10:39 am

    You mean there is nobody that will come to the aid of the Zionist ,  should they  launch an offensive against Iran mainland?  Not Russia or Europe or China or Turkey or the Eskimo? How about the Yanks?  Any yank official would like to comment.......?  No !  Not even them?  So  their offensive plan is secret ? But my plan is not. Agree about air defences in Syria. But with occasional  rusty old Rocket  that was going to be thrown away, then instead thrown into the empty Negev.

    Edit :  BTW, Their thinking is intresting . It goes like :  Usraelis will find themselves in a war with Iran in the future. During the conventional exchange , they will come off worse ,  and hence  will have to use  their Nukes against Iran. But if Iran has nukes,  they will not be able to do this.

    What they  have to understand ,  is that  a Nuclear armed Iran ,  will stop both sides from going to any kind of war. Conventional or otherwise. So they should support a Nuclear Iran. Since this will freeze the conflict. And stop territorial loss or gain by any side.
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    Post  magnumcromagnon Tue Feb 02, 2021 2:57 pm

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    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Tue Feb 02, 2021 10:25 pm

    What they have to understand , is that a Nuclear armed Iran , will stop both sides from going to any kind of war. Conventional or otherwise. So they should support a Nuclear Iran. Since this will freeze the conflict. And stop territorial loss or gain by any side.

    Well Israel justifies its need to have nuclear weapons to be able to defend itself if its neighbours get nuclear weapons too, so the fact that Israel has nuclear weapons means Israels neighbours can have WMDs because the zionist state will remain safe because it has its nukes.

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    nomadski
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    Post  nomadski Wed Feb 03, 2021 10:02 am


    What it means precisely is that no war can take place. Borders are frozen . People on all sides safe from huge conventional wars. This is a step forward for humanity . Allowing the long term resolution of political and tribal differences.

    The Usrael or any other state, in this region, very similarly to the situation in the Caucases or the Balkans, must develop very special political forms, allowing for creation of independent mini-states or City states. Together with economic and development plans, to allow for social cohesion and coexistence. Otherwise they will all turn into Red sea pedestrians.
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    Post  magnumcromagnon Wed Feb 03, 2021 7:36 pm

    Russian military intervention and aid to Syria #14 - Page 17 EtKkz25W4AIeMpk?format=png&name=small
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    PapaDragon
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    Post  PapaDragon Thu Feb 04, 2021 3:54 am

    nomadski wrote:...What they have to understand , is that a Nuclear armed Iran , will stop both sides from going to any kind of war. Conventional or otherwise. So they should support a Nuclear Iran. Since this will freeze the conflict. And stop territorial loss or gain by any side.

    Nuclear state club is very exclusive one and old members are hostile towards any potential new prospect looking to join because it devalues the exclusivity status

    Nobody will be welcoming nuclear Iran, more likely outcome is conventional war in order to preempt nuclear one with tacit approval of those on the sidelines




    nomadski
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    Post  nomadski Thu Feb 04, 2021 10:21 am



    ..... " hostile"...... " welcoming" ... and other mental realities do not find a meaning in circumstances where temperatures inside a Nuclear blast exceed that of the Sun. They become untrue. The only true reality is burning flesh, falling off bones...

    https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.forbes.com/sites/startswithabang/2020/03/28/ask-ethan-how-can-a-nuclear-bomb-be-hotter-than-the-center-of-our-sun/amp/
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    Post  PapaDragon Thu Feb 04, 2021 11:09 am

    nomadski wrote:

    ..... " hostile"...... " welcoming" ... and other mental realities do not find a meaning in circumstances where temperatures inside a Nuclear blast exceed that of the Sun. They become untrue. The only true reality is burning flesh, falling off bones...

    https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.forbes.com/sites/startswithabang/2020/03/28/ask-ethan-how-can-a-nuclear-bomb-be-hotter-than-the-center-of-our-sun/amp/

    Which is why there will be hell coming Iran's way the moment they actually approach developing nuclear bomb

    Unlike North Korea there is no South Korea on Iran's South to worry about

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    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Thu Feb 04, 2021 11:22 am

    Nuclear state club is very exclusive one and old members are hostile towards any potential new prospect looking to join because it devalues the exclusivity status

    Not really about exclusive status, more about becoming another state they can't bully and paw around with a semblance of impunity.

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    JohninMK
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    Post  JohninMK Thu Feb 04, 2021 11:34 am

    PapaDragon wrote:

    Unlike North Korea there is no South Korea on Iran's South to worry about

    Ah, but there is much of the world's supply of oil/gas on both sides of the Gulf. If Iran goes that goes too, sending many back to the late 1900s. Now where was that coalmine we blocked up?
    crod
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    Post  crod Thu Feb 04, 2021 1:09 pm

    JohninMK wrote:
    PapaDragon wrote:

    Unlike North Korea there is no South Korea on Iran's South to worry about

    Ah, but there is much of the world's supply of oil/gas on both sides of the Gulf. If Iran goes that goes too, sending many back to the late 1900s. Now where was that coalmine we blocked up?

    Poor Maggie will be turning in her grave!

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    nomadski
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    Post  nomadski Thu Feb 04, 2021 1:26 pm

    "..... Which is why there will be hell coming Iran's way the moment they actually approach developing nuclear bomb.... Unlike North Korea there is no South Korea on Iran's South to worry about...."

    I do not see any Hell coming  in anyone's direction. They already can reach US mainland  with primitive fission device. They already possess the metal. And delivery range. Too late  to stop Iran. They have to worry about the structural integrity of the statue of Liberty. Nothing to do with what is south or North of Iran..... Peace at last.


    https://youtu.be/_BfmPdut2x4

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    par far

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    Post  par far Thu Feb 04, 2021 4:25 pm

    nomadski wrote:

    ..... " hostile"...... " welcoming" ... and other  mental realities  do not find a meaning in circumstances  where temperatures inside a Nuclear blast exceed that of the Sun. They become untrue. The only true reality is burning flesh, falling off bones...

    https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.forbes.com/sites/startswithabang/2020/03/28/ask-ethan-how-can-a-nuclear-bomb-be-hotter-than-the-center-of-our-sun/amp/


    I don't get all this talk about a nuclear bomb, having a nuclear bomb does not mean that your country totally safe.

    Russia has nuclear bomb but that did not stop Ukraine from going to shit, the US has nuclear bomb but the US still got their asses handed to them by the Taliban and India has a nuclear bomb but they still can't scare a tiny Nepal and get the border dispute in their favor.

    What Covid has taught(or should teach everyone) is that biological warfare is the future.

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    Post  par far Thu Feb 04, 2021 4:26 pm

    crod wrote:
    JohninMK wrote:
    PapaDragon wrote:

    Unlike North Korea there is no South Korea on Iran's South to worry about

    Ah, but there is much of the world's supply of oil/gas on both sides of the Gulf. If Iran goes that goes too, sending many back to the late 1900s. Now where was that coalmine we blocked up?

    Poor Maggie will be turning in her grave!

    Who is Maggie?
    JohninMK
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    Post  JohninMK Thu Feb 04, 2021 4:30 pm

    par far wrote:
    Who is Maggie?
    Maggie Thatcher, our Prime Minister in the 70s and 80s. Transformed our economy.

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    Kriva
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    Post  Kriva Thu Feb 04, 2021 8:02 pm

    Would anyone know what happened after Syrian Air Defence shot down Isreali plane couple years back ?

    Why I'm asking is that I can't figure out why SyAD doesn't target Israeli jets anymore.
    They are trying to intercept the missiles but you need to be lucky 100% of the time.

    There was big talk from Iran in 2020 about beefing up SyAD but there is not to show for it.

    Many thanks Smile
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    Post  JohninMK Thu Feb 04, 2021 8:20 pm

    Kriva wrote:Would anyone know what happened after Syrian Air Defence shot down Isreali plane couple years back ?

    Why I'm asking is that I can't figure out why SyAD doesn't target Israeli jets anymore.
    They are trying to intercept the missiles but you need to be lucky 100% of the time.

    There was big talk from Iran in 2020 about beefing up SyAD but there is not to show for it.

    Many thanks Smile
    From memory this was back in the day when the IAF still thought it safe to overfly Syria. I think it was an F-16i that was hit by a missile chasing it home.

    Following the installation of more modern SAMs plus more importantly lots of RuAF work on the Syrian IADS as well as integrating it with theirs, the IAF decided that it was far to dangerous to overfly Syria unless they absolutely had to. So they now normally launch from over Lebanon using radar shadow areas, like the Beqaa Valley, as much as possible. I think that there have been attacks from the south from Jordan and east from Iraq where it seems they were using USAF ID codes.

    I am sure that the SyAF would love to down an IAF plane or two but until they cross into Syria its a no no.

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    Post  Kriva Thu Feb 04, 2021 8:44 pm

    JohninMK wrote:
    Kriva wrote:Would anyone know what happened after Syrian Air Defence shot down Isreali plane couple years back ?

    Why I'm asking is that I can't figure out why SyAD doesn't target Israeli jets anymore.
    They are trying to intercept the missiles but you need to be lucky 100% of the time.

    There was big talk from Iran in 2020 about beefing up SyAD but there is not to show for it.

    Many thanks Smile
    From memory this was back in the day when the IAF still thought it safe to overfly Syria. I think it was an F-16i that was hit by a missile chasing it home.

    Following the installation of more modern SAMs plus more importantly lots of RuAF work on the Syrian IADS as well as integrating it with theirs, the IAF decided that it was far to dangerous to overfly Syria unless they absolutely had to. So they now normally launch from over Lebanon using radar shadow areas, like the Beqaa Valley, as much as possible. I think that there have been attacks from the south from Jordan and east from Iraq where it seems they were using USAF ID codes.

    I am sure that the SyAF would love to down an IAF plane or two but until they cross into Syria its a no no.

    Many thanks for your response John.

    Interesting point about crossing into Syria but in case of war you would not wait for enemy planes to cross the border in order to engage them.?
    As for the Bekaa Valley: area around Tartus oversees the Lebanon so should be good enough to engage them.

    It's fishy that there are zero reports.
    Are you sure there is not more to this ?
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    Post  JohninMK Thu Feb 04, 2021 9:09 pm

    Kriva wrote:
    Many thanks for your response John.

    Interesting point about crossing into Syria but in case of war you would not wait for enemy planes to cross the border in order to engage them.?
    As for the Bekaa Valley: area around Tartus oversees the Lebanon so should be good enough to engage them.

    It's fishy that there are zero reports.
    Are you sure there is not more to this ?
    Syria is not at war with Israel. If it were then IAF aircraft anywhere within range would be targets.

    There are RuAF S-400 and SyAF S-300 systems virtually co-located on the mountain behind Tartous. Even at that height there are significant radar shadow areas in both Lebanon and Syria.

    Not sure why you think there should be more reports.
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    Post  Kriva Thu Feb 04, 2021 9:51 pm

    JohninMK wrote:
    Kriva wrote:
    Many thanks for your response John.

    Interesting point about crossing into Syria but in case of war you would not wait for enemy planes to cross the border in order to engage them.?
    As for the Bekaa Valley: area around Tartus oversees the Lebanon so should be good enough to engage them.

    It's fishy that there are zero reports.
    Are you sure there is not more to this ?
    Syria is not at war with Israel. If it were then IAF aircraft anywhere within range would be targets.

    There are RuAF S-400 and SyAF S-300 systems virtually co-located on the mountain behind Tartous. Even at that height there are significant radar shadow areas in both Lebanon and Syria.

    Not sure why you think there should be more reports.

    Maybe I didn't express myself well.

    Israel dropped 100's of bombs on Syria in space of 2 years. I would class that as a war on Syria albeit "only" aerial.
    In that period Syria was not able to close gaps/radar shadows and at the same time I have noticed zero 0 reports on twitter or anywhere else that SyAD enagaged Israeli aircraft.

    Did you notice any reports of SyAD enaging Isreali aircraft since Il-20/F16 incidents ?
    I might have missed it hence I find it strange that all reports are about engagement of missiles and that's it.
    Isos
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    Post  Isos Thu Feb 04, 2021 10:26 pm

    Syria and Israel are officially at war since the last war during cold war. They never reached peace.

    Syrian AD can't target them. Israeli planes use stand off attacks with strong jamming. S-200 is old and not really a threat. The downing of the f-16 was a lucky shoot from behind, probably thanks to russian radars help. Buk and pantsir are never in range to be used against the planes, they can only target the cruise missiles.

    Russians have stopped helping SAA against them because Israel is bombing Iran/Hezbollah and if SAA wabts to protect them that's not russian problem. They are out of this "war".
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Fri Feb 05, 2021 8:23 am

    Ah, but there is much of the world's supply of oil/gas on both sides of the Gulf. If Iran goes that goes too, sending many back to the late 1900s. Now where was that coalmine we blocked up?

    Careful which ones you try to reopen... remember Alan Bstards father in law dumped a whole lot of chemical waste down one of them remember and it probably wasn't the only one....

    What Covid has taught(or should teach everyone) is that biological warfare is the future.

    Too much risk of an own goal...

    Maggie Thatcher, our Prime Minister in the 70s and 80s. Transformed our economy.

    Secret code for closed all the coal mines and shifted production of everything offshore.

    My comment above is regarding a British comedy TV series called The New Statesman, with the late but very talented Rik Mayall.

    Rik spends the best part of an episode trying to make a bit of cash dumping some toxic waste into the local disused coalmine only to find out his father in law is trying to stop him because he has already done the same quite a few years before...

    Russians have stopped helping SAA against them because Israel is bombing Iran/Hezbollah and if SAA wabts to protect them that's not russian problem. They are out of this "war".

    Essentially the Russians have an agreement with Israel regarding operations there. The Israelis using the Russian Il-20 as cover for an attack which resulted in it being shot down resulted in a change in that agreement, but essentially the Russians don't care if Israel bombs Iranian or Syrian targets within reason... the Israelis always claim they are hitting terrorist targets that are a direct threat to Israel so they are acting in self defence. The agreement seems to be don't target Russians... and I suspect Iran and Syria sometimes use that to protect their troops too, but at the end of the day the Israelis can't be stopped bombing soldiers fighting real terrorists any more than the US can't be stopped bombing soldiers fighting real terrorists.
    JohninMK
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    Post  JohninMK Fri Feb 05, 2021 12:21 pm

    Two honorable 'gatekeepers' at Khmeimim.

    spriters
    @neccamc1
    ·
    11h
    A monument to the Hero of Russia, pilot Roman Filipov was unveiled at Khmeimim airbase in Syria


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    Hole
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    Post  Hole Fri Feb 05, 2021 5:09 pm

    Nazinyahoo is bombing empty houses to score political points at home. If iranian forces were hit Iran would send his own air defence systems to Syria.

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