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    UAVs in Russian Armed Forces: News #2

    magnumcromagnon
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    Post  magnumcromagnon on Mon Apr 06, 2020 5:10 am

    ultimatewarrior wrote:
    medo wrote:Turkey drone strikes prove, that armed drones are very effective if oponent doesn't have proper air defense. When air defense is present, they are shot down very quickly. LNA shot down in a time of an hour 6 turkish drones. SAA also shot down many turkish drones, when Buk-M2 and Pantsirs come to the theatre. There are some estimates, that SAA shot down around 40 turkish drones in the first week of March. In the beginning Turkey well use Sochi agreement for drone strikes, as this agreement allow Turkish drones to monitor tampon area around observation points and at the beginning no one shot at turkish drones. Armed drones are effective only against enemy, who doesn't have air defense. For all the rest, forget it. It is better to use smaller recce drones and kamikaze drones, than big, expensive armed drones.

    Ground based air defense has never been that effective. The lion's share of air defense falls on the shoulders of fighter jets. Syrian air force doesn't have any flyable fighter jet. That's why Turkey was able to take advantage and invade Syria  with drones.

    In Vietnam SAMs and autocannons made up the lion share, and it was one of the main contributors for the US losing almost 10,000 aircraft's.
    medo
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    Post  medo on Mon Apr 06, 2020 3:28 pm

    ultimatewarrior wrote:
    medo wrote:Turkey drone strikes prove, that armed drones are very effective if oponent doesn't have proper air defense. When air defense is present, they are shot down very quickly. LNA shot down in a time of an hour 6 turkish drones. SAA also shot down many turkish drones, when Buk-M2 and Pantsirs come to the theatre. There are some estimates, that SAA shot down around 40 turkish drones in the first week of March. In the beginning Turkey well use Sochi agreement for drone strikes, as this agreement allow Turkish drones to monitor tampon area around observation points and at the beginning no one shot at turkish drones. Armed drones are effective only against enemy, who doesn't have air defense. For all the rest, forget it. It is better to use smaller recce drones and kamikaze drones, than big, expensive armed drones.

    Ground based air defense has never been that effective. The lion's share of air defense falls on the shoulders of fighter jets. Syrian air force doesn't have any flyable fighter jet. That's why Turkey was able to take advantage and invade Syria  with drones.

    Tell that to Saudis. They have very powerful and modern fighter jets fleet in their air force and they were not able to prevent strike with cruise missiles and suicide drones on Abqaiq. Syria have flying fighter jets MiG-29SM. Turkey was able to use their drones in Idlib simply because Sochi agreement allow they to use drones to monitor their observation points. This is why Syrian army didn't fire on them in the first days.
    ultimatewarrior
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    Post  ultimatewarrior on Mon Apr 06, 2020 5:13 pm

    magnumcromagnon wrote:
    ultimatewarrior wrote:
    medo wrote:Turkey drone strikes prove, that armed drones are very effective if oponent doesn't have proper air defense. When air defense is present, they are shot down very quickly. LNA shot down in a time of an hour 6 turkish drones. SAA also shot down many turkish drones, when Buk-M2 and Pantsirs come to the theatre. There are some estimates, that SAA shot down around 40 turkish drones in the first week of March. In the beginning Turkey well use Sochi agreement for drone strikes, as this agreement allow Turkish drones to monitor tampon area around observation points and at the beginning no one shot at turkish drones. Armed drones are effective only against enemy, who doesn't have air defense. For all the rest, forget it. It is better to use smaller recce drones and kamikaze drones, than big, expensive armed drones.

    Ground based air defense has never been that effective. The lion's share of air defense falls on the shoulders of fighter jets. Syrian air force doesn't have any flyable fighter jet. That's why Turkey was able to take advantage and invade Syria  with drones.

    In Vietnam SAMs and autocannons made up the lion share, and it was one of the main contributors for the US losing almost 10,000 aircraft's.

    Planes evolved far more than ground based AD have. These days cruise missiles can take out long range SAM from thousands of km way with pinpoint accuracy. Which is why Syrian S-200 and S-300 and useless against Israeli stand off missile strikes. Which is why Russia is focusing on attack drones instead of ground based AD.
    ultimatewarrior
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    Post  ultimatewarrior on Mon Apr 06, 2020 5:15 pm

    medo wrote:
    ultimatewarrior wrote:
    medo wrote:Turkey drone strikes prove, that armed drones are very effective if oponent doesn't have proper air defense. When air defense is present, they are shot down very quickly. LNA shot down in a time of an hour 6 turkish drones. SAA also shot down many turkish drones, when Buk-M2 and Pantsirs come to the theatre. There are some estimates, that SAA shot down around 40 turkish drones in the first week of March. In the beginning Turkey well use Sochi agreement for drone strikes, as this agreement allow Turkish drones to monitor tampon area around observation points and at the beginning no one shot at turkish drones. Armed drones are effective only against enemy, who doesn't have air defense. For all the rest, forget it. It is better to use smaller recce drones and kamikaze drones, than big, expensive armed drones.

    Ground based air defense has never been that effective. The lion's share of air defense falls on the shoulders of fighter jets. Syrian air force doesn't have any flyable fighter jet. That's why Turkey was able to take advantage and invade Syria  with drones.

    Tell that to Saudis. They have very powerful and modern fighter jets fleet in their air force and they were not able to prevent strike with cruise missiles and suicide drones on Abqaiq. Syria have flying fighter jets MiG-29SM. Turkey was able to use their drones in Idlib simply because Sochi agreement allow they to use drones to monitor their observation points. This is why Syrian army didn't fire on them in the first days.

    Sochi agreement was between Putin and Erdogan. Assad had nothing to do with it. Turkish attack drones been attacking SAA daily since months ago in supports of HTS and TIP. Everyone knew that. Don't tell me nobody knew that. Even a fool on the street knew that. Ground based AD is useless against drones. Drones can be built in the thousands. They don't care how many drones they lose. No pilot ever gets killed anyway when drones are shot down. Turkish attack drones weren't stopped by ground based AD. They were stopped by Putin Erdogan deal.
    miketheterrible
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    Post  miketheterrible on Mon Apr 06, 2020 5:26 pm

    I have UW on ignore list for a reason and his stupidity is showing.

    Long range AD systems aren't for cruise missiles and low flying missiles, that's what shorads are for.

    Try to learn the fucking basics we been repeating for years first. It's getting tiring to repeat myself.
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB on Tue Apr 07, 2020 6:23 am

    Ground based air defense has never been that effective. The lion's share of air defense falls on the shoulders of fighter jets.

    Actually the total opposite is true... an air defence battery is on guard 24/7 and remains in the area day and night in all weather protecting the targets it is protecting... when aircraft arrive they might stay as long as 30 minutes but they always have to leave again because they burn fuel.. also very few fighter aircraft have radars that can detect tiny battlefield drones and shooting them down with air to air missiles and fighter aircraft is like using Patriots to shoot down drones... millions of dollars per kill... incredibly inefficient.

    Syrian air force doesn't have any flyable fighter jet.

    Syria has plenty of flyable jet fighters, but SAMs offer better protection.

    That's why Turkey was able to take advantage and invade Syria with drones.

    Turkey invaded Syria while Syria was busy fighting terrorists and foreign supported rebels... Turkey could not have invaded without those distractions and also directly supported those terrorists and rebels and made lots of money selling stolen Syrian oil via those terrorists.

    Planes evolved far more than ground based AD have.

    Not really. And Planes are part of an AD. Lets compare HATO with Russia shall we in terms of defence capacity... Russian cruise missiles would be an enormous threat to all HATO countries, Syria... without an IADS and just using their air defence units independently managed to shoot down 71 of 103 cruise missiles launched at them using ground based AD units only.

    In comparison Saudi Arabia with all sorts of the very latest western fighters and aircraft and Air Defence systems didn't even see cruise missiles and drones coming let alone stop any.

    These days cruise missiles can take out long range SAM from thousands of km way with pinpoint accuracy.

    Except that they haven't.

    Which is why Syrian S-200 and S-300 and useless against Israeli stand off missile strikes.

    Israel has F-35 super duper 5th gen stealth fighters... they should be flying all over Syrian air space with impunity dropping cheap dumb bombs and kicking arse of any fighter that dares take off and challenge them... instead they hide in the mountains of a nearby country launching standoff attacks like cowards and still not hitting very much at all.

    Which is why Russia is focusing on attack drones instead of ground based AD.

    What are you trying to say... do you think Russia thinks attack drones will enable it to get rid of all its ground based AD?

    That is like saying a knight going in to battle does not need any armour to protect him... he just needs a really big sword.

    Well the Russians are developing attack drones but are also improving their ground based AD forces as well... they just added Pine SAMs to their own forces and are introducing the S-350 system as well...

    Sochi agreement was between Putin and Erdogan. Assad had nothing to do with it.

    Doesn't change the fact that Turkish drones were there with the permission of Russia...

    Turkish attack drones been attacking SAA daily since months ago in supports of HTS and TIP. Everyone knew that. Don't tell me nobody knew that. Even a fool on the street knew that.

    So what? Turkish forces have been supporting terrorists from the start... so have the british and french and americans... what is your point? The white helmets terrorist organisation was created by a brit.

    Ground based AD is useless against drones.

    How many Turkish drones operate near Russian military bases... or for how long?

    Drones can be built in the thousands. They don't care how many drones they lose. No pilot ever gets killed anyway when drones are shot down. Turkish attack drones weren't stopped by ground based AD. They were stopped by Putin Erdogan deal.

    Turkish drones are continuously being shot down... a shot down drone is not doing its job. By the same logic more Turkish tanks are being made so Syria and Russia should just stop using ATGMs?

    Russian AD seems to be the worlds most effective counter to the threat of drones.

    HATO has no answer AFAIK... any systems they might use against them they don't have in sufficient numbers to deal with normal aircraft let alone drones.

    Russia makes more air defence missiles than the rest of the world combined.

    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB on Tue Apr 07, 2020 6:50 am

    3kg warhead, 30 minute flight time translates to 40km range. It would be nice if they made a counter part for Grad/Tornado-G. They already have UAV's for their MLRS, but these suicide drones would be a nice addition. In in the era of irregular/unconventional/asymmetrical low-intensity conflict, Grad is almost overkill in many situations, a modified version (adjusted dimensions including folding wings, and a small rocket booster) of the suicide drones of Kub-UAV, Lancet-1/3 should add good capability to target technicals as well as insurgents hiding behind cover, and maybe be able target open windows.

    It would be really cool if they could be multi-stacked in a tube, for the Lancet-3 maybe 2 or 3 per tube, for Lancet-1 something like 3 or 4 per tube, and maybe 5 or 6 per tube for Kub UAV. Should add additional persistence and even greater ammo stores for Grad, maybe having like 5-10 tubes dedicated for suicide drones, and 30-35 tubes for regular ammunition.

    What rocket artillery batteries need is something with rather more range than 40km and the ability to fly to the target area and check the damage done to see if follow up attacks are needed against area targets... rocket artillery batteries would rarely be used against single individual targets so a reuseable drone with better range and speed and endurance would be more valuable to the battery... of course receiving information from all platforms on the battlefield would be best and is teh case but having a fast long endurance drone they can send out to find the targets they are preparing to open fire on so they can see the results of their attack in real time and correct fire if needed would be their best solution.

    Suicide drones are useful to enter enemy airspace where targets of opportunity might appear without warning and disappear just as quickly so you need to attack them immediately but a more persistent drone makes more sense as you can make the cameras better and add fuel to allow them to loiter longer and perhaps return to refuel and be reused making them rather more efficient.

    An attack recon helo like a Ka-52 might carry a box of disposable suicide drones under its wing and release a drone to fly ahead over a small rise and look for targets and threats... it can pass a close up view of targets and air defence systems back to the attack helo to scan with radar at stand off distances and send details back to HQ, and any air defence platform spotted could be attacked by the drone before it runs out of fuel... it doens't need an expensive high tech camera it is just scanning ahead for things you can use the much better quality sensors on the attack helo to look at and mark on a map for artillery or air strike.
    George1
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    Post  George1 on Tue Apr 21, 2020 1:12 pm

    First "Orion" UAV delivered to MoD

    "Orion" is a medium-high unmanned complex of long flight duration, the maximum take-off mass of which is 1 ton, and the maximum payload mass is 200 kg. Its “ceiling” reaches 7.5 km, the maximum flight duration with a standard load is 24 hours, and the speed is up to 200 km/h.


    https://bmpd.livejournal.com/4000615.html
    dino00
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    Post  dino00 on Thu May 21, 2020 1:12 pm

    ZALA AERO has developed a new multipurpose VTOL unmanned aerial vehicle ZALA 421-16EV

    News( in English) and video↓

    https://zala-aero.com/en/news/vtol-zala-421-16ev/

    An ingenious cheap modification.
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB on Fri May 22, 2020 3:15 am

    Nice.

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