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    Coronavirus pandemic 2019-20

    nomadski
    nomadski


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    Post  nomadski Mon Mar 23, 2020 11:04 am

    It seems that for now, and until cure is found, that best plan is draconian measures for elderly  population . Long term isolation measures needed. Providing this does not cause more harm than good to the general population . And the rest of the younger population,  carry on with economic activity. No need for young to be monitored or screened. Just go home if sick, as per normal flu.


    You may need a small army, to supply food and medicines to the old. While they isolate at home. This is a practical measure. Can be done. No need to shut down entire economy. Quarantine entire society.

    Hospitals should empty of corona victims. These should be taken to separate isolation unit. Since the only effective treatment is ventilators. These do not have to be in hospitals. Blocking beds. Stopping the work of hospitals.


    If by stopping economic activity, we end up with the permanent loss of say a million jobs. And we only save life of 100,000 old corona victims. Then this does not make sense. The loss of a million jobs and futures for young, is far worse than loss of 100,000 older citizen lives. Sad but real truth, I think.


    https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.vox.com/platform/amp/2020/3/12/21173783/coronavirus-death-age-covid-19-elderly-seniors
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Mon Mar 23, 2020 11:24 am

    The problem with this Covid19 is that it is not limited mainly to east asia or to middle east, but is spreading all around the world.

    Nahh... C19 is a Pandemic because people in white countries are effected now.

    Italy is suffering hard because direct links to China for the original virus strain, but also because Italy is a serious tourist centre, but also a place Europeans retire to, so the combination of mobile population, older population because of environmental conditions (ie food and lifestyle).

    If by stopping economic activity, we end up with the permanent loss of say a million jobs. And we only save life of 100,000 old corona victims. Then this does not make sense. The loss of a million jobs and futures for young, is far worse than loss of 100,000 older citizen lives. Sad but real truth, I think.

    Yeah, it does not work like that.

    Old people need services and create jobs. The current strain of the virus seems highly dangerous to the elderly but also the very young... saving 100,000 oldies might not sound like it is worth it, but the 300,000 children that die too will mean those young people can get a job at the end of a shovel digging holes.

    When people go out of quarantine then of course there is going to be a large upsurge in demands for everything, which should create a growth spurt while employers who had to lay staff off have to rehire them...
    nomadski
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    Post  nomadski Mon Mar 23, 2020 11:36 am


    If this virus kills both the old and the young. Then the same metric applies. But this time the distinction is between the afflicted and the not afflicted. The not afflicted by saving lives of the afflicted, are then afflicted by loss of income or illness. It then becomes a question of what number is greater. The greatest number of productive lives that can be saved. And these may not even be children. But economic active healthy adults. With a chance to reproduce, in near future to replace the population. When cure is found........
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    Post  Vann7 Mon Mar 23, 2020 12:22 pm

    Hannibal Barca wrote:I believe this coronovarius thing is a tipping point in human history, something like the beginning of the Chinese era.


    And i think ,you hit there a big bird ,but no idea how big is your statement , because is you did you will have explained why.. Smile


    So that sentence is brilliant but incomplete at same time....


    I will have added this..
    I believe this coronovarius thing is a tipping point in human history, something like the beginning of the Chinese era And the point of no return for the American empire.

    Is truly horrible what US policy makers have done..
    Because make no mistake.. this have all the signatures of a biological attack by someone who wanted to take
    down China economy.. and we know which nations were in a mission to do just that with trump war on chinese electronic giants.. and trump tariff war ,  all biggest enemies/or most disloyal allies of United States interest..
    surprise surprise where the ones more hit by the virus..  targets china heavily ,but all countries right next
    to China border ,who shares a huge border.. barely hit by the virus.. Shocked  and from china jumps by magic
    to Iran and targets their top officials in the government.. Neutral   from iran jumps to italy.. and ignore iranian
    borders.. ignores heavily turkey ,who have been barely hit too.. ignores azerbaijan that shares border with iran ,ignores afganistan.. from italy swith to spain and germany and france. but barely attack/ignores portugal ,shares with spain border , ignores Poland completely.. that shares a huge border with germany..  

    if this is a bio attack (at it clearly looks) its masterminds (US) will want to do it in a way , that it don't raise suspicion ,that they are behind it.. because if for example the virus hits only china very hard and spread to the entire country ,and at same time hit north korea ,russia ,iran and venezuela.. it will have been too obvious ,that this was not a normally spread virus ,but a terrorist attack.. so the best way to create a smoke screen a deviate the attention of the authors of the attack , will have been to sacrifice people in your own country too.. a couple of thousands ... but contrary to china ,iran ,italy ,france and germany ,that attacks everything hits their politicians and most important economic zones.. in US they will have done the attacks in a highly controlled , with them sending their victims..withing the minute of infected to an already setup hospital. and people not allowed to be interview.  ie.. a highly controlled demolition BIOlogical self attack . so to keep things under control.. and have a plan B , that if rumors grow too much US behind it , then they could be ready to sacrifice an entire city ,that is totally irrelevant for US economy. but cities like california silicon valley zone ,could not be touched . incredibly as this sound ,the virus attacks Rand Paul ,who is one of the most influential anti US-war senators.. but not any other politician..  so the attacks of corona virus in US are highly likely a combination of fakes.. by media to create a smoke wall ,around their nation being the authors of the wuhan virus , combined with heavily scripted /preselected attacks on their own citizens..    for example are the chance probabilities ,that from all hollywod actors , Tom Hanks and wife ,travel to australia ,one of the countries with more chinese citizens in the zone ,being the one less hit ,by the virus.. get the virus there? Rolling Eyes

    and then you have US media ,throwing every day conspiracies and smoke grenades ,lots of distraction that trump was infested too ,that nba this infested too, that trump daughter self isolated for fear she could be  infested ?  all this things are propaganda by US media to make it look ,United States is also facing a "virus crisis" and is not under their control.. if even the white house and families  "infested".  US media also was running 24 hours stories of how China Biolab could have been the source of the virus.. and that is just opps.. by mistake was dropped in a fisherman zone.. Rolling Eyes  and that one doctor was arrested for trying to "warn the world".. of something that was never a secret..  there is no way china to tell the world it have corona virus ,and close its entire nation economy , until they get enough people tested  positive for it ,taking into account it takes 14 days for corona to show up ,to declare a nation emergency.. china began to warn when the corona cases was in the 200 hundred with a dozen killed, which was a reasonable time to predict it was going to be a big thing.. and the city have to be closed.   Best way to spot a fraud about an international incident  and US complicity on it , is to observe the propaganda being run by CNN ,fox and washington .  Even infowars which sold out to the swamp ,was running 24 hours propaganda it was china  biological attack to "Get rid of hong kong"  Rolling Eyes  which have been barely hit by the virus.. and now Chinese government is directly pointing fingers at US military for being behind the virus.. So those claiming that covid19 is a chinese weapon or like trump told ,that china did not warned the world 3 months earlier.. then why after china warned the world ,of corona virus in feb...trump did not closed its borders??? disney world had open its doors.. even in mid march... when already the world news had a month covering the spread to europe of the virus.. so they did not close their borders in full to all international flights ,simply because they are the authors of the virus.. and they were spreading it themselves ,targeting china and italy ,france and germany nearly at same time.  not how how normal viruses spread.. the magical way the virus spread so fast.. is because of human hands.. terrorist job.

    The last time i felt the same way , that..  [coronovarius thing is a tipping point in human history]..
    that major big changes were going to happen in a negative way for everyone.. was the day
    after a week of research ,discovered that the World trade center attacks in 2001, were 100%
    an inside job terrorist attack by the CIA and FBI.. Shocked   but the usual fools in this forum ,the ones
    that say Russia economy "is not dependent on oil and gas" , will call this a "conspiration theory" but is very well documented.   my reasoning was.. if they can do this act of pure evil ,to their own citizens..and their own country , then they will have no limits in their evilness and if they get away with 9/11 ,then they will continue doing
    more terror attacks through the entire world..   i want to get the attention ,that the bastard traitor President Putin in 2001 ,helped to spread the lies of what happened in 911 ,that it was taliban in caves and bin laden who was behind the attack..

    https://www.presstv.com/Detail/2019/09/06/605514/US-Russia-911-attacks-Putin-George-W-Bush

    So putin is almost 20 years later ,facing the same world the bastard helped to create..  when you see evil and you allow it to grow and not denounce it..and allow it to get get away with crimes.. you become part of the problem.. and for sure putin cooperated with the second biggest fraud in human history , because of his gas station project with europe ,depended on US allowing Russia to build a pipeline with Europe.. so in change for support of NATO " war on terrorism" a major takeover of neutral or independent nations ,in africa and middle east.. Putin in 2001 hoped that by his support to NATO wars , that he will be allowed to be the saudi arabia of europe and sell oil and gas in peace.  Rolling Eyes

    Fast forward in time ,just like i predicted.. the authors of 911 ,after they got away with that crime ,began more
    "terror attacks" events.. the other was in UK and lybia blamed for it..This was first time NATO could now justify preventive invade other nations after nation ,by just accusing them of planning terrorist attacks on their nations..
    and Putin sit in the sidelines and ran with the entire fraud , in change for US not interfering in their plans to do energy business with europe.. So this is a perfect example.. how Putin's ill advice policy of transforming Russia into a european gas station ,ended limiting Russia economy future in the long term...    had he went into a different direction ,and understand that modernization of Russia economy ,will have allowed them to directly compete with US ,will have been a much better option , because even if Russia never surpass what US business can do.. at least Russia will have an alternative in place to US business and another step for true nation independence , and true sovereignty .


    back to the present..2020..
    This biological attack on china will be a tipping point in human story.. now China and Russia knows,
    US military should not be underestimated and that they will stop at nothing ,until they see Russia and China
    disbanded in a million of parts.. total disintegration of their nations.. and so China and Russia and Europe
    response to this attack will be the big question...will they just pretend that nothing happened and continue
    doing business as usual to US  and turn the other cheek when attacked again ,by another bio weapon ??  No
    or will they realize by now ,that there is no place in the world for Russia and china to exist ,as long the american
    system exist..???  that is impossible for Russia and china existence ,with the US system .. and europe italy ,germany and france ,should learn by now ,that now they are also a target too.. so this is really interesting to say the least.. to target europe with a bioweapon too.. means US polcymakers have lost all hopes ,of taking control back of central and western Europe.. and then they seeking to destroy germany ,italy ,spain and france too..  
    this is a big moment in history.. the only question i have is if spain ,italy ,france and germany knew about this
    attacks , and participated with their silence in this major event.. As Putin's did it , in 911 world trade center self attacks.  Because depending on the answer whether or not the governments in europe cooperated with this attack on china and their own countries ,will determine the kind of new world we all will be living.. i personally find hard to believe italy pro washington gov ,will allow its nation to be attacked this way . but will need to wait
    from 3 to 6 months more..when the virus end.. in which direction the world order will move..
    what is clear to me however ,that this crisis ,have proven without question China leadership role in the world ,
    and proven once again putin mediocre leadership and incompetence ,when even Serbia ,now calls China ,the only one that can help them.  No   No nation in their right mind will follow or listen to putin calls for an alliance not even for a football match ,knowing their nations will be hit by US... and that Putin's version of Russia is a very weak nation with a very weak economy.  China in the other hand , have proven that is a true leader in this world , and best of all ,that is here to stay ,that no virus will stop them and  that is challenging US leadership position..
    Is algo interesting how US have not sent a single plane with supplies to any european nation.. when something like that will benefit their propaganda ,that they have nothing to do with the corona virus...  maybe behind cameras at diplomatic level .. European leaders are telling trump to fuck off with their help , telling US to stay away from them?   i don't think trump is behind of this corona virus attack ..but his military generals and intelligence agencies that he don't control is a different thing.

    whatever it happen ,this corona virus depending in which direction europe move , will have a very high chance
    to completely break the world order and US privileges they enjoyed in the past.. and we will see it when the virus ends.. and the recovery phase start.

    dramatical changes that will happen after this bio attack..
    1) traveling and tourism wich putin was promoting heavily "as diversification" economy tactic will be seriously hit.
    2)sports events ,which putin wanted to make russia the capital , will be suspended years to come ,even the slightest rumor in cnn ,that there is a "new virus" in russia infesting thousands ,will be enough to dissuade millions people from traveling.
    3)the rise of digital economy ,online business to levels never seen before , ,the very same business
    that putin have been avoiding for so long and not giving a shit , because he prefer "healthy life" in the open world and sports.. business Laughing   ignoring the nation was facing a real war. so not good to go outside in a war.
    4) new alliances and possible the european union break up ,if germany and france don't get their shit together.
    the only thing in common in europe ,that could united them is that greater cooperation with china is a good thing.. they need to move closer to china.. and take a major distance from US including NATO ,if they don't want to face another bio attack ,they should ban US military planes or tanks in their nation territory or airspace.
    For US it will be very easy to attack italy with bio weapons ,since they have full access to italian airspace and many military bases there.
    5)the most dangerous development of coronavirus attack , could be counter attacks on US ,if things goes
    from bad to worse.. we could see a major biological war happening from china or europe or russia into US ,to hit their economy. i don't think will go down this way ,such a war will win no one. ,but is still a possibility if the people behind this virus ,not arrested or some kind of reparation damages or dramatic change in US foreign policy. including the tone of speaking of trump to adversaries should change .and sanctions dropped completely
    on all nations ,could be a good step in right direction.
    6)traveling in the future will become a major pain . people will have to be screened with xrays for search of fluids  
    in body or any objects, including strip naked , and a certificate of health for traveling to another country. so business related with tourism will byte the dust... the end of tourism ,for the next 2-3 years.. so sad for putin  that was hoping to help his nation economy ,diversify it.. with Russia lazy economic model that require next to no skills from a business point of view. just make cities pretty ,host sports and hope for many people to visit them..
    and cruise liners travel will be gone for many years.. too.. it will be scary to travel in a cruise liner ,with the idea ,that just one passenger infected with a virus ,can transform the ship into a jail for 40 days ..for them.

    7)all open outdoors business will suffer big time , so sad for putin's vision for russia.  Laughing
      at the same time this coronavirus incident will boost to new level the internet connected business (modern business) ,digital entertainment industry , social media , online gaming and movies will become the new big
    way to do business.  schools will become more and more online thing.. it will force everyone to work from home..
    have 2 friends, than in light of the coronavirus they work in 2 pharma companies , and both of them continue working from home ,they do all ,using tele conference online.. . working from home using internet will become
    a normal thing. because the danger of viruses will not end .. probably will only scale ..because the fear will not go away any time soon.. after covid19.. which will play in the hands of China highly innovative economy and their 5G technology.  Cool  so sad for putin's olympic bananas dream.. will have to go to the drawing board again with a new economic model and get rid of his obsolete economic model.


    In summary the world will not be the same.. in the best case scenario some ways it will be very bad ,in others better.. in worse case.. that a major wars start after this bioattack very bad for humanity.
    and the rapid reaction of China containing the virus ,and defeating it ,will be major huge victory for China
    and will skyrocket their nation as the new leaders in the world.. United States will become the most distrusted
    nation in the world.. even more than north korea or saudi arabia ,by europe and the world after this.. regardless if it is proven or not ,they behind the coron virus in china. Russia as always will take the back seat.. to which ever country become a leader.. because of his lame and very outdated  weak president.  

    -Business that rely on outdoors and social life will go bankrupt ,outdoors entertainment because this corona virus incident will not end ,any time soon.. we could see some european countries to counter attack US after this with their own virus.. so it will pass years before people will feel safe going outside..  Those with chains of hotels ,will be the ones hit harder.. like Trump hotel business will be hit very hard.. too.. Laughing  italy will be left in dust its economy that just like russia is very outdated economy ,highly dependent on tourism.

    -on the other side entertainment industry ,that can operate online will go on the rise.. if people can't go outside ,they will use internet more..  high tech business will go on the rise even more.. this doesn't surprise me..
    US and china economies will benefit enormously from a digital revolution ,but china a bit more with its 5G business if manage to take europe market.. and asian too.. electronics and home delivery jobs will skyrocket.
    and of course face mask could become a mandatory outfit for the people when going outside.. big score too for china ,that is  today the leader in production of emergency supplies.

    my prediction is china will become the new world leader ,it will take a decade or less but it will happen, and US system will significantly degrade over time..its economy no longer will dominate and cut in half, dollar or not ,they still will be a major power but will not dominate as used to do in the past.. the corona virus attack was supposed to break china economy ,and they handle it in just 3 months ,since began to contain it.. any future bio attack on china will be pointless .will be contained even faster ,with the lessons learned..so the only card left
    for US elites will be the use of nuclear weapos to stop china economy rapid advance.. because there are no more cards to play against china.. and i don't think they will dare to do that.. it will be impossible to hide their hands..
    and many nations and or their society will not forgive US for this bio attack ,and will individually boycott US high tech industry and US products whenever they have the option..and choose a chinese product instead. we might see the start of the decline indeed of the american business world.. we will see.. it all depends on the direction europe ,taiwan and japan that is the other nations that leads world development in business to move , if they become much closer in business relations with china or not.. will be the ultimate signal of the end or not of the american era.
    JohninMK
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    Post  JohninMK Mon Mar 23, 2020 1:57 pm

    Vann7 wrote:
    my prediction is .............................

    That people round here will probably read even less of your posts than they did before as you have stepped up the volume of your text. Laughing

    Clearly you must be isolating at home with more time on your hands to fill. Shocked
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    Post  JohninMK Mon Mar 23, 2020 2:51 pm

    There were 9 Il-76 yesterday and another today. That's a lot of capacity.

    This is how diplomatic 'win friends and influence people' is done, look at the poster below, genius. Russia and especially China are giving the US/West an object lesson.

    Italy voting against EU/Russian sanctions extension anyone?


    Earlier in the day, Russian military planes transported equipment and around 100 experts to Italy to provide the country with help amid the COVID-19 pandemic.

    A tenth Il-76 military plane has departed from Russia to Italy to assist in the fight against COVID-19, the Russian Defence Ministry said in a statement.

    The ministry said earlier in the day that Italy had held its first consultations on using the Russia-provided equipment for the fight against COVID-19 and on engaging Russian experts in the process.

    The statement comes after nine aircraft of the Russian Aerospace Forces brought nearly 100 experts with medical equipment to Italy to help the country abate the pandemic. Mobile units with equipment for disinfection and COVID-19 diagnostics have in a short period of time been delivered to the Italian Air Force's Pratica di Mare air base, located 18.6 miles southwest of Rome.


    https://sputniknews.com/world/202003231078680941-russian-plane-with-specialists-equipment-to-fight-covid-19-flies-to-italy/

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    EDIT

    Sorry, forgot the Cubans

    On March 20, 130 Cuban doctors will arrive in Venezuela to join the government’s flagship healthcare program Mission Barrio Adentro in the capital region, informed President Nicolás Maduro.

    The Cuban doctors will join the efforts made by the Bolivarian Government to prevent and control coronavirus after 42 cases have been detected in the country.

    President Maduro thanked the Bolivarian Alliance for the Peoples of Our America (ALBA-TCP) and the Cuban government for all their support amid the COVID-19 pandemic.

    “We shall continue coordinating with the World Health Organization (WHO), the Pan-American Health Organization (PAHO), the UN, China, Cuba and Russia,” urged the Venezuelan president to the Presidential Commission in charge of addressing the emergency in Venezuela.

    Cuba’s technical delegation has been in Caracas since March 15 to exchange experiences on the COVID-19 containment procedures adopted by the two Caribbean countries.


    http://mppre.gob.ve/en/2020/03/20/more-than-100-cuban-doctors-to-join-fight-against-coronavirus-in-venezuelas-capital-region/
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    Post  Regular Mon Mar 23, 2020 3:03 pm

    nero wrote:
    Regular wrote:Nice gesture from Russia, but sure as shit, 4-5 weeks later Russia might need this themselves. This is natural progression of virus...

    They were one of the first to close borders with China & put people coming back from infected countries into quarantine... unlike many EU countries.

    The spread of the country will also help in combating infection. The only problem is containing the virus in Moscow and St Pete's.

    Italy were one of the first in EU to close borders with China as well.

    I wouldn't so sure about virus not spreading in Metropolitan areas in Moscow.

    There are plenty of gostarbeiters that care very little for themselves and others, plenty of young people who even care less about quarantine and self isolation.

    Russia is more similiar to Italy than China when it comes to public freedom, don't believe western propaganda- russians socialise like crazy, they are impossible to control and they will run away from any quarantine. I don't see any other scenario for Moscow but them getting the Big Coof. To say that Russia has excess of medical equipment is.. to early. No one of us know what will happen next.

    Also, where I am getting at - Italy is a NATO country. If Russia would be getting the Big Coof in a same way Italy is now, then there would be absolutely no one helping Russia, except China and maybe Ukraine, Georgia and Baltics (this is a funny joke Neutral )

    Russia has an advantage- due to 90s bullshit Russian population is not as old as Italian. Russians are heavy smokers, but not on the same level as Chinese. So, naturally - you can expect less people belonging to risk groups. Russia does produce OK amount of ventilators as well. They can boost the production to meet the demand quite easily.
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    Post  kvs Mon Mar 23, 2020 3:22 pm

    More vapid plausibility arguments and outright lies.

    How the f*ck would those Moscow and St. Petersburg gastarbeiters result in a massive delay in the spread of the disease? You
    just invoked Italy as some BS counter-argument where you concocted the "fact" that it closed its borders to China early. Supposing
    your concoction is right, then Russia's gastarbeiters should have resulted in widespread infection just as with Italy.

    No, Italy did not engage the border control and quarantine that Russia did. Keep on making up more "facts" and you will just
    become a total joke for the ignore list.

    https://euobserver.com/coronavirus/147543

    You are deliberately ignoring the "hug a Chinese" virtue signaling to concoct your claim that Italy acted just like Russia with its
    border controls and quarantine.

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    Post  Rodion_Romanovic Mon Mar 23, 2020 3:25 pm

    Regular wrote:
    nero wrote:
    Regular wrote:Nice gesture from Russia, but sure as shit, 4-5 weeks later Russia might need this themselves. This is natural progression of virus...

    They were one of the first to close borders with China & put people coming back from infected countries into quarantine... unlike many EU countries.

    The spread of the country will also help in combating infection. The only problem is containing the virus in Moscow and St Pete's.

    Italy were one of the first in EU to close borders with China as well.

    Yeah but we did not close the borders from other EU countries, and many people could still travel from China to Italy doing some intermediate step in other european countries (and not only, i know of cases in which the ministryof foreign affairs instructed italians temporarily residing in China to come back via indirect flight (e.g from other Asian countries).

    Anyway, apparently the contagion was brought from southern Germany to Italy, and then it spread quite fast.

    Unfortunately there were a lot of idiots that when they saw that the north of Italy was getting shut down they left in hurry assaulting trains and roads. Among those idiots both people originally from the south but living or studying in Lombardy and also people from the north of Italy having a second house somewhere in the south. Many of those spread the virus to other regions, but we do not know yet how bad it will be. In the next few days we hope to see a reduction of the number of new cases in northern Italy, due to the quarantine measures.
    Isos
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    Post  Isos Mon Mar 23, 2020 3:25 pm

    No matter when you close the borders. The virus needs btw 2-14 days to show first sign and you may be contagious during that time.

    It take less than 24 hours by plane to anywhere from China.

    Once it is in you country it's too late. This thing spread as quickly as a biological weapon and you can give it to an average of 3 persons. That's a nasty virus. And Italy didn't take good decisions to stop, neither did France or UK for that matter.

    In france you need to sign a paper to go out. The paper is downloaded on the interior minister's website and you check a box on that paper saying why you need to go out. Totally useless piece of paper because they don't know if you lie or not. But the gov can't really stop people going out, ot's up to people to be smart and don't take stupid risks.
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    Post  kvs Mon Mar 23, 2020 3:35 pm

    Rodion_Romanovic wrote:
    Regular wrote:
    nero wrote:
    Regular wrote:Nice gesture from Russia, but sure as shit, 4-5 weeks later Russia might need this themselves. This is natural progression of virus...

    They were one of the first to close borders with China & put people coming back from infected countries into quarantine... unlike many EU countries.

    The spread of the country will also help in combating infection. The only problem is containing the virus in Moscow and St Pete's.

    Italy were one of the first in EU to close borders with China as well.

    Yeah but we did not close the borders from other EU countries,  and many people could still travel from China to Italy doing some intermediate step in other european countries (and not only, i know of cases in which the ministryof foreign affairs instructed italians temporarily residing in China to come back via indirect flight (e.g from other Asian countries).

    Anyway, apparently the contagion was brought from southern  Germany to Italy, and then it spread quite fast.

    Unfortunately there were a lot of idiots that when they saw that the north of Italy was getting shut down they left in hurry assaulting trains and roads. Among those idiots both people originally from the south but living or studying in Lombardy and also people from the north of Italy having a second house somewhere in the south. Many of those spread the virus to other regions, but we do not know yet how bad it will be. In the next few days we hope to see a reduction of the number of new cases in northern Italy,  due to the quarantine measures.

    Basically zero discipline by both the government and the public.   That is nothing like Russia where both the government and the public
    can impose and put up with restrictions of hedonic "freedom".   Russia still retains features of the USSR that restrict 3rd world migrations
    of people so Russians cannot just willy nilly pack their bags and move to other cities without a residence permit.   They are free to go to
    their cottages in the hinterland, however.    Now we see the brilliance of such limitations on "freedom".
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    Post  Regular Mon Mar 23, 2020 3:47 pm

    kvs wrote:More vapid plausibility arguments and outright lies.

    How the f*ck would those Moscow and St. Petersburg gastarbeiters result in a massive delay in the spread of the disease?   You
    just invoked Italy as some BS counter-argument where you concocted the "fact" that it closed its borders to China early.   Supposing
    your concoction is right, then Russia's gastarbeiters should have resulted in widespread infection just as with Italy.    

    No, Italy did not engage the border control and quarantine that Russia did.   Keep on making up more "facts" and you will just
    become a total joke for the ignore list.

    https://euobserver.com/coronavirus/147543

    You are deliberately ignoring the "hug a Chinese" virtue signaling to concoct your claim that Italy acted just like Russia with its
    border controls and quarantine.  


    What outright lies? Do I look like fucking vann- I say what I see - Idi nahuy if you don't like it.

    I am saying that coronashite can hit Russian metropolitan cities as hard due to density of population and due to high use of public transport. How can you deny this can't happen? How do you think it spreads?

    Gostarbeiters live like dogs in their packs - most of the time they spend outside, exposed to people like themselves. They don't care about their health and before this coronashite they were the ones carrying TBC and were the headache for Moscow officials to catch those fuckers.

    Am I lieing about this? About Ukrainian khohol, kazakh and other type of ruberoids being disease vectors that spread diseases in public transport in Moscow? Russian health ministertry does put central asian biomass as big fucking risk - their countries are so africa-tier that they don't even have fluorography done. I do watch Russian TV and later I will pull you out video from Vesti around 2015 about TBC epidemic that involved gostarbeiters. Or you can yandex this?

    Russian border control was absolute shite until recently if you could reroute from SK, like most of Russians who got stuck did when virus was in full swing. There were no checks done. I know this personally as I have family who had to come back after their studies got cancelled. How many italians who got tested postive were traveling from China-Russia-Italy?

    And that hug chinese - just another example why Russia should let Italy choke on their own lungs. Keep all the good stuff for themselves, let everyone die and hunker up. Simple as that. No one will say thanks to Russia for anything.

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    Post  Rodion_Romanovic Mon Mar 23, 2020 3:49 pm

    kvs wrote:
    Rodion_Romanovic wrote:
    Regular wrote:
    nero wrote:
    Regular wrote:Nice gesture from Russia, but sure as shit, 4-5 weeks later Russia might need this themselves. This is natural progression of virus...

    They were one of the first to close borders with China & put people coming back from infected countries into quarantine... unlike many EU countries.

    The spread of the country will also help in combating infection. The only problem is containing the virus in Moscow and St Pete's.

    Italy were one of the first in EU to close borders with China as well.

    Yeah but we did not close the borders from other EU countries,  and many people could still travel from China to Italy doing some intermediate step in other european countries (and not only, i know of cases in which the ministryof foreign affairs instructed italians temporarily residing in China to come back via indirect flight (e.g from other Asian countries).

    Anyway, apparently the contagion was brought from southern  Germany to Italy, and then it spread quite fast.

    Unfortunately there were a lot of idiots that when they saw that the north of Italy was getting shut down they left in hurry assaulting trains and roads. Among those idiots both people originally from the south but living or studying in Lombardy and also people from the north of Italy having a second house somewhere in the south. Many of those spread the virus to other regions, but we do not know yet how bad it will be. In the next few days we hope to see a reduction of the number of new cases in northern Italy,  due to the quarantine measures.

    Basically zero discipline by both the government and the public.   That is nothing like Russia where both the government and the public
    can impose and put up with restrictions of hedonic "freedom".   Russia still retains features of the USSR that restrict 3rd world migrations
    of people so Russians cannot just willy nilly pack their bags and move to other cities without a residence permit.   They are free to go to
    their cottages in the hinterland, however.    Now we see the brilliance of such limitations on "freedom".
    i hope that a good chunk of those people will end up in jail, but I have my doubts... what pisses me off is that they do not even think about the consequences for their own families. One of this idiots after returing to Sicily from Lombardy visited her grandfather in a retirement house and now more than 16 people in that structure have been tested positive to Covid19.
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    Post  Regular Mon Mar 23, 2020 4:01 pm

    No, they wont.
    Most countries don't have means to punish these people.

    Even laws in Russia only apply if you are proven to infect someone, but you can escape 4856400 times and nothing will happen if you are not proven to infect someone. Good luck with 14 day incubation period.

    УК РФ статья ст 236

    http://www.consultant.ru/document/cons_doc_LAW_10699/5c403b6bfc15c73864f56d40c8a28cd51e72f86c/

    Young people don't give a flying fuck, no matter what country. I kid you not, check how many "escapees" were caught across the world.

    Ok, boomer. You die from this not me

    They need big old military belt with a metal end slapped across their asses. Disgusting westernised generation with no responsibility.
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    Post  PapaDragon Mon Mar 23, 2020 7:24 pm

    JohninMK wrote:
    Vann7 wrote:
    my prediction is .............................
    That people round here will probably read even less of your posts than they did before as you have stepped up the volume of your text. Laughing

    Clearly you must be isolating at home with more time on your hands to fill. Shocked


    Personally I just use search function to find several keywords in his posts and drop some facts

    Nobody in their right mind would read that autistic trash he craps out lol1

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    Post  ahmedfire Mon Mar 23, 2020 8:16 pm




    Global coronavirus cases cross 350,000, death toll passes 15,000 as pandemic takes hold



    Coronavirus pandemic 2019-20 - Page 8 10643111
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    Post  Regular Tue Mar 24, 2020 12:15 am

    Very good take by Anatoly

    Western Journalists Really Want There to be a Huge Corona Epidemic in Russia

    https://www.unz.com/akarlin/corona-wishes/

    What are your predictions about Ukraine? Do they stand a chance with no ventilation units and 3 digit tests?
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    Post  Vann7 Tue Mar 24, 2020 12:27 am

    Regular wrote:
    kvs wrote:More vapid plausibility arguments and outright lies.

    How the f*ck would those Moscow and St. Petersburg gastarbeiters result in a massive delay in the spread of the disease?   You
    just invoked Italy as some BS counter-argument where you concocted the "fact" that it closed its borders to China early.   Supposing
    your concoction is right, then Russia's gastarbeiters should have resulted in widespread infection just as with Italy.    

    No, Italy did not engage the border control and quarantine that Russia did.   Keep on making up more "facts" and you will just
    become a total joke for the ignore list.

    https://euobserver.com/coronavirus/147543

    You are deliberately ignoring the "hug a Chinese" virtue signaling to concoct your claim that Italy acted just like Russia with its
    border controls and quarantine.  


    What outright lies? Do I look like fucking vann-  I say what I see - Idi nahuy if you don't like it.

    I am saying that coronashite can hit Russian metropolitan cities as hard due to density of population and due to high use of public transport. How can you deny this can't happen? How do you think it spreads?

    Am I lieing about this? About Ukrainian khohol, kazakh and other type of ruberoids being disease vectors that spread diseases in public transport in Moscow? Russian health ministertry does put central asian biomass as big fucking risk - their countries are so africa-tier that they don't even have fluorography done. I do watch Russian TV and later I will pull you out video from Vesti around 2015 about TBC epidemic that involved gostarbeiters. Or you can yandex this?



    so where i was lying ? go ahead and tell me where id i told lies.. Rolling Eyes
    I only post facts ,whenever i see them.. and it is an opinion ,i also clearly say when it is..
    So go ahead and explain when i lied idiot ? if you are not going to backup your claims ,the shut up and
    put me in your ignore list ..and shut up. i could care less about what you think ... personally never you provide
    any important information in the forum that i care.

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    Post  Vann7 Tue Mar 24, 2020 12:37 am

    JohninMK wrote:
    Vann7 wrote:
    my prediction is .............................

    That people round here will probably read even less of your posts than they did before as you have stepped up the volume of your text. Laughing

    Clearly you must be isolating at home with more time on your hands to fill. Shocked


    there is the ignore option... so people that don't want to read long post and want to be idiots for the
    rest of their lives so be it..  people with low IQ.. will always exist .. and not expecting that to change
    any time soon. have seen worse in CNN forums and F16.net ..  Smile   aside of Papa guy and kvs.. possibly
    the most ignorant people in the forum , everyone else in the parameters of what to expect in a politics
    and military discussion. Smile
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    Post  JohninMK Tue Mar 24, 2020 12:56 am

    Vann7 wrote:
    JohninMK wrote:
    Vann7 wrote:
    my prediction is .............................

    That people round here will probably read even less of your posts than they did before as you have stepped up the volume of your text. Laughing

    Clearly you must be isolating at home with more time on your hands to fill. Shocked


    there is the ignore option... so people that don't want to read long post and want to be idiots for the
    rest of their lives so be it..  people with low IQ.. will always exist .. and not expecting that to change
    any time soon. have seen worse in CNN forums and F16.net ..  Smile   aside of Papa guy and kvs.. possibly
    the most ignorant people in the forum , everyone else in the parameters of what to expect in a politics
    and military discussion. Smile
    I don't put anyone on ignore. Some of your posts are concise and interesting. But many of them, like the one I commented on, are just a wall of text. If you want people to read what you write you need to lay it out more attractively, in shorter more easily read sections.

    Take what you have just written above. No capital letters, no real sentences, just a block of words. This is it repacked

    "There is the ignore option so people that don't want to read long post and want to be idiots for the rest of their lives.

    So be it, people with low IQ will always exist and not expecting that to change any time soon. Have seen worse in CNN forums and F16.net Smile

    Aside of Papa guy and kvs, possibly the most ignorant people in the forum, everyone else in the parameters of what to expect in a politics and military discussion. Smile"
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    Post  GarryB Tue Mar 24, 2020 6:26 am

    If this virus kills both the old and the young. Then the same metric applies. But this time the distinction is between the afflicted and the not afflicted. The not afflicted by saving lives of the afflicted, are then afflicted by loss of income or illness. It then becomes a question of what number is greater. The greatest number of productive lives that can be saved. And these may not even be children. But economic active healthy adults. With a chance to reproduce, in near future to replace the population. When cure is found........

    You assume they will find a cure, or that a cure is possible.... what you are suggesting that they just need to develop a cure for the common cold... they have lots of tools and methods but even if they had a cure right now they will need a new cure next year because the virus is alive and it evolves and changes...

    The people hit pretty hard are doctors and nurses who will be tired... working long hours and extra shifts... how many of them will die this year... how long to train replacements?


    This is how diplomatic 'win friends and influence people' is done, look at the poster below, genius. Russia and especially China are giving the US/West an object lesson.

    Italy voting against EU/Russian sanctions extension anyone?

    The hostility and aggression never came from Russia... it always came from the EU via the US and eastern european countries with a stick up their butts.

    Russia has an advantage- due to 90s bullshit Russian population is not as old as Italian. Russians are heavy smokers, but not on the same level as Chinese. So, naturally - you can expect less people belonging to risk groups. Russia does produce OK amount of ventilators as well. They can boost the production to meet the demand quite easily.

    Russia has the other advantage of lots of alcohol distilleries so they should have no problem creating enormous volumes of hand sanitiser... Vodka or Gin with a bit of Aloh Vera or something would be fine.
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    Post  Regular Tue Mar 24, 2020 9:28 am

    ^^

    No matter what russians do- they are evil in the eyes of others. Russian is the new Jew. I don't think russians should worry that much - there's so much Russia can do after this economic chaos is over. It can become economic powerhouse.

    Funny thing, if russians go abroad even in Georgia, their tourist money is very very appreciated by the locals. Not to mention how all the countries love dirty russian oligarchs and their money. Then all the politcal divide disappears - as long as Russians buy overpriced victorian-shite bungalow or a crickety house in Cyprus.

    On related news, I think Russian gov is reading this forum  Laughing

    Tomorrow Russia will be proposing new regulations that would help to enforce quarantine. So people can expect fines and jail time if they don't adhere to self-isolation orders from medics.

    https://tass.ru/obschestvo/8061051

    I wonder, how are these people feeling who shared their great escapes on Vk and other social media. Would love to see them persecuted, but I doubt it can be backtracked.
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    Post  nomadski Tue Mar 24, 2020 10:32 am


    In the absence of a vaccine, then quarantine and disinfection and ventilators are only thing left. But for a quarantine to work, it has to be total for a period of nine days. Total shut down. So virus dies in environment. And the afflicted either recover at home or they are taken to isolation units, where they recover or die. Then all areas disinfected. This total, but short term quarantine, can effectively be a cure. But it has to be total. Government can prepare for this.
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    Post  ahmedfire Tue Mar 24, 2020 11:13 am



    The people hit pretty hard are doctors and nurses who will be tired... working long hours and extra shifts... how many of them will die this year... how long to train replacements?

    At the begining of february ,more than 3,300 of the 78,800 coronavirus cases in China are among healthcare workers. cry
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    Post  JohninMK Tue Mar 24, 2020 11:35 am

    GarryB wrote:

    You assume they will find a cure, or that a cure is possible.... what you are suggesting that they just need to develop a cure for the common cold... they have lots of tools and methods but even if they had a cure right now they will need a new cure next year because the virus is alive and it evolves and changes...

    You are right, but even with every medical team in the World able to work on it working on it (there is a lot of glory and money at stake here ) its going to be a tough nut to crack. Especially, as now, this flu will be a moving target, constantly evolving. The winner will make a fortune as, like last time (remember Tamiflu?) it will be panic bought around the World.

    Because of that, with its timescale, I think, just as with the cold and other flu, it will be much easier, faster and cheaper to find a drug or a combination of drugs that mitigate the effects.

    A case of not trying to stop everyone getting it but making sure that when they do the effects, both personal and on the health systems, are nowhere near as bad as they are now.


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