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    VVS Russian Air Force: News #2

    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB on Sun Apr 30, 2017 9:24 am

    Payload is in the 10-14 tons range so this is more accurately described as a medium lift helo really.
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    Post  PapaDragon on Thu May 04, 2017 5:56 pm


    Rehearsal pic:

    VVS Russian Air Force: News #2 - Page 13 PIh38DTQV2o

    If anyone has some more with Moscow City in the background please post
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    Post  George1 on Sun May 14, 2017 4:54 am

    NEW YORK, May 14. /TASS/. Russia’s Su-27 fighter has flown close to a US Navy P-8A Poseidon reconnaissance plane in the Black Sea in a second similar incident this week, Fox News reported on Saturday night citing a US defense official.
    More:
    http://tass.com/defense/945753
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    Post  marcellogo on Sun May 14, 2017 4:45 pm

    GarryB wrote:Payload is in the 10-14 tons range so this is more accurately described as a medium lift helo really.
    Same range of CH-47 so Heavy, I know russian have evan better birds but for the international standard is quite a lot.
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    Post  moskit on Thu May 18, 2017 1:32 pm

    http://warisboring.com/looks-like-the-russians-tried-to-lure-u-s-stealth-fighters-into-an-intel-trap/??what the Russians could have achieved from this??? russia
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    Post  AlfaT8 on Thu May 18, 2017 2:15 pm

    moskit wrote:http://warisboring.com/looks-like-the-russians-tried-to-lure-u-s-stealth-fighters-into-an-intel-trap/??what the Russians could have achieved from this??? russia

    Very odd operation if true, first off the SU-35s would not be using there radars full capabilities and above all the F-22s have always been carrying external tanks in that area, and an A-50, very strange, it would make more sense for Russia to modify the Bear with some sensing gear instead.
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    Post  PapaDragon on Thu May 18, 2017 7:18 pm

    AlfaT8 wrote:
    moskit wrote:http://warisboring.com/looks-like-the-russians-tried-to-lure-u-s-stealth-fighters-into-an-intel-trap/??what the Russians could have achieved from this??? russia

    Very odd operation if true, first off the SU-35s would not be using there radars full capabilities and above all the F-22s have always been carrying external tanks in that area, and an A-50, very strange, it would make more sense for Russia to modify the Bear with some sensing gear instead.

    End goal here is to (if possible) tweak Su-35 radar to be able to properly detect low observable aircraft. That would be why they were there.

    F-22 is observable in this setup but they were probably also trying to ''separate'' aircraft signature from observable add-ons, hence A-50.
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    Post  AlfaT8 on Thu May 18, 2017 10:09 pm

    PapaDragon wrote:
    AlfaT8 wrote:
    moskit wrote:http://warisboring.com/looks-like-the-russians-tried-to-lure-u-s-stealth-fighters-into-an-intel-trap/??what the Russians could have achieved from this??? russia

    Very odd operation if true, first off the SU-35s would not be using there radars full capabilities and above all the F-22s have always been carrying external tanks in that area, and an A-50, very strange, it would make more sense for Russia to modify the Bear with some sensing gear instead.

    End goal here is to (if possible) tweak Su-35 radar to be able to properly detect low observable aircraft. That would be why they were there.

    F-22 is observable in this setup but they were probably also trying to ''separate'' aircraft signature from observable add-ons, hence A-50.  

    Come now PD, one's you have the data you can make the adjustments, but that data doesn't need to be gathered by the SU-35 itself.

    Yes, i got that, seeking other emissions other then RCS for Passive systems, i would still put that gear in a Bear, since Raptors don't mind flying close to one.
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    Post  PapaDragon on Thu May 18, 2017 11:07 pm

    AlfaT8 wrote:..............

    Come now PD, one's you have the data you can make the adjustments, but that data doesn't need to be gathered by the SU-35 itself.

    Yes, i got that, seeking other emissions other then RCS for Passive systems, i would still put that gear in a Bear, since Raptors don't mind flying close to one.

    I'm not saying Su-35 was gathering any data of course but they were there for reference.
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    Post  miketheterrible on Thu May 18, 2017 11:26 pm

    In this case, the Su-35 has a form of sensor fusion thus it would be able to pick up data from its passive systems without the F-22 being able to detect that. As well, they could fit the bear with any kind of radar system to be able to track and gather intelligence.

    Either way, chances are, the Russians gathered data.
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    Post  Guest on Fri May 19, 2017 9:35 pm

    PapaDragon wrote:
    AlfaT8 wrote:
    moskit wrote:http://warisboring.com/looks-like-the-russians-tried-to-lure-u-s-stealth-fighters-into-an-intel-trap/??what the Russians could have achieved from this??? russia

    Very odd operation if true, first off the SU-35s would not be using there radars full capabilities and above all the F-22s have always been carrying external tanks in that area, and an A-50, very strange, it would make more sense for Russia to modify the Bear with some sensing gear instead.

    End goal here is to (if possible) tweak Su-35 radar to be able to properly detect low observable aircraft. That would be why they were there.

    F-22 is observable in this setup but they were probably also trying to ''separate'' aircraft signature from observable add-ons, hence A-50.  

    From what i am aware F-22s and F-35s have been flying with reflectors attached till now in areas where they could have been "inspected".
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    Post  Singular_Transform on Fri May 19, 2017 9:58 pm

    Militarov wrote:

    From what i am aware F-22s and F-35s have been flying with reflectors attached till now in areas where they could have been "inspected".

    That means they need closer inspection to get usable data : )
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    Post  AlfaT8 on Fri May 19, 2017 10:46 pm

    Singular_Transform wrote:
    Militarov wrote:

    From what i am aware F-22s and F-35s have been flying with reflectors attached till now in areas where they could have been "inspected".

    That means they need closer inspection to get usable data : )

    Yes, a good old fashion Serbian inspection. Wink
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    Post  GarryB on Sat May 20, 2017 8:24 am

    From what i am aware F-22s and F-35s have been flying with reflectors attached till now in areas where they could have been "inspected".

    So if they flew in Syrian air space they could be shot down with any old SAM system because radar reflectors can't be turned on and off AFAIK...

    Next someone will claim the F-117 that was shot down in the Kosovo campaign also had reflectors and was not really stealth so the shoot down does not count...

    Sounds to me like an excuse....
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    Post  Guest on Sat May 20, 2017 9:02 pm

    GarryB wrote:
    From what i am aware F-22s and F-35s have been flying with reflectors attached till now in areas where they could have been "inspected".

    So if they flew in Syrian air space they could be shot down with any old SAM system because radar reflectors can't be turned on and off AFAIK...

    Next someone will claim the F-117 that was shot down in the Kosovo campaign also had reflectors and was not really stealth so the shoot down does not count...

    Sounds to me like an excuse....

    They cant, radar reflectors are attached and can be removed on the ground.

    Well, reflectors are kinda a thing since fairly recently, to evade gathering radar signatures. Those F-22s that were in Europe recently all had em. I am just saying.
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    Post  Isos on Sat May 20, 2017 10:07 pm

    Militarov wrote:
    GarryB wrote:
    From what i am aware F-22s and F-35s have been flying with reflectors attached till now in areas where they could have been "inspected".

    So if they flew in Syrian air space they could be shot down with any old SAM system because radar reflectors can't be turned on and off AFAIK...

    Next someone will claim the F-117 that was shot down in the Kosovo campaign also had reflectors and was not really stealth so the shoot down does not count...

    Sounds to me like an excuse....

    They cant, radar reflectors are attached and can be removed on the ground.

    Well, reflectors are kinda a thing since fairly recently, to evade gathering radar signatures. Those F-22s that were in Europe recently all had em. I am just saying.

    Do you have some articles ?

    The thing posted by Moskit is for F-22 based in the US so maybe they were flying without reflectors.
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    Post  GarryB on Sat May 20, 2017 11:51 pm

    Well, reflectors are kinda a thing since fairly recently, to evade gathering radar signatures. Those F-22s that were in Europe recently all had em. I am just saying.

    You are right... in peace time away from any real threats they do carry reflectors... it means potential enemies can't capture intel like radar signatures, but more importantly it means civilian and military air controllers can see them and other civilian traffic can see them to avoid accidents.

    The thing is that you don't fly into enemy airspace with those things on...
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    Post  Guest on Sun May 21, 2017 12:08 am

    Isos wrote:
    Militarov wrote:
    GarryB wrote:
    From what i am aware F-22s and F-35s have been flying with reflectors attached till now in areas where they could have been "inspected".

    So if they flew in Syrian air space they could be shot down with any old SAM system because radar reflectors can't be turned on and off AFAIK...

    Next someone will claim the F-117 that was shot down in the Kosovo campaign also had reflectors and was not really stealth so the shoot down does not count...

    Sounds to me like an excuse....

    They cant, radar reflectors are attached and can be removed on the ground.

    Well, reflectors are kinda a thing since fairly recently, to evade gathering radar signatures. Those F-22s that were in Europe recently all had em. I am just saying.

    Do you have some articles ?

    The thing posted by Moskit is for F-22 based in the US so maybe they were flying without reflectors.

    Just stuff of this sort: http://www.chinatopix.com/articles/113970/20170505/f-22-35-stealth-fighters-evade-detection-device-makes-visible.htm
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    Post  Guest on Sun May 21, 2017 12:11 am

    GarryB wrote:
    Well, reflectors are kinda a thing since fairly recently, to evade gathering radar signatures. Those F-22s that were in Europe recently all had em. I am just saying.

    You are right... in peace time away from any real threats they do carry reflectors... it means potential enemies can't capture intel like radar signatures, but more importantly it means civilian and military air controllers can see them and other civilian traffic can see them to avoid accidents.

    The thing is that you don't fly into enemy airspace with those things on...

    In general, yes. However apparently US has decided to use few types of minor reflectors to twist radar image of fighters in these days of, more or less peace to hide as much as possible of EW emissions and signatures.

    Rumor says multiple types of reflectors were made with different reflective surfaces to suit various needs.
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    Post  Singular_Transform on Sun May 21, 2017 12:15 pm


    http://www.popsci.com/diy/article/2010-06/diy-synthetic-aperture-radar-system-250

    From close proximity the details of the plane visible quite well by a radar.


    So I don't think that the lenses/ prisms help too much to hide the shape / characteristic of the plane.
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    Post  Isos on Sun May 21, 2017 2:41 pm


    Just stuff of this sort: http://www.chinatopix.com/articles/113970/20170505/f-22-35-stealth-fighters-evade-detection-device-makes-visible.htm

    It's says the developement of such things for their 5th gen fighters started in 2010 so before F-22 didn't have them. They can always try to analyse its signature with a small radar imported in US by spies dunno

    But I think the main reason for using reflletors is because US are aware that they are not as stealth as they said. The main advantage for them of having F-22 is they can say what they want untill someone has the chance to analyse it. It's more a psychological weapon than a true fighter, it's main weapon is it's secracy not it's stealth or radar ... I mean it's 80s technology and they pretend that today's technology can't compete against it. Even the F-35 which cost 100 times more to develop ( with dev tools of today which are million times better than in the 80s as a computer today can make billions of operations per sec while in the 80s humans had to do all by themselves...) is less effective than the F-22. For me it's bullshit.
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    Post  Guest on Sun May 21, 2017 4:50 pm

    Singular_Transform wrote:<img src="http://www.popsci.com/sites/popsci.com/files/styles/small_1x_/public/import/2013/images/2010/06/f14.jpg?itok=IIo17nPC" >
    http://www.popsci.com/diy/article/2010-06/diy-synthetic-aperture-radar-system-250

    From close proximity the details of the plane visible quite well by a radar.


    So I don't think that the lenses/ prisms help too much to hide the  shape / characteristic of the plane.

    Emm... reflectors...radar...reflectors...
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    Post  KiloGolf on Sun May 21, 2017 5:01 pm

    Isos wrote:

    Just stuff of this sort: http://www.chinatopix.com/articles/113970/20170505/f-22-35-stealth-fighters-evade-detection-device-makes-visible.htm

    It's says the developement of such things for their 5th gen fighters started in 2010 so before F-22 didn't have them. They can always try to analyse its signature with a small radar imported in US by spies dunno

    But I think the main reason for using reflletors is because US are aware that they are not as stealth as they said. The main advantage for them of having F-22 is they can say what they want untill someone has the chance to analyse it. It's more a psychological weapon than a true fighter, it's main weapon is it's secracy not it's stealth or radar ... I mean it's 80s technology and they pretend that today's technology can't compete against it. Even the F-35 which cost 100 times more to develop ( with dev tools of today which are million times better than in the 80s as a computer today can make billions of operations per sec while in the 80s humans had to do all by themselves...) is less effective than the F-22. For me it's bullshit.

    The amount of money pumped towards aerospace and defense in the US during Reagan admin is probably unimaginable. F-22 sits on solid ground to be the dominant air superiority fighter for the USAF. At the moment no other country has the quality+numbers to compete with that. And it's not just LO features, you got powerful engines, supercruise, Mach 2, declared cruising altitude of 60,000 feet. And much more kept on the down low.
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    Post  Singular_Transform on Sun May 21, 2017 5:18 pm

    Militarov wrote:
    Singular_Transform wrote:
    http://www.popsci.com/diy/article/2010-06/diy-synthetic-aperture-radar-system-250

    From close proximity the details of the plane visible quite well by a radar.


    So I don't think that the lenses/ prisms help too much to hide the  shape / characteristic of the plane.

    Emm... reflectors...radar...reflectors...

    Electromagnetic radiation on different wavelength.
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    Post  Isos on Sun May 21, 2017 6:17 pm

    The amount of money pumped towards aerospace and defense in the US during Reagan admin is probably unimaginable. F-22 sits on solid ground to be the dominant air superiority fighter for the USAF. At the moment no other country has the quality+numbers to compete with that. And it's not just LO features, you got powerful engines, supercruise, Mach 2, declared cruising altitude of 60,000 feet. And much more kept on the down low.

    That's exactly what I said. With the cost of the F-35 you can do easily a better fighter than the F-22 even if it had great amount of money for the research. Or at least something that is close. F-35 is closer to a F-18 silent hornet than from the F-22 spécifications. If you don't have the technology money won't change anything.

    Today they have all the work done on F-22 + a far better technologies but yet they admit F-35 is worst than f-22. Both of them are from the same country, same companies worked on both planes. That's what I'm saying. For me it's suspicious.

    And like I said all the data you are providing are from US official and no other source had the chance to see closer if it was true.

    I'm not saying it's a bad fighter. It's excellent but not invincible like they discribe it evrywhere.

    PS: Reagan was the one who ordered the "star wars" plan which was a big fake. Patriot PAC-3 was meant to be a part of it and look how it is bad compare to S-400.




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