Tu-160 "White Swan"

has anyone found anything to indicate if the TU-160 can supercruise?

mnztr wrote:has anyone found anything to indicate if the TU-160 can supercruise?

It can't

Removed all the stuff about replacing carriers with strategic bombers and and the arctic etc etc.... to the talking bollocks thread in the general chat section.

Tu-160M ​​first took to the air with new engines

MOSCOW, November 3 - RIA Novosti. The deeply modernized Tu-160M bomber made its maiden flight with new engines, the United Aircraft Corporation (UAC) reported .
"The first flight of Tu-160M ​​with new production engines NK-32-02 took place at the KAZ aerodrome named after Gorbunov. The plane was piloted by the crew led by Anri Naskidyants. The flight took place at an altitude of 6,000 meters and lasted 2 hours and 20 minutes," the company noted.

https://ria.ru/20201103/dvigatel-1582868395.html

Nice pic of the NK-32-02

Maximmmm wrote:It's really good news. Kuznetsov was really struggling to restart production since the whole factory had gone to the dogs. Only 2 year delay in delivering the engines is pretty acceptable imho, considering how much work had to be done. Plus it's a modernized variant.
If you would have told me 10 years ago we'd be seeing new production Tu-160s flying soon I'd have been giddy.

Correct me if I am wrong, but this is not the M2 TU-160. Its a completed older frame and a testbed for the new avionics.

That´s why he wrote "new Tu-160 flying soon".

There were four unfinished Tu-160s when the Ukraine stopped cooperating... two of which were completed but two more that could not be completed because the box structure that houses the swing wing structure is huge and is made of titanium that has to be wielded in a low oxygen forge... the only place on the planet that could do that was now in the Ukraine, so they were never going to complete those two planes because the cost of building a forge big enough to complete them would be enormously expensive and not something that could be justified to finish two planes.

Fortunately for Tupolev Russia has decided to make the PAK DA which will be a large flying wing made of large titanium sections with large one piece box structures that required a similar forge to the one used to make the original Blackjacks... but in this case built in Russia.

Who knows they might use the same facility to make the PAK DP high speed interceptor...

The point is that now they can build more Blackjacks and make them into a viable and useful fleet of aircraft that will become more affordable... with fifty more aircraft that means 200 more engines and unification with the Tu-22M3M design means 60 of those will need another 120 engines so that is 320 engines they need which makes developing a brand new engine viable as well... and guess what... the engine for the subsonic strategic range PAK DA flying wing that will be based on this new engine will also be useful for long range airliners and heavy and super heavy transports as well... a gift that just keeps giving.

The first 16 odd Blackjacks were different... lots of changes.... a bit like prototypes in many ways... but now they can focus on a new revised and improved design they can apply to new planes and to upgrade older planes to this new standard so they will be cheaper and easier to service... right now they likely have a service manual for each aircraft showing the differences and different equipment etc... not so efficient or desirable.

Will the last 2 unfinished be completed or will they just go ahead with the M2 variant?

Maximmmm wrote:It's really good news. Kuznetsov was really struggling to restart production since the whole factory had gone to the dogs. Only 2 year delay in delivering the engines is pretty acceptable imho, considering how much work had to be done. Plus it's a modernized variant.
If you would have told me 10 years ago we'd be seeing new production Tu-160s flying soon I'd have been giddy.

Pretty acceptable? Two years is miraculous. Even China with all its massive resources couldn't pull something off like this.
As for the USA, it is hard to tell what engine innovation they actually have. I do not think they evenhave an NK-32 class engine.
The GE F101 is basically half of the NK-32. Given the rot in the US MIC, it would take more than 2 years for even just an
improved version of GE F101 to be put into service. And that is without losing the production infrastructure.

People are always putting Russia down, whether consciously or subconsciously. All that hate propaganda has effectively
propagated in the world information space. There are simply no objective comparisons and 100% spin instead.

LMFS wrote:Actually they had big delays providing the engine (it was not a two years project) and the whole Tu-160 restart program has been a massive struggle, but it is definitely worth the effort, such a platform is priceless...

Correct, it was a massive pain in the ass but they pressed on and are now back in the game

Contrast that with stuff like Soviet lunar program where they dumped shitload of time and money only to give up right before the end zone just because they weren't first anymore

Maybe they will use the NK-32 for the PAK-DP? The Mig-31 already has 70K lbs of thrust, so 110K on a larger airframe would make for a pretty potent interceptor capable of carrying all kinds of weapons.

LMFS wrote:Actually they had big delays providing the engine (it was not a two years project) and the whole Tu-160 restart program has been a massive struggle, but it is definitely worth the effort, such a platform is priceless...

Would you really claim it was a hohum non-achievement if the "delay" was 8 years? As we see from the PAK-FA engines, it takes a long time
to come out with new ones and reworking old ones to get 10% more fuel economy is not some nose picking exercise.

If we were in 1999 nothing would be happening at all and only a Ukrainian style dissolution would be in progress. Russia should thank its
lucky starts for Putin's "regime" and the various "delayed" military projects. BTW, military projects are not civilian projects so a lot of the
yapping about delays is BS. Delays relative to what?

Will the last 2 unfinished be completed or will they just go ahead with the M2 variant?

As far as I know the two that could be completed were completed and the unfinished two have also been completed on the equipment built for new build Blackjacks and in the future new build PAK DAs.

So the new planes they have gotten are not Tu-160M2s, they are essentially Tu-160s likely upgraded to the current M standard.

Tu-160 was expensive even for USSR.

It's a shame that they let Ukraine destroy plenty of them.

It was made much more expensive by not having enough to make them an effective fleet.

Regarding Ukraine... Russia didn't get much choice in the matter, but now they have production capacity in Russia that is a problem of the past.

That is just Ukraine doing what they do sadly.

Maybe they will use the NK-32 for the PAK-DP?

AFAIK the PD-35 will be developed from the NK-32 and will be used in the PAK DA and in their new An-22 and An-124 replacements... the PAK DA needs a turbofan/ramjet type... the NK-32 would probably be too big and heavy for that job.

The Mig-31 already has 70K lbs of thrust, so 110K on a larger airframe would make for a pretty potent interceptor capable of carrying all kinds of weapons.

To operate at mach 4.2 it wont be using a turbofan or turbojet engine except for takeoff and landing... the rotational speed needed to operate at such flight speeds would destroy any conventional turbojet or turbofan engines... it would be like using rubber tires on a motor bike that can travel at mach 1.5... at that rotational speed the rubber would disintegrate causing the bike to crash... the turbine blades in a conventional jet engine can't operate above about mach 2.8 without damage.

kvs wrote:Pretty acceptable?   Two years is miraculous.   Even China with all its massive resources couldn't pull something off like this.  
As for the USA, it is hard to tell what engine innovation they actually have.   I do not think they evenhave an NK-32 class engine.  
The GE F101 is basically half of the NK-32.   Given the rot in the US MIC, it would take more than 2 years for even just an
improved version of GE F101 to be put into service.   And that is without losing the production infrastructure.
...

You are correct. They do not. But the US does have civilian subsonic engines of that weight class (think 787 engines) and larger (think 777X engines).
They can "simply" use that engine core and militarize it. It won't be as hard as designing a new engine but it won't be as difficult either.
A Boeing 787 engine has between 28 and 34 ton thrust. A Boeing 777X engine has 48 ton thrust.

For reference the PD-35 will have 35 ton thrust. So that puts it roughly in the Boeing 787/Airbus A330 class.
The PD-35 (35 ton) is going to be a new engine based on a scaled up PD-14 (14 ton) core. Not based on NK-32 at all.
There was talk about using the NK-32 on the CRAIC 929 instead of PD-35.
But PD-35 should have better performance since it is more modern design.
It will use a lot of new technologies for Russian engines including carbon composite cold fan blades and SiC (ceramic) hot section parts.

Isos wrote:Tu-160 was expensive even for USSR.

It's a shame that they let Ukraine destroy plenty of them.

They didn't let them do anything of the kind.  How could they stop them, short of paying the absurd ransom that Kiev was originally demanding?  The US was dripping its poisoned words into the Ukropi ear to get them to destroy the airframes, so Russia was probably lucky that she was able to salvage the aircraft that she did.

Screw Ukraine and everything about that misbegotten decrepit shithole.  A pox on them till the end of days.