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    US-Iran standoff 2019- #2

    nomadski
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    Post  nomadski on Thu Jan 23, 2020 6:58 pm

    @ Radion

    I see now. I thought you said this,......... go to Afghanistan...... To mean that, there is no place, or should be no place for Iranians, in this beautiful Christian paradise of European fame.  And yes I agree that  regional countries can work together to build these nations. Of course Iran is critical in this, since it shares in history and language. Why Russia and America could not succeed in Afghanistan. And Iran could.

    @ Vann7

    I also heard that Yanks are hiding casualties of Rocket attack, by mixing them with other casualties. If true, all the more reason for them to leave region. If they can not take casualties in war with Iran.

    @ Tsavo

    I remember a Gorjistan family in Tehran in 1960. A very good friend of family. The mother of family used to do beautiful needlework and father of family collected matchboxes. They were refugees after revolution in Russia. Gorji people are welcome in Iran. And vice versa.


    Last edited by nomadski on Thu Jan 23, 2020 7:14 pm; edited 3 times in total
    JohninMK
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    Post  JohninMK on Thu Jan 23, 2020 7:00 pm

    Vann7 wrote:

    casualties in the next report potentially connected with the iranian attack on US base..

    https://www.rt.com/newsline/478946-australia-water-tanker-missing/

    but reported as a crash on australia ,combating fires..

    That's a pretty tasteless comment.

    The converted Canadian owned C-130 firefighting plane came down with a normal crew of 3 US onboard. That crew had decades of experience firefighting in aircraft. To suggest that somehow the crash never occurred is crass.

    RIP that crew doing a dangerous job a long way from home.
    Tsavo Lion
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    Post  Tsavo Lion on Thu Jan 23, 2020 7:17 pm

    Why Russia and America could not succeed in Afghanistan. And Iran could.
    They don't control the Farsi speaking areas & Cyrus the Great was killed to the North of there. Some years ago they threatened to invade after some Iranians were killed by the Talibs but decided not to in the end. Iran could succeed in W. Afghanistan only; other areas r best left for Pakistan, China & Russia to be dealt with.
    nomadski
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    Post  nomadski on Thu Jan 23, 2020 8:01 pm

    I remember putin gave money to Iran, about 3 billion USD, to give to Afghan, for aid. Because the Afghan would not accept money direct from Russia. After war there. But recently Taliban talked to Russia direct. So less problem now. And also Taliban talked to Iran direct. If yank forces leave, then Taliban can make peace with central Kabul admin.

    To stop the mess of break up of nations for influence of big powers. Like so many places. Then donating country can give aid to central admin. For equal investment in region. For fair share. Also if in region where say Iranian less welcome. Then Chinese / Pakistan  security force and Afghan forces can provide labour and security. Other areas may be different.  As you say, in West and North, Iran security or Russian security forces.

    Roads and Rail first. North South for Russia to Pakistan or Iran. East to west for China and Iran. Yanks won't invest in Afghanistan. Just in Army, to keep territory. Not nation building. India has expressed interest. Iranian port of Chahbahar leased to India, for trade to Afghan.

    https://www.mashreghnews.ir/photo/1034402/%D8%B9%DA%A9%D8%B3-%D8%AD%D8%B6%D9%88%D8%B1-%DA%A9%D9%85-%D9%86%D8%B8%DB%8C%D8%B1-%D9%85%D8%B1%D8%AF%D9%85-%D8%B9%D8%B1%D8%A7%D9%82-%D8%AF%D8%B1-%D8%AE%DB%8C%D8%A7%D8%A8%D8%A7%D9%86-%D9%87%D8%A7%DB%8C-%D8%A8%D8%BA%D8%AF%D8%A7%D8%AF

    Here Iraqi people demonstrate in their millions, against American presence in Iraq.


    Last edited by nomadski on Fri Jan 24, 2020 1:02 pm; edited 1 time in total
    Rodion_Romanovic
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    Post  Rodion_Romanovic on Thu Jan 23, 2020 10:38 pm

    @ nomadski



    I was just having dinner with a Georgian friend.

    You were right, he confirmed that the name Georgia comes from the persians. Gorgestan, land of the wolves. Also the king that founded Tbilisi, Vakhtang Gorgasali, had a name of persian origin (wolf's head) and was himself half persian.

    By the way, Hiberia (before 'Hibria) as a name was given when (around the 5th or 6th century before Christ) many exiled Jews settled up in Georgia (especially in Mtshketa, the old capital).
    Tsavo Lion
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    Post  Tsavo Lion on Fri Jan 24, 2020 6:15 pm

    As I guessed: https://lenta.ru/news/2020/01/20/f35_iran/

    Ukrainian Boeing: Persians are preparing an answer?
    https://regnum.ru/news/polit/2838755.html

    https://www.pravdareport.com/world/144245-international_security_system/

    US Envoy: Soleimani Successor Faces 'Same Fate'
    Centcom General: US Troop Surge to Mideast 'May Not End Soon'
    Dutch and Danish FFGs to Support French Maritime Mission in the Persian Gulf
    US Imposes Fresh Sanctions on Two People, Six Companies
    US Bars Iranians From Entering on Trade and Investment Visas
    Conflict Between the US and Iran Would Be a 'Disaster': Pakistan PM
    https://antiwar.com/

    To m, it looks like the calm before the storm: an escalation is coming.
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    Post  Tsavo Lion on Fri Jan 24, 2020 6:17 pm

    As I guessed: https://lenta.ru/news/2020/01/20/f35_iran/

    Ukrainian Boeing: Persians are preparing an answer?
    https://regnum.ru/news/polit/2838755.html

    https://www.pravdareport.com/world/144245-international_security_system/

    US Envoy: Soleimani Successor Faces 'Same Fate'
    Centcom General: US Troop Surge to Mideast 'May Not End Soon'
    Dutch and Danish FFGs to Support French Maritime Mission in the Persian Gulf
    US Imposes Fresh Sanctions on Two People, Six Companies
    US Bars Iranians From Entering on Trade and Investment Visas
    Conflict Between the US and Iran Would Be a 'Disaster': Pakistan PM
     https://antiwar.com/

    To me, it looks like the calm before the storm: a 2nd round of escalation is coming.
    nomadski
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    Post  nomadski on Fri Jan 24, 2020 7:29 pm

    Agree. Iranians want a later, but Yanks want a sooner confrontation. That is why they are getting ready now to release true number of casualties in Iran missile strike. Maybe because Iranians will not give black box to France and revealing perhaps direct shoot down of passenger plane.

    And since getting a nuclear detterent is going to take years. And getting fighter jet going to take years. And I don't believe Iran economy getting stronger. And people start to loose confidence. Loosing the psychological advantage that exist now. Then resistance forces are ready. They should strike now. Patience or caution not useful. IMHO.

    The Hawks and Democrats under Clinton / Biden wanted immediate war, if they won election. Trump wanted it later. First he wanted to choke. This killing of Soliemani, was  I think pressure by war lobby and Zionist. Wanting a war for profit motive. I said before, that it may have been, because of  yank loosing ground in Syria or Iraq. But I have changed my mind. The yanks are increasing number of bases in Syria and Iraq. Any skirmishes would be retaliated by their Airforce. So militarily no point in rushing to war. Also the sanctions working. Pompeo said once, that they are not in hurry for war. I think this was still Trump position. Choke them to death. And as far as Iranian nukes being a problem. I believe not. The political apparatus in Iran long compromised by Liberals. No real plan for nukes. Against religion ! Iranians would have just played with enrichment figures and jest forever. And " negotiate" Iran into defeat. Then liberals claim power officially.

    So now the Democrat /Zionist war lobby are pushing Trump out of power. And Republican doing horse trading over impeachment  and giving in to war, to keep Republican in power . A war for profit. And that is the Hawk's mistake. They could not hold back greed. Therefore Iran in stronger position now, than five years from now. Economy and people not completely broken. They attacked too early. And that is why the resistance force must strike with full power and now. Forget about playing with enrichment figures or hope of building fighter jet in twelve years. Fight with what you have. The confidence and unity of people and AK47. And a few ballistic missiles.
    Regular
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    Post  Regular on Fri Jan 24, 2020 10:57 pm

    Rodion_Romanovic wrote:@ nomadski



    I was just having dinner with a Georgian friend.

    You were right, he confirmed that the name Georgia comes from the persians. Gorgestan, land of the wolves. Also the king that founded Tbilisi, Vakhtang Gorgasali, had a name of persian origin (wolf's head) and was himself half persian.

    By the way, Hiberia (before 'Hibria) as a name was given when (around the 5th or 6th century before Christ) many exiled Jews settled up in Georgia (especially in Mtshketa, the old capital).

    I go to Georgia quite often. They call their country Sakartvelo and hate it when people call it Gruziya (Georgia).

    OK place for tourism, meh vines, good meat dishes. Much much much safer place than Ukraine imho. Even after 080808 war anti-russian sentiment is not even near to Ukrainian one where you can stopped by SBU for hours if you happen to suspected russian "spy".
    Tsavo Lion
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    Post  Tsavo Lion on Fri Jan 24, 2020 11:00 pm

    Then Iran will loose & weaken more, which may trigger a civil war, to be invaded by China & Russia lest no1 else does.
    Rodion_Romanovic
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    Post  Rodion_Romanovic on Fri Jan 24, 2020 11:40 pm

    Tsavo Lion wrote:Then Iran will loose & weaken more, which may trigger a civil war, to be invaded by China & Russia lest no1 else does.
    US is capable of causing enormous damage to Iran, but not to occupy or to control it, and I doubt that a second color revolution in Iran would be successful. Anyway if US decides on a path of real war against Iran, that would be the beginning of the end for them as well...
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    Post  yavar on Sat Jan 25, 2020 12:49 am

    Pentagon has revealed 34 U.S. troops suffered traumatic brain injuries in Iran IRGC ballistic missiles strike in Iraq bases
    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/jan/24/us-soldiers-iran-traumatic-brain-injury-pentagon


    kvs
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    Post  kvs on Sat Jan 25, 2020 1:07 am

    Regular wrote:
    Rodion_Romanovic wrote:@ nomadski



    I was just having dinner with a Georgian friend.

    You were right, he confirmed that the name Georgia comes from the persians. Gorgestan, land of the wolves. Also the king that founded Tbilisi, Vakhtang Gorgasali, had a name of persian origin (wolf's head) and was himself half persian.

    By the way, Hiberia (before 'Hibria) as a name was given when (around the 5th or 6th century before Christ) many exiled Jews settled up in Georgia (especially in Mtshketa, the old capital).

    I go to Georgia quite often. They call their country Sakartvelo and hate it when people call it Gruziya (Georgia).

    OK place for tourism, meh vines, good meat dishes. Much much much safer place than Ukraine imho. Even after 080808 war anti-russian sentiment is not even near to Ukrainian one where you can stopped by SBU for hours if you happen to suspected russian "spy".

    They hate Gruziya because they are svidomite revisionists and haters. Gruzin is nothing like Eskimo. Eskimo was the derogatory term for Inuit
    created by sub-Arctic Indians and means literally "meat eater" (as in obsessed with meat). The usual brain dead name calling by ignorant clowns
    who don't have the mental capacity to figure out that the Inuit can hardly grow/gather enough veggies in their 1 month long summer in a land without
    even shrubbery to survive.

    Why hasn't Gruziya changed its name to Sakartvelo officially? Nothing is stopping it.

    Rodion_Romanovic
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    Post  Rodion_Romanovic on Sat Jan 25, 2020 4:19 am

    kvs wrote:
    Regular wrote:
    Rodion_Romanovic wrote:@ nomadski



    I was just having dinner with a Georgian friend.

    You were right, he confirmed that the name Georgia comes from the persians. Gorgestan, land of the wolves. Also the king that founded Tbilisi, Vakhtang Gorgasali, had a name of persian origin (wolf's head) and was himself half persian.

    By the way, Hiberia (before 'Hibria) as a name was given when (around the 5th or 6th century before Christ) many exiled Jews settled up in Georgia (especially in Mtshketa, the old capital).

    I go to Georgia quite often. They call their country Sakartvelo and hate it when people call it Gruziya (Georgia).

    OK place for tourism, meh vines, good meat dishes. Much much much safer place than Ukraine imho. Even after 080808 war anti-russian sentiment is not even near to Ukrainian one where you can stopped by SBU for hours if you happen to suspected russian "spy".

    They hate Gruziya because they are svidomite revisionists and haters.   Gruzin is nothing like Eskimo.   Eskimo was the derogatory term for Inuit
    created by sub-Arctic Indians and means literally "meat eater" (as in obsessed with meat).   The usual brain dead name calling by ignorant clowns
    who don't have the mental capacity to figure out that the Inuit can hardly grow/gather enough veggies in their 1 month long summer in a land without
    even shrubbery to survive.

    Why hasn't Gruziya changed its name to Sakartvelo officially?  Nothing is stopping it.


    The name (endonym or autonym) is officially Sakartvelo in Georgian (Kartuli)
    However they prefer that the name of the country in other languages (exonym or xenonym) is something similar to Georgia and not to Gruziya.

    For me it does not make any sense. Should I tell the polish people to stop calling Italy whlochy or should the germans (exonym for Deutsche) ask france to stop calling them allemands?

    I do not understand the reason if it, also because both names (georgia and Gruziya) come from abroad and do not have anything to do, from an etymological point of view with the endonym Sakartvelo (and anyway, when the persians gave the name of gurgistan they did not have a common name for themselves as a country, since as far as I understand at that there were a few separate kingdoms without a common denomination.

    Anyway, a part of the reason could be a perceived betrayal from Russia when Georgia asked for protection both in the 18th century and later after the dissolution of USSR.

    This is a topic that I am interested in, but is probably worth of a different thread, since it has not much to do with the situation between Iran and America.
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    Post  yavar on Sat Jan 25, 2020 5:03 am

    Iran President Rouhani in letter to Europeans (The U.K., France and Germany, EU3) to quit Non-Proliferation Treaty (NPT) if referred to the UN Security Council
    https://tn.ai/2187043

    nomadski
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    Post  nomadski on Sat Jan 25, 2020 9:49 am

    @ KVS

    Agree. The problem in the world, is subjugation of weaker or minority groups by larger or more powerful groups. To do this, then local or indigenous population is subject to cultural imperialism. Historical revisionism. No different in Gorjistan. Yet the different areas and people have their own identity. Right now Gorjistan is subject to malign European influence. Politically being locked into NATO and culturally being locked into Europe. The problem of the name of country, does not end there . Also name of district Cholchi, derived from Persian word of Qala or Fort. Etc etc etc....... The revisionist Europhiles and NATO worshippers, try hard to corrupt the history of Gorjistan. It is cultural genocide.


    @ Tsavo

    Agree. Given the present dynamic. Iran will be dragged into defeat. And the Liberals, prefer to be defeated by Yanks. As one of them told me, not long ago.

    @ Regular

    If they hate the name Gurji, then it is kind of self hate. I believe that Gorgi, is top favourite name. Also town called Gurjianni. I have seen this self hate in other Eurofile society. I was on holiday in Turkey port of Bodram. I visited a historic cemetery. There the Turkish tourist board, had removed grave stones with Arabic script. Leaving those with Latin script, for European tourist to look at. Also I visit Morocco Hotel. Full of French tourist. There I greeted the staff with customary  Arabic greeting of " Salam Alaikum". But the Arab staff never replied in Arabic. Choosing French greeting instead. For fear of offending Tourist. But there is so much history in Georgia, that politics can not remove easily.

    @ Radio

    It does not matter, if I choose a name for myself, because I thought about it, or if someone gave a name to me and I decided to use it. It does not matter, if Christianity or Islam was invented by Georgians or not. If they choose to adopt any religion, it is their choice. The problem is forcing change on people, against their interests or will . For political reason. Or ignoring historical facts, for political reason. BTW, Iranians have always had a name for themselves. As Iranians or Aryans or Arrans. The connection between Gorgi or Gurg or Gorgan, is undeniable. As is name of many places in Georgia or Gurjistan. Also there are many links to Rome or Greece in antiquity.

    Iranians did not force name of German on The  European people. They were never a vassal state of Iran. Yet in Iran a town called Kerman or Cerman. Undoubted voluntary  identification by people themselves. So should Germans change name by force, because someone in power does not like it? And deny link between two tribes or people?


    https://en.mehrnews.com/news/154955/Six-satellites-ready-to-be-launched-into-space-ICT-min

    https://en.mehrnews.com/news/154941/Iran-s-uranium-stockpile-surpasses-1-200-kilograms

    So, 1200 kg of 5 % = 60 kg of 100%. Or 10 kg per warhead. Fission device = Nagasaki or 113 kg warhead of fusion device = 100 kiloton. For six ICBM.......... ( 1) Trump golf course,  ( 2) Trump Bordello in Canada  ( 3 ) His taupee...


    https://youtu.be/bQm_B5oJomc
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    Post  Tsavo Lion on Sun Jan 26, 2020 7:53 pm

    Iran ahead of the Apocalypse?https://regnum.ru/news/polit/2839900.html

    What can Armenia expect in the conflict between Iran and the USA?
    https://regnum.ru/news/polit/2839692.html


    Last edited by Tsavo Lion on Sun Jan 26, 2020 8:08 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : add link)
    nomadski
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    Post  nomadski on Mon Jan 27, 2020 8:07 pm

    https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/defence-blog.com/news/u-s-air-force-e-11a-aircraft-crashed-in-south-west-afghanistan.html/amp

    If Bombardier took off from Ghazni Airport, then from location of crash, this is 30 km distance. It takes two minutes for this plane to reach 30 km distance at speed of 900 km/h. Rate of climb for Bombardier e11, is 1400 feet per minute. This puts plane at altitude of  3000 feet. The Taliban say, they downed plane. If they have no decent AD system. Then could this be by MANPAD? What altitude was Bombardier at? Who supplied SAM? MYSTERY DEEPENS.........If plane took off from Kabul or Kandahar, then altitude much higher. Does Taliban have long range SAM?
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    Post  Tsavo Lion on Mon Jan 27, 2020 8:25 pm

    Kandahar is 308 miles from the Iranian border.
    While helicopters have proven vulnerable and accident-prone in Afghanistan, the loss of a US fixed-wing aircraft is relatively rare.
    But the Taliban are not believed to have the sorts of anti-aircraft missiles needed to bring down a high-flying aircraft.
    The plane involved is an E-11A, one of only four in the whole US Air Force.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-51264744

    While Iran couldn't shoot it down with S-300 from its territory, it probably could sneak it into Afghanistan. Ot it could hack/jamm its avionics to cause to crash in the mountains, in a tit- for tat.


    Last edited by Tsavo Lion on Mon Jan 27, 2020 8:46 pm; edited 1 time in total
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    Post  nomadski on Mon Jan 27, 2020 8:39 pm

    Some observers have said that, in this crash, it is claimed there were 80 casualties. The same number of casualties that Iran claimed for missile attack against yank base of Ain - Al - Assad in Iraq. Also the body of plane in remarkable good shape, for crashed plane. Not disintegrated. Looks like landed and caught fire. They may be hiding victims of rocket attack, by engineering air crash? MYSTERY DEEPENS.........


    https://www.mashreghnews.ir/news/1035623/%D8%A7%D9%88%D9%84%DB%8C%D9%86-%D9%81%DB%8C%D9%84%D9%85-%D8%A7%D8%B2-%D8%B3%D9%82%D9%88%D8%B7-%D9%87%D9%88%D8%A7%D9%BE%DB%8C%D9%85%D8%A7%DB%8C-%D8%A2%D9%85%D8%B1%DB%8C%DA%A9%D8%A7%DB%8C%DB%8C-%D8%AF%D8%B1-%D8%BA%D8%B2%D9%86%DB%8C
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    Post  Tsavo Lion on Mon Jan 27, 2020 8:56 pm

    It could also be be an inside job or a UAV rammed it.
    Given the situation in the region, it'll be a long time before we r told the truth, if ever.
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    Post  nomadski on Tue Jan 28, 2020 9:36 am

    https://en.mehrnews.com/news/155038/Taliban-says-targeted-a-US-helicopter-after-downing-US-plane

    The Taliban claim an American Helicopter downed also. No confirmation yet. To see if there is any significant military change on the ground. We have to wait. If number of downed planes or Helicopters increase, suddenly, then the Taliban may be getting new weapons. Iran may be providing these. Doing to Yanks, what Yanks did to Soviets, using same method and people. Since reduction or elimination of yank air power, in Afghanistan, will benefit them greatly. While Afghan ground forces remain intact. So balance of ground forces will not change. No net territorial gain for any side in Afghanistan. Looks like good tactics. Iran then replacing Yanks as king maker in Afghanistan. Peace between different sides.


    Also news about sattelite launches. Good news. That future plans to make three stage, solid / solid / solid sattelite launcher. Good idea, since these can be used as ICBM, on mobile launchers. Without problems of fuelling the engines, and rapid reaction times. Better route to go than liquid fuel engines.
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    Post  JohninMK on Tue Jan 28, 2020 10:59 am

    nomadski wrote:Some observers have said that, in this crash, it is claimed there were 80 casualties. The same number of casualties that Iran claimed for missile attack against yank base of Ain - Al - Assad in Iraq. Also the body of plane in remarkable good shape, for crashed plane. Not disintegrated. Looks like landed and caught fire. They may be hiding victims of rocket attack, by engineering air crash? MYSTERY DEEPENS.........

    All we have to go on for analysis is the plane and crash site. Its unlikely the US will say more.

    My thoughts are, from the sooty trail in the snow, its possible the plane came down already in flames trying to land and was then totally engulfed in flames when it came to rest. We do not know if, given its contents, it had a self destruct mode. The soot may of course have just been the planes burnt contents falling from the sky downwind.

    The figure of 80 passengers is way off. In standard configuration it carries 13. Strip out the luxury seating it will carry more but then add in all the comms gear, consoles etc and it will probably carry less, 10 max inc crew?



    GARRY, can you move these posts to the Afghan thread please, they don't really belong here?
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    Post  JohninMK on Tue Jan 28, 2020 11:22 am

    This post however is very relevant to this thread.


    The EC-11 that went down seems, from the before crash photos of it, to be a very different configuration to the others. In particular as it does not have the large antenna housing above and below the fuselage that are needed for its comms traffic relay mode. Maybe it had a different function.

    There is growing social media chatter that, a CIA person known as the Prince of Darkness, Michael D'Andrea, who was in charge of the CIA's anti-Iran operations, was in fact killed yesterday in a plane crash in Afghanistan, which the Iranian-backed Taliban claims to have downed. He was killed alongside 4 other people, including 2 USAF pilots & 2 CIA figures.

    Apparently the Taliban has verified this to the Iranians, who in turn passed the message to the GCC states. There is a gruesome photograph of one of the passengers who died, & he has the same profile as D'Andrea.

    On Wiki Michael D'Andrea was in present tense on 26 january 2020 - according to Google Cache. In the last day, one word was changed in the whole page- from "Michael D'Andrea is an officer of the Central Intelligence Agency, " to "Michael D'Andrea was an officer of the Central Intelligence Agency".

    If he was one of the several CIA officers among the dead it is a big loss for US and good retaliatory strike (if true) for Iran. The Dark Prince Mike was indeed head of CIA anti-Iran operations and likely played a big part in the Soleimani assassination. We may never know for sure, but the premature departure of CIA officers is always good for the rest of humankind.


    Much of the above extracted from posters in this thread https://www.moonofalabama.org/2020/01/the-air-war-in-afghanistan-expands-on-both-sides.html#more
    JohninMK
    JohninMK

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    US-Iran standoff 2019- #2 - Page 15 Empty Re: US-Iran standoff 2019- #2

    Post  JohninMK on Tue Jan 28, 2020 12:49 pm

    A good photo that show the difference in terrain on either side of the Gulf. Easy tank country hard to defend on the west side as per Iraqi wars versus almost impossible tank country easy to defend in Iran.

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