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    Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #6

    The-thing-next-door
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    Post  The-thing-next-door Thu Oct 15, 2020 12:07 pm

    PapaDragon wrote:
    Sarmat doesn't have NATO designation yet

    I thought it was getting the same name as the R-36, but with a 2 on the end.

    If you are talking about SS-18 Satan it's the coolest name for a weapon ever given


    When you consider who is firing it and who it is being fired at I think you will find the name rather unfitting. When it was used by the Soviets it was less silly, but still silly.

    Perhaps Russia should name thier next missile utopian or liberator seeing as it's use would actually improve the world a fair bit.
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    Post  GarryB Fri Oct 16, 2020 4:56 am

    When you consider who is firing it and who it is being fired at I think you will find the name rather unfitting. When it was used by the Soviets it was less silly, but still silly.

    Satan was particularly stupid as a name for a missile used by athiests... the devil is part of the western religious delusion...

    I remember in the 1980s when the west found out the Muj called the Mi-24 the devils chariot in Afghanistan... so they started calling it that... the problem was that it was a purely practical description for them on their holy war... the infidels are devils therefore everything they rode in was the devils chariot... BMPs, tanks, helicopters, etc etc which really makes the name meaningless...
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    Post  The-thing-next-door Fri Oct 16, 2020 2:13 pm

    GarryB wrote:the devil is part of the western religious delusion...

    Western? How much do you even know about Russian culture?


    The point I was making is that it is a really stupid name for a missile in Russian service and even in Soviet service it was still stupid considering who its targets were.
    kvs
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    Post  kvs Fri Oct 16, 2020 7:40 pm

    The-thing-next-door wrote:
    GarryB wrote:the devil is part of the western religious delusion...

    Western? How much do you even know about Russian culture?


    The point I was making is that it is a really stupid name for a missile in Russian service and even in Soviet service it was still stupid considering who its targets were.

    WTF. The tag "Satan" is pure NATzO BS and not Soviet/Russian. The SS-18 "Satan" is the properly tagged RS-36M Voevoda.
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    Post  SeigSoloyvov Fri Oct 16, 2020 9:07 pm

    GarryB wrote:
    When you consider who is firing it and who it is being fired at I think you will find the name rather unfitting. When it was used by the Soviets it was less silly, but still silly.

    Satan was particularly stupid as a name for a missile used by athiests... the devil is part of the western religious delusion...

    I remember in the 1980s when the west found out  the Muj called the Mi-24 the devils chariot in Afghanistan... so they started calling it that... the problem was that it was a purely practical description for them on their holy war... the infidels are devils therefore everything they rode in was the devils chariot... BMPs, tanks, helicopters, etc etc which really makes the name meaningless...

    Um.....you do know the main religion within Russia is Orthodox Christianity, I believe its beginnings are in some versions of the new testament.

    So yes garry they do believe in Satan and God etc.

    Pretty ignorant to state its "Western delusion" when that is the second biggest religion in the world...your comment just shows how blind you are due to your hate, I wonder how much crap you blame on the West when you don't understand basic information....
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    Post  GarryB Sat Oct 17, 2020 1:31 pm

    Hey dickhead... how Orthodox Christian as Stalin... or the other Soviet leaders that followed him?

    Communism was Athiest... probably its best feature in my opinion.

    Show me a 2,000 year old book on mixing paint or building a house or keeping bees that makes sense in this day and age... what... none?

    So why would anyone based their religious beliefs on a book written back then?

    You wouldn't even accept what they say about personal hygiene but you think they had a direct line to talk to god?

    Yeah.... I am the fool.
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    Post  PapaDragon Sat Oct 17, 2020 4:44 pm

    GarryB wrote:Hey dickhead... how Orthodox Christian as Stalin... or the other Soviet leaders that followed him?

    Communism was Athiest... probably its best feature in my opinion.

    Yeah, no need for food which saves money and helps protect the environment from pesticides used in agriculture Cool



    GarryB wrote:Show me a 2,000 year old book on mixing paint or building a house or keeping bees that makes sense in this day and age... what... none?

    Keeping bees? Paint? Almost all of them

    Vast majority of those remained useful for way longer than this one:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Das_Kapital


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    Post  LMFS Sat Oct 17, 2020 11:36 pm

    Sorry to interrupt with a Su-57 related topic pwnd

    We have an explicit mention of fuel tanks for the internal weapon bays here, I think it went unnoticed as the news is mainly about Novosibirsk plant:

    https://bmpd.livejournal.com/4165063.html

    We need to understand what are the differences between the two models mentioned...

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    Post  LMFS Sun Oct 18, 2020 12:34 am

    Charly015 analysed the internal load Su-57 vs F-35:

    Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #6 - Page 20 Su-57%2Bvs%2BF-35%2Bfurtivo

    https://charly015.blogspot.com/2020/10/comparando-configuraciones-de-armamento.html

    He does not address that apart from having twice the A2G payload, Su-57 has twice the speed and probably 1.5 times the range, so the compared military value is several times bigger... and it is not that F-35 is a light or cheap fighter, because it is definitely not.

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    Post  Gomig-21 Sun Oct 18, 2020 7:26 pm

    Honestly, I am -- and have been since the first flight by Sergei Bogdan back in 2010 I think it was -- quite skeptical that those two protrusions or whatever they're called by the LERX and kinda between the wing root and the LEVCONs if they're actually R-73 compartments. Has there been any information given by Sukhoi or any of the big wig generals or spokespersons that those two compartments are actual housings for missiles and most likely R-73s would seem to barely fit in there?

    There's also the question of is there enough room for the bracing mechanism that holds the missile in place that would need to fit in there as well as extrude partially before it fires it. Doesn't seem to be enough room for all of that inside that space and wing thickness. So there are certainly some issues that go against those two protrusions being viable missile-holding compartments.

    Can't wait to see this thing in its final, active status. It really is a sleek bird.

    Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #6 - Page 20 EkjmQyHW0AEdR3f?format=jpg&name=large
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    Post  LMFS Mon Oct 19, 2020 12:40 am

    Gomig-21 wrote:Honestly, I am -- and have been since the first flight by Sergei Bogdan back in 2010 I think it was -- quite skeptical that those two protrusions or whatever they're called by the LERX and kinda between the wing root and the LEVCONs if they're actually R-73 compartments.  Has there been any information given by Sukhoi or any of the big wig generals or spokespersons that those two compartments are actual housings for missiles and most likely R-73s would seem to barely fit in there?  

    There's also the question of is there enough room for the bracing mechanism that holds the missile in place that would need to fit in there as well as extrude partially before it fires it.  Doesn't seem to be enough room for all of that inside that space and wing thickness.  So there are certainly some issues that go against those two protrusions being viable missile-holding compartments.

    Can't wait to see this thing in its final, active status.  It really is a sleek bird. 

    They are indeed weapon bays, 100% sure. Patent, videos, drawings, payload diagrams etc. have been already released, it is pretty much everything in the thread. The missile is the R-74M, which has smaller wings for internal carriage.

    The final appearance of the operational Su-57 is that of prototypes 10 and 11 from what has been said, and in a couple of weeks the first fully operational plane (second serially produced unit) should be delivered to VKS
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    Post  GarryB Mon Oct 19, 2020 8:28 am

    Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #6 - Page 20 Aa-57110

    This looks pretty official to me... and notice the wing root location for weapon locations 6 and 5 which it states can carry one izd 760 missile, which is the R-74M2.

    No other missile type there can be carried in that location in that weapon category at the moment.

    I would think because of the size an shape restraints that such a missile could eventually be carried in twins or triples on external hard points 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, and 12 in the future... possibly in tandem triples depending on the length.
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    Post  marcellogo Mon Oct 19, 2020 1:04 pm

    GarryB wrote:Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #6 - Page 20 Aa-57110

    This looks pretty official to me... and notice  the wing root location for weapon locations 6 and 5 which it states can carry one izd 760 missile, which is the R-74M2.

    No other missile type there can be carried in that location in that weapon category at the moment.

    I would think because of the size an shape restraints that such a missile could eventually be carried in twins or triples on external hard points 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, and 12 in the future... possibly in tandem triples depending on the length.

    I can't possibly image something so against the Russian (after Soviet one) praxis than twin and triples on external points.
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    Post  marcellogo Mon Oct 19, 2020 3:07 pm

    And i'm not so sure that the image indicate that just a single missile will fit in each of the 4 part in which the main bomb bay is divided.
    Graphic rendering is different showing two missiles in two different spaces, not one in four different ones.
    So I would read it as two missiles in each of 2&4 and two in each of the 1&3 rows.
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    Post  Isos Mon Oct 19, 2020 4:01 pm

    They already fired r-74 from the weapons bay. Well, it looks like they did. And they also have this small r-77 on the top which seems to be for the small weapons bay.

    Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #6 - Page 20 Uadi6610

    Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #6 - Page 20 19qxzv10

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    Post  Gomig-21 Mon Oct 19, 2020 8:56 pm

    That missile shot was so quick and when the video started, it looked like it was either on a rail or maybe, just maybe it had already come out of that supposed weapon's bay but definitely didn't see any doors open or anything to indicate it came out of there. But I will take all your words for it and I did see that graphic in that video that Gary posted and if that's an official graphic, then no one can argue with that for sure.

    It's just a shame that here the Su-57 is entering serial production and we haven't seen a single conclusive video of any of the weapons bays functioning or firing any missiles. I'm not sure what the strategy is with that?! One would think that if Sukhoi wanted to showcase the fighter to its fullest limit, they would be showcasing the fighter firing away from every single bay and every single direction. Really can't understand what the strategy is for not showing the weapons testing? Why hide it so adamantly like that?

    Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #6 - Page 20 Ekq-Ue2WMAAkXB9?format=jpg&name=large
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    Post  LMFS Mon Oct 19, 2020 11:01 pm

    Gomig-21 wrote:That missile shot was so quick and when the video started, it looked like it was either on a rail or maybe, just maybe it had already come out of that supposed weapon's bay but definitely didn't see any doors open or anything to indicate it came out of there.  But I will take all your words for it and I did see that graphic in that video that Gary posted and if that's an official graphic, then no one can argue with that for sure.

    There is a patent that explains every detail of how the system works, if you have any doubt about that. In general is IMHO not advisable to listen too much to Western paranoia about the alleged shortcomings of the Su-57. If we were talking about a Western plane and we had all the information about those bays that we have for the Sukhoi, including a detailed patent available for many years now, nobody in their right mind would question that those bays exist and work as intended, but since presumption of guilt is what rules for Russia, here we are, 10 years discussing whether the plane's bays are fake or real...

    It's just a shame that here the Su-57 is entering serial production and we haven't seen a single conclusive video of any of the weapons bays functioning or firing any missiles.  I'm not sure what the strategy is with that?!  One would think that if Sukhoi wanted to showcase the fighter to its fullest limit, they would be showcasing the fighter firing away from every single bay and every single direction.  Really can't understand what the strategy is for not showing the weapons testing?  Why hide it so adamantly like that?

    Well, the video of the of the side bays is completely conclusive to me, but I think you are answering yourself: they are clearly and for some reason not interested in showcasing the bays of the plane. US is designing NGAD right now, properly assessing the ultimate capabilities of the Su-57 lays at the very core of getting its needed dimensions and layout right. So if they ignore how many AAMs it can potentially carry, how fast it can release them etc., that is a bigger interest for Russia than showing off.

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    Post  Hole Tue Oct 20, 2020 12:32 am

    Blurry pic of the Su-57 with... something

    Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #6 - Page 20 Su-57_19
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    Post  magnumcromagnon Tue Oct 20, 2020 1:02 am

    Hole wrote:Blurry pic of the Su-57 with... something

    Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #6 - Page 20 Su-57_19

    Isn't that optical pods to observe weapon separation?

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    Post  Gomig-21 Tue Oct 20, 2020 5:29 am

    LMFS wrote:There is a patent that explains every detail of how the system works, if you have any doubt about that. In general is IMHO not advisable to listen too much to Western paranoia about the alleged shortcomings of the Su-57. If we were talking about a Western plane and we had all the information about those bays that we have for the Sukhoi, including a detailed patent available for many years now, nobody in their right mind would question that those bays exist and work as intended, but since presumption of guilt is what rules for Russia, here we are, 10 years discussing whether the plane's bays are fake or real...

    I don't go by your presumptive notion of listening to western paranoia about alleged shortcomings to the Su-57.  Geez I would never have guessed that would even be an impression one would get out of my post.  I go by all the literature I read, the progress updates of all the prototypes to date and like I mentioned, I've been following this thing since it's first flight and the only thing I haven't been privy to is any Russian lingo videos since I don't understand the language.  

    Sorry if it irritates you that here we are discussing it 10 years later, but no one is holding a gun and forcing you to engage in a public discussion TBH.  And frankly, I think it's actually an incisive discussion to bring such things to the open since before I posted this post, I  went through the entire thread to see if there was any discussion pertaining to those weapons bays and I didn't see any.  

    Also, I never implied that they were fake whatsoever!  That is you making a false assumption for whatever reason.  As far as my thinking, they could be EW pods similar to the Su-35 wingtip ones except here they're designed in a stealthy manner for obvious reason or they could be any other type of built-in electronics pod/device etc.  Never said they were fake.  Again, you assumed incorrectly for some strange reason.

    LMFS wrote:Well, the video of the of the side bays is completely conclusive to me, but I think you are answering yourself: they are clearly and for some reason not interested in showcasing the bays of the plane. US is designing NGAD right now, properly assessing the ultimate capabilities of the Su-57 lays at the very core of getting its needed dimensions and layout right. So if they ignore how many AAMs it can potentially carry, how fast it can release them etc., that is a bigger interest for Russia than showing off.

    And I don't think that is a viable reason whatsoever.  If it's the US or even Russia or China looking to get similar info on such a thing, they wouldn't need YouTube videos of test firing missiles to find out with all their spying capabilities. Sorry, don't buy that one bit and if that's in fact the reason, so be it.  And for the sake of moving on, maybe someday we'll get to see them in action.
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    Post  LMFS Tue Oct 20, 2020 6:51 am

    Gomig-21 wrote:I don't go by your presumptive notion of listening to western paranoia about alleged shortcomings to the Su-57.

    I didn't say you do, no need to take offence.

    Re. you searching in the thread: there is the video, the patent, the drawings few days before your post... I don't know how you did not see it. It rather seems you remain unconvinced by the evidence?

    Sorry if it irritates you that here we are discussing it 10 years later, but no one is holding a gun and forcing you to engage in a public discussion TBH.  And frankly, I think it's actually an incisive discussion to bring such things to the open since before I posted this post, I  went through the entire thread to see if there was any discussion pertaining to those weapons bays and I didn't see any.
     
    I am not irritated because of you, but because of the 10 years of baseless slandering against the plane.

    As far as my thinking, they could be EW pods similar to the Su-35 wingtip ones except here they're designed in a stealthy manner for obvious reason or they could be any other type of built-in electronics pod/device etc.  Never said they were fake.  Again, you assumed incorrectly for some strange reason.

    If you see a patent where it is said those are weapon bays, then a video showing missiles being fired from them and then a payload diagram showing them as weapons stations, you think that must be all misleading or wrong and they are instead ECM pods (shadowed by the wing / fuselage and close to the plane's own sensors)? And I am the one making incorrect assumptions for some strange reason?


    And I don't think that is a viable reason whatsoever.  If it's the US or even Russia or China looking to get similar info on such a thing, they wouldn't need YouTube videos of test firing missiles to find out with all their spying capabilities. Sorry, don't buy that one bit and if that's in fact the reason, so be it.  And for the sake of moving on, maybe someday we'll get to see them in action.

    There is a difference between making assumptions (which certainly they can make) and knowing from first hand. Are you sure US sources have had direct access to the bays and their details and layout, and also to the AAM roadmap? I remind you almost nothing has been shown of the many weapons being developed for the Su-57's internal bays. To me there is definitely some hiding of relevant tactical information going on, but that is just my opinion, of course you may not agree. If you have a better one I am happy to know about it

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    Post  thegopnik Tue Oct 20, 2020 7:37 am

    zzzzzzzz..............zzzzzzzzzzzzz.............zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz So many notifications on this thread but no news update on the aircraft which I am assuming these passed months we wont get any on the aircraft until either the 2021 or 2023 maks airshow. So just to make a list here out of boredom and probably after this list it might get a little lively which is something I want anyways so here is a Su-57(both versions) vs F-35(later block upgrades) feature list update. Feel free to add more or correct me.

    • 8-12 air to air missiles is what this board has estimated for internal load, F-35 went from 4 to 6.



    • The su-57 in terms of protection has a 360 radar coverage combined with 360 UV coverage with the option of QWIP IRST for 180 degree coverage, F-35 in comparison has 120 radar degree coverage with 360 degree infrared coverage. So I assume that the Su-57 will have more precision to deal with incoming air to air missiles. U.S. aviation fans love to argue that infrared is better than UV missile warning systems but I see disadvantages and even advantages one has over the other so there's that. Both can also passively sense radio transmissions but in my opinion the Su-57 does that better with 2,236 modules or even more(These past 10+ years I take it that they have upgraded the radars) + GaN EW system Himalayas



    • The F-35 is said to later use a 100 kilowatt DIRCM which I take it can physically destroy an air to air missile and there is this MSDM Miniature Self-Defense Munition which will use midget missiles against incoming air to air missiles. AFAIK the Su-57 DIRCM can only currently blind infrared sensors towards incoming adversary air to air missiles, suppress link 16 data transmission with L-band radars use its maneuverability and passive/active radar capabilities to give it enough time to avoid the incoming air to air missiles host radars. 2014 rostec stated GaN MMICs for himalayas, khlibiny-m and tarantula, su-57 got its EW systems in late 2014, Su-35 tested its new ones in 2016 and Su-34 received its in 2017 AFAIK they are only used for UHF and NGJ for EA-18 growlers cover UHF and VHF which is external so automatically the Su-57 is assumed being better at air to ground missions against SAMs. The possibility of ROFAR will give the 2nd version Su-57 the possibility to suppress MADL datalink on adversary air to air missiles and even the host radars of incoming  air to air missiles can be suppressed. Based on the responses here we do not know if the aircraft has a miniature missile defense in its 1st version or 2nd version and we do not know if they will upgrade the energy levels to destroy missiles for the 2nd version DIRCM.....But its more than likely guaranteed that the Su-57 does not have to physically destroy a missile if its able to leave that missile completely in the dark.



    • stealth is debatable as in no chance in hell we will get RCS estimates, avionics including upgrades lean to the Su-57s favor so next are weapons



    • F-35 has shown an image of the HAWC missile, and currently working on fielding the SiAW missile to be twice as fast and twice as long range as the AGM-88 so a 300km by mach 4 air to ground missile to be stored internally on the F-35(which was presented in 2018). Russia announced twice a kinzhal like missile is being developed to fit in the Su-57 and the Kh-58UShKE Missile introduced in 2007 is only mach 0.6 short and 55km range less than the SiAW while having the same dimensions. So with the announcement of new weapons for the 2nd version of Su-57, the only hope U.S. fan boys have is that in the passed 10-15 years all Russian rockets scientists have done is stroke their dicks and do nothing. But of course that is wishful thinking and they are quick in denial with my sources so we will wait later to see the obvious.



    • AIM-260 JATM is mach 5 and 200km, other states half length and same range as AIM-120, current k-77m is 193kms and ramjet version will be even longer. Wonder if new air to air missiles are being developed for the 2nd version aircraft.


    [/list]

    If I was to compare all pafka threads in f-16.net and I believe that if we combine all those threads and if they were always on front page the most pro-US aviation board they would be viewing the pafka program more in terms of view counts than they do with their one and only F-35 program thread which they had longer than those pafka program threads....But looking at the single F-35 thread with the many su-57 threads here in terms of view counts makes it look like this forum barely gives a shit about the F-35 so I decided to just break the ice here and compare its features and to what the Su-57 has.
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    Post  GarryB Tue Oct 20, 2020 10:44 am

    I can't possibly image something so against the Russian (after Soviet one) praxis than twin and triples on external points.

    I agree to a point, but bare in mind that this missile is the small compact internal carriage missile... so it is not the R-3 /13 or R-73... it is the R-60 equivalent weapon as used on the MiG-23 which did get an external twin pylon mount, because it was small and light so a twin mount made sense, while the small size and light weight of the missile meant taking up a weapon pylon it was easy enough to mount more than one on the pylon available.

    When I say small I don't mean physically small like the R-60 actually was... it was about 45kg in one version, but compact with small fins and control surfaces...

    So having two side by side on a missile pylon wouldn't take up a lot of space like a twin mount R-27 would for instance.

    Graphic rendering is different showing two missiles in two different spaces, not one in four different ones.
    So I would read it as two missiles in each of 2&4 and two in each of the 1&3 rows.

    I am assuming the green dots will be the normal loadout, presumably the green external pylons only carried when stealth is no longer an issue so a standard load out of two IZD 760 short range IR guided AAMs in the wing root internal weapon bays and four R-77M long range AAMs in the four main weapon bay positions will be the standard weapon layout... of course with the 30mm cannon and 150 rounds of ammo too.


    They already fired r-74 from the weapons bay. Well, it looks like they did. And they also have this small r-77 on the top which seems to be for the small weapons bay.

    I find that display of those three missiles rather confusing... the top missile seems to have the rear grid fins of the R-77... is it a 9M100?

    The middle missile looks like an R-73 but seems rather too big compared with the R-77 below it.

    And the R-77 below it has interesting body fins but standard rear grid fins which I thought they were getting rid of...

    It's just a shame that here the Su-57 is entering serial production and we haven't seen a single conclusive video of any of the weapons bays functioning or firing any missiles. I'm not sure what the strategy is with that?! One would think that if Sukhoi wanted to showcase the fighter to its fullest limit, they would be showcasing the fighter firing away from every single bay and every single direction. Really can't understand what the strategy is for not showing the weapons testing? Why hide it so adamantly like that?

    I suspect there are some details they want to keep secret for a while, but when they start pushing export sales of the aircraft they will likely have more details about weapon options if only for export...

    Isn't that optical pods to observe weapon separation?

    Could be, or could also be a targeting pod, for testing air to ground ordinance perhaps...

    Both can also passively sense radio transmissions but in my opinion the Su-57 does that better with 2,236 modules or even more(These past 10+ years I take it that they have upgraded the radars) + GaN EW system Himalayas

    With wingroot mounted L band AESA arrays the Su-57 can in theory detect HATO datalink communications which also work in L band...

    The F-35 is said to later use a 100 kilowatt DIRCM which I take it can physically destroy an air to air missile and there is this MSDM Miniature Self-Defense Munition which will use midget missiles against incoming air to air missiles. AFAIK the Su-57 DIRCM can only currently blind infrared sensors

    100 kilowatt lasers.... that is very impressive... but apart from appealing to fan boys on the internet what advantage does it offer above blinding the incoming missiles apart from using enormous levels of energy?

    ...F-35 so I decided to just break the ice here and compare its features and to what the Su-57 has.

    The main problem I see is that claims for the F-35 seem to exceed reality... it is stealthy, but the Su-35 and Su-30 seem to track it just fine... it will be getting super DIRCMs... but with a 100Kw laser why would it need any other type of weapon... it could just blow missiles and enemy aircraft out of the sky with this laser couldn't it?

    And proposed new ARM that is not that much superior to an ARM the Russians could have in service for 13 years already... and self defence AAMs... but again... with that laser.... why?
    LMFS
    LMFS

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    Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #6 - Page 20 Empty Re: Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #6

    Post  LMFS Tue Oct 20, 2020 6:49 pm

    @thegopnik: ok I will bait but I am very interested about some details you wrote down so I will also ask for links so we can form an opinion by ourselves Smile

    thegopnik wrote:So many notifications on this thread but no news update on the aircraft which I am assuming these passed months we wont get any on the aircraft until either the 2021 or 2023 maks airshow.

    Russia accelerates the state rearmament program and closes all sources of information... means nothing good in the big picture IMO, for us at the moment it means we receive even less information than we did before.

    8-12 air to air missiles is what this board has estimated for internal load, F-35 went from 4 to 6.

    I would not put our guesstimations on par with official data, what is known is 6 internal AAMs for Su-57.

    The su-57 in terms of protection has a 360 radar coverage

    300 deg isn't it? Do you have confirmation about the rear-facing radar?

    combined with 360 UV coverage with the option of QWIP IRST for 180 degree coverage,

    What device you refer with QWIP IRST, 101KS-V? I have seen no confirmation about this technology or coverage. 101KS-O should have 360 deg cover in IR shouldn't it?

    F-35 in comparison has 120 radar degree coverage with 360 degree infrared coverage.

    F-35's EO-DAS seems pretty advanced, I am not sure Russia has reached that level yet. IMO it would make sense for the second stage, but I admit I lack details about the current 101KS-U and their compared capabilities vs. IIR.

    but in my opinion the Su-57 does that better with 2,236 modules or even more(These past 10+ years I take it that they have upgraded the radars)

    For N036 the count was somewhere close to 1500 TRMs right?

    2014 rostec stated GaN MMICs for himalayas, khlibiny-m and tarantula, su-57 got its EW systems in late 2014, Su-35 tested its new ones in 2016 and Su-34 received its in 2017

    Do you maybe have the source?

    But its more than likely guaranteed that the Su-57 does not have to physically destroy a missile if its able to leave that missile completely in the dark.


    By now DIRCM is something Su-57 has while no US 5G fighter does... let us go step by step, only that already makes them extremely vulnerable in close quarters. No such update foreseen for F-22 that I know.

    F-35 has shown an image of the HAWC missile...

    Bays in the Sukhoi allow for much bigger payload, here the F-35 loses clearly. It is also normal due to size difference, but also the Russian designers deserve a lot of credit for coming up with such a good layout, they left the rest of 5G fighters in the dust in this regard.

    But looking at the single F-35 thread with the many su-57 threads here in terms of view counts makes it look like this forum barely gives a shit about the F-35 so I decided to just break the ice here and compare its features and to what the Su-57 has.

    You are probably right, essentially we don't give a damn about the F-35 lol1

    I personally think it is a very good plane in terms of engine, sensors, radar and in general in systems / technology aspects. So the engineering part is probably brilliant. But the program philosophy sucks and no amount of engineering and money can fully compensate for that. All the intelligence can be replicated later by other planes, but a deficient platform / air vehicle is going to be very hard and expensive to keep competitive, so they started the house by the roof so to say, instead of building good foundations to keep the plane capable for many decades to come. They are already wanting to substitute the F135, which is by far the best existing fighter engine, with the adaptive engines. For several thousands of planes that is not going to be cheap.

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    marcellogo
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    Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #6 - Page 20 Empty Re: Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #6

    Post  marcellogo Wed Oct 21, 2020 1:18 am

    GarryB wrote:
    I can't possibly image something so against the Russian (after Soviet one) praxis than twin and triples on external points.

    I agree to a point, but bare in mind that this missile is the small compact internal carriage missile... so it is not the R-3 /13 or R-73... it is the R-60 equivalent weapon as used on the MiG-23 which did get an external twin pylon mount, because it was small and light so a twin mount made sense, while the small size and light weight of the missile meant taking up a weapon pylon it was easy enough to mount more than  one on the pylon available.

    When I say small I don't mean physically small like the R-60 actually was... it was about 45kg in one version, but compact with small fins and control surfaces...

    So having two side by side on a missile pylon wouldn't take up a lot of space like a twin mount R-27 would for instance.

    Graphic rendering is different showing two missiles in two different spaces, not one in four different ones.
    So I would read it as two missiles in each of 2&4 and two in each of the 1&3 rows.

    I am assuming the green dots will be the normal loadout, presumably the green external pylons only carried when stealth is no longer an issue so a standard load out of two IZD 760 short range IR guided AAMs in the wing root internal weapon bays and four R-77M long range AAMs in the four main weapon bay positions will be the standard weapon layout... of course with the 30mm cannon and 150 rounds of ammo too.


    They already fired r-74 from the weapons bay. Well, it looks like they did. And they also have this small r-77 on the top which seems to be for the small weapons bay.

    I find that display of those three missiles rather confusing... the top missile seems to have the rear grid fins of the R-77... is it a 9M100?

    The middle missile looks like an R-73 but seems rather too big compared with the R-77 below it.

    And the R-77 below it has interesting body fins but standard rear grid fins which I thought they were getting rid of...

    It's just a shame that here the Su-57 is entering serial production and we haven't seen a single conclusive video of any of the weapons bays functioning or firing any missiles. I'm not sure what the strategy is with that?! One would think that if Sukhoi wanted to showcase the fighter to its fullest limit, they would be showcasing the fighter firing away from every single bay and every single direction. Really can't understand what the strategy is for not showing the weapons testing? Why hide it so adamantly like that?

    I suspect there are some details they want to keep secret for a while, but when they start pushing export sales of the aircraft they will likely have more details about weapon options if only for export...

    Isn't that optical pods to observe weapon separation?

    Could be, or could also be a targeting pod, for testing air to ground ordinance perhaps...

       Both can also passively sense radio transmissions but in my opinion the Su-57 does that better with 2,236 modules or even more(These past 10+ years I take it that they have upgraded the radars) + GaN EW system Himalayas

    With wingroot mounted L band AESA arrays the Su-57 can in theory detect HATO datalink communications which also work in L band...

    The F-35 is said to later use a 100 kilowatt DIRCM which I take it can physically destroy an air to air missile and there is this MSDM Miniature Self-Defense Munition which will use midget missiles against incoming air to air missiles. AFAIK the Su-57 DIRCM can only currently blind infrared sensors

    100 kilowatt lasers.... that is very impressive... but apart from appealing to fan boys on the internet what advantage does it offer above blinding the incoming missiles apart from using enormous levels of energy?

    ...F-35 so I decided to just break the ice here and compare its features and to what the Su-57 has.

    The main problem I see is that claims for the F-35 seem to exceed reality... it is stealthy, but the Su-35 and Su-30 seem to track it just fine... it will be getting super DIRCMs... but with a 100Kw laser why would it need any other type of weapon... it could just blow missiles and enemy aircraft out of the sky with this laser couldn't it?

    And proposed new ARM that is not that much superior to an ARM the Russians could have in service for 13 years already... and self defence AAMs... but again... with that laser.... why?

    As always they didn't have neither the 100Kw laser nor the MSDM nor the ARM missile, all of them are still in development with still a lot of work to do...
    As a matter of fact today, 20 October 2020 they have not even a single operational F-35 able to carry 6 AMRAAM as they have not still implemented the double rack for them in their own main bomb bay lodging...
    Even when they would finally implement it, it would be only on A & C version, as there is not space for installing it in B, nor they would be able to carry 6 Meteors instead than AMRAAM but just four as the current side mounted  missile rack is tailor fitted for AMRAAM only.
    Same problem for integrally fitted ARM missile, F-35 has only two bomb /missile pylons so even by carrying just one they would forfeit half of their offensive potential.

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