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    Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #6

    Stealthflanker
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    Post  Stealthflanker on 03/10/20, 06:43 pm

    Isos wrote:In your icture they are talking about izd 750, izd 760 and izd 170-1 and izd 160 missiles/weapons. Any idea what it could be ?

    The last ones should be r-77M and r-37M or r74 and it says only 2 per weapon bay not 6 as some said here before.

    Izd-750 is standard R-73, 760 is the R-74, 170-1 is the R-77-1 while the 180 should be the R-37M.

    Curiously why the R-77-1 only on external pylon ?

    Nvm Found an old image. The 180 is supposedly the New R-77.
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    Post  GarryB on 04/10/20, 08:46 am

    According to Butowski the RVV-MD is the K-74M (izd 750), izd 760 is the K-74M2, which is specifically designed for internal use in the wing mounted weapon bays.

    Izd 180 is R-77M.
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    Post  Hole on 04/10/20, 02:58 pm

    Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #6 - Page 18 Hk-qul10
    Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #6 - Page 18 Nkny8x10
    Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #6 - Page 18 Vu49jh10

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    Post  Hole on 04/10/20, 02:59 pm

    Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #6 - Page 18 Su-57_16
    Special version for the summer. Very Happy

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    Post  Hole on 04/10/20, 11:13 pm

    Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #6 - Page 18 Ejfv3w10
    Possibly the izd. 180

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    Post  Gomig-21 on 04/10/20, 11:41 pm

    Izdeliye-180 is the same as (K-77M) which is the same as R-77-1? So many names for these things it drives you crazy lol.

    Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #6 - Page 18 EjfM8HGWsAMuGxM?format=jpg&name=medium
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    Post  LMFS on 04/10/20, 11:49 pm

    Gomig-21 wrote:Izdeliye-180 is the same as (K-77M) which is the same as R-77-1?  So many names for these things it drives you crazy lol.

    This should be izd. 180 aka K-77M. I wish we had a better picture, I can't see properly the strakes. I am not even 100% there can't be some RAM intakes there. There seems to be changes, besides the removal of the lattice fins.

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    Post  Stealthflanker on 04/10/20, 11:51 pm

    LMFS wrote:
    Gomig-21 wrote:Izdeliye-180 is the same as (K-77M) which is the same as R-77-1?  So many names for these things it drives you crazy lol.

    This should be izd. 180 aka K-77M. I wish we had a better picture, I can't see properly the strakes. I am not even 100% there can't be some RAM intakes there. There seems to be changes, besides the removal of the lattice fins.

    Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #6 - Page 18 120757479_10217840063857590_4691753577689997856_o.jpg?_nc_cat=106&_nc_sid=8024bb&_nc_ohc=3vbz4iiI3TgAX9DQt4q&_nc_ht=scontent-xsp1-2
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    Post  LMFS on 04/10/20, 11:59 pm

    I just saw that latest picture too, so izd. 180 follows perfectly the drawings published by Butowski thumbsup

    EDIT: that should be the Kh-38MLE with different wings

    Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #6 - Page 18 IMG_7305-620x404


    Last edited by LMFS on 05/10/20, 02:49 am; edited 1 time in total
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    Post  Begome on 05/10/20, 02:19 am

    Gomig-21 wrote:Izdeliye-180 is the same as (K-77M) which is the same as R-77-1? So many names for these things it drives you crazy lol.
    Just in case there was a misunderstanding: the R-77-1 is not the same as the R-77M; the former is an improvement on the R-77 with an active radar seeker and has now been ordered in large numbers, while the latter is still in development and is getting an AESA radar and two-pulse rocket motor. The R-77-1 is izdelie 170-1 while the R-77M is probably the izdelie 180.

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    Post  GarryB on 05/10/20, 07:31 am

    Yes, R-77-1 is the Russian domestic production model of the RVV-SD, which is an upgrade of the original R-77 which was called RVV-AE for export.

    This new model missile is R-77M with a more powerful solid rocket motor with two stages where the second stage can be delayed to extend range further.

    There was a ramjet powered version developed in parallel to the R-77M to also be a long range missile called R-77PD but despite development being complete it was stopped... personally I think it was because a scramjet powered missile could use a similar but more bulky shape but have much better performance in terms of speed and range... for a similar price... still a mystery though...

    There is a new big missile intended to replace the R-37M called Izd 810 as well...
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    Post  George1 on 06/10/20, 02:49 am

    Placing aircraft weapons on the Su-57 fighter. Screenshot from the monitor shown in the video of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation

    Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #6 - Page 18 84306910

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    Post  GarryB on 06/10/20, 09:00 am

    Can anyone translate the tabs along the bottom of that screen.... I am assuming this tab is for air to air dogfighting combat loadout.

    What are the other tabs saying?

    What I find interesting about this image is that they bother to make a longer ranged R-77 with small fins for internal carriage... but they can still only fit two per weapon bay.... rather strange... they have already said they can fit two R-37Ms and two of the new model AS-11 ARMs in each bay...

    Maybe they have decided that it simply makes more sense to carry extra missiles in S-70 drones, or operate with Su-30s and Su-35s which can carry a lot more missiles much more efficiently than any stealth fighter could...
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    Post  Begome on 06/10/20, 02:19 pm

    Can anyone translate the tabs along the bottom of that screen.... I am assuming this tab is for air to air dogfighting combat loadout.
    Yes, it's, from left to right, "air-air", "air-surface", "air-radar", "air-ship", "unguided munitions", "fuel tanks".
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    Post  limb on 07/10/20, 12:45 am

    I thought the R-77Ms and R-37Ms were already tested on the Su-57 around 2014-16. Is those missiles having teething problems one of the reasons the production date l of the Su-57 has been pushed back multiple times?
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    Post  Isos on 07/10/20, 02:09 am

    limb wrote:I thought the R-77Ms and R-37Ms were already tested on the Su-57 around 2014-16.  Is those missiles having teething problems one of the reasons the production date l of the Su-57 has been pushed back multiple times?

    It's quite secret but both must have had delays or don't fit with the optimistics planed schedule like any big project.

    The only reported test were kh-59mk2 in syria from internal bays and r-77-1 and kh-31 externally.
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    Post  limb on 07/10/20, 03:03 am

    Isos wrote:
    limb wrote:I thought the R-77Ms and R-37Ms were already tested on the Su-57 around 2014-16.  Is those missiles having teething problems one of the reasons the production date l of the Su-57 has been pushed back multiple times?

    It's quite secret but both must have had delays or don't fit with the optimistics planed schedule like any big project.

    The only reported test were kh-59mk2 in syria from internal bays and r-77-1 and kh-31 externally.
    So when it comes into service around 2021, its primary stealthy AA and AS armament wont be available? If it has to do air superiority it will be unstealthy?
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    Post  limb on 07/10/20, 03:04 am

    George1 wrote:Placing aircraft weapons on the Su-57 fighter. Screenshot from the monitor shown in the video of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation

    Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #6 - Page 18 84306910
    This means its confirmed that the Su-57 can only carry 4 R-77s in internal bay? Thats a shame. F-22 still has more BVR ammo.
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    Post  x_54_u43 on 07/10/20, 04:09 am

    limb wrote:
    George1 wrote:Placing aircraft weapons on the Su-57 fighter. Screenshot from the monitor shown in the video of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation

    Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #6 - Page 18 84306910
    This means its confirmed that the Su-57 can only carry 4 R-77s in internal bay? Thats a shame. F-22 still has more BVR ammo.

    1. There are more missile types coming for Su-57, very likely increasing its MRAAM capacity.

    2. F-22 wishes it could carry the type of munitions that the Su-57 could carry.

    3. This may be only current capacity available to the Su-57 as for current program. Su-57M or later serial versions could very easily carry more, there is space. Very much like the F-35 only getting the ability to carry six AIM-120s later on.

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    Post  GarryB on 07/10/20, 09:12 am

    I thought the R-77Ms and R-37Ms were already tested on the Su-57 around 2014-16. Is those missiles having teething problems one of the reasons the production date l of the Su-57 has been pushed back multiple times?

    Even if the Su-57 never carries either missile in combat it would not effect its production.

    The Su-57 is a stealth aircraft hunter, so it will likely carry R-77Ms because of their better radar sensitivity... besides who knows what missiles they are carrying at any time... what makes you think there are any teething problems with either missile?

    It's quite secret but both must have had delays or don't fit with the optimistics planed schedule like any big project.

    I have not read anywhere about problems with either missile... the R-37M is in operational service with MiG-31s which will be its primary user...

    So when it comes into service around 2021, its primary stealthy AA and AS armament wont be available? If it has to do air superiority it will be unstealthy?

    What makes you think the R-77M is not ready for service?

    If they are testing performance in Syria for an air to surface missile then it is in service... they are just testing its performance on a real actual target...

    This means its confirmed that the Su-57 can only carry 4 R-77s in internal bay? Thats a shame. F-22 still has more BVR ammo.

    F-22 has no IRST or L band AESA antenna in its wing so when the four internal medium or long range AAMs are fired from the Su-57, the F-22 probably wont even know what is happening...

    3. This may be only current capacity available to the Su-57 as for current program. Su-57M or later serial versions could very easily carry more, there is space. Very much like the F-35 only getting the ability to carry six AIM-120s later on.

    This could be export configuration... for all we know they might only have two wiring points and suspension points in each bay so it is limited to two weapons.

    Further development could lead to a frame that could be attached to connect the wiring for twin launch pylons for each weapon point currently in each bay, which would mean 8 weapons per bay instead of four.

    But as I mentioned... the Su-57 is intended to operate with Su-35s and S-70s above S-350s, S-400s and S-500s, so carrying a few extra missiles might not be considered worth the extra weight and complication...

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    Post  LMFS on 07/10/20, 03:55 pm

    Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #6 - Page 18 EjqiLg3XkAA_Mh2?format=jpg&name=large

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    Post  Isos on 07/10/20, 04:09 pm

    Kh 58 ?
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    Post  LMFS on 07/10/20, 05:59 pm

    Isos wrote:Kh 58 ?

    Yes
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    Post  Isos on 07/10/20, 06:19 pm

    I don't see the IIR optic under the nose. The one they presented had it.
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    Post  magnumcromagnon on 07/10/20, 07:54 pm

    x_54_u43 wrote:
    limb wrote:
    George1 wrote:Placing aircraft weapons on the Su-57 fighter. Screenshot from the monitor shown in the video of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation

    Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #6 - Page 18 84306910
    This means its confirmed that the Su-57 can only carry 4 R-77s in internal bay? Thats a shame. F-22 still has more BVR ammo.

    1. There are more missile types coming for Su-57, very likely increasing its MRAAM capacity.

    2. F-22 wishes it could carry the type of munitions that the Su-57 could carry.

    3. This may be only current capacity available to the Su-57 as for current program. Su-57M or later serial versions could very easily carry more, there is space. Very much like the F-35 only getting the ability to carry six AIM-120s later on.

    I'm betting they'll create the successor to Hellducks, and probably call them Su-62/64. If they have the same side-by-side seating, then surely it'll be wider allowing it to have more fuel and or weapons stored.

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