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66 posters

    Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #6

    thegopnik
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    Post  thegopnik Fri Aug 14, 2020 4:11 pm

    GarryB wrote:
    They will need a UB version sooner or later. Sooner is better as they could sold it to india as a twi seat su-57, something they need right now.

    They don't want rookies flying an expensive 5th gen stealth fighter...

    They will have single and two seat MiG-35s as one of the Su-30 types will still be operating... there are no plans for a two seat Su-57, and no inexperienced rookie is getting anywhere near the Su-57s... there are plenty of older guys to fly them anyway...

    Those younger pilots now have a better reason to compete with each other through rank on trying to fly one.
    Isos
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    Post  Isos Fri Aug 14, 2020 4:54 pm

    GarryB wrote:
    They will need a UB version sooner or later. Sooner is better as they could sold it to india as a twi seat su-57, something they need right now.

    They don't want rookies flying an expensive 5th gen stealth fighter...

    They will have single and two seat MiG-35s as one of the Su-30 types will still be operating... there are no plans for a two seat Su-57, and no inexperienced rookie is getting anywhere near the Su-57s... there are plenty of older guys to fly them anyway...

    Yeah but that means those experienced pilots will fly far less on su57 than a young pilot that is trained from the begining on it.

    So that means they will need to train much more experienced pilots for the su57 than if they just train young ones from the start.

    Fighter pilots start at maybe 18-20 years old and retire at 35 or so ?

    The advantage of having your pilots fly on only one aircraft is that they master it perfectly. Experience on mig-35 may not be that usefull for su-57. They will need to relearn how to fight with this new aircraft.

    With a su-57UB experienced pilots can teach new pilots easily and then they can spend all their carreer on that plane.
    Singular_Transform
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    Post  Singular_Transform Fri Aug 14, 2020 6:17 pm

    Problem is the stealth aircraft is quite expensive to fly, per hour.

    So it needs to be a mixture of different plane types during training , and try to use the Su57 only for the last leg of training.
    Isos
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    Post  Isos Fri Aug 14, 2020 8:24 pm

    Singular_Transform wrote:Problem is the stealth aircraft is quite expensive to fly, per hour.

    So it needs to be a mixture of different plane types during training , and try to use the Su57 only for the last leg of training.

    That's why I said without the expensive stealth RAM coating, radar ... just with the engine.
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Sat Aug 15, 2020 11:19 am

    Yeah but that means those experienced pilots will fly far less on su57 than a young pilot that is trained from the begining on it.

    You want your older more experienced pilots flying the big expensive new toys... let them earn their wings before they get to play with the new stuff...

    So that means they will need to train much more experienced pilots for the su57 than if they just train young ones from the start.

    I would expect the older more experienced pilots would probably get the best out of the aircraft than young wet behind the ears pilots with no experience to fall back on when things surprise...

    The advantage of having your pilots fly on only one aircraft is that they master it perfectly. Experience on mig-35 may not be that usefull for su-57. They will need to relearn how to fight with this new aircraft.

    Pilots will fly what Russia needs them to fly, and how will they appreciate the Su-57 if it is the only real fighter they have ever flown... Russian pilots need to be able to fly any aircraft and having an understanding of the different aircraft capabilities and limitations will be important in service when they are operating in mixed teams... some kid of 18 years old flying an Su-57 like a dick... who is there because he is young and not because he is ready to fly such an aircraft... remember the Su-57s wont be out in the boon docks.... it will be front line in any conflict with HATO, so he better be good... and of course all those pilots with hundreds or thousands of hours in older types who have done the work suddenly see the new plane taken away from them... well I could see a lot of them thinking... fuck it... I will go fly for Aeroflot instead...

    With a su-57UB experienced pilots can teach new pilots easily and then they can spend all their carreer on that plane.

    But there are going to be way more young pilots than there are Su-57s... and the MIG-35s and Su-35s will be new too...

    That's why I said without the expensive stealth RAM coating, radar ... just with the engine.

    That is essentially what MiG did with the MiG-29UB... range only radar... essentially turned it into a non operational training only plane and worse than useless because it was much more expensive than their actual training aircraft, but unable to do BVR combat.

    Russian pilots probably all want to fly the Su-57, but they need to earn it and even then the vast majority wont get to fly it because there wont be thousands of Su-57s in service... and as you say putting pilots in it for short periods is useless... they need enough time to learn how to use it best in combat...
    Isos
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    Post  Isos Sat Aug 15, 2020 12:11 pm

    Russian pilots probably all want to fly the Su-57, but they need to earn it and even then the vast majority wont get to fly it because there wont be thousands of Su-57s in service... and as you say putting pilots in it for short periods is useless... they need enough time to learn how to use it best in combat...

    Experienced pilot on mig-35 or su-30 will have 5 or 6 years left in the air force. Then 1 or 1.5 years to be trained on su-57. He will be a su-57 pilot for 3.5-4 years.

    The young pilot may be bad the first 3 years but with constant training on a su-57UB with an experienced pilot he will be very good for the next 15 years he will spent in the air force.

    The first batch of su-57 is 76 but then starting 2030 they will only order it instead of su-30/35.

    I agree pilot may need to know each aircraft but there is no real need for it today. They don't have thousand of aircrafts in service so that they may need the pilot that got his plane downed because they will have just enough planes for the number of pilots.

    That is essentially what MiG did with the MiG-29UB... range only radar... essentially turned it into a non operational training only plane and worse than useless because it was much more expensive than their actual training aircraft, but unable to do BVR combat.

    BVR can be learned in simulator more easily. Real fly training is important for dogfight, low flights and also for the pilot to get used to the sensation not only hard Gs but also flighing for 4-5 hours without having illusions that makes him crash the plane.

    The UB variant offers real sensation of the plane they will fly. Yak-130 and other training jet can't replicate them. Russia is replacing them with Su-30M2 which still has some combat capabilities but it sucks compare to su30/35.


    LMFS
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    Post  LMFS Sat Aug 15, 2020 2:09 pm

    Isos wrote:Experienced pilot on mig-35 or su-30 will have 5 or 6 years left in the air force. Then 1 or 1.5 years to be trained on su-57. He will be a su-57 pilot for 3.5-4 years.

    Do you have sources for that? Bogdan is 58 and these gentlemen do not look 35 to me:

    Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #6 - Page 11 Article-2326080-19D584FF000005DC-408_964x514
    Isos
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    Post  Isos Sat Aug 15, 2020 2:17 pm

    He is a test pilot working for sukhoi. It proves nothing.

    Go check videos of russian pilots in Syria they are all under 35/40 and many go to work for civilian companies after gaining enough experience because it pays more. That's an issue for all air forces.
    JohninMK
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    Post  JohninMK Sat Aug 15, 2020 2:41 pm

    Isos wrote:

    Go check videos of russian pilots in Syria they are all under 35/40 and many go to work for civilian companies after gaining enough experience because it pays more. That's an issue for all air forces.
    Maybe in Russia but not anymore in the West. Son of a friend, a top transport aircraft pilot, is trying to get back into the RAF having only left in March and spent 5 months in BA. It will be years before civilian companies will need many military pilots. In many ways the World has changed over the last few months for ever.
    Isos
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    Post  Isos Sat Aug 15, 2020 2:45 pm

    JohninMK wrote:
    Isos wrote:

    Go check videos of russian pilots in Syria they are all under 35/40 and many go to work for civilian companies after gaining enough experience because it pays more. That's an issue for all air forces.
    Maybe in Russia but not anymore in the West. Son of a friend, a top transport aircraft pilot, is trying to get back into the RAF having only left in March and spent 5 months in BA. It will be years before civilian companies will need many military pilots. In many ways the World has changed over the last few months for ever.

    I was talking about a normal situation. Coronavirus has clearly destroy aviation in general, at least as long as they don't find a cure or stop the propagabda about how dangerous it is.

    Your friend's son has clearly made a big misrake.
    Singular_Transform
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    Post  Singular_Transform Sat Aug 15, 2020 2:54 pm

    Isos wrote:
    JohninMK wrote:
    Isos wrote:

    Go check videos of russian pilots in Syria they are all under 35/40 and many go to work for civilian companies after gaining enough experience because it pays more. That's an issue for all air forces.
    Maybe in Russia but not anymore in the West. Son of a friend, a top transport aircraft pilot, is trying to get back into the RAF having only left in March and spent 5 months in BA. It will be years before civilian companies will need many military pilots. In many ways the World has changed over the last few months for ever.

    I was talking about a normal situation. Coronavirus has clearly destroy aviation in general, at least as long as they don't find a cure or stop the propagabda about how dangerous it is.

    Your friend's son has clearly made a big misrake.


    You mean the chap wasn't prepared for a global pandemic back in jan this year ?

    : )

    Big mistake.

    LMFS
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    Post  LMFS Sat Aug 15, 2020 2:59 pm

    Isos wrote:He is a test pilot working for sukhoi. It proves nothing.

    It proves a guy in its late fifties can still pilot a top of the line fighter jet like a boss. Which applies to the other guys from Russian Knights I linked, plus they are VKS and not private company pilots, if that may make a difference. In any case, you re the one making the claim that fighter pilots need to be younger than 35, so I think the burden of the proof is on you dunno
    Isos
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    Post  Isos Sat Aug 15, 2020 3:20 pm

    LMFS wrote:
    Isos wrote:He is a test pilot working for sukhoi. It proves nothing.

    It proves a guy in its late fifties can still pilot a top of the line fighter jet like a boss. Which applies to the other guys from Russian Knights I linked, plus they are VKS and not private company pilots, if that may make a difference. In any case, you re the one making the claim that fighter pilots need to be younger than 35, so I think the burden of the proof is on you dunno

    I don't say they must be I say they usually go away pretty early.

    You can check for the age of retirement of fighter pilots on the net. They say everywhere the limit is around 45 and plenty go in civilian aviation before that.
    thegopnik
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    Post  thegopnik Sat Aug 15, 2020 4:02 pm

    Surprised seeing other forums post these pictures on Su-57 threads before this board because this feature does seem important.

    Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #6 - Page 11 EfSH3bUU0AACkam?format=jpg&name=360x360

    Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #6 - Page 11 EfSH-BlVAAAT-D4?format=jpg&name=medium

    Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #6 - Page 11 EfSH8yoVoAEb_Zz?format=jpg&name=medium

    Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #6 - Page 11 EfSH2p6U8AE9Z0j?format=jpg&name=medium

    Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #6 - Page 11 EfSLxN_U0AI-wPi?format=jpg&name=small

    upgraded radar perhaps?
    marcellogo
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    Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #6 - Page 11 Empty Re: Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #6

    Post  marcellogo Sat Aug 15, 2020 4:20 pm

    dino00 wrote:
    LMFS wrote:Planned Su-57 numbers for the period 2020-2024:

    https://charly015.blogspot.com/2020/08/el-su-35-el-su-57-y-el-descuido-del.html

    With those figures, we could think that the first stage Su-57 could end by 2023 with 1 squadron + 4 units for training. By then izd. 30 should be finishing tests and the second stage production should be starting, if everything goes according to previous statements.

    Probably the best numbers right now are:

    2020 - 1
    2021 - 4
    2022 - 4
    2023 - 7
    2024 - 12
    2025 - 12
    2026 - 12
    2027 - 12
    2028 - 12

    Total 76 units or three regiments + 4 units for training. The unit lost in 2019 to be effectively recovered only in 2023, then one squadron equipped per year. Looks relatively solid to me...

    Nice russia
    From that link I found a tweet that says this is the purchase contract

    https://zakupki.gov.ru/223/plan/public/plan/info/position-view.html?planId=545529&planInfoId=4287327&planInfoPositionId=76476773094&versioned=&activeTab=5&pos=true

    If this is only for SU-57 the first one will cost $52 million, but after that maybe the Russian MoD will pay only partially.

    The FIRST SERIAL planes are the planes built for industrialization phase i.e. to set up the serial assembly line.
    Russian, unlike west, pay the acquired items in full in each single phase of development and setting up + so a prototype plane cost a true lot, the first serials have all the cost of the industrialization phase added, the serially produced one in exchange will come (for Russia) cheap as dirt as they will pay only the acquired item and not having the development cost added.
    Development of F-35 is more costly than the one of F-22 but as it is projected to be divided into a way greater number of planes (majority still to be built) it get to be better hidden.
    magnumcromagnon
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    Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #6 - Page 11 Empty Re: Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #6

    Post  magnumcromagnon Sat Aug 15, 2020 5:33 pm

    thegopnik wrote:Surprised seeing other forums post these pictures on Su-57 threads before this board because this feature does seem important.

    Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #6 - Page 11 EfSH3bUU0AACkam?format=jpg&name=360x360

    Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #6 - Page 11 EfSH-BlVAAAT-D4?format=jpg&name=medium

    Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #6 - Page 11 EfSH8yoVoAEb_Zz?format=jpg&name=medium

    Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #6 - Page 11 EfSH2p6U8AE9Z0j?format=jpg&name=medium

    Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #6 - Page 11 EfSLxN_U0AI-wPi?format=jpg&name=small

    upgraded radar perhaps?

    Radar array is probably larger (rectangle shaped) with more ideal area for T/R modules.
    marcellogo
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    Post  marcellogo Sat Aug 15, 2020 5:49 pm

    LMFS wrote:Planned Su-57 numbers for the period 2020-2024:

    https://charly015.blogspot.com/2020/08/el-su-35-el-su-57-y-el-descuido-del.html

    With those figures, we could think that the first stage Su-57 could end by 2023 with 1 squadron + 4 units for training. By then izd. 30 should be finishing tests and the second stage production should be starting, if everything goes according to previous statements.

    Probably the best numbers right now are:

    2020 - 1
    2021 - 4
    2022 - 4
    2023 - 7
    2024 - 12
    2025 - 12
    2026 - 12
    2027 - 12
    2028 - 12

    Total 76 units or three regiments + 4 units for training. The unit lost in 2019 to be effectively recovered only in 2023, then one squadron equipped per year. Looks relatively solid to me...

    Again with this nonsense of spanning a contract to fit exactly the years of a framework...

    Let's repeat it ad nauseam then: saying that a contract would be completed in the framework of the [given year] acquisition program doesn't mean at all that the production would last from the first to the last of years of such a period.

    It means instead that the contract would be concluded within the time span between the end of the precedent acquisition period (in this case the 2023) and the end of it.
    So what we know for is that it would be concluded between the 2024 and the 2028 but not how long it will take to complete it (and sign another one) and even less how many planes would be purchased each single year of the whole period.

    Having built a dedicated assembly line they would do anything they can to use it at its full capacity, so I will bet that they would not allow themselves to wait for three years before reaching it.
    And at the same time I would bet on the fact that its own full capacity would NOT be a meagre 12 plane for year.
    LMFS
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    Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #6 - Page 11 Empty Re: Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #6

    Post  LMFS Sat Aug 15, 2020 6:32 pm

    thegopnik wrote:Surprised seeing other forums post these pictures on Su-57 threads before this board because this feature does seem important.

    We noticed this here 3 days before  Wink

    https://www.russiadefence.net/t7978p225-su-57-stealth-fighter-news-6#290874

    upgraded radar perhaps?

    I don't see the need for that at all, it is only the tip that changes and there is no radar there. Changing the nose would affect aero too, that is not a thing you leave for the time where the state tests are finished, unless thy tested it before and didn't show to anyone for some strange reason...

    Marcellogo wrote:
    Again with this nonsense of spanning a contract to fit exactly the years of a framework...

    Let's repeat it ad nauseam then: saying that a contract would be completed in the framework of the [given year] acquisition program doesn't mean at all that the production would last from the first to the last of years of such a period.

    It means instead that the contract would be concluded within the time span between the end of the precedent acquisition period (in this case the 2023) and the end of it.
    So what we know for is that it would be concluded between the 2024 and the 2028 but not how long it will take to complete it (and sign another one) and even less how many planes would be purchased each single year of the whole period.

    Having built a dedicated assembly line they would do anything they can to use it at its full capacity, so I will bet that they would not allow themselves to wait for three years before reaching it.
    And at the same time I would bet on the fact that its own full capacity would NOT be a meagre 12 plane for year.

    They said 76 units until 2028 on a number of occasions, and the average amount of planes of each type KnAAZ delivers to the VKS has been around 10 per year already for a while, so delivering them much earlier is not a given. BTW, these numbers for Su-57 procurement until 2023 come from the UAC table showed to the MoD, it is ballsy to bet they are wrong  dunno

    They can produce more (this year it would be 32 units IIRC including Su-35 and export) but the average is much lower, which makes sense since MoD tries to balance the industrial capability and its loading. But we will see. What is your prediction in therms of units / year?
    thegopnik
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    Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #6 - Page 11 Empty Re: Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #6

    Post  thegopnik Sat Aug 15, 2020 6:54 pm

    LMFS wrote:
    thegopnik wrote:Surprised seeing other forums post these pictures on Su-57 threads before this board because this feature does seem important.

    We noticed this here 3 days before  Wink

    https://www.russiadefence.net/t7978p225-su-57-stealth-fighter-news-6#290874

    upgraded radar perhaps?

    I don't see the need for that at all, it is only the tip that changes and there is no radar there. Changing the nose would affect aero too...

    Just by looking at the last 2 pictures I posted it, I do not know if my own eye sight is bad but it looks like its not just the nose tip that is wide. It looks it went from looking like a speed boat to a boat.

    Not trying to make dick jokes but some Su-57s look more girthy than the other ones.

    Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #6 - Page 11 0057fd9600ca719d017fde4d2ef0dffb_900

    Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #6 - Page 11 Message-editor%2F1597267927978-efnrnscx0aak2i_

    LMFS
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    Post  LMFS Sat Aug 15, 2020 7:08 pm

    thegopnik wrote:Just by looking at the last 2 pictures I posted it, I do not know if my own eye sight is bad but it looks like its not just the nose tip that is wide. It looks it went from looking like a speed boat to a boat

    The radar is right at the back of the radome and there it has exactly the same size as the fuselage to which it is attached, so no change. The upper transition from fuselage to nose and the angles at the tip suggest the nose is upside down. The chines are not as market, tip material seems different, some strakes and details are missing, finish is rough... so it may be a cover, or it may be the radome, but unfinished. I will try to see whether some previous production pictures show a similar piece. By now I don't feel compelled to think something big is going on with it...

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    thegopnik
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    Post  thegopnik Sat Aug 15, 2020 7:35 pm

    LMFS wrote:
    thegopnik wrote:Just by looking at the last 2 pictures I posted it, I do not know if my own eye sight is bad but it looks like its not just the nose tip that is wide. It looks it went from looking like a speed boat to a boat

    The radar is right at the back of the radome and there it has exactly the same size as the fuselage to which it is attached, so no change. The upper transition from fuselage to nose and the angles at the tip suggest the nose is upside down. The chines are not as market, tip material seems different, some strakes and details are missing, finish is rough... so it may be a cover, or it may be the radome, but unfinished. I will try to see whether some previous production pictures show a similar piece. By now I don't feel compelled to think something big is going on with it...

    The radar placement of the Su-35 was in front of the IRST so I assumed the same thing for the Su-57 placement. So I have been eyeing just from the IRST bulb to the nose tip for reference, so maybe antenna might have more T/R modules? I guess more photos later the better as you say.

    Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #6 - Page 11 Su-57_10
    Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #6 - Page 11 Su_57_10

    Sorry for shitty drawing of red lines, but to me the wider the U is wider the radar antennas with T/R modules would be considering the antenna has some distance in front of the IRST. This will be my last response to you for now.
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Sun Aug 16, 2020 11:47 am

    Experienced pilot on mig-35 or su-30 will have 5 or 6 years left in the air force.

    So what you are saying is let your experienced pilots remain on less capable planes and put your wet behind the ears rookies into the brand new very expensive stealth fighters. Your experienced pilots might think if they can't fly the new exciting stuff they might as well fly civilian airliners for more cash.

    Then 1 or 1.5 years to be trained on su-57. He will be a su-57 pilot for 3.5-4 years.

    If all the newbies go straight to the Su-57, then who is going to be flying all the other types?

    Even during those 1 to 1.5 years of learning to fly the Su-57 an experienced pilot will still be better than a pilot who is just out of training and has only ever flown a Yak-130. In comparison there is probably rather more to learn in an Su-57 and understand for a rookie pilot, which the experienced pilot has already learned on other aircraft...

    The young pilot may be bad the first 3 years but with constant training on a su-57UB with an experienced pilot he will be very good for the next 15 years he will spent in the air force.

    So what you are saying that all the Su-57s are going to start out shit because it will be flown by a rookie pilot who really does not know what they are doing for the first 3 years but then for the next 15 years this rookie pilot who has never even flown another type except presumably the L-29, Yak-130 and Yak-152 is going to hog the best fighter planes in the Russian Air Force while new rookies and experienced pilots get to fly the other types...

    What if this years intake of pilots is rubbish and you end up with terribly ordinary pilots flying your best and most expensive planes...

    I would think that just like in Syria, they would try to give everyone some real combat experience, but not everyone flew Su-57s there... only experienced pilots flew that there.


    The first batch of su-57 is 76 but then starting 2030 they will only order it instead of su-30/35.

    Says who?

    They have never ever made any claims or goals to get an all stealth air force... the Su-35 compliments the Su-57... it carries more weapons and larger weapons and when stealth is not an issue it is much much cheaper.


    BVR can be learned in simulator more easily. Real fly training is important for dogfight, low flights and also for the pilot to get used to the sensation not only hard Gs but also flighing for 4-5 hours without having illusions that makes him crash the plane.

    You are not understanding what I am saying... having a non stealthy cheaper trainer version of the Su-57 means buying a big expensive but ultimately useless aircraft, because it has no value in combat.

    The current pilots of the Su-57 didn't need a two seat trainer version... perhaps using experienced pilots is an advantage?

    [qutoe]The UB variant offers real sensation of the plane they will fly. Yak-130 and other training jet can't replicate them.[/quote]

    The reason the Yak-130 was selected over the simpler cheaper MiG-AT is because its digital flight control system can be dialed up or down to simulate anything including 5th gen fighters.

    Russia is replacing them with Su-30M2 which still has some combat capabilities but it sucks compare to su30/35.


    The MiG-29UB had a ranging only radar and no ability to use radar guided missiles, but the Su-27UB had full standard radar and systems and was fully combat capable except for having two seats and slightly less fuel.

    In terms of combat flight training the Su-30 would be as close to the Su-57 as you would need... when you learn to drive in a mini cooper you don't need to do a whole new drivers test if you buy a bigger car... you need to learn the clutch on a manual for different vehicles but the bare basics are the same... different brakes, different turn rates and acceleration but you pick that up quickly enough.

    Go check videos of russian pilots in Syria they are all under 35/40 and many go to work for civilian companies after gaining enough experience because it pays more. That's an issue for all air forces.

    A lot more experienced pilots will go when they find that the next lot of rookies will be crashing/flying Su-57s and no body else will get a look in for the next 20 years.


    You can check for the age of retirement of fighter pilots on the net. They say everywhere the limit is around 45 and plenty go in civilian aviation before that.

    So what? That has nothing to do with why rookies of the next few classes should suddenly get priority to fly their new fighter... the experienced pilots would do a better job and they have done the ground work and would probably recognise the difference from the older types and be able to use that against enemies using older types.

    upgraded radar perhaps?

    Might just be reprofiled radome...

    For all we know it might just be a cover to hide the radar while the cameras are there...
    marcellogo
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    Post  marcellogo Sun Aug 16, 2020 1:11 pm

    I think the trainer version is not such a big issue: once the new pilots end with Yak-130 send them to an OCU unit with the new Su-30SM2 actually in acquisition, after it let the best ones pass an year in a Su-35S unit, one with the Su-57 with actual engines and in the end let the very best one pass to the definitive version.
    kvs
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    Post  kvs Sun Aug 16, 2020 5:50 pm

    The nose shape change may also be for better air flow. Sharp surface transitions produce air flow disruption. This may be a
    small issue but less crap affecting maneuverability is better.

    Isos
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    Post  Isos Sun Aug 16, 2020 6:01 pm

    It seems to he made of wood material. Maybe it's just to hide the radar. You can see the red thing holding it.

    None of the prototype flew with it. Why would they put put it on serial jets when they could just mount it on one of the 10 already build test prototypes and see how it goes.

    They already crashed the first serial su-57. I doubt they will change the design this way without in flight tests. It's an unstable design and the fly-by-wire system must be tested everytime they change something on it.

    LMFS likes this post


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