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    Development Projects of Russia: Industry, Energy and Infastructure

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    ALAMO

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    Post  ALAMO Tue Jun 29, 2021 10:47 pm

    It is running right now in front of my eyes Laughing
    The solar panel installation benefits at most the solar panel installation installers Laughing Laughing
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    Post  kvs Wed Jun 30, 2021 1:17 am

    Russia has to play the green game because NATzO and its fellow travelers have made it into a global "save the planet" issue. So
    if Russia does nothing, it will be the target of yet more propaganda spew "establishing" western moral superiority and pushing down
    Russia as "being criminally negligent about precious human lives". The same shtick from the same bloody hypocrite clowns for centuries.
    This racket works because the world is populated by mostly apathetic and thus gullible idiots.

    I also expect Russia to make green energy viable since it is not totally rotted like the west.

    Hole
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    Post  Hole Wed Jun 30, 2021 3:40 pm

    Russia doesn´t subsidize such projects in the way western countries do. This projects are viable. They generate energy and make money.
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    Post  GarryB Wed Jun 30, 2021 3:59 pm

    Russia has companies making green energy products, they produce their own solar panels too... and it is hilarious to learn all the waste and energy consumption that goes in to making solar panels... just shows what the definition of hypocrite really is... but while it is not amazing at the moment, like any technology over time it will improve...

    In cold places like Russia solar panels don't make enormous amounts of sense but is handy for remote stations where half the year it generates current and for the cold dark half of the year the wind is normally blowing anyway so connect a remote area with both wind and sun energy and it is much cheaper than diesel fuel powered generators.

    In hot places solar panels are an excellent way to cover the enormous energy waste in cooling down buildings... for air conditioning systems it is an ideal power source... it is often needed at peak sun shine hours periods and takes the strain off the other systems providing electricity at a time when sunshine is part of the problem.

    The fact is that Russia is exploring all options, and I would expect when they buy technology from the EU it is because it is available... when they sanction it they can then legitimately reverse engineer it for themselves with a clear conscience.

    The are also spending money on clean nuclear which is the real future of clean green energy production, whether the greenies in the west accept that or not.

    Just because countries have turned potentially good projects into jobs for the boys... well they always do that anyway so it means nothing.

    I loved the tantrums in the US over China flooding the US market with cheap solar panels and then of stealing their technology to make better ones even cheaper than the US could make them... you see at the end of the day money beats green any day of the week.
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    Post  flamming_python Wed Jun 30, 2021 7:28 pm

    Rosatom has it's own green-energy strategy, although I can't find much information on it, other than the educational 'green square' initiative.

    Perhaps, the further use of nuclear power to drive hydroelectric pumping stations when excess electricity is being produced (I know that the largest one in the Moscow region is being expanded with a 2nd stage at the moment), as well as wind and solar power in an auxiliary role. But this is a matter of speculation thus far. The fun thing about hydroelectric pumping stations is that they essentially function as giant accumulators, and can be used to mitigate the disadvantages of intermittent renewable energy generators, or nuclear power plants overproducing electricity.

    Development Projects of Russia: Industry, Energy and Infastructure - Page 14 Greens10

    In other news, a pilot project by Rosseti (Russian Grids) has been launched, to create autonomous mini-power generators at substations, consisting of solar panels and a rotating wind turbine. They are capable of considerable energy savings for the substations involved, as they can power cooling systems for the transformers, lighting and storing energy in accumulators for night-time use. If successful, the same can be instituted at other power substations.

    https://www.fsk-ees.ru/press_center/company_news/?ELEMENT_ID=345312
    Development Projects of Russia: Industry, Energy and Infastructure - Page 14 00053510

    There has also been talk of ressurecting a massive unfinished hydroelectric power plant in Siberia, the Krapivinskaya HPP

    https://zen.yandex.ru/media/str_rus/krapivinskaia-ges-krupnyi-sovetskii-nedostroi-mogut-vsetaki-zakonchit-za-45-mlrd-rub-603b0bfb2d4e6e797127c6df
    Development Projects of Russia: Industry, Energy and Infastructure - Page 14 Hydro10

    Finally, an LNG plant is now under construction in the Kuzbass region, to convert extracted coalbed methane to LNG.
    https://kem.sibnovosti.ru/business/394306-v-kuzbasse-postroyat-zavod-po-szhizheniyu-metana

    Extracting coalbed methane is still at the early stages in Russia (https://www.gazprom.ru/about/production/extraction/metan/), but the potential is huge owing the amount of coal reservoirs across Russia.

    This LNG is not for export, after all the Kuzbass is located deep in the Russian interior.
    Instead it's to be used as fuel; it's part of the plan to convert Russia's bus-fleet to LNG-powered models away from oil-powered ones, further reducing emissions.

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    Post  flamming_python Wed Jun 30, 2021 8:13 pm

    kvs wrote:Russia has to play the green game because NATzO and its fellow travelers have made it into a global "save the planet" issue.  So
    if Russia does nothing, it will be the target of yet more propaganda spew "establishing" western moral superiority and pushing down
    Russia as "being criminally negligent about precious human lives".   The same shtick from the same bloody hypocrite clowns for centuries.
    This racket works because the world is populated by mostly apathetic and thus gullible idiots.  

    I also expect Russia to make green energy viable since it is not totally rotted like the west.


    It's more to do with the fact that Russia's energy customers (Europe) impose penalties on dirty and polluting energy, as well as other products

    So that's a major incentive for Russian companies to invest into clean energy, recycling, and environmental issues

    The Russian government has also introduced stricter environmental legislation itself and imposes penalties for contamination. And of course Russia itself is concerned by global warming.

    There are masses of land-fills in Russia that pollute the environment as well, the government is mulling a plan for more next-gen recycling and garbage combustion facilities. Already a bunch of new facilities have appeared in recent years.

    One should remember that it was the USSR itself that moved away from the most dirty-energy source, coal-fired power plants, and on a massive scale. Most of the gas infrastructure, pipelines, heating, and gas-fired power plants are from the Soviet-era. By 1991 not all that many coal-energy plants remained, and the majority of those are gone by now too.
    The same USSR was a massive investor into the original renewable energy source - hydroelectric power. Today at least 15% of Russia's energy is generated from hydroelectric dams. That's already a greater proportion than that of many European country's renewable energy power-plants as a percentage of their total.
    It was a massive polluter as well don't get me wrong. But not so much in power-generation.

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    Post  kvs Wed Jun 30, 2021 10:48 pm

    Hydro storage of intermittent alt-energy output is a great idea.   But the problem is that it is limited.    There is not an arbitrary amount of river basins that
    can be turned into hydro-generating operations.   Building massive elevated water tanks is an economic non-starter.    

    Russia should definitely revive any dead hydro projects, they are pure gold.  

    Russia is building modern garbage incinerators and is planning to crank up this construction but the short term problem is cost.    



    An objective evaluation of the state of Russian garbage collection and comparison to Switzerland which has had to bite the bullet
    and do it right during the 1980s. Russia currently recycles only 7%. But you have to take into account that the claimed 50% recycling in western
    countries typically involves shipping the "recycled" waste to third world dumps. Switzerland does not do this and currently
    achieves 99% recycling. But this involves coercion that, for example, no Canadian would tolerate and would also drive Russians mad.
    You have to breakup tea bags and there are way more recycling bins than the two we have in Canada. There are rather large
    fines for "offenders" and substantial taxes on producers of goods.

    I personally would not mind having more sorting bins. If that actually means that the garbage is recycled instead of being dumped in
    the 3rd world, as is the case for Canada, then I can spare the time.



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    ALAMO

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    Post  ALAMO Wed Jun 30, 2021 11:24 pm

    Hole wrote:Russia doesn´t subsidize such projects in the way western countries do. This projects are viable. They generate energy and make money.

    That is very true and makes the difference.
    As long as you run those projects only when they are profitable, it is perfectly OK.
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    Post  limb Wed Jun 30, 2021 11:48 pm

    Hydroelectric dams are more environmentally damaging than almost all other energy sources. They basically cause mass extinction in fish populations and riverine ecosystem collapse. i live in california, which used to have massive salmon and sturgeon populations, numbering in hundreds of thousands of tons, and thus plentiful to catch by commercial fishing. However almost every river in california is dammed, and the salmon population is almost extinct because its spawning grounds are blocked, at like 0.2-0.5% of predamming levels. Almost the same for sturgeon. As far as I know the russian, amur, and beluga sturgeon are are basically extinct in the wild because of dams.  

    If it were up to me, every single dam situated on a river thats used as a spawning ground for commercially and ecollogically important fish species should be destroyed, and replaced by nuclear reactors, coal fired powerplants,solar panels, etc.

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    Post  PapaDragon Thu Jul 01, 2021 2:26 am

    flamming_python wrote:Rosatom has it's own green-energy strategy, although I can't find much information on it, other than the educational 'green square' initiative....

    Previous page:

    https://www.russiadefence.net/t7973p300-development-projects-of-russia-industry-energy-and-infastructure#319170

    PapaDragon wrote:Development Projects of Russia: Industry, Energy and Infastructure - Page 14 356ebff93ef49ec0a536cd4179b32c49


    They definitely have way more than green square' initiative:

    http://novawind.ru/eng/

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    Post  ALAMO Thu Jul 01, 2021 2:33 am

    This :
    http://novawind.ru/eng/press/news/news_item.php?page=396
    The only part that is relevant.
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    Post  kvs Thu Jul 01, 2021 2:49 am

    ALAMO wrote:This :
    http://novawind.ru/eng/press/news/news_item.php?page=396
    The only part that is relevant.

    To date, NovaWind JSC (Rosatom’s wind power division) has already commissioned wind farms with a total capacity of 420 MW in southern Russia. Three more wind farms with a total capacity of 300 MW will be commissioned in the Stavropol and Rostov Regions by the end of the year. In total, NovaWind companies are to build wind power plants with a total capacity of 1.2 GW by 2024.

    Looks like 300 MW per year of new wind farms.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wind_power_in_the_United_States

    Development Projects of Russia: Industry, Energy and Infastructure - Page 14 5ba7e141fc8f8b60b8d247fe822566dd

    Russia is only at the start of the wind power capacity build.

    But it does not have to follow the US, it should focus on nuclear power plant construction. A nuclear power plant lasts 60 years.
    Wind power power turbines last about 20 years. They also cause health impacts on both wildlife and humans through infra-sound.
    Nuclear power with fast neutron breeder reactors is the most economical clean energy tech.


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    Post  ALAMO Thu Jul 01, 2021 3:00 am

    That is not the point.
    They are selling green bonds in advance.
    Targeting CAPEX of other companies, to finance the development.
    It is kind of the opposite we have faced in EU.
    Probably, this is directly connected to Rosatom's financial credibility.
    Huge difference.

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    Post  miketheterrible Thu Jul 01, 2021 3:04 am

    Rosatom is so damn rich, it could probably purchase the entire MiC industry in Russia plus some. They are rather very concervative with their finances.
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    Post  kvs Thu Jul 01, 2021 3:07 am

    ALAMO wrote:That is not the point.
    They are selling green bonds in advance.
    Targeting CAPEX of other companies, to finance the development.
    It is kind of the opposite we have faced in EU.
    Probably, this is directly connected to Rosatom's financial credibility.
    Huge difference.

    Take a valium.   If you want to make your "points" then don't be a dick and make them cryptic.  Nothing in my post
    merits your stupid snark.
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    Post  kvs Thu Jul 01, 2021 3:08 am

    miketheterrible wrote:Rosatom is so damn rich, it could probably purchase the entire MiC industry in Russia plus some.  They are rather very concervative with their finances.

    The only thing that matters is actual projects and not hypothetical spending. That is the only relevant "point".

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    Post  ALAMO Thu Jul 01, 2021 3:11 am

    kvs wrote:
    Take a valium.   If you want to make your "points" then don't be a dick and make them cryptic.  Nothing in my post
    merits your stupid snark.

    The world is not enough to host your ego Very Happy
    Let us build a new one for you Laughing
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    Post  ALAMO Thu Jul 01, 2021 3:20 am

    miketheterrible wrote:Rosatom is so damn rich, it could probably purchase the entire MiC industry in Russia plus some.  They are rather very concervative with their finances.

    Yes, they are, this is a country of their own.
    And operating in a self-made league here.
    Its budget equals a small-sized country, and that is the scope of the operations. Pumped by the political might of RF.
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    Post  miketheterrible Thu Jul 01, 2021 3:24 am

    Heck their total orders match the GDP of Pakistan.
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    Post  ALAMO Thu Jul 01, 2021 3:32 am

    Yeah, but it is for the next 15 years or so.
    Still, that is simply impressive.
    They created their own league, and play there with their own rules.
    That alone explainss ze wezt yapping Laughing
    By the way, my dear native English speakers, can you tell me the alternative word for "yapping"? scratch
    I have overused that lately, and hardly can find an alternative cry Help me, lads!
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    Post  PapaDragon Thu Jul 01, 2021 3:35 am

    ALAMO wrote:Yeah, but it is for the next 15 years or so.
    Still, that is simply impressive.
    They created their own league, and play there with their own rules....

    Future is just around the corner Cool

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    Post  flamming_python Thu Jul 01, 2021 3:37 am

    PapaDragon wrote:
    They definitely have way more than green square' initiative:

    http://novawind.ru/eng/


    Do you have a link to their strategy with wind power, how they plan to fit it in with their nuclear power generation plans?

    That's what I meant

    Of course it's possible that it's something that they're just investing in completely separately and with no connection to their nuclear reactor business
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    Post  PapaDragon Thu Jul 01, 2021 3:40 am

    miketheterrible wrote:Rosatom is so damn rich, it could probably purchase the entire MiC industry in Russia plus some.  They are rather very concervative with their finances.

    I already said this before: Rosatom is not doing this for shits and giggles but for massive profits down the road

    Electricity from these wind farms will allow them to reduce the workload on their nuclear power plants which will result in greatly increased service life of their reactors, reduce maintenance costs and increase safety even more

    It will make them even more money than they already have

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    Post  ALAMO Thu Jul 01, 2021 3:48 am

    PapaDragon wrote:
    I already said this before: Rosatom is not doing this for shits and giggles but for massive profits down the road
    Electricity from these wind farms will allow them to reduce the workload on their nuclear power plants which will result in greatly increased service life of their reactors, reduce maintenance costs and increase safety even more
    It will make them even more money than they already have

    Well, it is much more complicated.
    The electricity production and distribution is a combined net.
    Wind/solar energy can not cover the whole demand, because it runs in specific conditions.
    In theory, when solar is not working then the wind is - is a dickhead story.
    As long as you operate in a combined system, and can buy the energy in the system that is available - it works.
    But who produces the energy to balance the peaked need?
    Well, the nasty and ugly coal/gas/oil/atom generators.
    Those operate 24/7/365.
    So you simply need to have&keep the alternative production, but what more, you need a connection grid that allows the flow of electricity all around.
    It cost billions. Literally billions.
    You need a combined grid, to sell these extra assets when needed.
    Not so long time ago, Germany was paying to the receivers of energy production, because it was unable to use it, store it, and/or distribute it.
    A negative energy price is something that happens.
    The perfect system includes stable power generating assets, combined with non-stable ones, like wind/solar, and a solid infrastructure to hold the enerhy. Like pressure towers etc.
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    Post  flamming_python Thu Jul 01, 2021 5:35 am

    Rosatom is building a new type of compact low-capacity nuclear power station (55 MW) in northern Yakutia, the first of its kind. It will allow diesel deliveries for local diesel-fired power plants to be phased out, provide power for a new gold-mining complex in the area, and in the future, could be used to produce hydrogen fuel for transportation needs as well

    If it's successful they'll continue with the model for the rest of the Arctic and other remote regions which are not reliably connected to the Russian energy grid

    https://news.ykt.ru/article/119767
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