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    Russian Economy General News: #11

    Walther von Oldenburg
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    Post  Walther von Oldenburg on Sat Aug 08, 2020 11:51 am

    Stalin's killing of so many people was actually counterproductive. Just firing/demoting them would be enough.

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    kvs
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    Post  kvs on Sat Aug 08, 2020 4:33 pm

    Walther von Oldenburg wrote:Stalin's killing of so many people was actually counterproductive. Just firing/demoting them would be enough.

    That only holds for average incompetents. Traitors have the death penalty in the USA.

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    Walther von Oldenburg
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    Post  Walther von Oldenburg on Sat Aug 08, 2020 5:48 pm

    How do you prove that people purged in 1930s USSR were traitors? They were the first Bolsheviks and the most dedicated and Stalin was one of them BTW. He got awau because he managed to climb to the top.

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    Post  kvs on Sat Aug 08, 2020 5:50 pm

    Walther von Oldenburg wrote:How do you prove that people purged in 1930s USSR were traitors? They were the first Bolsheviks and the most dedicated and Stalin was one of them BTW. He got awau because he managed to climb to the top.

    You are engaging in sophistry and thus a troll.

    Bugger off.

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    Walther von Oldenburg
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    Post  Walther von Oldenburg on Sat Aug 08, 2020 7:53 pm

    I was talking only about 1930s. You're right in regards to today's situation.
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    Post  PapaDragon on Sat Aug 08, 2020 8:18 pm

    Walther von Oldenburg wrote:Stalin's killing of so many people was actually counterproductive. Just firing/demoting them would be enough.

    Correct

    Commie propensity for random mass murder did not do them any favors

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    Post  miketheterrible on Sat Aug 08, 2020 8:40 pm

    GarryB wrote:Evidence of corruption... I would say the FSB should be taking a very close look into this...

    I believe there will be enough backlash from this that they (economics minister) will be forced to make the change quicker.
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    Post  Hole on Sat Aug 08, 2020 8:49 pm

    https://www.stalkerzone.org/russia-accelerates-the-sovereignisation-of-capital/

    Take a look at this article.

    Bilateral agreements have to be adjusted. Russian laws have to be changed. This is no easy task which is done over night if you don´t want any loopholes to remain.

    For 30 years there was done nothing, another 4 years is not the end of the world.

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    Post  GarryB on Sun Aug 09, 2020 4:44 am

    Stalin's killing of so many people was actually counterproductive. Just firing/demoting them would be enough.

    The west goes on and on about all the millions of officers and public officials that were executed by Stalin, but in 1942-43 many were brought miraculously to life and returned to service... don't believe the narrative that Stalin killed everyone... many of their best designers were put essentially under house arrest, but in conditions rather better than people in the west would have been enjoying at the time. It wasn't so much a gulag... more a holiday camp for specialists to work without distraction...

    That only holds for average incompetents. Traitors have the death penalty in the USA.

    The British and French and Americans shot plenty of poor souls for the crime of cowardice when a better diagnosis would be shell shock...

    But at the time refusing to murder another person for your king and country was a crime in most countries... are you going to judge them by todays standards?

    How do you prove that people purged in 1930s USSR were traitors? They were the first Bolsheviks and the most dedicated and Stalin was one of them BTW. He got awau because he managed to climb to the top.

    No one can, but don't you read books and watch TV shows... Riley Ace of Spies is set in the 1930s and 40s and shows the sort of underhanded dirty shit the British were prepared to do to undermine the commies.... part of the reason Stalin didn't do anything the first few days of the German invasion is probably because he was convinced it was a British plot to get them involved in Britains war with Germany.... Stalin wasn't interested in fighting Germany over their invasion of Poland... considering he took the opportunity to take back the part of Poland that was Russia till the end of WWI during the Russian civil war when Poland seized the territory from them.
    Stalin had no reason at all to trust the British.

    Commie propensity for random mass murder did not do them any favors

    Hahahaha.... and has the damage from democracies bombs of peace been cleaned up completely in your neck of the woods... there was no communism in Yugoslavia but there seemed to be lots of interest in mass graves that often turned out imaginary when the Serbs were to blame... but quite real in other cases.

    Of course with most of your organs removed they can put you in a smaller grave that is harder to find I guess...

    I believe there will be enough backlash from this that they (economics minister) will be forced to make the change quicker.

    Should be looked into anyway...

    Take a look at this article.

    Bilateral agreements have to be adjusted. Russian laws have to be changed. This is no easy task which is done over night if you don´t want any loopholes to remain.

    For 30 years there was done nothing, another 4 years is not the end of the world.

    Doesn't hurt to have it rechecked... it is what they do...
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    Post  PapaDragon on Sun Aug 09, 2020 11:06 am

    GarryB wrote:...Hahahaha.... and has the damage from democracies bombs of peace been cleaned up completely in your neck of the woods... there was no communism in Yugoslavia but there seemed to be lots of interest in mass graves that often turned out imaginary when the Serbs were to blame... but quite real in other cases.

    Of course with most of your organs removed they can put you in a smaller grave that is harder to find I guess...

    There was plenty of communism in Yugoslavia, that's how we got the mass killings of Serbs during the late 40s, reds are nothing if not predictable, they want to make everyone equal and their preferred method of doing so is to cut down those who are more developed instead of developing those who are lagging behind

    And they most definitely killed way more than "democracy" did, it's not even in the same ballpark

    Just because you read something about Serbia on 4chan doesn't mean you know anything more about our history than any other random New Zealand hipster so please stick with talking about British history (and that of it's subservient territories) and don't insult others with usual Western ignorance




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    Post  GarryB on Sun Aug 09, 2020 1:08 pm

    And they most definitely killed way more than "democracy" did, it's not even in the same ballpark

    So from 1917 to 1991 communism has killed more people that "democracy".

    Right.


    And they most definitely killed way more than "democracy" did, it's not even in the same ballpark

    Keep saying it and it becomes true...

    The amusing thing is that the biggest conflict in the 20th century was the creation of Britain and France, but I am sure the millions killed are communisms fault... and of course the epidemics that killed so many people too... communism too...

    Just because you read something about Serbia on 4chan doesn't mean you know anything more about our history than any other random New Zealand hipster so please stick with talking about British history (and that of it's subservient territories) and don't insult others with usual Western ignorance

    I don't know what 4chan is, but are you denying the bombs of peace liberated your countrymen from your fixation with Russia and communism, while neighbours made lots of money I would expect "finding" organs on the battlefield for rich westerners... poor westerners need organs too but if they can't afford the price then they don't get them right?

    But of course it is communists that are the bad guys...
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    Post  PapaDragon on Sun Aug 09, 2020 1:32 pm


    GarryB wrote:....

    Again you are talking about things you have no knowledge of whatsoever

    Take a chill pill, order another decaf latte and stick with discussing Queen's domain

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    Post  kvs on Sun Aug 09, 2020 5:54 pm

    There is some 60 million killed by Stalin figure being thrown around. This is revisionist BS by Nazi lovers. A prime source
    of such propaganda is book Harvest of Sorrows which promotes the Holodomor hoax and uses photographs of the 1920s
    civil war famine on the Volga to "prove" that Ukrainians were starving in the 1930s. To this day, nobody has produced
    photographs of famine victims in Ukraine in the 1930s. Instead we have more fraud such the use of photographs from
    one of the early 1900s British occupant generated famines in India being passed of as from Ukraine!

    The 60 million figure is double the 30 million figure claimed by more "sober" western propagandists such as those on PBS.
    But they never detail this figure. One has to assume it includes 14 million Holodomor "victims" (from Bengal and the
    Russian Volga, bounce ). It is also not made clear whether the 10 million actual deaths during butcher Trotsky's
    civil war is being counted as Stalin's crime. It looks very much like it is. Propaganda is always ambiguous enough
    for people to fill in the blanks themselves, this cements its effect since it engages the "plausibility" analysis of the
    human brain.

    Another example of the revisionist Nazi apologia is that 20% of the gulag inmates died each year. This is a pure lie.
    That peak death only occurred in 1942 when agriculture in the USSR was in very bad shape due to the Nazi invasion
    (a lot of farm land fell under Nazi control and Siberia was not exactly an easy backup plan). So people were starving
    around the USSR and not just in the gulags. So we have millions of supposed deaths in gulags. This is false and
    about 800,000 people died in the gulags and due to Stalin's repressions. As with the 14 million Holodomor hoax
    number all western "estimates" (they are not even that, they are purely pulled form the anus) are not credible.

    During Yeltsin's term in power about 8 million citizens of the Russian Federation died from unnatural causes. They
    are clearly victims of Yeltsin's regime and his shock therapy voodoo economics to please NATzO. Nobody can fob
    off these 8 million as non-victims. They would not have died even if there stressed conditions of 1990 USSR
    were maintained. In this regard, Lukashenko deserves a lot of credit since he prevented such deaths in Belorus.

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    Post  Hole on Sun Aug 09, 2020 8:40 pm

    The peace-loving western democracies started one war after the other in Africa, Asia and South America. But they had no choice because evil communists would have taken over these ressouce rich countries. angel

    Sarcasm out.

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    Post  kvs on Sun Aug 09, 2020 10:18 pm

    Hole wrote:The peace-loving western democracies started one war after the other in Africa, Asia and South America. But they had no choice because evil communists would have taken over these ressouce rich countries. angel

    Sarcasm out.

    There were liberation insurrections during the 1900s where people tried to throw off the colonial yoke. The colonialist west supported
    colonial occupation governments against "radicals".

    Cuba is an example. It only went into the Soviet camp because Uncle Scumbag did not actually want democracy in Cuba. He was
    too invested in the regime of Batista. This was the pattern through the whole of Latin America. In Argentina there was a dirty
    war in the 1970s against rather mild leftists who wanted Argentina to be not be a right wing yanqui satrap. The US staged all
    sorts of right wing coups in Argentina in the 1950s to foist its control over the country. The fact that Daniel Ortega has won
    votes long after the US instigated Contra war shows you where the public support in Latin America is. It is not in favour of
    US backed regimes.

    Latin America all by itself is more than enough proof of what slime Uncle Scumbag is and how utterly empty is US propaganda
    about "derechos humanos" (human rights) and democracy. It's human rights and democracy only if it serves US imperial interests
    which are primarily economic exploitation.

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    Post  kvs on Mon Aug 10, 2020 10:42 pm



    I link a lot of his videos but this an example where he is dead wrong.

    He thinks that a high prime rate set by the CBR is a good thing because it enables saving by consumers.
    He proceeds to chirp that reducing the insane CBR prime rate is injecting "easy money" into the economy
    of the sort we see in the west.

    1) Consumer savings are a myth. Consumers never made any serious money through bank interest. They
    only accumulated money paid to them by their employers. Banks were never like the stock market where
    one could make millions with the right choices. He is confused about savings since in the past it was
    the aggregate bank savings of consumers that enabled banks to lend out lots of money to companies for
    their operations. The purchasing power of consumers was never due to the central bank prime rate
    in the form of savings accretion. Purchasing power has always been linked to the size of the wages
    and the inflation rate.

    2) It has been patently clear over the last 20+ years that Russian companies are starved for domestic
    credit from the Russian banking system. The loan-shark level interest rates (banks set a rate higher
    than the CBR prime) drove Russian companies to borrow abroad where they could find loans in the 3-4%
    rate range. In Russia they had to pay over 8% for most of the last 20 years. The narrator clearly
    has no clue what easy money is. Companies borrow not because they use loans as substitutes for
    income. Being a vatnik ignoramus his understanding of capitalist economics is non-existent. Companies
    borrow to be competitive and to innovate. They cannot make money off products that do not exist.
    They have to develop them first and that requires borrowing money. In spite of all the actual Pancho Villa
    finance in the USA, the existence of a potent venture capital supplier base is actually are real US advantage.
    In Russia, there is very little venture capital capacity thanks in part to the ridiculous lending rates.

    3) Due to the absurd CBR policy, the Russian banking system is tiny and almost irrelevant. Banks grow
    through their loans and loan demand is set by the affordability of the interest rate. So Ostashko can
    bitch about easy money since he thinks he is being a patriot all he wants. But he is actually being a useful idiot
    for Russia's enemies. A weak banking sector is one of the prime weaknesses of Russia. Powerful
    banks in the west are one of the prime reasons for the power of the west.

    So the prime rate by the CBR kills two birds with one stone: the economic potential of Russia by depriving
    Russian companies of necessary lending resources and the Russian banking sector since it can't grow if
    nobody wants to borrow from it.

    The reduction of the prime rate by the CBR is a win for Russia. The much higher than inflation rate was
    choking Russia's growth. That is why the CBR monetarists and their Ministry of Finance buddies were in
    favour.

    Also, reducing the prime rate to a sane level is not the same thing as quantitative easing and a culture of
    consumer debt. The prime rate will hardly give Russian consumers 3% personal loans. They will still
    be paying high rates just like the in the west. The Soviet model of accumulating rubles to buy stuff is
    no longer viable in Russia. If people want to buy apartments or private houses, then they need affordable
    mortgage rates. Waiting 20 years to accumulate enough savings to buy with cash is a guaranteed fail
    since in 20 years the inflation adjusted price will have gone up substantially. Russia is not immune from
    such market price dynamics. If it does not want them, then it needs to go back to a command economy.



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    Post  kvs on Tue Aug 11, 2020 10:35 pm



    As with Cyprus, Russia has issued notices to Malta, The Netherlands and Luxemburg to change the double taxation agreements
    and those effectively terminate them as offshore havens for Russian money.

    I think the clowns at the Ministry of Finance will be steam rolled by Putin if they attempt to delay this by 5 years or more.
    Note that the delay period goes past Putin's current term which is six years from early 2018. The monetarist maggots are
    clearly plotting to wait it out for some potentially soft successor who will go back to sucking oligarch cock and thus
    bending over for NATzO. They are sorely mistaken if they think it will be that easy.

    I were Putin I would completely purge the Ministry of Finance. Their behaviour is clear sedition.

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    Post  LMFS on Tue Aug 11, 2020 11:12 pm

    kvs wrote:I think the clowns at the Ministry of Finance will be steam rolled by Putin if they attempt to delay this by 5 years or more.

    He has already told them about removing the budget restrictions to medicine and defence...
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    Post  calripson on Wed Aug 12, 2020 12:17 am

    They are Anglophile, English speaking, monetarists who secretly hate Russia and all things Russian and who represent the interests of the oligarchs and the moneyed class (real estate in Spain, dual citizenship in UK or Israel, kids in private school in Switzerland or the UK). The moment Putin is gone they will pop up like mushrooms after a rain looking to redirect that money flow offshore.
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    Post  GarryB on Wed Aug 12, 2020 12:53 pm

    The thing is that Putin is rather nice to the west and the oligarchs... he could have a purge and get revenge on the west, but he cares about the consequences on Russia.

    Another leader might think appearing weak is not worth it and that the west plays the game so Russia should play the same game while the current rules are in place...

    We all though Bush jnr wasn't very smart or honest... but now we look back with nostalgia... at least he stuck to agreements and was relatively predictable...
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    Post  Hole on Wed Aug 12, 2020 8:33 pm

    https://www.stalkerzone.org/those-waiting-for-the-collapse-of-russia-can-relax/
    Good stuff
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    Post  kvs on Wed Aug 12, 2020 10:58 pm

    Hole wrote:https://www.stalkerzone.org/those-waiting-for-the-collapse-of-russia-can-relax/
    Good stuff

    The author is clueless about inflation.   The "inflation" in the USSR had nothing to do with fiat circulation.   Rubles were vouchers
    and there was a command economy.   The idea that USSR production depended on ruble revenue like capitalist economics is
    simple BS.   Nobody's salary depended on sales income at any level.  

    Soviet inflation was of the physical variety.   People were paid regardless of effort, so they did not care about their jobs.   This
    resulted in the parking whole trainloads of produce in marshaling yards to rot and for production lines were Soviet manufacturing was
    out-competing Detroit of the 1970s in the race to bottom quality.  This resulted in shortages of goods and services.  So there was
    a type of diffusion on the economic function to produce goods and services.   The inflation was degradation.

    The decrease in gold reserves reflected this decay since the USSR had to import grains and other goods which it failed to
    produce itself thanks to sub-optimal economics (the USSR could, in principle, grow all of its own wheat like modern Russia).
    Imports could only be bought for gold since the west did not care for rubles.   And the USSR did not have enough trade
    with the west to make rubles a viable unit of exchange.

    The author brings up the $500 billion dollar total private and sovereign debt of Russia.   No other country on the planet is ever
    evaluated for the debt of the private sector.   That debt is not secured and defaults cost the national economy nothing other
    than degradation of standing of its companies if enough of them default.   Talking about private debt in the same breath
    as sovereign debt is nonsense.  Instead of being a parrot for NATzO fake stream talking points, the author should consider
    the fact that Russian companies paid off over $240 billion of their debt after 2014 without any economic contraction.
    It was about $740 billion in 2013 and is now under $500 billion.   GDP accounting considers this offshoring of principal
    to be a total negative.   So Russia's GDP lost $240 billion x 65 (average forex of rubles to dollars) = 15.6 trillion
    rubles.   The annual Russian GDP was over 25 trillion in 2019 but the average from 2013 is lower.    But Russia's real
    GDP grew during this period.   That tells you how much real growth Russia's economy has.

    So the ranking of 10th place in terms of exchange reserves is an utterly meaningless one.   Russia clearly does not need
    its exchange reserves to pay off debt.   So the confounding of sovereign debt with total debt is patent retardation.
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    Post  LMFS on Thu Aug 13, 2020 12:36 am

    kvs wrote:So the ranking of 10th place in terms of exchange reserves is an utterly meaningless one.   Russia clearly does not need
    its exchange reserves to pay off debt.   So the confounding of sovereign debt with total debt is patent retardation.

    Awara Group made a nice study about debt corrected GDP of the West and it was appalling. As it would be to include private debt + state liabilities in the US debt count, the zeroes in the keyboard run out... Russia is in as good a financial shape as a country can be.
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    Post  miketheterrible on Thu Aug 13, 2020 1:06 am

    LMFS wrote:
    kvs wrote:I think the clowns at the Ministry of Finance will be steam rolled by Putin if they attempt to delay this by 5 years or more.

    He has already told them about removing the budget restrictions to medicine and defence...

    He did? When?
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    Post  miketheterrible on Thu Aug 13, 2020 1:12 am

    https://tass.com/economy/1187791

    Russia halts denunciation of tax agreement with Cyprus
    Cyprus has agreed to Russia’s terms on raising the tax on dividend and interest to 15%, Russia’s Finance Ministry informed Monday

    Sponsored content

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