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    Revisionism about WWII and USSR

    SeigSoloyvov
    SeigSoloyvov


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    Post  SeigSoloyvov Mon Sep 07, 2020 11:11 am

    GarryB wrote:
    The bombs could not be an additional reason to the soviet invasion since the bombs came before the invasion...its SHOCKING, I had to explain this.

    The bombs were an efficient way of doing something they were already doing.

    Whether it took one B-29 to drop one nuke or 500 B-29s to drop incendiaries.... either way that city burned to the ground...

    The Soviet invasion was something they were obliged to do via agreements with the US at Yalta, and it was the closing of the option of suing for peace via the Soviets that clearly led to the Japanese to realise unconditional was as good as they were going to get... and was better than they deserved.

    Compared with how the Allies treated the Germans the Japs got off almost scot free.... another reason to dislike the Americans...

    Do you think Japan got off scot-free? we destroyed their culture and turned them into a nation of weeaboos, office drones, and more.

    Compared to how they once where, they are nothing. It's a shame really, to see once-proud people reduced to such a sad state.

    Much of the horrible treatment Germany got came from the USSR, but this depends on what you mean by treatment. The USSR would rape the females, labor camps etc. They killed more civilians then us.

    Yes, we firebombed Japan, but the USSR would level German cities in their advance...I honestly don't get why you're bringing this up, The USSR did similar stuff are you going to concem them also or just be biased and go "Weeeeh US did bad".

    Again I don't care i you wanna condem the US for something you believe is wrong but then do the same for everyone.

    kvs
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    Post  kvs Mon Sep 07, 2020 1:45 pm

    Note how SS never posts any links and factual information. He/it just spouts some crap and expects to be taken seriously.

    Tsavo Lion
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    Post  Tsavo Lion Mon Sep 07, 2020 6:05 pm

    Exactly, & he repeats the the twisted US self-serving historiography justifying the nuking of Japan.
    the Emperor and general staff by august 7th confirmed they wanted surrender ..
    It was already past 0200 on 10 August; the cleavage in the council was as pronounced as ever. The Premier noted that despite several hours of continuous discussion, the question remained unsettled; that in this extremely crucial hour there could be no further delays. Under the circumstances, he was proposing the Emperor's wish be made known. Suzuki, stepping forward in an unexampled act in Japan's constitutional history, requested the Emperor to state his opinion, and at the same time, pleaded with the group to accept the Emperor's resolve as final.
    https://history.army.mil/books/wwii/MacArthur%20Reports/MacArthur%20V2%20P2/ch20.htm
    Do u homework before posting anymore self-righteous spin!
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Tue Sep 08, 2020 8:34 am


    Do you think Japan got off scot-free? we destroyed their culture and turned them into a nation of weeaboos, office drones, and more.

    They perpetrated some of the worst war crimes of history, to call what they did inhumane is a joke.

    They cut off arms and reattached them some times on the other side of the body, which meant both arms cut off of course.

    They were worried that chemicals and drugs might effect the results so no drugs were given for the pain... ever...

    And they did this to women and children and prisoners of war too.

    Or did you just think they made them build bridges?

    They tested all sorts of diseases.... get 500 prisoners and infect them all with something and then every day take three or four and do an autopsy to see how the disease has progressed... note these were live autopsies... no drugs, though they were likely dead by the time they got to sectioning the brain.

    The Americans offered jobs in the US and houses for their families if they didn't destroy their notes but many did because they knew if the public found out about what they were doing they would get executed for war crimes.

    We were told at the time that most of the information they managed to recover was useless because of the methods used and they things they recorded, but I suspect the CIA probably got quite a few great torture ideas out of it...

    Much of the horrible treatment Germany got came from the USSR, but this depends on what you mean by treatment. The USSR would rape the females, labor camps etc. They killed more civilians then us.

    Yeah, because your carpet bombing and fire bombing of Europe uses the same magic bombs you use today... it only kills the bad guys so when it kills women and children then it was because they were on a military base and therefore must have been helping the German military and therefore were a legitimate target... didn't you know... entire German cities were German military bases so all the women and children and old men that those bombings killed were obviously SS soldiers if the highest calibre.

    Inmates in labour camps would rape each other... and compared with what the Germans did in the Soviet Union I would say a minor taste of their own medicine.

    It is like the Enemy at the Gates movie... one moment in the battle the Soviets were getting pushed and had to send troops over in daylight... because of the urgency they didn't take their heavy weapons, but they were fully equipped and armed with small arms and machine guns and light mortars... but Hollywierd hears a story about earlier on in the conflict where a milita group of workers were used to slow the German advance where some were not equipped with a rifle and were expected to pick up weapons on the battlefield and all of a sudden everyone who watches Enemy at the Gates thinks every soviet soldier got a five round clip of ammo or a rifle... ignoring the fact that that would mean half their force was essentially unarmed and the other half didn't get any ammo...

    But lets keep exceptions as the normal and believe all the bullshit we are told...

    Yes, we firebombed Japan, but the USSR would level German cities in their advance...I honestly don't get why you're bringing this up,

    I thought it was pretty clear but if you need it even simpler... the nuclear bombs killed all the people in a city at a time... the firebombing missions took longer to organise and equip and took lots more planes to achieve but essentially ended up doing the same thing... destroying all the buildings and killing all the people.

    Therefore the nuclear bombs were not as scary as some seem to suggest, and certainly not the war winner.

    If anything the use of two nuclear weapons on Japan were more a signal to Stalin of how utterly ruthless the US will be to its enemies...
    SeigSoloyvov
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    Post  SeigSoloyvov Tue Sep 08, 2020 11:29 am

    What the soviets did to the german is well documented, I am not saying the US didn't so its own share but in term of Europe in WW2 the soviets did worse then we did.

    In the pacific yes we did worse then them, No need to make it simple when your being biased Garry. I do not care if you desire to criticize the US long as you apply that same standard to everyone else.

    SeigSoloyvov
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    Post  SeigSoloyvov Tue Sep 08, 2020 11:34 am

    Tsavo Lion wrote:Exactly, & he repeats the the twisted US self-serving historiography justifying the nuking of Japan.
    the Emperor and general staff by august 7th confirmed they wanted surrender ..
    It was already past 0200 on 10 August; the cleavage in the council was as pronounced as ever. The Premier noted that despite several hours of continuous discussion, the question remained unsettled; that in this extremely crucial hour there could be no further delays. Under the circumstances, he was proposing the Emperor's wish be made known. Suzuki, stepping forward in an unexampled act in Japan's constitutional history, requested the Emperor to state his opinion, and at the same time, pleaded with the group to accept the Emperor's resolve as final.
    https://history.army.mil/books/wwii/MacArthur%20Reports/MacArthur%20V2%20P2/ch20.htm
    Do u homework before posting anymore self-righteous spin!

    I did do my HW, you are just trying to revise history.

    Hirihito demanded surrender by August 7th that is again confirmed by HIMSELF and others including Asada well as documents.

    Yes some hard liners did not want to surrender but that's a moot point, fact is by August 7th the Emperor and much of the government wanted to surrender simply a few hard liners refuses. The Emperor did overrule them once he saw, they would not do what he wanted.

    He at first left it up to them to work out the surrender.

    You can try and revise history all you want but the decision to surrender goes back to AUGUST 7TH a day before the USSR attacked.

    Some morons refusing doesn't mean the soviets was the main cause for the surrender.

    So keep trying to rewrite history I guess. Your the one posting self rightoue spins.

    Your trying to use an old argument "well a few guys in Japan refused to surrender until after the soviets attack" Yeah and THEY WHERE STILL UNWILLING to surrender after the soviets did.

    Hirihito simply had enough of them trying to delay his wishes, he did not want to see Japan nuked to hell and sure I doubted he wanted his people to suffer under the USSR by that point but I will repeat this. "HE IS ON RECORD WANTING TO SURRENDER BEFORE THEY ATTACKED".

    Again, your an idioit if you think your links override what Hirihito himself has said.
    Tsavo Lion
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    Post  Tsavo Lion Tue Sep 08, 2020 3:46 pm

    Hirohito demanded surrender by August 7th that is again confirmed by HIMSELF and others including Asada well as documents.
    there's no proof of that; on the contrary, the article I posted contradicts that assertion. Mulling surrender & demanding it isn't the same thing.
    The US & Japanese involved in that process & later Cold War propaganda machine had no benefit in admitting the truth: the USSR entry into the war, even if insignificant in itself as some claim, was the straw that broke the camel's back.
    As the Japanese saying goes: u tell me once, I trust u; tell me twice, I doubt u; tell me trice, I don't believe u. Keep believing the official US propaganda & historiography that helps perpetuate the war crimes of the so-called Western Civilization.
    SeigSoloyvov
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    Post  SeigSoloyvov Tue Sep 08, 2020 5:01 pm

    Tsavo Lion wrote:
    Hirohito demanded surrender by August 7th that is again confirmed by HIMSELF and others including Asada well as documents.
    there's no proof of that; on the contrary, the article I posted contradicts that assertion. Mulling surrender & demanding it isn't the same thing.
    The US & Japanese involved in that process & later Cold War propaganda machine had no benefit in admitting the truth: the USSR entry into the war, even if insignificant in itself as some claim, was the straw that broke the camel's back.
    As the Japanese saying goes: u tell me once, I trust u; tell me twice, I doubt u; tell me trice, I don't believe u. Keep believing the official US propaganda & historiography that helps perpetuate the war crimes of the so-called Western Civilization.

    There is you just don't want to admit so you can peddle your history revision.

    Kōichi Kido stated the Emperor told him and this is documented. He was the last Lord Keeper of the Privy Seal of Japan

    “Now that things have come to this impasse, we must bow to the inevitable. No matter what happens to my safety, we should lose no time in ending the war so as not to have another tragedy like this.”

    There are also other documented statements from members of Imperial Japan that confirm the Emperor wanted a surrender by the 7th.

    This statement sums it up the best.

    "the Soviet intervention was a significant but not decisive reason for Japan’s surrender. It was, at best, a reinforcing but not fundamental reason for the intervention by the Emperor.”

    The Japanese leadership knew it was over by August 7th, the entrance of the USSR simply added a secondary reason for their surrender but it was not the primary or decisive reason for their surrender.

    KVS thinking the naval war and landing operations in the pacific was a "side show" shows how biased he is, that statement is idiotic of him to say frankly. By the time the USSR attacked Japan they have been utterly crushed by the United States, they did not have the equipment, rescources or manpower to continue the war by 1945. It was over.
    Tsavo Lion
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    Post  Tsavo Lion Tue Sep 08, 2020 7:07 pm

    The US wasn't going to allow the USSR take 1/2 of Japan like it took Austria & E. Germany.
    The bottom line is that the Emperor was able to prevail only after it was clear the USSR was not to be counted on for staying neutral, nor as a go between Japan & the US. And he was going to surrender ASAP to preserve his rule, not to save any more lives of his subjects. 
    U post interpretations of events by interested participants/parties that support the commonly accepted & biased narrative that conveniently omits facts contradicting it. The victors write history, not losers. Enough said on that.


    Last edited by Tsavo Lion on Sat Sep 12, 2020 4:09 am; edited 3 times in total (Reason for editing : add link)
    Tsavo Lion
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    Post  Tsavo Lion Sat Sep 26, 2020 7:27 pm



    https://original.antiwar.com/David_Swanson/2020/09/24/wwii-was-not-fought-to-save-anyone-from-death-camps/

    All Jews still in 1945 in E. European German controlled concentration camps were freed by the Red Army.


    Last edited by Tsavo Lion on Sun Sep 27, 2020 11:58 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : add link)

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    Tsavo Lion
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    Post  Tsavo Lion Thu Oct 15, 2020 6:44 am

    Tsavo Lion
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    Post  Tsavo Lion Tue Oct 27, 2020 1:57 am

    https://lenta.ru/news/2020/10/26/b29/

    3 B-29s wouldn't make the same mistake in navigation, so he's telling the truth- the USSR needed a comparable bomber for the post war period.
    franco
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    Post  franco Wed Oct 28, 2020 4:43 pm

    https://www.mid.ru/en/foreign_policy/news/-/asset_publisher/cKNonkJE02Bw/content/id/4409295

    Comment by the Information and Press Department on the resolution adopted by the German Bundestag on October 9, 2020 ‘Strengthening the memory of the victims in the German war of extermination and recognising the victims of National Socialism that have been previously neglected’ The Ministry of Foreign Affairs of the Russian Federation
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Thu Oct 29, 2020 3:49 am

    From that document it sounds like this is a situation where Ukraine and perhaps Belarus will be emphasised over Russia to effectively obscure the history of WWII in Russia by emphasising what happened to others.... traditionally in the west most attention was given to Jewish experience during that conflict and the majority of the suffering was ignored because it was on Soviet territory and the victims were Soviets which we didn't really care about promoting.

    Now that Ukraine and potentially Belarus are looking to the EU and HATO then sucking up to the radicals in those populations makes sense...
    Tsavo Lion
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    Post  Tsavo Lion Tue Dec 08, 2020 1:42 am



    Last edited by Tsavo Lion on Tue Dec 08, 2020 1:59 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : add link)
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Tue Dec 08, 2020 1:43 pm

    What the soviets did to the german is well documented, I am not saying the US didn't so its own share but in term of Europe in WW2 the soviets did worse then we did.

    The point I am trying to get across to you is that the Germans entered Soviet territory in 1941 and the Soviets didn't get to actual German territory with German civilians in Kaliningrad till April 1945, so the Soviets were killing German soldiers from the middle of 1941, while the German civilians areas were not occupied by Soviet forces till 1945...

    US and UK bombing campaigns bombed German cities... the Brits started in may 1940... the US joined in about mid 1942, but as I said... the Soviets killing German soldiers on the eastern front for four years obviously they murdered more German women and children than the Yanks and the Brits did because they had magic bombs and didn't bomb German cities for a couple of years.... Rolling Eyes

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    George1
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    Post  George1 Wed Dec 09, 2020 8:07 pm

    Attempts to rewrite the results of World War II, to devalue the role of the Soviet Union in the defeat of Nazi Germany, as well as to find new culprits in unleashing the bloodiest massacre in history, all this despite high ideals and a desire for unity for the good of world peace.

    These are the geopolitical realities of today.

    What changed? Why did the leading world powers stop hearing each other and finding a common language? How did the falsification of history become one of the most important tools for inciting global conflict and is humanity really on the verge of an atomic war?

    The answer is in the new documentary "The World after the War" from the series "X-Files", filmed by the team of the TV channel "Zvezda".

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    Tsavo Lion
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    Post  Tsavo Lion Fri Dec 18, 2020 4:08 am

    SVR of RF declassified documents: https://www.vesti.ru/article/2499955

    https://ria.ru/20201217/gitler-1589634804.html?in=t

    https://vz.ru/society/2020/12/18/1076504.html


    Last edited by Tsavo Lion on Sat Dec 19, 2020 6:36 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : add link)
    Tsavo Lion
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    Post  Tsavo Lion Thu Dec 24, 2020 9:24 pm

    https://fpif.org/echoes-of-nomonhan/

    At its peak the Mongol Empire unified both Russia & China which in turn saved Mongolia & liberated Korea from Japanese & American colonization.
    As a result of WWII, Japan is no longer an empire, & the American empire is now on the retreat in E. Asia.



    Last edited by Tsavo Lion on Fri Dec 25, 2020 6:04 am; edited 2 times in total (Reason for editing : add link)
    Tsavo Lion
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    Post  Tsavo Lion Tue Dec 29, 2020 6:29 pm

    https://ria.ru/20201229/voyna-1591318926.html
    kvs
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    Post  kvs Tue Dec 29, 2020 6:43 pm

    Tsavo Lion wrote:https://ria.ru/20201229/voyna-1591318926.html

    Some real history comes out. Not the boilerplate drivel about how Stalin dismissed information from a Soviet agent about
    Hitler's war plans. Because "Stalin and Hitler were allies" is a precious NATzO revisionist narrative. Funny how the USSR
    rightfully regaining land occupied by Poland in 1920 (western Ukraine and Belorus) is "a carve up of Poland". Yeah, because
    occupations become instantly legal even if the local populations resist these occupations. The same BS "principle" is
    applied in Crimea where it all of the sudden became ancient ancestral Banderite land after its 1990 occupation by Ukraine.
    But the Serbian province of Kosovo i Metohija is somehow an independent Albanian state because Albanians got a local majority
    there. Local non-Polish majorities in western Ukraine and Belorus and the Russian majority (which predates 1954) in Crimea
    count for nothing.

    Get fcuked you NATzO slimebags.

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    Tsavo Lion
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    Post  Tsavo Lion Tue Dec 29, 2020 6:57 pm

    Hitler was an Austrian idiot- allowed Germany to be used by Brits in 1941 instead of arranging emigration of Germans to the  USSR &/ underpopulated Sweden, Canada, Australia & Argentina.

    The Allied Rift on Strategic Bombing

    kvs
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    Post  kvs Tue Dec 29, 2020 7:10 pm

    I have heard credible analysis from ethnic Germans about how Hitler was a British project. I think Hitler was a
    project of the USA as well. American corporations directly built up Hitler's military factories and American banks
    directly financed the Nazi military build up. American corporations supplied the Nazis with oil even during WWII.

    America loves to hide behind the BS claim that these corporations "were independent actors". Yeah, right.
    Not only is America an oligarchic kleptocracy where corporations rule (and thus represent the USA), it is
    the responsibility of any country to police its citizens (and US corporations are considered legal persons).
    Let's see some US citizen act against US interests anywhere on the planet including the USA and be left
    untouched. America even imprisons foreign citizens for "violating laws passed by the USA". The notion
    that US corporations helping the Nazis during the 1930s and 1940s is some "independent" activity is total
    BS.

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    Post  LMFS Wed Dec 30, 2020 12:04 am

    Ruling elites grow their Pitbulls from time to time to do their dirty job, nothing new here. They are doing the same as we speak with the takfiri and neo-nazis in Eastern Europe. It is simply absurd to think Hitler was allowed to disproportionately grow the German military from zero and to military take over the whole Europe without any resistance just because he got all of the powers napping. Interestingly, this is the very same ludicrous excuse of the type "oops, we had good intentions but were maybe too naive!" the West gives every time they turn a country into a shithole. Coincidences do not exist in politics...

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    magnumcromagnon
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    Post  magnumcromagnon Wed Dec 30, 2020 1:27 am

    kvs wrote:I have heard credible analysis from ethnic Germans about how Hitler was a British project.   I think Hitler was a
    project of the USA as well.   American corporations directly built up Hitler's military factories and American banks
    directly financed the Nazi military build up.   American corporations supplied the Nazis with oil even during WWII.

    America loves to hide behind the BS claim that these corporations "were independent actors".  Yeah, right.
    Not only is America an oligarchic kleptocracy where corporations rule (and thus represent the USA), it is
    the responsibility of any country to police its citizens (and US corporations are considered legal persons).
    Let's see some US citizen act against US interests anywhere on the planet including the USA and be left
    untouched.   America even imprisons foreign citizens for "violating laws passed by the USA".   The notion
    that US corporations helping the Nazis during the 1930s and 1940s is some "independent" activity is total
    BS.

    Facts and Fascism - by George Seldes

    https://archive.org/details/FactsAndFascism/FactsandFascism_BW/page/n3/mode/2up
    https://ia800209.us.archive.org/12/items/FactsAndFascism/FactsandFascism_BW.pdf

    Sponsored content


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