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Log inUnless & until there's a new treaty in place limiting hypersonic missiles!
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50 posters
"Kinzhal" hypersonic aviation-missile complex
Tsavo Lion- Posts : 5685
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Join date : 2016-08-15
Location : AZ, USA
Ives- Posts : 57
Points : 71
Join date : 2017-11-09
Tsavo Lion wrote:Unless & until there's a new treaty in place limiting hypersonic missiles!
Why such treaty should even take place? Because yankees are backwarded in hypersonic stuff?
Tsavo Lion- Posts : 5685
Points : 5669
Join date : 2016-08-15
Location : AZ, USA
They'll catch up eventually, or respond by increasing their tactical nukes arsenal. I know their mentality well!
Ives- Posts : 57
Points : 71
Join date : 2017-11-09
Tsavo Lion wrote:They'll catch up eventually, or respond by increasing their tactical nukes arsenal. I know their mentality well!
Increased number of nukes won't change much. And US will get the equivalent of Iskander-M only after 2027. So, any Kinzhal's conterpart will be available only after 2027 eventually.
Tsavo Lion- Posts : 5685
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Join date : 2016-08-15
Location : AZ, USA
We have 12 SSBNs with 24 SLBMs each & 4 SSGNs with 154 SLCMs each + 10 future Virginia Vs with 28 SLCMs each; some could get reduced yield nuclear warheads on them, not to mention many surface ships with CMs & the AF ALCMs. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virginia-class_submarine#Block_V
https://www.cnbc.com/2018/02/02/trump-nuclear-posture-document-encourages-use-of-nukes-say-critics.html
https://www.cnbc.com/2018/02/02/trump-nuclear-posture-document-encourages-use-of-nukes-say-critics.html
GunshipDemocracy
GunshipDemocracy- Posts : 5452
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Join date : 2015-05-17
Location : fishin on Stalin´s Strait between Mexico and Canada
- Post n°156
Re: "Kinzhal" hypersonic aviation-missile complex
GunshipDemocracy Fri Aug 24, 2018 4:32 am
Ives wrote:Tsavo Lion wrote:Unless & until there's a new treaty in place limiting hypersonic missiles!
Why such treaty should even take place? Because yankees are backwarded in hypersonic stuff?
Actually yess. Why INF is in place in current shape? US fighters can reach Russian's mainland form EU and otherwise is not trivial. Why AMD shield exists?
Some times ago there was start of "proposals to limit hypersonic technology proliferation" initiated in US/UK where Russia and China were to restrict their hypersonic "export"
But no US is gonna catch up earlier - depending on funding.
Ives wrote:
5) It would be a lot easier to destroy NATO's air defence, air/naval bases in Europe with the missile, than USN's CBG, since the latter one is a lot better protected by electronic warfare, sprayed clouds and false-targets. It is safe to say, that with 400 Kinzhals, let's say, UK Armed Forces become easy meat for instance.
conventionally tipped. With tactical nukes can go easier.
Tsavo Lion wrote:Unless & until there's a new treaty in place limiting hypersonic missiles!
unlikely as PGM is very limited then not to mention AMD by Russian doorsteps . Poseidon torpedoes also wont go into any limits.
GarryB- Posts : 33875
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Join date : 2010-03-30
Location : New Zealand
Russia can choose... it can make the west give up something really serious for a treaty on hypersonic weapons, or it can just refuse.
If the US does not offer anything really appealing to Russia in return for limiting these weapons, then Russia has no real reason to limit itself...
The purpose of the Kinzhal will likely primarily be to engage ABM systems in Europe and any carrier groups near Russian waters... but with inflight refuelling and various other improvements the Tu-22M3M will extend the reach of the Kinzhal by quite a distance... and four of those missiles externally would mean the internal weapon bay would be free for 6 Kh-50 1,500km range subsonic cruise missiles on a rotary launcher...
Not really as safe as a fast moving MiG-31, but it could have a dozen Su-35s operating with it and it would certainly be able to fly at mach 1.5 for quite some distance...
If the US does not offer anything really appealing to Russia in return for limiting these weapons, then Russia has no real reason to limit itself...
The purpose of the Kinzhal will likely primarily be to engage ABM systems in Europe and any carrier groups near Russian waters... but with inflight refuelling and various other improvements the Tu-22M3M will extend the reach of the Kinzhal by quite a distance... and four of those missiles externally would mean the internal weapon bay would be free for 6 Kh-50 1,500km range subsonic cruise missiles on a rotary launcher...
Not really as safe as a fast moving MiG-31, but it could have a dozen Su-35s operating with it and it would certainly be able to fly at mach 1.5 for quite some distance...
GunshipDemocracy- Posts : 5452
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Location : fishin on Stalin´s Strait between Mexico and Canada
- Post n°158
Re: "Kinzhal" hypersonic aviation-missile complex
GunshipDemocracy Sun Aug 26, 2018 2:17 pm
GarryB wrote:
Not really as safe as a fast moving MiG-31, but it could have a dozen Su-35s operating with it and it would certainly be able to fly at mach 1.5 for quite some distance...
For EU - Kiznal MiG-31/Iskander pair should be OK. For Pacific or North Im convinced that Tus are 99% for "fleet clearing tasks" . Over Pacific you dotn have many airports right? so first you attack Us airbases and CSGs fork safedistance. Once way is cleared Tu-160M2s have cleared way to mainland...
Us cannot attack 2Ma jet form 1500 kms for mainland and wit such salvo of 5000kms CMs ...
Hole- Posts : 7003
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Join date : 2018-03-24
Age : 46
Location : Scholzistan
According to some sources (southfront):
miketheterrible- Posts : 7403
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Join date : 2016-11-06
- Post n°160
Re: "Kinzhal" hypersonic aviation-missile complex
miketheterrible Mon Aug 27, 2018 10:13 pm
These are the most dire times and the Kinzhal is the best option for Russia to have a heavy punch.
Since Iskander was recently tested against ships, it kinda further indicates that this is an air launched iskander. Fine by me as long as it works.
More need to be made, and more launch platforms.
Make it rain such missiles.
Since Iskander was recently tested against ships, it kinda further indicates that this is an air launched iskander. Fine by me as long as it works.
More need to be made, and more launch platforms.
Make it rain such missiles.
Hole- Posts : 7003
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Join date : 2018-03-24
Age : 46
Location : Scholzistan
At there current base the planes are hard to hit. But best base would be Hmeimim.
GunshipDemocracy- Posts : 5452
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Join date : 2015-05-17
Location : fishin on Stalin´s Strait between Mexico and Canada
- Post n°162
Re: "Kinzhal" hypersonic aviation-missile complex
GunshipDemocracy Tue Aug 28, 2018 11:34 am
Hole wrote:At there current base the planes are hard to hit. But best base would be Hmeimim.
True Red Sea could be included not sure about how large of Persian Gulf tho
LMFS- Posts : 4684
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GunshipDemocracy wrote:Hole wrote:At there current base the planes are hard to hit. But best base would be Hmeimim.
True Red Sea could be included not sure about how large of Persian Gulf tho
Waaay beyond Persian Gulf
Hole- Posts : 7003
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Join date : 2018-03-24
Age : 46
Location : Scholzistan
The circle is only the range of Kinzhal, add another 500 - 1000 km for the MiG-31K.
Tsavo Lion- Posts : 5685
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Join date : 2016-08-15
Location : AZ, USA
Depending on the mission profile:
But with a heavier missile, the combat radius is somewhat less.Combat radius: 1,450 km (900 mi, 780 nmi) at Mach 0.8 and at an altitude of 10,000 m (33,000 ft); 720 km (450 mi; 390 nmi) at Mach 2.35 and at an altitude of 18,000 m (59,000 ft)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mikoyan_MiG-31#Specifications_(MiG-31)
Tsavo Lion- Posts : 5685
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Join date : 2016-08-15
Location : AZ, USA
"Dagger" 21st Air Division of the Air Forces of the Russian Federation can cover half of China
GunshipDemocracy- Posts : 5452
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Location : fishin on Stalin´s Strait between Mexico and Canada
- Post n°167
Re: "Kinzhal" hypersonic aviation-missile complex
GunshipDemocracy Wed Oct 24, 2018 2:52 am
Tsavo Lion wrote:"Dagger" 21st Air Division of the Air Forces of the Russian Federation can cover half of China
NG is liberast's nest? best usage of kinzhal is their corporate seat
as for China why to bomb soon to be biggest trade partner? unless we are talking about invasion of USMC.
Tsavo Lion- Posts : 5685
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Central location of those squadrons r easier to defend & deploy. Even as a partner, China should have no illusions toward Russia's ability to defend its interests in C. Asia. See my post on the PLA thread.
GarryB- Posts : 33875
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Location : New Zealand
But with a heavier missile, the combat radius is somewhat less.
With inflight refuelling radius is somewhat more...
magnumcromagnon- Posts : 8159
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- Post n°170
Re: "Kinzhal" hypersonic aviation-missile complex
magnumcromagnon Mon Dec 17, 2018 4:57 pm
Here's a interesting photo of Khinzal:
...Look how much room is left underneath the MiG-31BM, lots of room for modernization potential. Just imagine what a large high-energy additional stage adding even a vastly greater speed and range. Like a ALICBM.
...Look how much room is left underneath the MiG-31BM, lots of room for modernization potential. Just imagine what a large high-energy additional stage adding even a vastly greater speed and range. Like a ALICBM.
GarryB- Posts : 33875
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Join date : 2010-03-30
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Well they did have the satellite launching missile that could put a 300kg payload into orbit... that would be plenty of capacity for a weapon and guidance and a de orbiting rocket... and putting it into earth orbit it wouldn't even need to leave Russian air space...
magnumcromagnon- Posts : 8159
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- Post n°172
Re: "Kinzhal" hypersonic aviation-missile complex
magnumcromagnon Sat Dec 22, 2018 12:37 am
zg18- Posts : 891
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Join date : 2013-09-26
Location : Zagreb , Croatia
First operational Mig-31 "Kinzhal" unit at Akhtubinsk 
https://twitter.com/reutersanders/status/1094611558402084864
https://twitter.com/reutersanders/status/1094611558402084864
Arrow- Posts : 1487
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Join date : 2012-02-12
Can Kinzhal be a rocket-killer of aircraft carriers?
GunshipDemocracy- Posts : 5452
Points : 5478
Join date : 2015-05-17
Location : fishin on Stalin´s Strait between Mexico and Canada
- Post n°175
Re: "Kinzhal" hypersonic aviation-missile complex
GunshipDemocracy Wed Feb 13, 2019 7:56 pm
Arrow wrote:Can Kinzhal be a rocket-killer of aircraft carriers?
not to be but it is. It is designed to turn CSGs into common Bed-of-honour in case some moron like to teach "Russia a lesson" .
Below an article about MiG-31 for Northern Fleet. I posted it here because there is is also an infographics about Kinzhal
The Northern Fleet received two upgraded MiG-31 fighter jets
https://iz.ru/845274/2019-02-13/severnyi-flot-poluchil-dva-modernizirovannykh-istrebitelia-mig-31
They say it flies on 25-30km and has CEP - 1m . But I dont expect everything is exact not to give any real hints to US intel.
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