Edit2: though I've presumed the 4* AEW referenced to be Ka-31s
See what I mean... when the focus is being a cheap bastard you loose critical capabilities that are necessary to make it even worth bothering.
Lack of real AWACS will make these carriers and the ships that operate with them horribly vulnerable.
The whole point of a carrier is to be able to bring along an AWACS platform... everything else is just gravy.
Russian economy will need to get off the oil needle, the sooner the better!
If the Russian economy was on the oil needle it would be collapsing like Venezuela is right now even without the sanctions imposed on it currently.
The fact that it isn't even in decline economically, shows it is not oil dependent, but it does benefit from its oil trade so US antics against Iran will actually benefit Russian and Venezuela in the short to medium term...
Russia should diversify her economy to not be so dependent on oil exports.
Perhaps you should compare the economic condition of Venezuela with Russia and make a few guesses as to why one is on the verge of collapse with its neighbour calling for invasion, and the other looks pretty damn stable... with its neighbour calling for invasion (Ukraine).
Russia should stick to exporting energents. It could export 100 different products in Germany and have them all rejected after sanctions start, but they decided to be their no. 1 provider of natural gas, structural backbone of entire economy and thus create a mutual dependency. Energy is very important. Now Germany is not being so hard on Russia when it comes to Ukraine and other focal points.
Lets be clear... in all the decades that the Soviet Union and Russia have been supplying energy to Europe the only times there have been problems was when the Ukrainians were stealing gas from Europe... they have otherwise never interfered with the flow of gas to what were and currently are her enemies.
Russia has no history of using commerce as a weapon... that is a western thing. But the lesson they are getting now might have implications down the track...
Rest assured: the US & their L. American allies will preempt Russia in Venezuela, like they did after WWII with military juntas, interventions & coups/regime changes in the Caribbean, C. & South America "to keep them out of Communist hands". Their economy is dependent on the US economy; the region is under the US thumb.
If Russia can't have a sphere of influence in the Ukraine and the Baltics and Balkans, then why should she respect US interference anywhere?
People aren't actually stupid... your control of media keeps them ignorant, but they are not actually stupid... even if they don't care... but the point is that as long as things are good they wont care, but when the three jobs they are working still doesn't pay the bills then you might start to have trouble shovelling that shit...
no you cannot ignore Europe. I didnt see it Germany, Austria, Italy, Nederlands, Hungary or Finland are trading with Russia. Poland too thumbsup thumbsup thumbsup . True that energy products are topping now but it is in all directions.
I am not suggesting ignoring Europe.... I am saying Europe is not a friend or an equal trading partner and can cut you off at a moments notice for something they accuse you have done... they will give no evidence and demand you admit your crime and promise never to do it again... that a future?
Because there were no money to invest in competitive products yet. If you spend on blue water navy you wont have them either for next couple of years. Everybody protects its market and Russia does it too. But where product's competitive (titanium carriages for Airbus, nuclear power plants Finland or Hungary). Will Russia have competitive products they will be on EU markets too. If they block Russia cuts but billions import from EU and grow due to market (still machine building / aerospace or 30 blns € alone on pharma...)
In Europe Russia would be competing with European and Asian and American products, and lets face it... what German is going to go out of their way to find a TV made in Russia?
In Asia and Africa and central and south america... Russia products can also compete, but with no local competition things are much easier, and price advantages mean more... and if you can follow it up with good PR like support after an earthquake or flood and you can build good relations... something too late with the west because their media has already designated Russia as the bad guys... Ukraine was part of the Soviet Union too but are absolved of all guilt because the Soviet Union is Russia isn't it?
Ergo: economy first with client base with lowest access cost. Dont stretch outside your means and power. Romans once did.
A powerful but relatively small navy is useful no matter what, and access to the worlds market that doesn't go through Europe or China is a benefit to Russia.
It is nordstream and south stream for trade... and western actions make it necessary rather than a luxury.
Look at how much trade they previously sent through Baltic ports to support former allies, when Russian ports could have and can do the job... why reward Europe with trade when they can do the same with countries that don't hate Russia?
Russian export to China will grow and including Hi-tech with India there are many projects due to made in India. Ka-226
You cannot send good via rail? Damn you should tell this to Chinese, Japanese or Koreans who want to use Russian railways for new Silk Road. BTW China wants to build rail to Africa BTW with branches to India/Myanmar/Vietnam/Malaysia/Thailand
Of course you can send by rail... there has been a planned rail through north korea to link to south korea so south korean goods can go via north korea through Russia to europe... but it still hasn't happened because the US said no.
Now what happens at the other end with rail lines going through the Ukraine and Poland to Europe... is it possible they might say no too?
Or impose enormous tariffs and make it non viable?
The purpose of sea trade is to bypass the political shit..
Perhaps in 50 years is true. But Russian export needs to develop export NOW. I can see a brilliant strategist thinking here changing more populated and much richer clients for "prospective" in 50 years. So you were the one talking about retardation?
Richer clients that will do everything they can to block trade with you... Africa has been dealing with these richer clients for several hundred years and yet they have not developed and are considered poor... what future has Africa HAD with these wonderful rich clients you keep trying to convince Russia to keep trading with?
These marvellous rich clients that are doing everything they can to overthrow governments and steal resources from any country including in the Middle East, but also including the Ukraine... I remember the shock and outrage at a war in Europe over the former Yugoslavian states... come the 21st century the US spends 5 billion and creates a civil war in the Ukraine and not only do the EU not give a shit... they blame Russia for it... and impose sanctions...
But you think Russia should keep selling them stuff and buying their stuff?
Syria, Tartus. Resupply station in Camp-Rham Vietnam. Russia could have worked on bases in Iran/Eritrea or Cuba but why? there is NO MONEY now. It is better to spent couple of billions on investing in competitive civilian products then CV. Especially large one
Not the job of the Russian Navy to invest in Russian designed TVs... it needs small compact forces that can operate on there own anywhere in the world with minimal support. When I say small I don't mean all Corvettes...
did you read your what you wrote?! with understanding Suspect Suspect Suspect
1) I agreed that small universal carriers like France or medium as UK built is OK (IMHO is definitely the road)
2) You say : no this is not the way Russia should go and sam time you're that US is not an example.
Yes, of course... I am demanding Russia make ten CVNs 100K tons each... right now dammit...
And WTF does a universal carrier mean?
It carries aircraft... it does not go into space... why does it need to be universal if you are suggesting they only need three?
Now focus. I know it might be hard for you but you need to try harder this time. Kuz size bad, Nimitz size bad, de Gaulle? crap.
Then what precisely you need?
Perhaps you need to focus... it does not matter at all what you or I WANT... the Russian NAVY have said they want something a little bigger than the Kuz.
Not a lot bigger like an American money maker that is making some US companies disgustingly rich, and not smaller like the Kiev class of obsolete rubbish.
Read Goldilocks and the three bears... they have said something slightly bigger than the Kuz is just right.
China is an ally in SCO and cooperation gets closer every year. I dont think Chinese would say no if Russia calls them for help. Especially that Chinese goodies go vie Northern Route...So if Chinese CSG is near what is the problem?
And what if, in return, they ask Russia to help defend all those artifical island in the South China sea... will Russia be able to say no?
MiG-29k doesnt have MiG-35 avionics. It has old avionics, perhaps there will be some updates but none has been announced yet.
The aircraft they are using is called MiG-29KR... but it has the avionics from the 1980s?
The MiG-29KR is the same shape and size as the MiG-35, so if they NEED to upgrade the the KR they can do it easily...
MiG have already said that the MiG-35 is carrier compatible.
no they wont. 50 years air frames are not going to be used anymore. Same as MiG-23 is not used today.
How the hell could the current MiG-29KRs have 50 year old airframes... they were made brand new in 2010...
Price of Su-33 was 1,7 price of Su-27 I take per analogy Su-57. LEts use low price so ~75mln$ unit. 24x1.7x75= 3 billions $.
If you take an estimate for 100mln per unit you have 4 billions per Kuz only.
But you are claiming that a STOVL 5th gen fighter can be developed from scratch and produced in numbers of less than 150 for less money... right!
IMHO Your misconception is that VSTOL is only for fleet. Not this is deck light fighter with VSTOL that can be used on land as well. Same as F-18 was. Vide Canada, Finland or Australia.
The whole Rafale ordered by French Navy + AF is 180 pieces for 30 years...
The F-18 and Rafale do not direct 20+ ton thrust jet engines directly downwards at the runway when they land... a STOVL aircraft DOES.
It could only operate on land as a long take off and long landing aircraft because it will have no way at all to land any other way without destroying runways.
As for destroying airstrips by STOL I am afraid that personal phobias dont count in real world
So what engine will be used? ...I noticed you conveniently dropped the V... so we are talking about Mig-35s and Su-57s again now are we...
Yak-141 was way better then AV8 and in fighter role not really worse then contemporaries.
Bullshit. It had a smaller radar than a MiG-29, plus shorter flight range... only four weapon pylons under the wings with no capacity for any ordinance or fuel tanks under the fuselage because of engine exhaust flows there... it was also rather slower, and less manouverable due to a rather small wing.
New VSTOL will have top notch tech and perhaps add much to fighter drone development.
And all that super tech you put in it to give it an edge over a normal fighter could also be fitted to the normal fighter much more cheaply to get a better aircraft.
BTW light fighters have 700-900 heavy 1200 but anyway it is too short to stop carriers of 1,600km US stealth CMs.
You don't get it do you...
The fighters are there to defend the ships from missile attack... it doesn't matter if the missiles have travelled 50km from a nearby island or 50,000km and been round the world 5 times... their purpose is to stop the missiles. Hunting down platforms that threaten Russian surface groups is a different job and will likely be done with long range very high speed missiles...
If it has nothing to do thats's why MiG-35 is on-hold?
Who said it was on hold?
Why would they order any at all let alone 6 if it was on hold?
Maybe all its technologies need to transition from the concept and design phase to the ready for mass production phase...
VSTOL is not MiG-35 replacement.
VSTOL is Yak getting success in the ear of the Boss... when it costs too much... is fragile and not battle ready... and has a high loss rate because of its flawed fundamental design and it gets canned they will just keep using MiG-35s and Su-57s for the job.
Even if it is a success, it will likely just operate along side Su-57s and MiG-35s... if the Yak-41 had been successful they would have probably had bought two dozen and they might have perhaps 6-7 left by now. They would only have bought more MiG-29KRs because the Indians paid for setting up production for it... O doubt they would have bought Yak-41s like the didn't buy Su-33s.
Yes they will be upgraded (Rafale F3R, USA F-18 Block III). Drone mode is the future of fighter, faster decisions, ability to use microwave weapons and more much tighter turns. This is just matter of AI and computing node processing power. With current level and billions spend yearly on AI by 2030 i am sure this will be possible.
So what are you talking about? The MiG-29KR and Su-33 are too old to upgrade but the ancient F-18 will be upgraded making it a wonderful super high tech future plane/drone/deathstar?
[qutoe]Nope this was stated by Supreme Commander + deputy PM for MIC and MOD by signing new programe. But Sluysar wants to sell MiG-35 of course. India perhaps? Egypt? Iran?
For Iran: this readily available, quantum leap in tech for them. Perhaps can build it locally... Oh man this would piss USrael.[/quote]
But Mr Expert... you just said it was obsolete money pit crap... the Jooz and the yanks will be overjoyed... probably just like they are overjoyed now because S-300 is rubbish and they can walk right through it... that was the whole point of spending trillions for the F-35 wasn't it?
F-18 had started retiring last year (legacy hornet) and is supposed to be retiring till 2030 (optimistically but this is the plan) . Rafale stays longer but only because new fighter will be in end of 2030s, beginning of 2040s.
Cool, so the MiG-35 can stay cause those stupid Yanks and Frogs wont have any fighters it seems for the 2030s....
Labor was cheaper in China, Japan? but in Sudan, Egypt or Cambodia had even cheaper than China and? Look at population China 1,3bln Japan 130mln (byt they had industrial traditions and had no army expenses)
When the west was abusing labour laws in Japan, china was not an option... you know.... they were commies. It wasn't until the americans started the enemy of my enemy is my friend shit that they could use cheap chinese labour without ethics or morals... and look at what they created... hahaha.
As for India Their GDP growth is for next 1o-15 years 8-9% i.e. more than Chinese. Their GDP makes then already 3rd worlds economy... Google says : $10.385 trillion (PPP; 2018 est)
Which just really shows what western economics indicators are really worth...
yes, it is doing now. But this is unrelated with size of air wing whatsoever.
Syria is the limit of its reach because Russia is otherwise largely land bound.
Hmm do you have double personality? Suspect Suspect Suspect just before you argue that only big CVN has meaning. Then you say no meaning but Zircons and Kinzhals. Then you write Su-57 wont cost then you say it will be expensive.
You don't understand because you think Russian carriers will be US carriers...
Big carriers are useful... little carriers are for has been countries that really should not bother with carriers at all.
For fighting against an enemy with carriers Zircons and Kinzhals will decide the fight... a Russian surface group without a carrier would be at a huge disadvantage because of lack of AWACS and situational awareness , but its hypersonic missiles will deal with any enemy ship that comes within range and it would have to be much more alert because it will likely get very little warning if it comes under attack.
Carrier based Su-57s will not be cheap, but you wont need a lot of them and the ships they will save make them worth the extra money.
Cheaper planes will cost you expensive ships that might cost battles.
Except the high loss rate and poor performance will mean the cheap planes will be value for money... pay peanuts and get monkeys or elephants...
3) AEW - this is explicitly stated 4 airplanes. (ДРЛО = AEW and not ДРЛОиУ = AEW&C)
Which makes it worse than useless.
[qutoe]I have hope that the 70kT design currently in the works, will for fill all these requirements, and more.
Then again, i could just be kidding myself.[/quote]
The alternative is a smaller carrier, but also more, which wont end up being any cheaper, but will certainly be much less effective.