GarryB wrote:Please... stop bullshitting... the MiG-29KRs are practically new aircraft that were made not long ago and the purpose for sending the Kuznetsov to Syria was to test the new upgrades on both types... Su-33 and MiG-29KR.
MiG-29K (Indian) was produced since 2005, Russian form 2012 but deign / avionics is older. The last refit of Su-33 is from 2010. in 10 years they will have almost 20 years without any update. BTW did you have any Syrian upgrade info? I have never heard about it.
The point is I dotn think thy will. Technically can shoot any obsolete fighter but this would mean IIIWWW.
And that is the point... when Russian carrier aircraft are shooting at F-35s then carrier aircraft will not be significant on either side.
great we agreed
cheers cheers cheers finally you agreed with me cheers cheers cheers presence here is a key , for the reat you got Boreys/Avangards/Poseidons and Tu-160/Tu22M
The problem is that US carriers are for invasions and sabre rattling, Russian carriers are to defend Russian surface vessels outside of Russian land based aircraft range... which means they will more likely be used regularly in the air intercept and CAP role... for which naval Su-57s are vastly more useful than some dinky little short range slow Yak-41 development.
OK now back to earth. Navalized Su-57 surely would be a potent machine. Huuge CVNs would be more potent. But now money talks. First ther ewas about Shtorm 100k tones, then Navy cannot imagine that CVN could be less then 70k. Now Krylov (the only one who placed Su-57k in plaseic ;-) presented 44k model of carrier. That's why it is better to have small cheaper 20-30 fighters CV then none.
Yak-141 concept 30 years old , not sure why you want to build old design? 30 years ago there were no avangards or poseidons. The new fighter will use definitely new tech/solutions. Same with performance.
Russian ships will have plenty of short range close in point defense weapons so there is no need for a short range point defence aircraft...
Pantsir has 800-900km radius?!
if not then fighters will be much better.
Then 1 Kuz is mostly not deloyed ...2 still 0,5 "forward deployment"
If the Soviets had matched the USN in carriers then all of those vessels would be not deployed and the cost would have bankrupted the Russians even more.
The fact is that the only value of the Kuz is experience, and will be for the next 10-15 years.
good we agree
In 10-15 years however, Russian foreign trade relations will have expanded to the point where she will find naval access to the world is financially necessary for them to grow... most trade moves by sea, so being able to control the sea, or at least allow your trade to move by sea anywhere you want it to is critical.
Russia will never control seas. You dont invest billions in fleet to trade with Cabo Verde. EU, China/India/Iran +SE Asia/large art of Africa can all be reached without or with minimal usage of high seas. And this market is more than enough to develop economy. If Russian military presence with small CV wont help then 1 very expensive carrier will make no difference either. I bet there will be in 20-30 years weapons of global reach available.
BTW how do you know they were not referring to laser guided bombs? There were comments in this regard, sadly don't have the source at hand.
My understanding of the talk of laser "weapons" on fighters regards an increase in power of DIRCMS so that instead of just dazzling an IR or EO sensor, that instead it actually damages the light sensitive elements and destroys the seekers... which would also have a rather negative effect on a pilot if directed at his visor too of course...
In US there are plns to use 50-100kW laser which is able to destroy AAD missile. So far I have read that Russians are focusing about burning all sensors/electronics. Using either lasers or microwaves.
Then I am happy we agree VSOL programme is on , su57 is not
Su-57 is definitely on... the question is if they will make a naval version or not.
My bad I meant 57k.
Yes its the Fregat.
Point is its a not exactly small VSTOL tiltrotor being depicted used on a LHD type ship.
wait, did you see any tiltrotor or chopper supersonic?
Me thinks MiG-35 is good fighter but there's no need to invest init now since new gen fighters will be much better in every respect and money is wiser to spend there.
Using that logic they will never put a new plane into service... because by the time it is ready then new technology means a brand new design that has not been designed yet could be much better so scrap it too...
The MiG-35 will be affordable enough to get into service in decent numbers, so it makes sense to make them as a useful base fighter, and then decide if new stealth aircraft could be made that are actually stealthy or if new radar designs render them expensive wastes of time so better shaped aircraft can be used instead.
Then what is the reason Russia stopped procuring of MiG-35 and started developing new VSTOL fighter instead?
Using your logic USA should stick to F-5. Iran is still using ti with new avionics. They need to replace many fighters thet are goring ot be obsolete/by end of lifecycle in couple of years. They need not only new replacement but affordable.