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    Future russian aircraft carriers. #1

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    Post  Flyingdutchman on Wed Jul 22, 2015 9:07 pm

    jhelb wrote:
    GarryB wrote:
    the whole point of a carrier is to extend vision and reach so it will have AWACS and it will have very large sensor arrays that smaller vessels wont be able to accommodate. the Carrier will also form the centre of the battle group... coordinating operations in defence and attack...

    Is there any possibility of a Russian Electromagnetic Aircraft Launch System (EMALS) in future Russian carriers?

    Yes they probably will i believe.
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    Post  PapaDragon on Wed Jul 22, 2015 10:00 pm

    Why don't Russia and India simply build aircraft carriers together?

    India could build hulls while Russia handles everything else. Seems lot faster and cheaper...
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    Post  flamming_python on Wed Jul 22, 2015 11:08 pm

    PapaDragon wrote:Why don't Russia and India simply build aircraft carriers together?

    India could build hulls while Russia handles everything else. Seems lot faster and cheaper...

    Different requirements
    Russia won't trust Indian shipyards' production quality
    Security/schematic leaks/technology sharing concerns (even between countries with great relations, such concerns still exist)
    Lobbying of domestic enterprises and shipyards to get all the work instead
    And so on..
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    Post  jhelb on Thu Jul 23, 2015 10:30 am

    PapaDragon wrote:Why don't Russia and India simply build aircraft carriers together?

    India could build hulls while Russia handles everything else. Seems lot faster and cheaper...

    Russia is helping India design their second aircraft carrier, IAC 2.

    Joint development means both sides will have to bring something to the table. However, India does not have any technological edge. They use old, refurbished Soviet and British carriers and are dependent on Russia & the west for the development of future carriers.

    Moreover their shipyards, defense companies lack the work ethic that is prevalent in Russia. Most of their own naval projects are running 10-15 yrs behind schedule and in the process the cost of development goes up by over 100%.
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    Post  George1 on Thu Jul 23, 2015 10:32 am

    jhelb wrote:
    PapaDragon wrote:Why don't Russia and India simply build aircraft carriers together?

    India could build hulls while Russia handles everything else. Seems lot faster and cheaper...

    Russia is helping India design their second aircraft carrier, IAC 2.

    Joint development means both sides will have to bring something to the table. However, India does not have any technological edge. They use old, refurbished Soviet and British carriers and are dependent on Russia & the west for the development of future carriers.

    Moreover their shipyards, defense companies lack the work ethic that is prevalent in Russia. Most of their own naval projects are running 10-15 yrs behind schedule and in the process the cost of development goes up by over 100%.

    IAC 2 will be only India's aircraft carrier however not Russia's
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    Post  GarryB on Thu Jul 23, 2015 1:51 pm

    Is there any possibility of a Russian Electromagnetic Aircraft Launch System (EMALS) in future Russian carriers?

    Almost certainly, to allow heavy aircraft like AWACS operate.

    Why don't Russia and India simply build aircraft carriers together?

    India could build hulls while Russia handles everything else. Seems lot faster and cheaper...

    They likely want different ships with different performance... besides if the Russians want nuke powered carriers it makes more sense to built the hulls closer to where the nuke power plants are made...

    Besides I think the Russian ship builders would like to keep making ship hulls too.

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    Post  2SPOOKY4U on Fri Jul 24, 2015 12:46 am

    Everyone slow down,

    The Russian A/C will definitely not be "just" an A/C.

    I would look to recent statements by Russian officials stating that the future of ASAT is air-launched...

    Remember, Russia needs an aircraft carrier that is both viable in tactical and strategic conflicts against world-level powers.
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    Post  Hachimoto on Mon Aug 10, 2015 9:14 pm

    So it will be a nuclear propultion one seems logical :

    http://fr.sputniknews.com/defense/20150810/1017452132.html#ixzz3iPlC0bdF
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    Post  Project Canada on Tue Aug 11, 2015 4:33 am

    Hachimoto wrote:So it will be a nuclear propultion one seems logical :

    http://fr.sputniknews.com/defense/20150810/1017452132.html#ixzz3iPlC0bdF

    Russia’s future aircraft carrier will be nuclear-powered — shipbuilder

    http://tass.ru/en/russia/813442
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    Post  Morpheus Eberhardt on Wed Aug 12, 2015 2:30 pm

    http://paralay.com/stat/atakr_options.pdf
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    Post  Guest on Thu Sep 03, 2015 8:37 am

    jhelb wrote:
    GarryB wrote:
    the whole point of a carrier is to extend vision and reach so it will have AWACS and it will have very large sensor arrays that smaller vessels wont be able to accommodate. the Carrier will also form the centre of the battle group... coordinating operations in defence and attack...

    Is there any possibility of a Russian Electromagnetic Aircraft Launch System (EMALS) in future Russian carriers?

    "As Russia began to develop electromagnetic catapults for aircraft carriers. On this, as reported by ITAR -TASS, said CEO Nevsky Design Bureau Sergey Vlasov . According to him , the name of " an organization that is engaged in the creation of an electromagnetic catapult ", while not disclosed.

    Exactly how much time it will take to complete the project electromagnetic aircraft launcher is difficult to say . "The problem is that Americans have worked on this for over ten years . They are his first electromagnetic catapult only in 2016 will be installed on new aircraft carrier " Gerald Ford " », ─ Vlasov said , noting that such a trigger will allow some to simplify the design of the ship due to failure , for example, the nuclear installation .

    Most likely, the Russian electromagnetic catapult test will be carried out on one of the ground-based simulators in Eyske deck aircraft or in the Crimea. Electromagnetic catapult is a linear induction motor , which by means of a special truck allows you to overclock the aircraft to lift-off speed . In the USSR, such developments were not conducted .

    Currently, the U.S. is the only country in the world, having a working prototype of an electromagnetic catapult. She wears EMALS designation and will be installed on promising American carriers such as " Gerald Ford ." It is believed that China has also experienced an electromagnetic catapult , but its existence is not officially confirmed."
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    Post  George1 on Thu Sep 17, 2015 1:47 am

    Aircraft carrier electromagnetic catapult in development in Russia

    The catapult needs no big steam boilers and is powered by a battery

    MOSCOW, September 16. /TASS/. Russia has started developing an electromagnetic catapult for new-generation aircraft carriers, a defense industry source told TASS on Wednesday.

    "The electromagnetic catapult development is under way, and a mockup has been made," the source said.

    According to the source, the prototype of the advanced catapult has been brought to the Central Aerohydrodynamic Institute. The catapult needs no big steam boilers and is powered by a battery.

    As is known, the United States is working on an electromagnetic catapult too. The Electromagnetic Aircraft Launch System (EMALS) is essentially a linear induction motor with a number of coils generating a travelling magnetic field. The magnetic field accelerates the object. The EMALS has a 100,000-hp (73.5MW) motor affording the catapult-launched manned and unmanned aircraft a takeoff speed of 333 km/h. Electromagnetic technologies offer a sizeable reduction in the catapult’s maintenance cost, an increase in its reliability and effectiveness, much higher launch power and more accurate control of the aircraft’s final acceleration speed during takeoff. In addition, the electromagnetic catapult allows smoother acceleration and less stress on the aircraft.

    The EMALS is designed to equip advanced heavy nuclear-powered aircraft carriers in the CVN-79 Gerald R. Ford class.
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    Post  Cyrus the great on Mon Nov 23, 2015 1:06 am

    So if Russia does opt to put a S-500 Triumfator M on an aircraft carrier like the Shtorm supercarrier, how many jets would it likely be able to hold?
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    Post  Guest on Mon Nov 23, 2015 1:24 am

    Cyrus the great wrote:So if Russia does opt to put a S-500 Triumfator M on an aircraft carrier like the Shtorm supercarrier, how many jets would it likely be able to hold?

    Hard question, Project 23000E is supposed to be between 90 and 100.000t in displacement (all we have is model and rumons however), which would make it comparable to Gerald R. Ford-class which holds 75 in normal loads, probably could go up to 90 if required. So that gives some broad idea, if some ABM is to be placed on it, then you can reduce number by 10ish. But more realistic scenario is that Russians will build carrier 60-80.000t with 40-50 aircraft cappacity.
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    Post  Cyrus the great on Mon Nov 23, 2015 1:56 am


    Militarov wrote:
    Hard question, Project 23000E is supposed to be between 90 and 100.000t in displacement (all we have is model and rumons however), which would make it comparable to Gerald R. Ford-class which holds 75 in normal loads, probably could go up to 90 if required. So that gives some broad idea, if some ABM is to be placed on it, then you can reduce number by 10ish. But more realistic scenario is that Russians will build carrier 60-80.000t with 40-50 aircraft cappacity.

    Thanks, mate. Placing the S-500 Triumfator M onto any supercarrier would significantly increase its effectiveness and capacity to protect itself from Nations of military significance, even if it came at the loss of up to a dozen aircraft. I'm just surprised the Americans haven't put the RIM-161 Standard Missile 3 onto their supercarriers.
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    Post  sepheronx on Mon Nov 23, 2015 2:04 am

    Militarov wrote:
    Cyrus the great wrote:So if Russia does opt to put a S-500 Triumfator M on an aircraft carrier like the Shtorm supercarrier, how many jets would it likely be able to hold?

    Hard question, Project 23000E is supposed to be between 90 and 100.000t in displacement (all we have is model and rumons however), which would make it comparable to Gerald R. Ford-class which holds 75 in normal loads, probably could go up to 90 if required. So that gives some broad idea, if some ABM is to be placed on it, then you can reduce number by 10ish. But more realistic scenario is that Russians will build carrier 60-80.000t with 40-50 aircraft cappacity.

    I don't imagine Russian carriers will hold that many aircrafts. Maybe about as many as Kuznetsov now can. I cant see them going for bigger (as you pointed out before, they don't have the capabilities for such sized ships).
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    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Mon Nov 23, 2015 2:24 am

    sepheronx wrote: I don't imagine Russian carriers will hold that many aircrafts.  Maybe about as many as Kuznetsov now can.  I cant see them going for bigger (as you pointed out before, they don't have the capabilities for such sized ships).

    Never say never. Couple years ago building 15kt ship was just an imagination now is is confirmed destroyer. If there is a need Russia will build capabilities.


    Cyrus the great wrote: Thanks, mate. Placing the S-500 Triumfator M onto any supercarrier would significantly increase its effectiveness and capacity to protect itself from Nations of military significance, even if it came at the loss of up to a dozen aircraft. I'm just surprised the Americans haven't put the RIM-161 Standard Missile 3 onto their supercarriers.

    If you fight with sheep herders in Afghanistan or countries like Iraq/Libya this is feature not really needed.
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    Post  Guest on Mon Nov 23, 2015 2:37 am

    sepheronx wrote:
    Militarov wrote:
    Cyrus the great wrote:So if Russia does opt to put a S-500 Triumfator M on an aircraft carrier like the Shtorm supercarrier, how many jets would it likely be able to hold?

    Hard question, Project 23000E is supposed to be between 90 and 100.000t in displacement (all we have is model and rumons however), which would make it comparable to Gerald R. Ford-class which holds 75 in normal loads, probably could go up to 90 if required. So that gives some broad idea, if some ABM is to be placed on it, then you can reduce number by 10ish. But more realistic scenario is that Russians will build carrier 60-80.000t with 40-50 aircraft cappacity.

    I don't imagine Russian carriers will hold that many aircrafts.  Maybe about as many as Kuznetsov now can.  I cant see them going for bigger (as you pointed out before, they don't have the capabilities for such sized ships).

    We will see what happens in future, for now they cant, things can change post 2020. Kuznetsov can hold 40ish+ air wing (both helicopters and fighters) so i assume with increased size the airwing will grow too on future carrier, i dont expect less than 36-48 fixed wing aircraft tbh.
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    Post  PapaDragon on Mon Nov 23, 2015 3:28 am


    Kuznetsov sized ship with nuclear propulsion and more efficiently arranged space would easily have capacity for 10 more aircraft. And that is more than enough for RU Navy. There are also service costs to think about.

    Three medium sized cheap ones are lot better than one big expensive carrier. Even US Navy is going down that route...
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    Post  Big_Gazza on Mon Nov 23, 2015 3:28 pm

    PapaDragon wrote:
    Kuznetsov sized ship with nuclear propulsion and more efficiently arranged space would easily have capacity for 10 more aircraft. And that is more than enough for RU Navy. There are also service costs to think about.

    Three medium sized cheap ones are lot better than one big expensive carrier. Even US Navy is going down that route...

    plus, having a larger number of smaller carriers means that you are at less risk of losing your capabilities if a few AShM penetrate your area defenses and get past your CIWS...
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    Post  GarryB on Tue Nov 24, 2015 10:16 am

    More importantly a modern carrier goes through three phases... operational, in training, and in refit/maintainence/upgrade.

    When operational it is of course ready and if it is in training it can be ready very quickly but if it is in pieces at a ship yard getting a serious upgrade or refit it is not ready for business.

    That is why the UK and France have been in talks of mutual cooperation because they both plan to be cheap bastards and have one carrier... so they are agreeing that if one has their carrier on the slips that the other will keep their carrier at sea until it is ready and vice versa so together they can guarantee they will have a carrier ready if needed.

    Of course it makes rather more sense just to have three carriers which means unless one is damaged that you should be able to mobilise at least two ships in an emergency and possibly all three if its maintainence is minor.
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    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Tue Nov 24, 2015 12:59 pm

    GarryB wrote:More importantly a modern carrier goes through three phases... operational, in training, and in refit/maintainence/upgrade.

    When operational it is of course ready and if it is in training it can be ready very quickly but if it is in pieces at a ship yard getting a serious upgrade or refit it is not ready for business.

    That is why the UK and France have been in talks of mutual cooperation because they both plan to be cheap bastards and have one carrier... so they are agreeing that if one has their carrier on the slips that the other will keep their carrier at sea until it is ready and vice versa so together they can guarantee they will have a carrier ready if needed.

    Of course it makes rather more sense just to have three carriers which means unless one is damaged that you should be able to mobilise at least two ships in an emergency and possibly all three if its maintainence is minor.

    There is also a "Russian flavor" in building A/C - western A/C generally "gunships" against colonies or countries to be colonized not equally equipped opponent. Logistics: western countries have much better logistics in countries which were forced or have deals with NATO totalitarian regimes.

    Russian A/C is likely to fight opponent with more ships and fighters and likely with smaller escort group not ot mention sparse logistical base. That´s why Russian A/C needs nuclear power plant, solid AAD and e closer to rocket cruiser with air wing that classic A/C western type.



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    Post  George1 on Sat Jan 16, 2016 7:02 pm

    Russia Moves Closer to Building New Aircraft Carrier

    After decades-long efforts to restore its shipbuilding industry following the collapse of the Soviet Union, Russia finally seems to have obtained serious capabilities.

    As soon as 2019, Moscow will be able to build aircraft carriers and amphibious helicopter carriers at domestic shipyards, military analyst Dave Majumdar wrote in his article for The National Interest.

    Currently, Russia has only one aircraft carrier in service – the Admiral Kuznetsov. It was built in the Ukrainian SSR, at the Nikolayev shipyards. After the USSR collapsed in 1991, Russia lost access to the facilities which built all Soviet aircraft carriers. As a result, Moscow was forced to create its own aircraft carrier industrial base.

    "We’ll be ready to begin construction of helicopter carriers as well as aircraft carriers," Alexey Rakhmanov, president of Russia’s United Shipbuilding Corporation (USC), recently told Rossiya 24 new channel.

    "If you take up the technological capability for building aircraft carriers, we hope to acquire it by the beginning of 2019 as long as modernization works are completed," he added.

    Rakhmanov did not reveal details regarding where Russia would build its new aircraft carriers. But Moscow’s next generation flattop is likely to be built at Sevmash Shipyards, in Severodvinsk. It is the only facility to have recent aircraft carrier building experience. It refurbished and modified the Admiral Gorshkov aircraft carrier into the Vikramaditya for the Indian Navy.

    "Previous reports had suggested that Russia was preparing to start building its first post-Soviet era carrier in 2025, at the earliest. It would also take roughly ten years to build the massive warship," the author wrote.

    While the new Russian flattop is a decade away, in 2015 the Krylov State Research Center and Nevskoye Planning and Design Bureau showed off a model of a prospective 100,000-ton displacement aircraft carrier, designated as Project 23000E Shtorm. The massive aircraft could carry as many as 90 aircraft.

    Russia has also been preparing the groundwork for the new aircraft carrier, the article read. For instance, Russia has started work on an electromagnetic catapult launch system.

    In addition, Moscow hopes to build new amphibious assault ships to replace the two French-made Mistral-class ships. They had been ordered from France, but later due to anti-Russian sanctions and rising tensions between Moscow and the West over the Ukrainian crisis the contract was cancelled.

    "It’s not clear when or even if Russia is proceeding with the project, but available information suggests Moscow is interested in a vessel capable of hosting a dozen helicopters and 450 naval infantrymen. The ship could have a displacement of roughly 16,000 tons," Majumdar wrote.

    Read more: http://sputniknews.com/military/20160116/1033234012/russia-aircraft-carrier.html#ixzz3xQKncrwu
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    Post  Mig-31BM2 Super Irbis-E on Tue Feb 02, 2016 10:13 pm

    Better a carrier in the class of Charles de Gaulle. Four of these ships. With the support group already pretty expensive.

    When aircraft 24 Jak-133IB, 4 Yak-133PP and 24 new MiG-35D in the K version (no old SMT) as a two-seater.

    In are the costs of 4x 2 billion euros with training, maintenance and others.
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    Post  GarryB on Wed Feb 03, 2016 6:31 am

    With two seater MiG-29K (MiG-29M2) there is little need for the Yaks... the MiGs can be used as trainers and also as light strike aircraft... instead of 24 MiGs and 28 Yaks... why not 50 MiGs?

    Of course adding EM based cats means a few AWACS type aircraft should be added, plus a couple of transports and inflight refuelling tankers would be useful too.

    they could adapt the aircraft so they can be used as a transport or a tanker depending on the mission requirements...

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