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    Russian Navy: Status and News #5

    Mir
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    Post  Mir Thu Dec 30, 2021 9:30 am

    I think the Tuman was considered as an export version (Korsar?) but it is probably destined for the scrapyard. cry

    At least they can use the metal for one of the Gorshkovs.
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    Post  ALAMO Thu Dec 30, 2021 9:35 am

    They just keep it sitting there on the water for the last 25 years or so. Tons of times there were statements, that it will be scrapped - still survived.
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    Post  Mir Thu Dec 30, 2021 10:05 am

    Yes and what was to become the Borodino training ship shares the same fate. Some more metal that they could use for better things! Laughing
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    Post  Rodion_Romanovic Fri Dec 31, 2021 6:57 pm

    ALAMO wrote:It was very sad seeing the two remaining hulls just rusting at the Jantar for ages.
    Luckily, Murdyj has been finished, still, the Tuman hull is sitting just there. Easy to spot from Petrozawodska St.
    I thought it was already been announced since a couple of years that tuman will not be completed...
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    Post  ALAMO Fri Dec 31, 2021 7:44 pm

    Years ago, and by the yard director.
    Finishing it would make sense in the 00s, now it is an old hulk only.
    Still, sad.
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    Post  PapaDragon Sun Jan 02, 2022 5:13 am


    Russian Navy is finally getting back into shape

    Magical formula from now on is Yasen+Gorshkov+Lada in maximum possible numbers

    Everything else is coming or already came into it's groove

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    Isos
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    Post  Isos Sun Jan 02, 2022 12:35 pm

    PapaDragon wrote:
    Russian Navy is finally getting back into shape

    Magical formula from now on is Yasen+Gorshkov+Lada in maximum possible numbers

    Everything else is coming or already came into it's groove

    Lada is a failed class from the 90s. They need to design a new SSK that is better suited to carry modern hardware like AIP (if they want it), UKSK (a VLS with even 4 cells would be good), underwater Paket torpedo system that is being designed for new SSN, spherical sonar...

    Lada design is already 30 years old.
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    Post  Mir Sun Jan 02, 2022 2:25 pm

    Isos wrote:
    Lada is a failed class from the 90s. They need to design a new SSK that is better suited to carry modern hardware like AIP (if they want it), UKSK (a VLS with even 4 cells would be good), underwater Paket torpedo system that is being designed for new SSN, spherical sonar...

    Lada design is already 30 years old.

    I wouldn't exactly call it a failure despite the huge hick-up with the first sample. All of them are destined for the Northern Fleet which is an indication that they are pretty good subs. However the Lada can be considered as an interim design between the Kilo and the Kalina project.

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    Isos
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    Post  Isos Sun Jan 02, 2022 2:45 pm

    Mir wrote:
    Isos wrote:
    Lada is a failed class from the 90s. They need to design a new SSK that is better suited to carry modern hardware like AIP (if they want it), UKSK (a VLS with even 4 cells would be good), underwater Paket torpedo system that is being designed for new SSN, spherical sonar...

    Lada design is already 30 years old.

    I wouldn't exactly call it a failure despite the huge hick-up with the first sample. All of them are destined for the Northern Fleet which is an indication that they are pretty good subs. However the Lada can be considered as an interim design between the Kilo and the Kalina project.

    It's a good ship but the class and project is a failure because of USSR destruction and the crisis in the 90s.

    It's a 30 years old project just like Yasen and Borei. Both were upgraded to a more modern standard but even the first ship got modern stuff as they were only partially started in the 90s.

    That first lada was build long time ago. Building more if it would be stupid since they can make a much better class.

    Lada isn't an interim class. Improved kilo is. Improved kilo was build so that they can have a modern sub until thry buikd a new Kalina which is something they should do and not order any more Lada (even if it is good sub).
    Mir
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    Post  Mir Sun Jan 02, 2022 3:15 pm


    It's a good ship but the class and project is a failure because of USSR destruction and the crisis in the 90s.

    It's a 30 years old project just like Yasen and Borei. Both were upgraded to a more modern standard but even the first ship got modern stuff as they were only partially started in the 90s.

    That first lada was build long time ago. Building more if it would be stupid since they can make a much better class.

    Lada isn't an interim class. Improved kilo is. Improved kilo was build so that they can have a modern sub until thry buikd a new Kalina which is something they should do and not order any more Lada (even if it is good sub).

    You may find it surprising that the Lada design is actually the "youngest" of all the classes you've just mentioned above!

    The first Yasen was laid down at the end of 1993, the first Borey in 1996 as well as the very first Improved Kilo - also in 1996.
    The first Lada was only laid down in December 1997! Smile  

    I do believe that they will not build too many Ladas before switching to the Kalina.
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    Post  PapaDragon Sun Jan 02, 2022 3:21 pm

    Isos wrote:...Lada is a failed class from the 90s. They need to design a new SSK that is better suited to carry modern hardware like AIP (if they want it), UKSK (a VLS with even 4 cells would be good), underwater Paket torpedo system that is being designed for new SSN, spherical sonar...

    Lada design is already 30 years old.

    Original planned Lada and current one are not the same thing (they should have changed the name TBH)

    Prototype has been delivered, second one is undergoing trials and 4 more are in the pipeline (and that's just first batch) all for North Fleet and North Fleet only gets the top shelf stuff

    If Lada had any shortcomings it wouldn't have gotten anywhere near North Fleet and would have been dumped in the Baltic after one or two hulls

    Also AIP is a dead end, everyone is going for diesel+lithium batteries now just like Japan

    Navy went on record that Lada is orders of magnitude superior to Kilos, it's officially the next big thing



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    Post  Hole Sun Jan 02, 2022 7:47 pm

    The only thing aboard a ship/sub that can be "old" is the electronics and that stuff can be changed. The 2nd Lada has propably a computer for it´s sonar that is a magnitude faster then the one in the first sub.
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    Post  Isos Sun Jan 02, 2022 8:11 pm

    Hole wrote:The only thing aboard a ship/sub that can be "old" is the electronics and that stuff can be changed. The 2nd Lada has propably a computer for it´s sonar that is a magnitude faster then the one in the first sub.

    The overall design can be "old".

    A modern SSK can be build with uksk in mind and some new technologies that would be hard to implement in older designs.
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    Post  Big_Gazza Mon Jan 03, 2022 2:37 am

    Isos wrote:
    The overall design can be "old".
    The basic configuration of submarines hasn't changed in over 100 years, so any design can be considered as "old", or more accurately, of a conventional arrangement.
    Isos
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    Post  Isos Mon Jan 03, 2022 2:43 am

    Big_Gazza wrote:
    Isos wrote:
    The overall design can be "old".
    The basic configuration of submarines hasn't changed in over 100 years, so any design can be considered as "old", or more accurately, of a conventional arrangement.

    Well now you have VLS, AIP and even small nuclear power plants that can be added to a SSK so the design can be much better than the one of a kilo or lada.

    Specially for russian subs since Russia has such technologies contrary to other SSK producers which keep the older arrangement (diesel engine, batteries, command room, torpedo rrom).
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Mon Jan 03, 2022 5:15 am

    Lada is a failed class from the 90s.

    Not failed at all... in fact it has taken them this long to get it right.

    It is a much better improved Kilo that is smaller and lighter and quieter and has half the crew size with better armament and systems.


    Lada isn't an interim class. Improved kilo is. Improved kilo was build so that they can have a modern sub until thry buikd a new Kalina which is something they should do and not order any more Lada (even if it is good sub).

    Lada is a generation ahead of the Improved Kilos, and is significantly better and it would be the height of stupidity to cancel it now and start on a brand new design that might take 30 years to get working properly and into serial production.

    Ladas are ready for production now and I would expect they are also ready with Lithium Ion batteries which will achieve performance levels previously unseen in Soviet or Russian conventional submarines before.

    The overall design can be "old".

    Like the F-15?

    Being new hasn't really saved the F-35 and the Kalina is no where near the prototype stage AFAIK, so cancelling the Lada for something that is no where near prototype stage let alone serial production is just saying Russia wont have any new SSKs for the next 10-15 years.

    The western term would be throwing the baby out with the bath water.

    In European terms it would be the difference between the 1,600 Tiger I tanks that Germany produced compared with the 20,000 Panzers they could have made instead that would have been vastly more useful and effective at the time...

    A modern SSK can be build with uksk in mind and some new technologies that would be hard to implement in older designs.

    Lada class subs can have UKSK launch tubes...


    Well now you have VLS, AIP and even small nuclear power plants that can be added to a SSK so the design can be much better than the one of a kilo or lada.

    Lada has VLS options, and the worlds leading proponent of AIP for SSKs was Japan whose experience shows for the weight and space AIPs add to a submarine it is actually more efficient to just remove the AIP and just have more Li Ion batteries.

    AIPs are too weak for the sub to be very useful while charging the batteries, so when charging, the sub is essentially immobile and useless and it takes much much longer to charge the batteries than a diesel powered sub.

    Japan had an AIP equipped SSK and has replaced it with an SSK with no AIP and just more batteries.

    Cancelling the Lada now would be like cancelling the Armata tank because its design started in the 1990s and they could probably do better if they design it from scratch now.

    If they did there would be no new tank for a decade or two...
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    Post  JohninMK Sun Jan 23, 2022 10:32 pm

    Can't see a Russian Navy exercises thread so putting this here

    This is part of a post I put up at this link that I thought belonged here too.

    https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/russia-to-hold-live-fire-naval-exercise-off-coast-of-ireland/#comment-609490

    Meanwhile at sea the Russian MoD announced 3 days ago that exercises will take place in the Mediterranean, the North Sea, the Sea of Okhotsk, the northeast Atlantic Ocean and the Pacific. They will draw on 140 warships and support vessels, 60 planes, 1,000 units of military hardware and around 10,000 servicemen.

    The Pacific Fleet’s Varyag missile cruiser, Admiral Tributs large anti-submarine ship, and Boris Butoma tanker, currently in another exercise in the Gulf of Oman, will be heading west either to the Med or the Atlantic.

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    Post  Krepost Sun Jan 23, 2022 10:37 pm

    Just to illustrate the above post:
    Varyag and Admiral Tributs in the Gulf of Oman.
    Russian Navy: Status and News #5 - Page 38 23-10411

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    Post  JohninMK Sun Jan 23, 2022 11:14 pm

    I can't wait for the howls in the UK press when the North Sea exercise takes place.

    Hopefully a few Tu-142M in the air.

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    Post  Krepost Yesterday at 1:53 am

    Mods,
    I am posting this here. If there is a more relevant thread, please move it.

    A series of exercises will be held in the areas of responsibility of all fleets of the Russian Navy
    In accordance with the training plan for the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation for 2022, a series of exercises will be held in January-February in the areas of responsibility of all fleets of the Russian Navy. Combat training activities will be carried out under the general supervision of the Commander-in-Chief of the Navy, Admiral Nikolai Evmenov.

    The main focus of the exercises is to work out the actions of the forces of the Navy and Aerospace Forces to protect Russian national interests in the World Ocean, as well as to counter military threats to the Russian Federation from sea and ocean directions.

    The exercises will cover the waters of the seas adjacent to Russian territory, as well as operationally important areas of the World Ocean. Separate exercises will take place in the Mediterranean, North, Okhotsk Seas, in the northeastern part of the Atlantic Ocean and in the Pacific Ocean.

    In total, it is planned to involve over 140 warships and support vessels, more than 60 aircraft, 1,000 units of military equipment, and about 10,000 servicemen to participate in the events.

    Official Source: https://function.mil.ru/news_page/country/more.htm?id=12404469@egNews

    French Navy confirms landing ships Korolev, Minsk and Kaliningrad are now in the Bay of Biscay:

    Source:
    https://twitter.com/hashtag/AtlantiqueNord?src=hashtag_click

    I have no confirmation for following:
    Russian Navy: Status and News #5 - Page 38 FJyitEXXoAIQ2gn?format=jpg&name=large
    Russian Navy: Status and News #5 - Page 38 FJyDGmgWUAAh9zo?format=jpg&name=large

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    Post  limb Yesterday at 8:53 am

    Isos wrote:
    Big_Gazza wrote:
    Isos wrote:
    The overall design can be "old".
    The basic configuration of submarines hasn't changed in over 100 years, so any design can be considered as "old", or more accurately, of a conventional arrangement.

    Well now you have VLS, AIP and even small nuclear power plants that can be added to a SSK so the design can be much better than the one of a kilo or lada.

    Specially for russian subs since Russia has such technologies contrary to other SSK producers which keep the older arrangement (diesel engine, batteries, command room, torpedo rrom).
    I think a sterling engine would still work. Perhaps it could be heated by the radioactive decay of strontium isotopes which would create a huge temperature differential compared to arctic seawater, thus allowing for essentially unlimited range.
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    Post  Hole Yesterday at 1:23 pm

    JohninMK wrote:I can't wait for the howls in the UK press when the North Sea exercise takes place.

    Hopefully a few Tu-142M in the air.

    No Tu-160M! Some presstitutes will get a stroke instantly. Laughing
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    Post  GarryB Today at 5:25 am

    I think a sterling engine would still work. Perhaps it could be heated by the radioactive decay of strontium isotopes which would create a huge temperature differential compared to arctic seawater, thus allowing for essentially unlimited range.

    If you are using nuclear materials anyway why not just use a nuclear reactor to generate power?
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    Post  lancelot Today at 5:36 am

    Strontium-90? Yeah that would be real safe. Not.
    Those kinds of devices have low power density and Strontium-90 is seriously unsafe.
    You would be better off using an actual nuclear reactor.

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