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    Russian Navy: Status and News #5

    Isos
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    Post  Isos Sun Jan 02, 2022 8:11 pm

    Hole wrote:The only thing aboard a ship/sub that can be "old" is the electronics and that stuff can be changed. The 2nd Lada has propably a computer for it´s sonar that is a magnitude faster then the one in the first sub.

    The overall design can be "old".

    A modern SSK can be build with uksk in mind and some new technologies that would be hard to implement in older designs.
    Big_Gazza
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    Post  Big_Gazza Mon Jan 03, 2022 2:37 am

    Isos wrote:
    The overall design can be "old".
    The basic configuration of submarines hasn't changed in over 100 years, so any design can be considered as "old", or more accurately, of a conventional arrangement.
    Isos
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    Post  Isos Mon Jan 03, 2022 2:43 am

    Big_Gazza wrote:
    Isos wrote:
    The overall design can be "old".
    The basic configuration of submarines hasn't changed in over 100 years, so any design can be considered as "old", or more accurately, of a conventional arrangement.

    Well now you have VLS, AIP and even small nuclear power plants that can be added to a SSK so the design can be much better than the one of a kilo or lada.

    Specially for russian subs since Russia has such technologies contrary to other SSK producers which keep the older arrangement (diesel engine, batteries, command room, torpedo rrom).
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Mon Jan 03, 2022 5:15 am

    Lada is a failed class from the 90s.

    Not failed at all... in fact it has taken them this long to get it right.

    It is a much better improved Kilo that is smaller and lighter and quieter and has half the crew size with better armament and systems.


    Lada isn't an interim class. Improved kilo is. Improved kilo was build so that they can have a modern sub until thry buikd a new Kalina which is something they should do and not order any more Lada (even if it is good sub).

    Lada is a generation ahead of the Improved Kilos, and is significantly better and it would be the height of stupidity to cancel it now and start on a brand new design that might take 30 years to get working properly and into serial production.

    Ladas are ready for production now and I would expect they are also ready with Lithium Ion batteries which will achieve performance levels previously unseen in Soviet or Russian conventional submarines before.

    The overall design can be "old".

    Like the F-15?

    Being new hasn't really saved the F-35 and the Kalina is no where near the prototype stage AFAIK, so cancelling the Lada for something that is no where near prototype stage let alone serial production is just saying Russia wont have any new SSKs for the next 10-15 years.

    The western term would be throwing the baby out with the bath water.

    In European terms it would be the difference between the 1,600 Tiger I tanks that Germany produced compared with the 20,000 Panzers they could have made instead that would have been vastly more useful and effective at the time...

    A modern SSK can be build with uksk in mind and some new technologies that would be hard to implement in older designs.

    Lada class subs can have UKSK launch tubes...


    Well now you have VLS, AIP and even small nuclear power plants that can be added to a SSK so the design can be much better than the one of a kilo or lada.

    Lada has VLS options, and the worlds leading proponent of AIP for SSKs was Japan whose experience shows for the weight and space AIPs add to a submarine it is actually more efficient to just remove the AIP and just have more Li Ion batteries.

    AIPs are too weak for the sub to be very useful while charging the batteries, so when charging, the sub is essentially immobile and useless and it takes much much longer to charge the batteries than a diesel powered sub.

    Japan had an AIP equipped SSK and has replaced it with an SSK with no AIP and just more batteries.

    Cancelling the Lada now would be like cancelling the Armata tank because its design started in the 1990s and they could probably do better if they design it from scratch now.

    If they did there would be no new tank for a decade or two...
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    Post  JohninMK Sun Jan 23, 2022 10:32 pm

    Can't see a Russian Navy exercises thread so putting this here

    This is part of a post I put up at this link that I thought belonged here too.

    https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/russia-to-hold-live-fire-naval-exercise-off-coast-of-ireland/#comment-609490

    Meanwhile at sea the Russian MoD announced 3 days ago that exercises will take place in the Mediterranean, the North Sea, the Sea of Okhotsk, the northeast Atlantic Ocean and the Pacific. They will draw on 140 warships and support vessels, 60 planes, 1,000 units of military hardware and around 10,000 servicemen.

    The Pacific Fleet’s Varyag missile cruiser, Admiral Tributs large anti-submarine ship, and Boris Butoma tanker, currently in another exercise in the Gulf of Oman, will be heading west either to the Med or the Atlantic.

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    Post  Krepost Sun Jan 23, 2022 10:37 pm

    Just to illustrate the above post:
    Varyag and Admiral Tributs in the Gulf of Oman.
    Russian Navy: Status and News #5 - Page 38 23-10411

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    Post  JohninMK Sun Jan 23, 2022 11:14 pm

    I can't wait for the howls in the UK press when the North Sea exercise takes place.

    Hopefully a few Tu-142M in the air.

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    Post  Krepost Mon Jan 24, 2022 1:53 am

    Mods,
    I am posting this here. If there is a more relevant thread, please move it.

    A series of exercises will be held in the areas of responsibility of all fleets of the Russian Navy
    In accordance with the training plan for the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation for 2022, a series of exercises will be held in January-February in the areas of responsibility of all fleets of the Russian Navy. Combat training activities will be carried out under the general supervision of the Commander-in-Chief of the Navy, Admiral Nikolai Evmenov.

    The main focus of the exercises is to work out the actions of the forces of the Navy and Aerospace Forces to protect Russian national interests in the World Ocean, as well as to counter military threats to the Russian Federation from sea and ocean directions.

    The exercises will cover the waters of the seas adjacent to Russian territory, as well as operationally important areas of the World Ocean. Separate exercises will take place in the Mediterranean, North, Okhotsk Seas, in the northeastern part of the Atlantic Ocean and in the Pacific Ocean.

    In total, it is planned to involve over 140 warships and support vessels, more than 60 aircraft, 1,000 units of military equipment, and about 10,000 servicemen to participate in the events.

    Official Source: https://function.mil.ru/news_page/country/more.htm?id=12404469@egNews

    French Navy confirms landing ships Korolev, Minsk and Kaliningrad are now in the Bay of Biscay:

    Source:
    https://twitter.com/hashtag/AtlantiqueNord?src=hashtag_click

    I have no confirmation for following:
    Russian Navy: Status and News #5 - Page 38 FJyitEXXoAIQ2gn?format=jpg&name=large
    Russian Navy: Status and News #5 - Page 38 FJyDGmgWUAAh9zo?format=jpg&name=large

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    limb


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    Post  limb Mon Jan 24, 2022 8:53 am

    Isos wrote:
    Big_Gazza wrote:
    Isos wrote:
    The overall design can be "old".
    The basic configuration of submarines hasn't changed in over 100 years, so any design can be considered as "old", or more accurately, of a conventional arrangement.

    Well now you have VLS, AIP and even small nuclear power plants that can be added to a SSK so the design can be much better than the one of a kilo or lada.

    Specially for russian subs since Russia has such technologies contrary to other SSK producers which keep the older arrangement (diesel engine, batteries, command room, torpedo rrom).
    I think a sterling engine would still work. Perhaps it could be heated by the radioactive decay of strontium isotopes which would create a huge temperature differential compared to arctic seawater, thus allowing for essentially unlimited range.
    Hole
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    Post  Hole Mon Jan 24, 2022 1:23 pm

    JohninMK wrote:I can't wait for the howls in the UK press when the North Sea exercise takes place.

    Hopefully a few Tu-142M in the air.

    No Tu-160M! Some presstitutes will get a stroke instantly. Laughing
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    Post  GarryB Tue Jan 25, 2022 5:25 am

    I think a sterling engine would still work. Perhaps it could be heated by the radioactive decay of strontium isotopes which would create a huge temperature differential compared to arctic seawater, thus allowing for essentially unlimited range.

    If you are using nuclear materials anyway why not just use a nuclear reactor to generate power?
    lancelot
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    Post  lancelot Tue Jan 25, 2022 5:36 am

    Strontium-90? Yeah that would be real safe. Not.
    Those kinds of devices have low power density and Strontium-90 is seriously unsafe.
    You would be better off using an actual nuclear reactor.

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    George1
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    Post  George1 Tue Jan 25, 2022 11:56 am

    Joint Russian-Chinese naval exercise "Peaceful Sea-2022" in the Arabian Sea

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    Post  mnztr Wed Jan 26, 2022 5:33 am

    George1 wrote:Joint Russian-Chinese naval exercise "Peaceful Sea-2022" in the Arabian Sea



    I wish they would name these exercises for their true intent. For example: "Mind *uck the yankees 2022"
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    Post  George1 Wed Jan 26, 2022 6:28 pm

    The exit of the ships of the Northern Fleet to the sea for an exercise as part of a grouping of heterogeneous forces

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    George1
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    Post  George1 Wed Jan 26, 2022 6:29 pm

    Departure of Black Sea Fleet ships for exercises in the Black Sea

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    JohninMK
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    Post  JohninMK Fri Jan 28, 2022 7:29 pm

    Official Northern Fleet photo.

    Looks bloody cold. Only one person on deck, drew the short straw Laughing

    Russian Navy: Status and News #5 - Page 38 66657151-A73C-4AA0-B38B-33E91F5C7375

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    franco
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    Post  franco Fri Jan 28, 2022 9:02 pm

    Renewal of the combat strength of the Pacific Fleet in 2021 and 2022


    In recent years, the Ministry of Defense has been paying great attention to the modernization of the Pacific Fleet , primarily to the renewal of its combat strength. For it, new ships and submarines are being laid and built, and the existing pennants are being modernized, and the number of such orders is constantly growing. Last year it was once again possible to observe the success of these processes - and in the new year they will be continued.

    Underwater update

    In the past 2021, three submarines of different types were included in the Pacific Fleet at once. In addition, another one, adopted by the fleet earlier, began service. As a result, in terms of quantitative indicators, the year became perhaps the most successful in modern history and made the most serious contribution to the combat capability of the fleet.

    At the beginning of last year, the Volkhov diesel-electric submarine pr. 636.3, accepted into the Pacific Fleet in December 2020, arrived at the place of permanent deployment. In October 2021, a flag-raising ceremony was held on the next ship in the series, the Magadan. Thus, the Pacific Fleet has already received three diesel-electric submarines, project 636.3, i.e. half of the planned series.

    In December, two nuclear submarines intended for the Pacific Fleet were accepted into the Navy at once. These are the strategic missile cruiser "Prince Oleg" pr. 955A and the multi-purpose boat "Novosibirsk" pr. 885A. In the near future, they will make the transition to their base in Vilyuchinsk and begin full-fledged service.

    Surface forces

    In the context of updating the surface fleet of warships, last year was not the most successful. The Pacific Fleet put into operation several new-built ships after modernization. At the same time, for various reasons, not a single act on the acceptance of a surface ship in 2021 was signed.

    At the end of 2020, the Navy adopted a new corvette, project 20385 Thundering, and another minesweeper, project 12700 Yako Balyaev, intended for the Pacific Fleet. In the spring, they made the transition to their Pacific bases and are now serving.

    In April last year, the large anti-submarine ship "Marshal Shaposhnikov" pr. 1155 returned to the Pacific Fleet after repair and deep modernization. After replacing weapons and equipment, it received a number of new features and was reclassified into a frigate.

    Plans for the future

    Meanwhile, the construction of new buildings of all main classes continues. Some of these orders, in accordance with the established schedule, have already reached the stage of completion and factory testing. Thanks to this, in 2022 the Pacific Fleet will again be able to receive several new ships and submarines. At the same time, it is the submarine forces that are waiting for a noticeable and important update.

    In the coming weeks or months, it is planned to launch the next diesel-electric submarine pr. 636.3 - "Ufa". By the end of the year, it will pass factory and state tests, after which it will be handed over to the customer. The deadline for delivery is December, and service at the assigned base will begin next year.

    Work continues on SSBNs for the Pacific Fleet. Recently, the new cruiser Generalissimo Suvorov was brought out of the boathouse, which will be tested this year. If there are no difficulties, the submarine will be handed over this year or at the beginning of the next 2023. The next cruiser, project 955A, "Emperor Alexander III", also intended for the Pacific Fleet, will be launched by the end of the year.

    Renewal of the combat strength of the Pacific Fleet in 2021 and 2022

    The grouping of multi-purpose nuclear submarines will also be replenished. The new boat "Krasnoyarsk" is already preparing for testing, which is scheduled to be completed before the end of the year. After its delivery, the Pacific Fleet is waiting for a break - it will receive its next submarine, pr. 885M, only in a few years.

    Another multi-purpose nuclear submarine will return from a major overhaul and deep modernization. The boat "Irkutsk" was built according to project 949A, and now it is being reworked according to the new "949AM". In the course of such an update, she receives new equipment and weapons that dramatically expand her capabilities.

    The restructuring of the nuclear submarine "Belgorod" under a special project 09852 continues. It was built according to pr. 949A and was multi-purpose, and now it is becoming the carrier of Poseidon underwater vehicles. In December, it was reported that the delivery of this ship would take place in 2022, and it would be transferred to the Pacific Fleet.

    Year of the ships


    The construction of several new surface ships for the Pacific Fleet continues, and the first of them will be put into operation this year. So, last summer another corvette pr. 20380 - "Sharp" was launched. Now he is undergoing factory tests and other events. In the spring it is planned to transfer it to the fleet, and almost immediately after that it will begin service.

    The second minesweeper project 12700 for the Pacific Fleet is completing tests. "Pyotr Ilyichev" was launched in April last year, and will soon be accepted by the customer. In November, the next ship of the series, Anatoly Shlemov, was launched. The construction of the minesweeper Lev Chernavin continues. In the absence of difficulties at the stages of construction and testing, already this year the flag of the Navy will be raised on three ships. At the same time, Ilyichev and Helmets, planned for delivery in the coming months, can reach their duty station by the end of the year.

    Also this year will continue the construction of new ships. In the near future, the launch of the frigate pr. 22350 "Admiral Isakov" is expected. Also, the construction of a large landing ship pr. 11711 "Vladimir Andreev" is underway. Both of these pennants can be accepted into the fleet next year.

    In parallel, the modernization of available ships temporarily withdrawn from service will continue. However, the first of them, having received new opportunities, will return to service only in the distant future - by the middle of the decade.

    Change for the better

    It should be recalled that in the past the Pacific Fleet faced serious problems in terms of modernization and renewal of the combat strength. Due to objective limitations and problems, the Navy could not build the required ships for this association, not to mention sufficient quantities and the desired pace. However, in the future, the situation began to change for the better.

    Real measures to renew the ship composition of the Pacific Fleet have been taken since the end of the 2000s. Then the first ships and submarines of new projects were laid, the construction of which took several years. The Pacific Fleet received its first SSBN of a new type in 2013, and soon it was followed by surface ships, boats and submarines of various projects.

    In the future, the pace of construction and delivery of new pennants gradually increased, and now the Pacific Fleet annually receives several combat units. However, it is easy to see that such renewal of the fleet is still limited in scope and pace. First of all, this is reflected in the supply of surface ships. They enter the Pacific Fleet irregularly and in single copies; in addition, there is a lack of first-rank pennants.

    However, the situation continues to change for the better. Shipbuilders are systematically building new warships and submarines, gradually covering the needs of the Pacific Fleet. At the same time, other operational-strategic formations are being developed. As a result, the general condition of the combat personnel of the Navy is improving both quantitatively and qualitatively.

    https://topwar-ru.translate.goog/191648-obnovlenie-boevogo-sostava-tihookeanskogo-flota-v-2021-i-2022-godah.html?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en

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    Post  JohninMK Sat Jan 29, 2022 12:48 am


    The restructuring of the nuclear submarine "Belgorod" under a special project 09852 continues. It was built according to pr. 949A and was multi-purpose, and now it is becoming the carrier of Poseidon underwater vehicles. In December, it was reported that the delivery of this ship would take place in 2022, and it would be transferred to the Pacific Fleet.

    So the Poseidon will be in the Pacific.
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    Post  lancelot Sun Jan 30, 2022 7:26 am

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    Post  Krepost Sun Jan 30, 2022 10:09 pm

    The TARANTUL class ship Shuya that has received the PANTSIR-M.
    Russian Navy: Status and News #5 - Page 38 30-10411
    Russian Navy: Status and News #5 - Page 38 30-10412
    Russian Navy: Status and News #5 - Page 38 30-10410

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    Post  walle83 Sun Jan 30, 2022 10:56 pm

    owais.usmani wrote:

    Have they added any anti-ship missiles to the ship under the refit? It was lacking before.
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    Post  limb Sun Jan 30, 2022 11:35 pm

    lancelot wrote:Strontium-90? Yeah that would be real safe. Not.
    Those kinds of devices have low power density and Strontium-90 is seriously unsafe.
    You would be better off using an actual nuclear reactor.
    Yeah,unlike lithium ion batteries or liquid oxygen which can suddenly explode at any moment. Nuclear decay doesn't create constant noise unlike a reactor cooling system with pumps and steam. A sterling engine depends on having a large treasure differential, not on energy dense fuel,and decaying isotopes are always hot by themselves.

    Then why hasn't Russia put a nuclear reactor on a Lada class size sub yet?

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    Post  GarryB Mon Jan 31, 2022 6:16 am

    Then why hasn't Russia put a nuclear reactor on a Lada class size sub yet?

    The problem is scaling... think of a nuclear reactor as a rocket motor... it just doesn't make sense to put it in a small coastal patrol submarine.

    Nuclear reactors are big but also very powerful so they take up space but also mean you can have a much bigger sub... the whole point of Lada was to make it smaller and lighter and cheaper to operate while having weapons and sensors better than previous gen subs like the improved Kilo.

    Putting a large nuclear reactor on board... well why... they have nuclear powered subs already.

    Lada is a diesel electric and that is fine as it is.

    I would suspect the primary problem with a stirling engine is the energy output is probably very low like hydrogen fuel cells, which would mean while it is charging the batteries it is next to useless... which is probably fine for small countries whose subs spend a lot of time guarding and lurking, but the Russians want a sub that is useful.
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    Post  Mir Mon Jan 31, 2022 7:25 am

    limb wrote:
    Then why hasn't Russia put a nuclear reactor on a Lada class size sub yet?

    Russia’s Malachite Design Bureau is developing a new mini nuclear submarine known as Gorgon.
    Very little is known about the sub but it is said to be similar in size and displacement to the Serval conventional mini-submarine.

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