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    Russian Navy: Status and News #5

    Mir
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    Post  Mir Fri Aug 20, 2021 9:28 pm

    x_54_u43 wrote:

    Don't know what you read, but Zaliv is pretty busy with the two massive heli carriers that got laid down a year ago. Any space in the dock as well as worker capacity is likely to be VERY limited and no way they have enough workers and space for a 20k nuclear cruiser.

    Biggest thing that's about to be laid down soon is the  Gorshkov-Ms that are confirmed to be laid down as soon as Sev Verf finishes construction of their new large boathouse.

    You could be right and they might even build more of those amphibious carriers?  If they can build small carriers they shouldn't have too many issues with building cruisers. They have some nuclear experience by building the arctic nuclear cargo ship. I guess we'll have to wait and see.
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Sat Aug 21, 2021 8:13 am

    They have two Kirovs with upgrades or getting upgrades, and they have Slavas too, which should be plenty for the next 10 years or so to support the Kuznetsov and any helicopter carrier group.

    It seems to me they want two different variants of the 40k ton helicopter carriers... one as a landing ship with helicopters and troops and armour and one with more helicopters but instead of men and armour with drones of all types and perhaps fitted out as a hospital support ship too and perhaps extra munitions and stores to support the landing.

    As such I would expect two for the Pacific Fleet and two eventually for the Northern Fleet.

    They are making frigates and are looking at heavy frigates... the question is will they mass produce both and then make destroyers and cruisers as well or will they just make a half dozen frigates and the rest of the frigates will be heavy frigates and then start on the destroyers?

    Essentially in this case they don't need to invent new missiles and new systems... the new Destroyers will just be bigger ships with bigger propulsion systems and bigger radar and bigger sonar and EO systems and more SAM launchers and more UKSK launchers and probably bigger guns... presumably 152mm calibre weapons.

    They already have better ships to escort their carrier than the UK or the French do as neither of those countries has cruisers anyway.

    The new SAM systems for their navy has Redut which is currently the equivalent of the S-350 system with 150km range and 60km range ARH SAMs and 15km IIR guided short range self defence SAMs, but the Redut for Cruisers and Destroyers and perhaps heavy Frigates should include the 250km and 400km range S-400 missiles and S-500 missiles as well as the smaller missiles in much greater numbers because Destroyers and Cruisers are not just there to defend themselves, they are there to defend a group of ships and an area of space...

    Once the new radars and sonars and new propulsion are sorted out production should be rather faster because of their modular design and standardised components.

    It will also mean that a ship based in one port wont struggle to get missiles of the type it uses when in a different port... for instance a Slava class needing Vulcan missiles and a Kirov needing Granits, a Sovremmeny needing a Moskit and a Udaloy needing a Metel.... and a Kirov also needing a Metel.

    It will take a good number of years of planning and coordination to get this right, and there will be new technologies they might be wanting to incorporate too.

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    Mir
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    Post  Mir Sat Aug 21, 2021 8:43 am

    Mir wrote:
    PapaDragon wrote:
    owais.usmani wrote:
    Mir wrote:
    Zaliv is slated for construction of the lead ship of the Lider


    Where did you read that? Any source?

    No source, it's not happening

    Lider a nowhere in Russian naval planning


    I definitely read it somewhere "official". I'll try and find the source but anyway Russia is quite serious in pursuing and aircraft carrier program in the near future. The Slavas are getting old with no upgrade plans so they will have to look at a replacement quite soon to escort the carriers.

    The Gorskov-M destroyers will replace the Udaloys and what's left of the Sovremennys. Lider will likely replace the Slavas.

    I did look for a citation regarding the Lider's future construction at Zaliv, but to no avail. The only reference I found so far is the one from Wikipedia but that does not mean much.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zalyv_Shipbuilding_yard

    In Wikipedia.ru (a more trustworthy source) there is a statement made by the Head of the Republic of Crimea, Sergey Aksenov that the plant is capable of producing all types of ships, including aircraft carriers, but no direct mention of the Lider class.

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    AMCXXL
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    Post  AMCXXL Sat Aug 21, 2021 3:24 pm

    Mir wrote:
    Mir wrote:
    PapaDragon wrote:
    owais.usmani wrote:
    Mir wrote:
    Zaliv is slated for construction of the lead ship of the Lider


    Where did you read that? Any source?

    No source, it's not happening

    Lider a nowhere in Russian naval planning


    I definitely read it somewhere "official". I'll try and find the source but anyway Russia is quite serious in pursuing and aircraft carrier program in the near future. The Slavas are getting old with no upgrade plans so they will have to look at a replacement quite soon to escort the carriers.

    The Gorskov-M destroyers will replace the Udaloys and what's left of the Sovremennys. Lider will likely replace the Slavas.

    I did look for a citation regarding the Lider's future construction at Zaliv, but to no avail. The only reference I found so far is the one from Wikipedia but that does not mean much.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zalyv_Shipbuilding_yard

    In Wikipedia.ru (a more trustworthy source) there is a statement made by the Head of the Republic of Crimea, Sergey Aksenov that the plant is capable of producing all types of ships, including aircraft carriers, but no direct mention of the Lider class.

    There is no official forecast to build Leader-class ships in the short or medium term by the Ministry of Defense. Everything that is written on the internet is speculation or fantasy

    The fact that the Zaliv has laid the keel of two UDK's makes it clear that the plant will be occupied for many years with these boats, especially if after those two, another two are built.

    Shipbuilding focuses on 22380 and 22350 during this decade, later 22350M or similar will probably come.

    The two Kirovs and perhaps any Slava class cruiser will continue in service for many years, more than enough for the only aircraft carrier
    In fact, the Slava in the Black Sea and the Pacific have no reason to exist, except as a flagship, so their decommissioning or transfer to the Northern Fleet is not a problem as the number of ships is increased with new ships. 22350

    It would not have substitutes for cruisers at least until new aircraft carriers start to be built, probably in 2035 or later.

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    Kiko
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    Post  Kiko Sat Aug 21, 2021 8:29 pm

    Moscow, perplexed at refusal of entry for its warships in Ceuta, 21.08.2021.

    MOSCOW (Sputnik) - Russia was perplexed by Spain's refusal to allow Russian warships to enter the port of Ceuta, the Russian Foreign Ministry said.

    "We learned with perplexity of the refusal of the Spanish authorities to grant permission for the ships of the Northern Fleet of the Russian Navy to enter the port of Ceuta," said the spokeswoman of the Russian Foreign Ministry, María Zajarrova, quoted in the statement.

    This step, she warned, contradicts the"spirit of the Strategic Partnership Declaration signed between the two countries in 2009 and the constructive Russian-Spanish relationship that has developed in recent years."

    "It is also surprising that Spanish officials allowed the story to leak to the country's mainstream media. They apparently want to demonstrate their alignment with NATO's Russophobic wing in the run-up to the alliance's member countries ' summit in Madrid in 2022," Zakharova added.

    On 20 August, the Spanish government refused to allow Vice Admiral Kulakov and Altay to make a logistic stopover in Ceuta from 18 to 20 August.

    The digital medium El Confidencial advanced the information, stating that the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of Spain asked Russian interlocutors for information about the subsequent destination of the ship, which was not provided.

    Spanish Ministry sources told Sputnik that the ship's stopover in Ceuta was prevented because it did not have the documentation required to dock.

    In turn, the Russian Embassy in Spain confirmed that it gave the Spanish Ministry of Foreign Affairs the necessary information to call its warships in Ceuta.

    Vice Admiral Kulakov warship's stopover in Ceuta meant a major economic injection for this city, damaged by the coronavirus pandemic and the recent crisis on the border with Morocco, which led to the irregular entry of almost 10,000 migrants.

    https://mundo.sputniknews.com/20210821/moscu-perplejo-ante-denegacion-de-la-entrada-para-sus-buques-de-guerra-en-ceuta-1115292686.html

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    Finty
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    Post  Finty Sat Aug 21, 2021 11:39 pm

    Bit rude innit
    flamming_python
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    Post  flamming_python Sun Aug 22, 2021 12:02 am

    Finty wrote:Bit rude innit

    Not a particularly relevant country for Russia exactly either

    If they don't want to make money off refueling and resupplying then that's their business. I'm sure Algeria would be happy to oblige instead
    Big_Gazza
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    Post  Big_Gazza Sun Aug 22, 2021 1:26 am

    Kiko wrote:Moscow, perplexed at refusal of entry for its warships in Ceuta, 21.08.2021.

    Meh, a Eurotrash faggot cuck nation doing what Uncle Shmuel tells them to do... Pathetic little quisling state.
    kvs
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    Post  kvs Sun Aug 22, 2021 2:35 am

    Spain is still fighting communism and sees reds (Russians) under every bed.

    flamming_python
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    Post  flamming_python Sun Aug 22, 2021 3:13 am

    kvs wrote:Spain is still fighting communism and sees reds (Russians) under every bed.


    Na they're a totally woke and cucked nation. 15% of the youth identify as LGBT, or whatever.

    Not a matter of fighting communism for them, just following Washington

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    Mir
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    Post  Mir Sun Aug 22, 2021 9:10 am

    kvs wrote:Spain is still fighting communism and sees reds (Russians) under every bed.


    Better "dead than red" - I think most retard people in the West still regard Russia as a Communist country Smile
    Well Putin is definitely an evil and ambitious KGB Communist dictator that wants to rule the World Laughing

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    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Sun Aug 22, 2021 10:09 am

    It is fine. If they don't want to earn money and sell things to the Russian Navy I am sure there will be other countries with ports who are prepared to get that business.

    Worst case scenario they might have to build a few more supply and support ships to extend their endurance at sea.

    Shift them into the less reliable potential partners list and carry on.
    medo
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    Post  medo Sun Aug 22, 2021 10:29 am



    Novorossiysk naval base.

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    PapaDragon
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    Post  PapaDragon Sun Aug 22, 2021 2:26 pm


    So I take it it's finished?

    Now it should be filled up, all the BSF Kilos, Bykovs and Buyans are slated to be stationed here

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    AMCXXL
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    Post  AMCXXL Sun Aug 22, 2021 5:11 pm

    GarryB wrote:It is fine. If they don't want to earn money and sell things to the Russian Navy I am sure there will be other countries with ports who are prepared to get that business.

    Worst case scenario they might have to build a few more supply and support ships to extend their endurance at sea.

    Shift them into the less reliable potential partners list and carry on.

    No problem, Russian ships will refuel in Algeria

    It is the typical summer soap opera, the government denies the supply of fuel to Russia (already happened in 2015), and after a couple of months forget about the matter

    The irony is that the owner of the bunkering company that operates in Ceuta was a minister of the conservative government (in 2015), which logically shortly after withdrew and let the Russian ships refuel.

    The level of servility of the government and the media in Spain towards the American Master is disgusting


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    Last edited by AMCXXL on Sun Aug 22, 2021 9:15 pm; edited 1 time in total

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    Mir
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    Post  Mir Sun Aug 22, 2021 5:49 pm

    AMCXXL wrote:

    No problem, Russian ships will refuel in Algeria

    It will be a good day for me when Russia expands it naval presence in Algeria. Smile
    Broski
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    Post  Broski Sun Aug 22, 2021 8:10 pm

    Mir wrote:
    AMCXXL wrote:

    No problem, Russian ships will refuel in Algeria

    It will be a good day for me when Russia expands it naval presence in Algeria. Smile  
    I'm genuinely surprised that Russia hasn't opened a naval base in Algeria by now, they're one of the few time-tested, true allies of Russia in the whole MENA region.

    Assad laid up under Uncle Scam for a short while, Morocco handed over Russian gear to America the 1st chance they got, Egypt crawled completely under the western sphere of influence for 40 years straight playing second fiddle to Israel, Saudi Arabia, the Gulf Monarchs and even Turkey, Iran couldn't offer billions of dollars for western commercial jets fast enough, and China isn't an ally so much as a rabid opportunist that wouldn't have hesitated to join NATO and its Eastern European lapdogs in carving up Russia, Yugoslavia-Style had Khordorkovsky came to power instead of Putin.

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    Kiko
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    Post  Kiko Sun Aug 22, 2021 9:48 pm

    kvs wrote:Spain is still fighting communism and sees reds (Russians) under every bed.

    Spanish PM Pedro Sánchez is just following EU foreign policy chief Josep Borrell. Both are fiery Russophobes and members of the "transgender" so-called Socialist Party of ineffable Felipe González and José Luis Rodriguez Zapatero who set conservative trends as well as NATO submission among the Spanish leftist movement in the 90s.

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    flamming_python
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    Post  flamming_python Sun Aug 22, 2021 10:53 pm

    Broski wrote:
    Mir wrote:
    AMCXXL wrote:

    No problem, Russian ships will refuel in Algeria

    It will be a good day for me when Russia expands it naval presence in Algeria. Smile  
    I'm genuinely surprised that Russia hasn't opened a naval base in Algeria by now, they're one of the few time-tested, true allies of Russia in the whole MENA region.

    Assad laid up under Uncle Scam for a short while, Morocco handed over Russian gear to America the 1st chance they got, Egypt crawled completely under the western sphere of influence for 40 years straight playing second fiddle to Israel, Saudi Arabia, the Gulf Monarchs and even Turkey, Iran couldn't offer billions of dollars for western commercial jets fast enough, and China isn't an ally so much as a rabid opportunist that wouldn't have hesitated to join NATO and its Eastern European lapdogs in carving up Russia, Yugoslavia-Style had Khordorkovsky came to power instead of Putin.

    What would Algeria need a Russian naval base there for though?

    It has its own relationship with Europe to think about. Russia serves as a valuable counter-balance to Western influence for them and as an ally against Islamists, but it's just one vector of its foreign policy.

    Russia itself doesn't need a naval base in the Western Mediterranean; it has few interests there in any case. Just a reliable place to refuel will do nicely.

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    Mir
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    Post  Mir Mon Aug 23, 2021 8:48 am

    flamming_python wrote:
    What would Algeria need a Russian naval base there for though?

    It has its own relationship with Europe to think about. Russia serves as a valuable counter-balance to Western influence for them and as an ally against Islamists, but it's just one vector of its foreign policy.

    Russia itself doesn't need a naval base in the Western Mediterranean; it has few interests there in any case. Just a reliable place to refuel will do nicely.

    I do agree yes but a naval base (and air base) would not only provide NATO free refueling facilities, but it would also provide transit protection to and from the Western Med.

    Russia is already building a Naval base in Sudan (Red Sea) and military facilities in Egypt and Eritrea. Even as far south as Madagascar and Mozambique.
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    Post  ALAMO Mon Aug 23, 2021 10:05 am

    Yeah, but it is a kind of different story.
    That bases or facilities are there to secure the route to the Indian Ocean.
    And there is no other way, as long as the idea of making a canal from Caspian to the Persian Gulf is dead meat.
    And that route will be more and more important, as there are increasing Russian interests in the region, including Africa and SE Asia.
    Mir
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    Post  Mir Mon Aug 23, 2021 10:11 am

    ALAMO wrote:Yeah, but it is a kind of different story.
    That bases or facilities are there to secure the route to the Indian Ocean.
    And there is no other way, as long as the idea of making a canal from Caspian to the Persian Gulf is dead meat.
    And that route will be more and more important, as there are increasing Russian interests in the region, including Africa and SE Asia.

    Same story - just different ocean Laughing

    A little bit of security for your ships and subs is a hell of a lot better better than nothing.
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    Post  dino00 Mon Aug 23, 2021 10:33 am

    The Kremlin press service previously reported that Russian President Vladimir Putin on August 23, via videoconference, will give the command to lay down warships for the Navy at the leading shipbuilding enterprises of the Russian Federation.

    "Sevmash will lay down two strategic nuclear submarines of project 955A, at Admiralteyskiye Vervyh - two diesel-electric submarines of project 636.3, at the Amur shipyard - corvettes of projects 20380 and 20385," the source said


    https://ria.ru/20210823/vmf-1746787248.html

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    Post  ALAMO Mon Aug 23, 2021 7:09 pm

    avatar
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    Post  Arrow Wed Aug 25, 2021 4:40 pm

    Zaliv shipbulding will be modernized.

    https://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/12213799

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