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    Russian Navy: Status and News #5

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    ALAMO

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    Post  ALAMO Fri Aug 20, 2021 1:40 pm

    ... and the living proof, that Zaliv is working as planned, what used to be neglected by nay-sayers for a long time.

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    Post  Russian_Patriot_ Fri Aug 20, 2021 2:22 pm

    Rodion_Romanovic wrote:Very good, I remember having read that this (together with his brother) was stuck in the drydock in incomplete state for a few years due to lack of some specific equipment due to sanctions...
    Most likely, since the construction should have been completed two years ago according to the original plan
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    Post  Rodion_Romanovic Fri Aug 20, 2021 4:11 pm

    ALAMO wrote:... and the living proof, that Zaliv is working as planned, what used to be neglected by nay-sayers for a long time.

    By the way, was Zaliv in better condition than the shipyards in Nikolaev in 2014?
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    Arrow

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    Post  Arrow Fri Aug 20, 2021 4:59 pm

    Zaliv now has a very ambitious task. Construction of two LHD units with a displacement of 40,000 tons. No other shipyard in Russia builds such large ships aside from Zviezda. I wonder if Zaliv will build a new Russian aircraft carrier in the future? scratch
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    Post  owais.usmani Fri Aug 20, 2021 7:06 pm

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    Mir
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    Post  Mir Fri Aug 20, 2021 7:58 pm

    Not so nice to see cry

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    Post  Mir Fri Aug 20, 2021 8:30 pm

    Arrow wrote:Zaliv now has a very ambitious task.  Construction of two LHD units with a displacement of 40,000 tons.  No other shipyard in Russia builds such large ships aside from Zviezda.  I wonder if Zaliv will build a new Russian aircraft carrier in the future? scratch

    Zaliv is slated for construction of the lead ship of the Lider - we'll see?

    AND I hope to see a couple of new Zubrs in future! Smile
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    Post  ALAMO Fri Aug 20, 2021 8:32 pm

    Mir wrote:Not so nice to see cry

    I feel the opposite.
    Times, when old warships used to rust just along the pier or sink in harbour, are over.
    Scrapping is running according to the plan, I'm quite surprised they took care of that with such a rush.
    That is yet another piece of evidence that they are getting better and better each week.
    g the

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    Arrow

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    Post  Arrow Fri Aug 20, 2021 8:58 pm

    Mir wrote:

    Zaliv is slated for construction of the lead ship of the Lider - we'll see?


    I think they will not build Lider destroyer. I think they will focus on building the 22350M project.[/quote]
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    Post  flamming_python Fri Aug 20, 2021 9:22 pm

    ALAMO wrote:
    Mir wrote:Not so nice to see cry

    I feel the opposite.
    Times, when old warships used to rust just along the pier or sink in harbour, are over.
    Scrapping is running according to the plan, I'm quite surprised they took care of that with such a rush.
    That is yet another piece of evidence that they are getting better and better each week.
    g the

    It may be the end of an era, but also the start of a new one russia

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    owais.usmani

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    Post  owais.usmani Fri Aug 20, 2021 10:07 pm

    Mir wrote:
    Zaliv is slated for construction of the lead ship of the Lider


    Where did you read that? Any source?
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    Post  PapaDragon Fri Aug 20, 2021 10:09 pm

    owais.usmani wrote:
    Mir wrote:
    Zaliv is slated for construction of the lead ship of the Lider


    Where did you read that? Any source?

    No source, it's not happening

    Lider a nowhere in Russian naval planning

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    Post  Mir Fri Aug 20, 2021 10:48 pm

    owais.usmani wrote:
    Mir wrote:
    Zaliv is slated for construction of the lead ship of the Lider


    Where did you read that? Any source?

    OMG that's a tough question but I've read it somewhere when I did some research the around Russian and Soviet shipyards. I'll try and find it for you.
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    Post  Mir Fri Aug 20, 2021 10:54 pm

    PapaDragon wrote:
    owais.usmani wrote:
    Mir wrote:
    Zaliv is slated for construction of the lead ship of the Lider


    Where did you read that? Any source?

    No source, it's not happening

    Lider a nowhere in Russian naval planning


    I definitely read it somewhere "official". I'll try and find the source but anyway Russia is quite serious in pursuing and aircraft carrier program in the near future. The Slavas are getting old with no upgrade plans so they will have to look at a replacement quite soon to escort the carriers.

    The Gorskov-M destroyers will replace the Udaloys and what's left of the Sovremennys. Lider will likely replace the Slavas.
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    Post  Mir Fri Aug 20, 2021 11:35 pm

    I've read it somewhere that the lead ship of the Lider class will start building in 2023 in the Zaliv shipyard. In the same article I've read that the Lider will be nuclear powered and will be quite large at around  18-19000 tons. It could have been something on Balancer.ru as I visit there quite often? However I've only managed so far to get a Wikipedia reference to that effect, but no real details or further citations on Wikipedia.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zalyv_Shipbuilding_yard
    Broski
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    Post  Broski Sat Aug 21, 2021 12:13 am

    Mir wrote:I've read it somewhere that the lead ship of the Lider class will start building in 2023 in the Zaliv shipyard. In the same article I've read that the Lider will be nuclear powered and will be quite large at around  18-19000 tons. It could have been something on Balancer.ru as I visit there quite often? However I've only managed so far to get a Wikipedia reference to that effect, but no real details or further citations on Wikipedia.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zalyv_Shipbuilding_yard
    I think you're mistaken, Russia plans to start building its 2nd and 3rd Lider-Class Icebreakers starting from 2023.

    The steel cutting for the first Project 10510 icebreaker began at Zvezda on 6 July 2020. The first vessel of the series will be named Rossiya, a name previously given to the third Arktika-class icebreaker that was in service in 1985–2013. It was laid down on 5 July 2021. The construction of two follow-on vessels is planned to begin in 2023 and 2025 respectively. The envisaged dates for making those ships operational are projected as 2030 and 2032

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_10510_icebreaker#Construction
    x_54_u43
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    Post  x_54_u43 Sat Aug 21, 2021 12:36 am

    Mir wrote:I've read it somewhere that the lead ship of the Lider class will start building in 2023 in the Zaliv shipyard. In the same article I've read that the Lider will be nuclear powered and will be quite large at around  18-19000 tons. It could have been something on Balancer.ru as I visit there quite often? However I've only managed so far to get a Wikipedia reference to that effect, but no real details or further citations on Wikipedia.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zalyv_Shipbuilding_yard

    Don't know what you read, but Zaliv is pretty busy with the two massive heli carriers that got laid down a year ago. Any space in the dock as well as worker capacity is likely to be VERY limited and no way they have enough workers and space for a 20k nuclear cruiser.

    Biggest thing that's about to be laid down soon is the Gorshkov-Ms that are confirmed to be laid down as soon as Sev Verf finishes construction of their new large boathouse.
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    Post  Isos Sat Aug 21, 2021 12:40 am

    PapaDragon wrote:
    owais.usmani wrote:
    Mir wrote:
    Zaliv is slated for construction of the lead ship of the Lider


    Where did you read that? Any source?

    No source, it's not happening

    Lider a nowhere in Russian naval planning


    The source is the old troll lol1 .

    What was his name ? Ehniee or something like that ?

    Remember according to his source Lider was already in production back then lol1 .
    Mir
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    Post  Mir Sat Aug 21, 2021 12:45 am

    Broski wrote:
    Mir wrote:I've read it somewhere that the lead ship of the Lider class will start building in 2023 in the Zaliv shipyard. In the same article I've read that the Lider will be nuclear powered and will be quite large at around  18-19000 tons. It could have been something on Balancer.ru as I visit there quite often? However I've only managed so far to get a Wikipedia reference to that effect, but no real details or further citations on Wikipedia.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zalyv_Shipbuilding_yard
    I think you're mistaken, Russia plans to start building its 2nd and 3rd Lider-Class Icebreakers starting from 2023.

    The steel cutting for the first Project 10510 icebreaker began at Zvezda on 6 July 2020. The first vessel of the series will be named Rossiya, a name previously given to the third Arktika-class icebreaker that was in service in 1985–2013. It was laid down on 5 July 2021. The construction of two follow-on vessels is planned to begin in 2023 and 2025 respectively. The envisaged dates for making those ships operational are projected as 2030 and 2032

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_10510_icebreaker#Construction

    I'm talking about Zaliv and not the Zvezda shipyard and it does not include the icebreakers.
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    Post  Mir Sat Aug 21, 2021 12:58 am

    x_54_u43 wrote:

    Don't know what you read, but Zaliv is pretty busy with the two massive heli carriers that got laid down a year ago. Any space in the dock as well as worker capacity is likely to be VERY limited and no way they have enough workers and space for a 20k nuclear cruiser.

    Biggest thing that's about to be laid down soon is the  Gorshkov-Ms that are confirmed to be laid down as soon as Sev Verf finishes construction of their new large boathouse.

    You could be right and they might even build more of those amphibious carriers?  If they can build small carriers they shouldn't have too many issues with building cruisers. They have some nuclear experience by building the arctic nuclear cargo ship. I guess we'll have to wait and see.
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    Post  GarryB Sat Aug 21, 2021 11:43 am

    They have two Kirovs with upgrades or getting upgrades, and they have Slavas too, which should be plenty for the next 10 years or so to support the Kuznetsov and any helicopter carrier group.

    It seems to me they want two different variants of the 40k ton helicopter carriers... one as a landing ship with helicopters and troops and armour and one with more helicopters but instead of men and armour with drones of all types and perhaps fitted out as a hospital support ship too and perhaps extra munitions and stores to support the landing.

    As such I would expect two for the Pacific Fleet and two eventually for the Northern Fleet.

    They are making frigates and are looking at heavy frigates... the question is will they mass produce both and then make destroyers and cruisers as well or will they just make a half dozen frigates and the rest of the frigates will be heavy frigates and then start on the destroyers?

    Essentially in this case they don't need to invent new missiles and new systems... the new Destroyers will just be bigger ships with bigger propulsion systems and bigger radar and bigger sonar and EO systems and more SAM launchers and more UKSK launchers and probably bigger guns... presumably 152mm calibre weapons.

    They already have better ships to escort their carrier than the UK or the French do as neither of those countries has cruisers anyway.

    The new SAM systems for their navy has Redut which is currently the equivalent of the S-350 system with 150km range and 60km range ARH SAMs and 15km IIR guided short range self defence SAMs, but the Redut for Cruisers and Destroyers and perhaps heavy Frigates should include the 250km and 400km range S-400 missiles and S-500 missiles as well as the smaller missiles in much greater numbers because Destroyers and Cruisers are not just there to defend themselves, they are there to defend a group of ships and an area of space...

    Once the new radars and sonars and new propulsion are sorted out production should be rather faster because of their modular design and standardised components.

    It will also mean that a ship based in one port wont struggle to get missiles of the type it uses when in a different port... for instance a Slava class needing Vulcan missiles and a Kirov needing Granits, a Sovremmeny needing a Moskit and a Udaloy needing a Metel.... and a Kirov also needing a Metel.

    It will take a good number of years of planning and coordination to get this right, and there will be new technologies they might be wanting to incorporate too.

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    Mir
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    Post  Mir Sat Aug 21, 2021 12:13 pm

    Mir wrote:
    PapaDragon wrote:
    owais.usmani wrote:
    Mir wrote:
    Zaliv is slated for construction of the lead ship of the Lider


    Where did you read that? Any source?

    No source, it's not happening

    Lider a nowhere in Russian naval planning


    I definitely read it somewhere "official". I'll try and find the source but anyway Russia is quite serious in pursuing and aircraft carrier program in the near future. The Slavas are getting old with no upgrade plans so they will have to look at a replacement quite soon to escort the carriers.

    The Gorskov-M destroyers will replace the Udaloys and what's left of the Sovremennys. Lider will likely replace the Slavas.

    I did look for a citation regarding the Lider's future construction at Zaliv, but to no avail. The only reference I found so far is the one from Wikipedia but that does not mean much.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zalyv_Shipbuilding_yard

    In Wikipedia.ru (a more trustworthy source) there is a statement made by the Head of the Republic of Crimea, Sergey Aksenov that the plant is capable of producing all types of ships, including aircraft carriers, but no direct mention of the Lider class.

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    Post  AMCXXL Sat Aug 21, 2021 6:54 pm

    Mir wrote:
    Mir wrote:
    PapaDragon wrote:
    owais.usmani wrote:
    Mir wrote:
    Zaliv is slated for construction of the lead ship of the Lider


    Where did you read that? Any source?

    No source, it's not happening

    Lider a nowhere in Russian naval planning


    I definitely read it somewhere "official". I'll try and find the source but anyway Russia is quite serious in pursuing and aircraft carrier program in the near future. The Slavas are getting old with no upgrade plans so they will have to look at a replacement quite soon to escort the carriers.

    The Gorskov-M destroyers will replace the Udaloys and what's left of the Sovremennys. Lider will likely replace the Slavas.

    I did look for a citation regarding the Lider's future construction at Zaliv, but to no avail. The only reference I found so far is the one from Wikipedia but that does not mean much.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zalyv_Shipbuilding_yard

    In Wikipedia.ru (a more trustworthy source) there is a statement made by the Head of the Republic of Crimea, Sergey Aksenov that the plant is capable of producing all types of ships, including aircraft carriers, but no direct mention of the Lider class.

    There is no official forecast to build Leader-class ships in the short or medium term by the Ministry of Defense. Everything that is written on the internet is speculation or fantasy

    The fact that the Zaliv has laid the keel of two UDK's makes it clear that the plant will be occupied for many years with these boats, especially if after those two, another two are built.

    Shipbuilding focuses on 22380 and 22350 during this decade, later 22350M or similar will probably come.

    The two Kirovs and perhaps any Slava class cruiser will continue in service for many years, more than enough for the only aircraft carrier
    In fact, the Slava in the Black Sea and the Pacific have no reason to exist, except as a flagship, so their decommissioning or transfer to the Northern Fleet is not a problem as the number of ships is increased with new ships. 22350

    It would not have substitutes for cruisers at least until new aircraft carriers start to be built, probably in 2035 or later.

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    Post  Kiko Sat Aug 21, 2021 11:59 pm

    Moscow, perplexed at refusal of entry for its warships in Ceuta, 21.08.2021.

    MOSCOW (Sputnik) - Russia was perplexed by Spain's refusal to allow Russian warships to enter the port of Ceuta, the Russian Foreign Ministry said.

    "We learned with perplexity of the refusal of the Spanish authorities to grant permission for the ships of the Northern Fleet of the Russian Navy to enter the port of Ceuta," said the spokeswoman of the Russian Foreign Ministry, María Zajarrova, quoted in the statement.

    This step, she warned, contradicts the"spirit of the Strategic Partnership Declaration signed between the two countries in 2009 and the constructive Russian-Spanish relationship that has developed in recent years."

    "It is also surprising that Spanish officials allowed the story to leak to the country's mainstream media. They apparently want to demonstrate their alignment with NATO's Russophobic wing in the run-up to the alliance's member countries ' summit in Madrid in 2022," Zakharova added.

    On 20 August, the Spanish government refused to allow Vice Admiral Kulakov and Altay to make a logistic stopover in Ceuta from 18 to 20 August.

    The digital medium El Confidencial advanced the information, stating that the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of Spain asked Russian interlocutors for information about the subsequent destination of the ship, which was not provided.

    Spanish Ministry sources told Sputnik that the ship's stopover in Ceuta was prevented because it did not have the documentation required to dock.

    In turn, the Russian Embassy in Spain confirmed that it gave the Spanish Ministry of Foreign Affairs the necessary information to call its warships in Ceuta.

    Vice Admiral Kulakov warship's stopover in Ceuta meant a major economic injection for this city, damaged by the coronavirus pandemic and the recent crisis on the border with Morocco, which led to the irregular entry of almost 10,000 migrants.

    https://mundo.sputniknews.com/20210821/moscu-perplejo-ante-denegacion-de-la-entrada-para-sus-buques-de-guerra-en-ceuta-1115292686.html

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    Post  Finty Sun Aug 22, 2021 3:09 am

    Bit rude innit

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