Kuznetzov is a floating monument to failure and was never really a factor in any Naval matters (other than tying down resources, manpower and aircraft)
Kuznetsov will be completing upgrades and a scheduled overhaul interrupted by operations in Syria and will become operational in the Northern Fleet protecting trade from American devils who will likely play the same freedom of navigation bullshit games they play on India and most other countries.
Two 40K ton helicopter carriers will be in the water in 6-7 years time and will also need something better than a Frigate to operate with them and support them.
Kirovs are nice to have but not exactly something a pair of frigates can't fill in for
Kirovs are cruisers, which means they can provide area defence coordination over a group of ships... something no Frigate can do.
Vanilla Gorshkov easily replaces Udaloi and those latest Gorshkovs with expanded LACMs can do the job for Slavas no problem
Gorshkovs are Frigates... they wont be sailing around the world or supporting landing operations in Alaska...
Problem is construction speed and considering that even Gorshkov takes ages to build commiting to Super Gorshkov is even more wasteful and is definitely pointless
They have not been producing them because they needed to get the design right and tested before committing to making any more let alone scaling them up.
Better to fix problems for what you already have (Gorshkov) than to create even more problems by chasing some ego-trip boondoggle in the making (Super Gorshkov)
There don't seem to be any problems with Gorshkov Frigates, and a scaled up more efficient and better armed model should be no problem.
Point is to have a credible force by the time the current fleet rusts away.
Point is that when talking to PD you can't have a rational discussion about the Russian Navy or Rogozin... it would be like talking to Vann about Putin or the coronovirus.
Which will start happening by the beginning of the next decade or even the end of the current one, with the retirement of the Slavas, and then not long after the Udaloys.
If they only wanted frigates then convert more Udaloys and forget the Kirovs and Slavas... and the Kuznetsovs and of course any 40K ton landing ships they might have recently laid down.
Which I agree is a hulk but it looks like they're set on keeping it so might as well put it to use.
By 2025 they could have Su-57s on it... plus they are upgrading their Su-30s to Su-35 level, so a similar upgrade for their Su-33s could make them much more potent aircraft...
The shipyards need to get their act together, there's no other way out of this predicament.
What are you talking about.... what the **** would Russia do with 24 brand new state of the art Destroyers and 8 brand new state of the art Cruisers right now?
The problem with internet warriors is that they spend all day waiting for that announcement for new shit, and when most of the time it is Chinese they get pissy... they don't realise that China lacks military might and has all the money it needs or wants, so of course it is going to spend money on ship building programmes and all sorts of other shit... so what... it is directed at bullies... and even if it was all aimed directly at Russia are you suggesting the solution for Russia is to join the mindless arms race that already bankrupted the Soviet Union.
Russia does not need the US Navy... it needs to be smarter and much better equipped and right now with MiG-31Ks and Kinzhal missiles there are no navies on the planet that threaten Russia... even all of them combined the world will run out of ships before Russia runs out of missiles.
The Russian Navy is not for the defence of Russia now... it is to project power but also project trade so the west can't suffocate Russia and regime change potential customers and trade partners... and so Russia needs some Corvettes of a few different types for their different fleets... maybe 36 or so, plus maybe 16 frigates, which would be four per four major fleets, and they will hang around Russian waters doing the business of spines on a porcupine, while 24 destroyers... 6 per fleet should provide good solid protection and also a ready to go force that could sail anywhere, and 8-12 cruisers with 4-6 in the Northern Fleet and Pacific Fleet that would form the core of a carrier group with helicopter carriers and fixed wing carriers and destroyers... a carrier group might consist of two cruisers and four destroyers from the fleet it is operating from with perhaps a couple of destroyers from another fleet to support, plus a helicopter landing ship with naval infantry and one with helicopters and drones to support any operations...
The Russians aren't building a flotilla to go all around the world; they're building a navy that can protect them against their adversaries. The vast majority of the trade-routes en-use by Russia are going to be coastal.
To protect their coast they have MiG-31Ks with Kinzhal missiles.
No ship could react as quickly, operate as cheaply and attack with more deadly force as a flight of MiGs.
For everything else Corvettes and Frigates are plenty.
They are not giving up their blue water fleet, the relevant documents are available for anyone wanting to check them.
If they were giving up a blue water fleet there would be no purpose in upgrading the Kuznetsov or the Slava class cruisers or the Kirov class cruisers... waste of time and money... unless they plan for a blue water navy in which case they need to get their support infrastructure in place, support ships in service, and of course home waters defended fully because their technology is modular and scalable... they have UKSK launchers working, they have Redut SAMS working, and their small calibre guns are working and apart from bigger sonars and bigger radars the bigger ships are just going to be carrying more UKSK bins and more Redut tubes... they are almost through the hardest stuff and you guys are pissing all over their hard work.
They could half arse it... they can make 100K ton carriers that don't work, ... Maybe Ford was the hint... a ford is a shallow part of a river or stream where land vehicles can move safely across... or they could make 7 billion dollar Zumwalt destroyers that are bloody useless... they could build three of them of the 32 they were going to build... or perhaps even invent a whole new class of vessels... littoral coastal ships.... which turn out to be useless dogs that they can't fix.... maybe the Ukraine could make some gearboxes that would work... but eventually they ended up buying ships from Italy... Ships not a lot different from Gorshkov frigates strangely enough... who are the idiots who don't know what they are doing?
Russian ships are taking time because they are doing it right and not skipping through tests it fails to get it into service and production, because the Navy are going to test them and if they don't work they are not going to accept them.
Russia lives in the real world and can't rely on the American dream of corruption and bribery to get them through...
With the advent of long-range standoff missiles that can be launched from ship, aircraft or land (remember that the treaty banning land-based cruise missiles is gone) where will the Russian navy make use of their destroyer fleet? Where do they currently use them primarily?
With the EU and US being a bunch of childish
how do you think Russia will trade with the rest of the world... we know they are happy imposing sanctions on Russia and anyone who trades with Russia... including countries that are rather more important to the west than Russia is like Turkey and India...
How do you expect the west to react to really good trade relations between Russia and the rest of the world... especially if they only have Corvettes and Frigates?
Russia needs a navy for teh same reason China needs a navy... not to take on the US or EU... they would hardly be spending billions on silk routes from Asia to the EU if they thought the west was their enemy... but the fact is that the rest of the world is out there and wanting free and fair trade... something they are clearly not getting from the west. Russia doesn't care if Africa and central and south america and asia get rich on trade with Russia... as long as Russia gets rich too. Russia doesn't care if China gets rich too... good for China.
That is what a multipolar world is... a world where everyone gets to live like rich fucking white people.... sounds great... especially to the poor white people who hear they oppress the world with their white skin colour but have not yet enjoyed the actual benefits of being rich yet.
There is no need to read Russia's thoughts or turn into future tellers when VMF have clearly said what they will do and when.
Indeed... now is not the time to circle the wagons and limit herself to what the EU will trade with them... the rest of the world is there.
Several Gorshkovs can easily replace 2 or 3 cruisers, time and technology moved on
A group of Gorshkovs could defend each other, but not from a full scale attack.
A modern Cruiser has a lot more SAMs and air defence systems to defend itself and the ships it is operating with.
That is why it has to be so big and to carry so many missiles.
Cold War is over, Russia will not be doing anything anywhere where frigate can't reach
Of course... Russia should isolate itself and not trade with anyone except the EU... how can the EU pinch all the new Russian technologies if they bypass the west and trade directly with what the west calls the third world.
Canoe can keep up with Kuznetzov for what little time it will be around
If you are not capable of rational discussion don't bother with such flamebaiting.
They are investing in Nakhimov because it's still not fallen apart that's all there is to it, same goes for Udalois
But why... if there are no future plans for Cruisers then there would be little use for them now... scrapping them would free up lots of money and space...
As for Kuznetsov it's just a phantom pain of a dead empire that old idiots still in charge can't let go of
It does not fit with your view so it must just be that they are idiots.
Except if you are wrong and then it makes perfect sense that they upgrade it so it can be used for a decade or two while other ships are getting into the water...
That is what Kuznetsov is: embodiment of pathetic insecurity and jealousy that serves no other purpose than as a monument to self-hate and failure
But you are not bitter...
What an angry little man you are.
Just imagine the misery of men who are forced to serve on that testament to failure? Few things could be more degrading than that
Wonder where they will find crews then...
Russia can barely intervene next door, what do you think they would do halfway across the fucking planet?
Get your head out of your arse mate... there is a huge difference between being able to do something and choosing other solutions first.
I realise you love America so everything is 100K super carriers and regime change... but settle down with the temper tantrum.
You think Brazil will be happy to see them?
No, Brazil probably loves being controlled by Washington... I am sure having their people die because the Americans want to sell vaccines and don't want Russia to sell any makes them feel super proud... what choice do they get?
If they make the wrong move the west will economically crush them... what was that famous note in that meeting in Washington about a country not doing as it was told... make their economy scream... but it is not accountants that scream, nor economists.... it is women and children because there is no food no money no jobs... because the US is mad and their government... again...
Gorshkov did a circumnavigation, there is no place farther in this planet than that.
And Corvettes did too, but they are not ideal for such missions.... in fact very much token trips a one off sort of deal.
Vanilla Gorshkov has the same amount of missiles (superior ones) to Slava-class
Which just shows that Slava class ships are no longer adequately armed and need to be upgraded and then replaced.
As for other stuff welcome to the 21st century, grandpa
Or are you one those people who still think that searchlights are vital part of AA defense?
Even without hypersonic anti ship missiles the west would not care too much about a Frigate... its SAMs reach 150km... so from 200km they will start launching Harpoons and they have thousands of those... how many SAMs does a frigate have?
So why do they need cruisers, again?
That was a ferry range voyage.... actually going somewhere to actually do something for more than a day requires a much bigger ship.
As for Zircons only surface ship capable of carrying any significant number of them further than a littoral zone is barely managing to reach double digit number
That is OK, they wont need many.
@PD: Keep barking, writing drivel in provocative ways does not turn you in the expert and the VMF in the amateurs.
His butt hurt is embarrassing...