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    Russian Navy: Status and News #5

    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Sat Feb 20, 2021 6:56 am

    The point is that no level of upgrade for Kirov class ships will mean they wont need brand new design Cruisers when they start laying down a CVN.

    They are going to need destroyers and new build cruisers... if they didn't want cruisers then there would be no point upgrading the two Orlan class ships and Slava class ships.

    Their upgrades to old cold war destroyers Udaloy and Sovremmeny are essentially turning them into Frigate equivalent ships so the real gap is long range ships so two upgraded orlans and three upgraded or about to be upgraded Slavas means they have ships they can send with the Kuznetsov and these new helicopter carriers when they are back in the water.

    The upgraded Udaloy and Sov ships might be classed as frigates but they have the size and capacity for long range operations so they could be used as escorts on longer trips and of course the upgraded cruisers are designed for defending themselves and ships they are operating with... which is what corvettes and frigates lack.

    Once the current ships that are worth upgrading get upgraded and production of corvettes and frigates is serialised and hopefully putting out new ships to replace the older and unupgraded models then they can start on a destroyer template and perhaps a scaled up cruiser template for real world testing and trouble shooting...

    I expect the destroyers and cruisers to be nuclear powered but not bigger than the Kirov... probably 12-14K tons for the destroyer and 18-20K tons for the new cruisers...

    Good to see they are getting ships into service... hopefully they ramp up production of the Corvettes and Frigates and lay down at least a destroyer in addition to an upgraded frigate.
    Tsavo Lion
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    Post  Tsavo Lion Sun Feb 28, 2021 5:07 am

    Fleet modernization program is bearing fruit

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    PapaDragon
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    Post  PapaDragon Tue Mar 02, 2021 12:34 am


    Future museum showcasing the K-3 the first Soviet nuclear submarine in Kronstadt

    Russian Navy: Status and News #5 - Page 20 340i246y8hk61

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    magnumcromagnon
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    Post  magnumcromagnon Thu Mar 04, 2021 3:51 am

    With a long-range sight: enemy ships will be noticed hundreds of kilometers away

    Russian Navy: Status and News #5 - Page 20 S-dalnim-pricelom-korabli-protivnika-zametyat-za-sotni-kilometrov-70jred90-1614724501.t

    Naval aviation will be connected to"killer" networks. The Navy will receive a unique automated control system (ACS). Thanks to the new technology, planes, helicopters and drones will be able to transmit and receive coordinates and parameters of targets from ships, submarines and ground-based surveillance systems in real time. After that, the detected enemy objects will be destroyed by all available means. Thus, according to experts, the fleet will be able to create continuous damage zones with an area of hundreds or even thousands of kilometers. This automated control system is particularly effective in the case of using hypersonic systems "Zircon"and " Dagger".

    Naval aviation will be connected to"killer" networks. The Navy will receive a unique automated control system (ACS). Thanks to the new technology, planes, helicopters and drones will be able to transmit and receive coordinates and parameters of targets from ships, submarines and ground-based surveillance systems in real time. After that, the detected enemy objects will be destroyed by all available means. Thus, according to experts, the fleet will be able to create continuous damage zones with an area of hundreds or even thousands of kilometers. This automated control system is particularly effective in the case of using hypersonic systems "Zircon"and " Dagger".

    Target designation network

    As sources in the military Department told Izvestia, currently the automated control system for naval aviation (MA) is in a high degree of readiness. It is expected that its first samples will be delivered to the troops in the near future. According to the interlocutors of the publication, the novelty will combine information from various sources. The processed data will then be transmitted to the strike ships. Thanks to this interaction, the fleet will be able to create continuous damage zones with an area of hundreds or even thousands of kilometers.

    Earlier, the head of the MA and air defense of the black sea fleet, Colonel Sergei Saushkin, said that in the coming years, radical changes will occur in the automated control system, which will improve the quality of management by an order of magnitude.

    All modern and promising anti-ship missiles receive target designation and route before launch. They start looking for objects on their own only on the last leg of the flight, several tens of kilometers away. The ammunition includes its own relatively low-power homing head for this purpose for a short time.

    "To bring a long — range weapon system to the target area, a certain accuracy is required," military expert Viktor Murakhovsky explained to Izvestia. - Missile homing heads are limited in range and in the angle at which they can recognize an object. Just firing into the sea towards the target is a pointless waste of expensive weapons. There are certain requirements for issuing target designation for pointing ammunition at ship groups and individual ships. Keep in mind that they do not stand still. A typical connection covers dozens of kilometers in an hour. Therefore, the command post should have up-to-date information that allows you to bring shock weapons to the target area.

    According to the expert, that is why it is necessary to combine all the intelligence tools that are based in space, in the air, on ships and ground objects. They should collectively deal with the "opening" of ship groups. The unified information system ensures the operation of reconnaissance and strike circuits, Viktor Murakhovsky noted. And a variety of weapons systems can use reliable and up-to-date information from it: coastal missile systems, ship-based strike vehicles, and others.

    For submarines, such a system will be especially relevant, former submarine commander Igor Kurdin told Izvestia.

    — We use only the information that we "hear" with the help of sonar systems, and this is not a very long distance — - the expert explained. — Of course, we need a complete reconnaissance situation in as large a radius as possible, primarily in combat areas. Even in a submerged position, the command has the ability to call the submarine in case of an urgent need — including for transmitting intelligence. The aircraft's ability to collect information is much greater than that of a ship, but at the same time it has lower combat stability. Therefore, the detection and tracking system must be comprehensive.

    Aviation modernization

    As previously reported by Izvestia, the MA will soon receive Kinzhal hypersonic missile systems with a range of more than 1.5 thousand km. they will be the First to enter the Northern fleet. But the southern military district already has an experimental squadron of such aircraft. They regularly fly out on patrol over the Black and Caspian seas, and are used in exercises together with Tu-22M3 bombers carrying anti-ship missiles.

    A program is also underway to expand the capabilities of the su-30SM multi-role naval aviation fighters. They will be able to use a wider range of long-range missiles, including the most powerful X-32.

    Over the past eight years, AI has received 120 new and upgraded aircraft. Many of them are being re-equipped with a specialized computing subsystem SVP-24 "Hephaestus". It allows you to receive target designation from external sources and SNiP both surface and ground targets, even with unguided ammunition. It was reported that they were re-equipping the su-24M of the 43rd separate marine assault aviation regiment of the black sea fleet.

    Earlier, the defense Ministry reported on the ongoing development of a new patrol aircraft, which should replace the anti-submarine Tu-142M3. Representatives of the AI also announced plans to receive promising deck-based drones and ship-based radar patrol aircraft in the period from 2021 to 2030. They will also be able to work with automated control systems.

    The su-33 carrier-based fighters that were upgraded to the SVP-24 were used to attack ground targets of terrorists in Syria during the combat cruise of the Admiral Kuznetsov aircraft carrier in 2016. Tu-142M3 anti-submarine patrol aircraft were also seen in the Arab Republic, which are also equipped with this subsystem. They not only conducted reconnaissance, but also attacked extremist targets with bombs themselves.

    Sea scouts

    Since the advent of long-range anti-ship missiles, the Navy has had to solve the problem of targeting them. During the flight of subsonic ammunition to the maximum range, ships running at full speed could move several tens of kilometers and get out of the affected area. In order not to lose sight of the enemy and find him at a long distance, the aviation began to use reconnaissance aircraft with powerful radars.

    The Tu-95RTS turboprop was a scout and target designator for anti-ship missiles during the cold war. They were designed on the basis of long-range strategic bombers and released in a series of 53 vehicles. A huge aircraft weighing more than 180 tons with a crew of nine people could monitor aircraft carrier strike groups from a distance of hundreds of kilometers. Their duration of patrolling in the air reached a day.

    The Tu-95RK was used not only from the territory of the USSR. They also regularly patrolled from Soviet bases in Guinea, Vietnam, and Cuba. This made it possible to track the movement of NATO squadrons in the Atlantic, Pacific and Indian oceans. Such aircraft were actively used until the 1980s. Then they were gradually replaced by the space system of reconnaissance and target designation.

    https://z5h64q92x9.net/proxy_u/ru-en.en.d58c9b96-604049a6-8940a14a-74722d776562/https/vpk.name/news/489594_s_dalnim_pricelom_korabli_protivnika_zametyat_za_sotni_kilometrov.html

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    slasher


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    Post  slasher Sat Mar 13, 2021 1:55 am

    https://tvzvezda.ru/news/forces/content/20213121148-NAjVt.html
    Missile cruiser "Moskva" entered the Black Sea (Video)
    The crew will conduct training in air defense, in the use of electronic warfare, in the fight for survivability, as well as in all-round defense and protection of the ship during the passage by sea and when parked in the unprotected roadstead.

    "One of the stages of the exercise will be the development of the algorithm of the crew's actions with the conditional use of the ship's main missile system," the message says.

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    Tsavo Lion
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    Post  Tsavo Lion Tue Mar 16, 2021 10:52 pm

    BSF status, in case it wasn't posted.

    The oldest ship of the Navy returns to service

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    JohninMK
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    Post  JohninMK Sun Mar 21, 2021 12:54 pm

    Unusual redeployment

    WarshipCam
    @WarshipCam
    ·
    15h
    Russian Navy ships southbound off of Dover, England this morning - believed to be Ropucha-class landing ships RFS Minsk (127), RFS Kaliningrad (102), RFS Korolev (130) and Steregushchiy-class corvette RFS Boykiy (532) - March 20, 2021



    Russian Navy: Status and News #5 - Page 20 Ew88VuvWUAYyRvY?format=jpg&name=small
    kvs
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    Post  kvs Sun Mar 21, 2021 5:33 pm

    Looks like Erdo-turd got pissed off by the recent attack on his oil thieves. Thanks to Bidet he must feel that he can threaten to
    block Russian ships in the Bosporus.
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Mon Mar 22, 2021 4:18 am

    HATO exercises are more likely the problem... these boats will be more use in the BS and med supporting Russian operations in Syria than in the Northern Fleet.

    They can be used for transporting vehicles as well as cargo.
    Hole
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    Post  Hole Mon Mar 22, 2021 12:13 pm

    Russian Navy: Status and News #5 - Page 20 Exctsi10

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    George1
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    Post  George1 Tue Mar 23, 2021 1:28 pm

    "Sudan, Syria or the Black Sea": Three BDKs of the Baltic Fleet accompanied by the corvette "Boyky" entered the Atlantic
    Today, 13: 12
    34

    Three large landing ships (BDK) from the Baltic fleet accompanied by the Boikiy corvette, they passed the English Channel and entered the Atlantic. This was reported by the British media, citing data from the country's Royal Navy.

    Three large landing ships of the Baltic Fleet at once - "Minsk", "Kaliningrad" and "Korolev", as well as the corvette "Boykiy" began a long voyage, leaving the Baltic at the end of last week. The group passed the English Channel and entered the Atlantic. The P-8A Poseidon anti-submarine aircraft of the Royal Air Force, which was taking off from Lossiemouth airbase in Scotland, monitored the Russian corvette and large landing craft during their passage through the Danish straits. Further, the baton was intercepted by the ships of the British Navy.

    The press service of the fleet refused to comment on this information, the Ministry of Defense also does not report the tasks of the group of ships of the Baltic Fleet, and the British military learned about the ships leaving the Atlantic.

    It is not excluded that three large landing ships, accompanied by a corvette, are on their way to Port Sudan in the Red Sea, where it is planned to build a logistics center for the Russian Navy. Most likely, any materials or equipment required for construction is being delivered to the BDK in Sudan.

    Although it is not excluded the option of using the BDK in the "Syrian Express" or for performing any other tasks in the Mediterranean or Black Seas.

    Note that another group of Baltic Fleet ships is currently in the Red Sea, which went on a long voyage back on December 16, 2020. It includes the Stoyky corvette, the Kola medium tanker and the Yakov Grebelsky sea tug. On March 19, 2021, a detachment of Russian ships completed a business visit to Port Sudan and left for the Red Sea to complete tasks.

    https://en.topwar.ru/181179-sudan-sirija-ili-chernoe-more-tri-bdk-baltflota-v-soprovozhdenii-korveta-bojkij-vyshli-v-dalnij-pohod.html

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    franco
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    Post  franco Wed Mar 24, 2021 12:18 pm

    Foreign bulk carrier collides with Russian military tanker Cola in the Gulf of Suez

    In the Gulf of Suez of the Red Sea, a collision occurred between the Russian military tanker Cola and a bulk carrier flying the flag of Barbados. This was reported by the press service of the Baltic Fleet .

    As follows from the message, the foreign dry cargo ship "Ark Royal" violated the rules of navigation and touched the stern part of the Russian military tanker "Kola". As a result of the collision, there were no casualties on the Kolya, no fuel spills, the tanker continues to carry out the task of escorting the Stoyky corvette.

    On March 23, 2021 at 8:03 (Moscow time) the sea-going dry cargo ship "Ark Royal", flying the flag of Barbados in the Gulf of Suez (the middle part of the Red Sea), violated the rules of navigation and allowed a bulk on the stern part of the Baltic Fleet tanker "Kola" (. ..) Tanker "Kola" does not need any help and continues to move according to the transition plan
    - the message says.

    The captain of the dry-cargo ship "Ark Royal" admitted his guilt in the incident, a sea protest was declared to him.

    Earlier it was reported that the military tanker "Kola" was accompanying the corvette "Stoyky" of the Baltic Fleet, performing combat missions in the Red Sea. The detachment left the Baltic on December 16, 2020, during the long voyage, twice replenished stocks in Oman, made a friendly visit to Port Sudan, where a logistical support point will be built. In February, the Steadfast and Kola participated in joint exercises with the Iranian Navy.

    https://6b6gjclcha6ibjpa45wvvqdamu--topwar-ru.translate.goog/181184-inostrannyj-suhogruz-stolknulsja-s-rossijskim-voennym-tankerom-kola-v-sujeckom-zalive.html

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    franco
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    Post  franco Sun Mar 28, 2021 1:02 pm

    Goals and Objectives of the Russian Navy: Strategic Deterrence

    What tasks should the Russian Navy solve? And what should be its composition for solving these problems? Let's try to consider these issues in stages, based on the importance of the tasks to be solved.

    Challenges and opportunities

    Exactly so - tasks, taking into account the possibility of their solution. It makes no sense to pose a problem if its solution is obviously unattainable. For example, a symmetrical opposition to the American naval forces (Navy) with conventional weapons, and even at a distance from the borders of the Russian Federation - this task is obviously impossible due to the incomparable financial and technical capabilities, as well as the peculiarities of the geographical location of the United States and Russia.

    There is no special sense in the task so beloved by many as "demonstration of the flag", if, of course, it means beautiful but useless trips of 3.5 ships to the other end of the world, and not a real force capable of influencing the situation in the area of ​​its presence.

    The use of NK for trips to "distant countries" in conditions when in fact they have practically no opportunity to carry out a real combat mission there, nothing more than "show off"

    Then what tasks should the Russian Navy solve?

    NOTE: Another article in the Russian media concerning future Navy needs, full article in link:

    https://6b6gjclcha6ibjpa45wvvqdamu--topwar-ru.translate.goog/181222-celi-i-zadachi-rossijskogo-vmf-strategicheskoe-sderzhivanie.html
    miketheterrible
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    Post  miketheterrible Sun Mar 28, 2021 4:09 pm

    When Russian Corvettes have better weapons than frigates of NATO, I would say they can compensate.

    So long as Russia increases such Corvettes, frigates and subs (can be SSK's), they can project power. Especially if they station such ships at new established bases (Sudan and Syria).

    Those big fancy ships are nice easy targets for anti ship missiles and drones. So the Russians are going another route - small, fast and heavy puncher. It will be cheaper and better in long run. Big ships are nice to have in order to launch a bunch of missiles, but few of them is fine for Russia

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    Rodion_Romanovic
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    Post  Rodion_Romanovic Sun Mar 28, 2021 5:27 pm

    Isos wrote:Nakhimov is almost finished and they decided this now which could mean they are not happy with the upgrade.

    Time and cost probably close to building a new cruiser.

    PtG could end up being scraped too and a new class could arrive sooner than expected.

    PtG has at least 20 years of service in front of her. It is possible that they could do a less extensive modernisation than the one for Admiral Nakhimov but it makes no sense to scrap it. Furthermore the shipyard involved with her overhaul/upgrade is not one of those that will be building new frigates (22350) destroyers (22350M) or nuclear cruisers (leader class) or the one that will be building aircraft carriers so it is just a matter of time and money.
    Of course personnel and resources pay a role on this, but I believe PtG modernisation will not affect negatively the plans for building new long range ships.



    lancelot
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    Post  lancelot Mon Mar 29, 2021 12:36 am

    Rodion_Romanovic wrote:PtG has at least 20 years of service in front of her. It is possible that they could do a less extensive modernisation than the one for Admiral Nakhimov but it makes no sense to scrap it. Furthermore the shipyard involved with her overhaul/upgrade is not one of those that will be building new frigates (22350) destroyers (22350M) or nuclear cruisers (leader class) or the one that will be building aircraft carriers so it is just a matter of time and money.
    Of course personnel and resources pay a role on this, but I believe PtG modernisation will not affect negatively the plans for building new long range ships.

    I doubt the modernization of PtG would take the same amount of time as the Nakhimov's. I wouldn't be surprised if they could do it in half the time.

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    PapaDragon
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    Post  PapaDragon Mon Mar 29, 2021 12:56 am

    lancelot wrote:...I doubt the modernization of PtG would take the same amount of time as the Nakhimov's. I wouldn't be surprised if they could do it in half the time.

    They know that thing in and out and have been maintaining it perfectly 24/7

    Plus they have upgrade instruction manual now, no more learning on the go

    It's half the time easy

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    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Mon Mar 29, 2021 4:37 am

    miketheterrible wrote:When Russian Corvettes have better weapons than frigates of NATO, I would say they can compensate.

    So long as Russia increases such Corvettes, frigates and subs (can be SSK's), they can project power. Especially if they station such ships at new established bases (Sudan and Syria).

    Those big fancy ships are nice easy targets for anti ship missiles and drones.  So the Russians are going another route - small, fast and heavy puncher.  It will be cheaper and better in long run.  Big ships are nice to have in order to launch a bunch of missiles, but few of them is fine for Russia

    If you look at the Soviet Navy from the cold war they didn't really have Frigates... the Krivaks were mainly MVD or KBG operated vessels... they had a lot of single purpose corvettes with torpedos or anti ship missiles but they were too small to be more than single use boats.

    Their current design Corvettes actually are rather versatile... no cold war Soviet ship of any size could carry conventional land attack cruise missiles... a modern corvette with a UKSK launch system can carry a mix of anti sub and anti ship and land attack missiles at once and their communications and electronics are actually better than those fitted to Kirov class ships, though obviously their sensors are much smaller.

    The point is that the new corvettes are more capable and more versatile and their new Frigates are just scaled up versions with more missile tubes and bigger radars and decent sonar systems.

    One corvette might be useless against a HATO sub because it lacks a decent sonar, but a frigate and two or three corvettes each carrying anti sub missiles can work together with onboard helicopters as a very effective networked force that works together to hunt and kill submarines... and with sea bed sonar arrays and land based MPAs they will be even more capable along with satellite based heat sensing satellites that can detect sub wakes on the water surface as they move stirring up the cold water at depths as it moves.

    The point is that production of corvettes and frigates needs to get under way and they can serve in and around Russia for all of Russias needs.

    I would expect a few foreign navies will be looking at them thinking about a purchase too.

    They have started building two 40K ton helicopter carriers... their corvettes and frigates are amazing compared with their own cold war equivalents and even today with HATO equivalents on one on one terms... HATO has the advantage of numbers and cooperation between numbers of navies.

    The new Corvettes and Frigates have decent self defence capacity but they are too small to protect other ships... they would essentially only be able to protect themselves.

    A destroyer and a cruiser sized ship is needed because these ships are large enough to operate at distance from Russia for useful periods of time... a corvette or frigate on the other hand will just get good at what they are doing and have to return to be replaced with another ship and spend two or three weeks on station but perhaps two weeks to get there and two weeks to get home for their 6-7 week endurance. A bigger ship... an upgraded older ship for now, but later custom designed modern ships can remain for much longer periods... support ships can bring relief crews for very long period operations if needed, but destroyers and cruisers are what you need to support most long range long period operations with helicopter landing ships and such operations need AWACS and fighter CAP support to make them effective and safe.

    Subs don't project power.

    What the UK subs did in the Falklands war shows what limited systems they are... they hide and hunt, but either kill or don't kill.

    It was the threat of the SSN that prevented Argentina from deploying their navy which made british SSNs very very valuable, but equally the Brits were rather constantly afraid the Argentinians would use their SSKs to try to sink ships and subs so their carriers hung back from the islands and continuously swept for subs to protect their carriers... most of the ships in their fleet had poor anti sub capability.

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    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Mon Mar 29, 2021 4:42 am

    They know that thing in and out and have been maintaining it perfectly 24/7

    Plus they have upgrade instruction manual now, no more learning on the go

    It's half the time easy

    The whole idea behind having modular weapons and sensors etc etc and fully multirole ships instead of several different specialist types was to enable mass production to be faster and cheaper because they can all be the same and they should be able to produce them in numbers quickly and efficiently once everything is proven to work properly and everything is Russian made and not subject to sanctions.

    Getting to that point now so hopefully large orders for Corvettes and Frigates... the corvettes are small so hard to make them fully multirole so because 5 different fleets have different needs and conditions then having a couple of different corvette types makes sense, but frigates are big enough that one frigate type should do.

    And of course the new destroyers and new cruisers should just be one design each... probably similar and the latter a scaled up version of the former with bigger radar and bigger sonar and S-500s and ready to defend the entire group of ships they operate just like S-400 batteries defend an area of a circle 800km across from enemy airpower.
    Hole
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    Post  Hole Tue Mar 30, 2021 8:58 pm

    Russian Navy: Status and News #5 - Page 20 Exu2aq10
    Russian Navy: Status and News #5 - Page 20 Exu2bh10
    Russian Navy: Status and News #5 - Page 20 Exu2dq10
    Eyes and ears for the Med Flottilla.

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    Arrow


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    Post  Arrow Wed Mar 31, 2021 10:45 am

    GarryB wrote:

    It was the threat of the SSN that prevented Argentina from deploying their navy which made british SSNs very very valuable, but equally the Brits were rather constantly afraid the Argentinians would use their SSKs to try to sink ships and subs so their carriers hung back from the islands and continuously swept for subs to protect their carriers... most of the ships in their fleet had poor anti sub capability.

    The Russian navy also has a problem with the small number of nuclear submarines. Russia currently has two modern 885 / M and a few 971,945 units. Additionally, several 949As. Compared to the US underwater fleet, this is not much.

    Only 688I USA ships have 23 submarines, 688 submarines with VLS another 8. You can add the older 688Is. Russia only has a few submarines of tier 688I or better. This group also includes 18 Virginia class and 3 Seawolf. This makes over 50 SSNs. When you count your allies, there's even more. With such a disproportion, Western forces can mess up a lot even in the vicinity of Russia, especially the Arctic, Barents. Russia does not have the strength and means to fight such powerful SSN forces even in the vicinity of its territorial waters. Western SSNs may track and attempt to destroy Russian frigates and Corvettes operating in the northern waters. Such an advantage in the SSN may significantly hinder the Russian defensive actions in the areas of their borders and the protection of their SSBN.

    I wonder if Russia will order more 885M submarines. It shouldn't end up in a series of 9 units.
    lyle6
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    Post  lyle6 Wed Mar 31, 2021 11:55 am

    The USN has a much bigger problem at hand: the rapid and irreversible decline of its available human capital. Give it a few years and the superior Assabiyah Russian sailors should mop the floor with the Great Mutt Fleet.

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    Hole
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    Post  Hole Wed Mar 31, 2021 12:09 pm

    1. Half of the american subs are in urgent need of maintenance.
    2. Most of these subs are bound to protect carriers/assauls ships.
    3. They have to keep at least 2/3 of the subs to "protect" them against China, Iran and all those other evil-doers aound the world.

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    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Thu Apr 01, 2021 3:49 am

    The Russian navy also has a problem with the small number of nuclear submarines. Russia currently has two modern 885 / M and a few 971,945 units. Additionally, several 949As. Compared to the US underwater fleet, this is not much.

    Why do you think that is a problem?

    Half or all of the current US submarines have substandard steel hulls so operating in the arctic is going to be literally russian roulette for them.

    At best Russia will have one or two carrier groups to operate and a few areas of sea around its coastline where it would benefit from having nuclear sub support... Russia does not have to police the world and be able to interdict at a moments notice... it does not need hundreds of submarines.

    It also has the enormous advantage of having SSKs that can operate in shallow waters much more cheaply and efficiently than SSNs can which is a serious gap in Americas inventory.

    Only 688I USA ships have 23 submarines, 688 submarines with VLS another 8. You can add the older 688Is. Russia only has a few submarines of tier 688I or better.

    In shallow waters near Russia a Kilo class SSN is quieter and can carry a much wider array of useful weapons... the LA class carries torpedos and Tomahawks... big fricken deal...

    Late model Victor class SSNs are already as good as the LA class.

    This group also includes 18 Virginia class and 3 Seawolf. This makes over 50 SSNs. When you count your allies, there's even more.

    That is true, but who cares? With modern anti sub sonars and sea bed arrays how long would those noisy nukes last in Russian waters anyway. More to the point what can they do... they only have tomahawks and torpedos... subsonic easy to intercept missiles even a single TOR battery would stop the entire inventory from a LA class sub, and with regards to torpedos they have all sorts of systems to deal with those too...

    With such a disproportion, Western forces can mess up a lot even in the vicinity of Russia, especially the Arctic, Barents. Russia does not have the strength and means to fight such powerful SSN forces even in the vicinity of its territorial waters

    I would say they are rather well equipped and getting better all the time, but the response to a US sub sinking a Russian ship in the arctic wont be hunting down that sub... it will be directing nuclear weapons at US and EU targets... you do understand sinking some ones ships is an act of war...

    The best force to fight a powerful SSN force on your doorstep is an SSK like a Lada class with modern state of the art electronics and systems but also quiet electric operation...

    The only way those US subs could find a Lada is with active sonar... and then they suddenly stop being hard targets too.

    Western SSNs may track and attempt to destroy Russian frigates and Corvettes operating in the northern waters. Such an advantage in the SSN may significantly hinder the Russian defensive actions in the areas of their borders and the protection of their SSBN.

    It is funny you talk about submarines... you do realise that 10 years ago it would be AEGIS class cruisers and carrier groups dominating the waters around Russia... but now they are no longer useful.... trillions of dollars of US and HATO surface fleets rendered useless because Russian corvettes and frigates can carry supersonic and soon hypersonic anti ship missiles that US and HATO defences can't deal with...

    Lada and then Kalina class SSKs are an ideal answer to big expensive western subs threatening Russian borders...

    I wonder if Russia will order more 885M submarines. It shouldn't end up in a series of 9 units.

    I wonder how pro US and pro HATO fanboys are feeling right now with their magnificent trillion dollar fleets reduced to useless and having to rely on trillion dollar submarines to threaten corvettes and frigates.... hilarious... talk about Russia getting value for money...

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    SeigSoloyvov
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    Post  SeigSoloyvov Thu Apr 01, 2021 6:42 am

    Hole wrote:1. Half of the american subs are in urgent need of maintenance.
    2. Most of these subs are bound to protect carriers/assauls ships.
    3. They have to keep at least 2/3 of the subs to "protect" them against China, Iran and all those other evil-doers aound the world.

    I didn't realize you had access to classified information about US Nuclear Submarine maintenance...

    Oh wait...you don't?

    Oh right you're talking straight out your ass~.

    The moronic shit people say on this forum, its like a bad comedy show.

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