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    Russian Navy: Status and News #5

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    Post  GarryB on Thu Dec 10, 2020 3:39 am

    How tiny the people appear on some of these enormous ships...
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    Post  PapaDragon on Thu Dec 10, 2020 11:30 pm


    Russian Navy to take part in Pakistan’s AMAN-2021 drills, expected to have NATO countries in attendance

    https://www.rt.com/russia/509271-navy-drills-pakistan-nato/

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    Isos
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    Post  Isos on Tue Dec 15, 2020 10:26 pm

    IMO those old cruisers would be pretty useful today. Put 4 pantsir, 6-8 57mm guns and 12-24 buks on them for AD so that it intercept enemy missiles and send it close to enemy formation then use the big guns to fire from 60km away.

    It could even go near enemy port and blow everything inside.

    Russian Navy: Status and News #5 - Page 17 Eptxns10
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    Post  PapaDragon on Tue Dec 15, 2020 10:41 pm

    Isos wrote:IMO those old cruisers would be pretty useful today. Put 4 pantsir, 6-8 57mm guns and 12-24 buks on them for AD so that it intercept enemy missiles and send it close to enemy formation then use the big guns to fire from 60km away.

    It could even go near enemy port and blow everything inside.

    [img]https://i.servimg.com/u/f71/19/35/56/92/eptxns10.jpg

    They are older than dirt

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    Isos
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    Post  Isos on Tue Dec 15, 2020 11:17 pm

    Sure they would never be modernized. I was just saying they would still be a dangerous foe with minimal upgrades to their weapons.
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    Post  Big_Gazza on Wed Dec 16, 2020 2:22 am

    Isos wrote:IMO those old cruisers would be pretty useful today. Put 4 pantsir, 6-8 57mm guns and 12-24 buks on them for AD so that it intercept enemy missiles and send it close to enemy formation then use the big guns to fire from 60km away.

    It could even go near enemy port and blow everything inside.


    Sverdlov-class cruisers aren't levithans like the USN Iowa class battleships. They have comparitively paulty 6" main guns as opposed to 16", hugely inferior armour and less than 1/3 of the displacement.

    The best use for the Kutuzov is as a museum piece for generations of the Russian public to enjoy.
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    Post  GarryB on Wed Dec 16, 2020 5:25 am

    Replace the 152mm guns with Coalition turrets and get 70km range guided shells with the promise of 180km rounds for the future... and of course a 2KT shell as well...

    I would agree to let them retire...

    I suspect the upgraded Kirovs might have Coalition fitted anyway...
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    Post  LMFS on Sat Dec 19, 2020 12:41 am

    "This is a beautiful move": Russia has found justice for NATO destroyers in the Black Sea
    08:00 18.12.2020

    MOSCOW, December 18 - RIA Novosti, Andrey Kots. Determine the type of target, its parameters, find out the course and nationality - the Ministry of Defense is testing in the Black Sea the newest system of automatic illumination of the surface situation "Strategy". This development of the Research Institute for Long-Range Radio Communication (NIIDAR) will allow Russia to significantly secure its southern borders and prevent violations of the state border. "Strategy" covers all the means of tracking available to the Black Sea Fleet. About the system and its capabilities - in the material RIA Novosti.

    The sea is in full view

    Most modern maritime monitoring systems are, as a rule, radar stations tied into a common network and scanning the sea for many kilometers from the coastline. All information about the movements of ships is transmitted to a single center, where decisions are made. For example, about the interception of the intruder.

    “Strategy” is also based on the principle of radar, ”Viktor Murakhovsky, editor-in-chief of the magazine“ Arsenal of the Fatherland ”, explains to RIA Novosti. - It automatically determines the coordinates of all ships and vessels in the coverage area in real time. Draws the so-called signatures - this is an individual portrait of a ship at sea, by which one can recognize its type and affiliation. And, of course, it records the main parameters of the movement: course, speed. As far as I know, a similar system is being deployed in the Arctic zone. "

    According to the expert, "Strategy" is unique in that it combines the capabilities of all radar stations, without exception, monitoring the Black Sea, both onshore and on ships. And to monitor remote areas, over-the-horizon radars can be connected to it, scanning an area within a radius of more than a thousand kilometers. The key feature of the new technology is high automation.

    “Today, specialists from the so-called Center for Combat Command of the Fleets are engaged in monitoring the surface situation,” says Murakhovsky. “This is a structure in many ways from the Soviet era. Operators process huge amounts of data, often manually. Previously, it was the same, for example, in air defense, where there was a special position - a flatbed player. They marked all changes in the air situation on the screens with a transparent map with markers. Now computers are doing this. So in the new system, automation will take over most of the routine. "
    According to the developers' assurances, "Strategy" will be able to use not only radar, but also satellite and ground-based automatic information systems, internal channels for transmitting object information of the fleet. In addition, it will interact in a two-way mode with the technical means and complexes from which it receives data.

    NIIDAR specialists obviously have enough experience in this area - they were the ones who created the Voronezh-DM missile attack warning system stations, the Sunflower, Container over-the-horizon radars and many others put into service.

    Often

    The issue of controlling the situation in the Black Sea is by no means idle for Russia. In recent years, NATO pennants have come here regularly. At the end of September, Chief of the Main Operations Directorate of the General Staff Sergei Rudskoy said that in 2020 the warships of the North Atlantic Alliance were in the Black Sea for a third longer than in 2019.
    NATO activity peaked in July, when the Sea Breeze 2020 exercise was held. They were attended by about two thousand military personnel from the USA, Ukraine, Bulgaria, Georgia, Norway, Romania, Spain and Turkey, more than 25 ships, as well as aviation.

    "Up to 40 percent of these ships are carriers of high-precision long-range weapons," Rudskoy said. "In particular, the US Navy destroyer Roosvelt, capable of carrying up to 90 Tomahawk cruise missiles, has repeatedly entered the Black Sea."

    In fact, the only thing that keeps the NATO navy from constantly maneuvering in the Black Sea is the Montreux Convention, signed in 1936. The agreement defines the status of the Bosporus and Dardanelles straits, and also limits the presence of warships of non-Black Sea states in the water area for a period of three weeks. In addition, the convention provides that up to nine such ships with a total tonnage of no more than 30 thousand tons can be simultaneously in the Black Sea.

    Most of all foreign navies are interested, of course, in Crimea. Ships of Western countries have repeatedly approached the peninsula, reconnaissance aircraft and drones make regular flights over the borders of the Russian airspace. The alliance is trying to determine the location of military installations in Crimea, as well as to understand at what frequencies communications, navigation and electronic warfare systems operate.

    Regional advantage
    The United States and its allies do not hide the fact that they are acutely worried about Russia's military capabilities in the Black Sea.
    In December, the American strategic research center RAND even modeled the confrontation between the Black Sea Fleet and the NATO navies in the region, creating something like a board game. It turned out that in this water area Russia will defeat any coalition, even if the United States acts together with Bulgaria, Romania, Turkey, Ukraine and Georgia.

    Moscow really has something to respond to aggression - the naval forces deployed in the region are regularly replenished with new ships and submarines with powerful strike systems.
    In addition, in the Crimea itself, which is often called a "land aircraft carrier", an impressive army group is located, equipped with the most modern air defense systems and anti-ship missile systems capable of striking sea targets at a considerable distance from the coast. They are mobile and can quickly change position, which makes them difficult to detect and destroy.

    American analysts have come to the conclusion that Russia will keep the Black Sea under control, even without entering into an armed conflict with NATO countries. For this, Moscow has an impressive arsenal of non-lethal weapons. RAND experts include psychological attacks, cyber operations, information strikes, and electronic warfare

    https://ria.ru/20201218/strategiya-1589760388.html
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    Post  flamming_python on Sat Dec 19, 2020 11:15 pm

    I didn't even realize there was still a Sverdlov-class that hasn't been long ago scrapped

    Yikes!
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    Post  walle83 on Sat Dec 19, 2020 11:40 pm

    flamming_python wrote:I didn't even realize there was still a Sverdlov-class that hasn't been long ago scrapped

    Yikes!

    Its the Mikhail Kutuzov, a museum ship. The last ship of the class.

    A few remained in service until the early 90s as modified command ships until they were scrapped.


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    PapaDragon
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    Post  PapaDragon on Sat Dec 19, 2020 11:47 pm

    flamming_python wrote:I didn't even realize there was still a Sverdlov-class that hasn't been long ago scrapped

    Yikes!

    Scraping a museum ship kinda defeats the whole purpose of having a museum ship in the first place


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    Post  Isos on Sun Dec 20, 2020 12:18 am

    PapaDragon wrote:
    flamming_python wrote:I didn't even realize there was still a Sverdlov-class that hasn't been long ago scrapped

    Yikes!

    Scraping a museum ship kinda defeats the whole purpose of having a museum ship in the first place



    If it doesn't make money and cost too much to stay afloat they will use it as a practice target.

    Would be nice to see what a zirkon could do against an empty armored ship.
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    Post  PapaDragon on Sun Dec 20, 2020 2:58 am

    Isos wrote:
    PapaDragon wrote:
    flamming_python wrote:I didn't even realize there was still a Sverdlov-class that hasn't been long ago scrapped

    Yikes!

    Scraping a museum ship kinda defeats the whole purpose of having a museum ship in the first place



    If it doesn't make money and cost too much to stay afloat they will use it as a practice target.

    Would be nice to see what a zirkon could do against an empty armored ship.

    It's a museum ship, why would you use it as a practice target?

    And what useful information could be gained from using Zircon on it? No ship in service has armor

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    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB on Sun Dec 20, 2020 5:25 am

    They brought a few out of retirement to test the idea of naval gunfire support for landed forces... obviously on a much smaller scale than the US with their Iowa class battleships.

    The naval 152mm guns obviously lacked range to be effective, which is probably why the navy got involved in the Coalition gun programme.

    A 70km range guided shell is rather more valuable due to its low cost and high persistence... a naval 152mm gun could probably fire at more than 20 rounds a minute with each shell independently guided to a particular ground coordinate... the ammo handling equipment on a ship should allow a much better rate of fire than any land based vehicle.

    Plans to extend firing range to 180km would make them even more attractive and useful, while being 152mm calibre it has plenty of room for all sorts of guidance systems to be used... the width alone allows for a rather efficient HEAT warhead to be used against the heaviest armour as well.

    The obvious bonus is that money spent developing these new rounds leads to benefits for both the navy and the army who will both be using this ammo and these guns.

    The Bereg 130mm coastal defence gun could benefit from the range boost and accuracy and will increase the numbers of shells the navy will acquire making it even more affordable.

    Some sort of unified Navy coastal plus Army long range theatre artillery vehicle could be developed for special operations.

    The Bereg is a group of vehicles designed to protect coastlines from enemy landing forces... a few gun vehicles and command vehicles and accommodation vehicles like a self contained mobile artillery force... something similar could be designed for the Army for use in conflicts like Syria... imagine a precision artillery strike able to hit targets anywhere inside a circle 360km across within a few minutes.

    In Vietnam the US used fire bases, where artillery could support operations near them within the range of the tube artillery. With a range of 180km these vehicles could deliver precision fire 24/7 fairly cheaply and effectively... they have GLONASS guided munitions.... it would not be that hard to add laser homing seekers to their noses so the unit that called in the strike could lase the target they are having problems with ...
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    Post  GarryB on Sun Dec 20, 2020 5:27 am

    A few remained in service until the early 90s as modified command ships until they were scrapped.

    Careful... saying they were made in to command ships might lead to someone here claiming they will operate VSTOL fighters from them.... Twisted Evil

    Sorry... couldn't resist... Embarassed
    Isos
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    Post  Isos on Sun Dec 20, 2020 11:23 am

    PapaDragon wrote:
    Isos wrote:
    PapaDragon wrote:
    flamming_python wrote:I didn't even realize there was still a Sverdlov-class that hasn't been long ago scrapped

    Yikes!

    Scraping a museum ship kinda defeats the whole purpose of having a museum ship in the first place



    If it doesn't make money and cost too much to stay afloat they will use it as a practice target.

    Would be nice to see what a zirkon could do against an empty armored ship.

    It's a museum ship, why would you use it as a practice target?

    And what useful information could be gained from using Zircon on it? No ship in service has armor


    As a museum ship it needs to attract visitors which need to pay to see it. No vistor no money and you even loose money on maintaining it. Then the easy way to get ride of it is to sunk it.

    Arkeigh burkes are full of kevlar. Thry are not easy to sink.
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    Post  PapaDragon on Sun Dec 20, 2020 4:47 pm

    Isos wrote:As a museum ship it needs to attract visitors which need to pay to see it. No vistor no money and you even loose money on maintaining it. Then the easy way to get ride of it is to sunk it. ...

    If one day visitors are ever barred from visiting this ship and paying for tickets and they enforce that ban for at least a decade then a need to dispose of the ship might possibly arise

    Disposal however would most certainly be done by selling it for scrap because high quality steel pays good money

    What they definitely will not do is to use it as target especially since no useful information can be gained because no ship in service today has armor



    Isos wrote:...Arkeigh burkes are full of kevlar. Thry are not easy to sink.

    Prepare to have your mind blown: kevlar is not metal, it's fabric

    This is how kevlar looks like:

    Russian Navy: Status and News #5 - Page 17 KEVLAR-Carbon%20Hybrid-Yellow-2
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    Post  GarryB on Mon Dec 21, 2020 5:35 am

    Kevlar is a strong fabric but still not strong enough to hold back an anti ship missile.

    Normally it is present to stop spalling... where near penetrations result in layers of armour on the inside of the armour plate where the impact occurred results in flakes of metal flying off the inner armour plate and bouncing around inside the target.

    The British kept their rifled tank guns specifically because of the HESH round which was a large soft HE round that flattened against an armoured target and then exploded. The shockwaves passed through the armour... no matter how thick... and caused spalling which could kill the crew and start fires with ammo and fuel without penetrating the armour.

    Spall liners were used to counter that effect... and 100 years ago if they had kevlar armour they could have used it on bolted and riveted tanks to prevent bolts and rivets bouncing around inside the tank at lethal speeds when the armour was hit by solid rounds that nearly penetrated the armour.

    The Kevlar is not used as armour in itself, just used to stop spall and fragments from being so lethal with an impact and should not really be counted as armour.

    The 5.45x18mm Soviet pistol bullet has the power of a .22lr rimfire rifle round and its pointed bullet can penetrate 32 layers of kevlar armour... armour that would stop a much bigger heavier slower round like a 45 or a softnose round...
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    Post  Big_Gazza on Mon Dec 21, 2020 7:44 am

    Isos wrote:As a museum ship it needs to attract visitors which need to pay to see it. No vistor no money and you even loose money on maintaining it. Then the easy way to get ride of it is to sunk it.

    Don't be a luddite. The Kutuzov is one of the few surviving examples of an armoured big-gun cruiser anywhere on the planet. Its a priceless piece of Russian military history. Next you will want to scrap the Aurora? Suspect

    As an ex-Brit I was always utterly disgusted that the kiddie-fiddler toffs who run the place couldn't find the money to preserve even one of the RNs great dreadnoughts, yet the Yanks have several. I'm glad the russians had the sense to preserve one of the Sverdlovs.
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    Post  SeigSoloyvov on Tue Dec 22, 2020 9:17 am

    Isos wrote:
    PapaDragon wrote:
    flamming_python wrote:I didn't even realize there was still a Sverdlov-class that hasn't been long ago scrapped

    Yikes!

    Scraping a museum ship kinda defeats the whole purpose of having a museum ship in the first place



    If it doesn't make money and cost too much to stay afloat they will use it as a practice target.

    Would be nice to see what a zirkon could do against an empty armored ship.

    This is some next level stupid.....

    The Sverdovs only had armor in specific points on the decks and belts, they were not fully armored only battleships would have full armor belts and decks.

    Even then the armor they had was nothing special and was comparable to WW2 era Heavy Crusiers.

    So using a Zircon would be pointless against such a ship since the armor doesn't cover the complete deck oh and the ship is so old its sturcutal intergirty would not be anything like it was when it was first built.

    But to be the funniest thing is how you just proposed the Russians missile their own Naval History lol!

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    Post  SeigSoloyvov on Tue Dec 22, 2020 9:21 am

    Big_Gazza wrote:
    Isos wrote:As a museum ship it needs to attract visitors which need to pay to see it. No vistor no money and you even loose money on maintaining it. Then the easy way to get ride of it is to sunk it.

    Don't be a luddite.  The Kutuzov is one of the few surviving examples of an armoured big-gun cruiser anywhere on the planet.  Its a priceless piece of Russian military history.  Next you will want to scrap the Aurora?  Suspect

    As an ex-Brit I was always utterly disgusted that the kiddie-fiddler toffs who run the place couldn't find the money to preserve even one of the RNs great dreadnoughts, yet the Yanks have several.  I'm glad the russians had the sense to preserve one of the Sverdlovs.

    big-gun cruisers is considered cruisers with 8inch and above guns.

    Servdlovs were more light cruisers in terms of their main guns.
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    Post  AMCXXL on Wed Dec 23, 2020 3:46 am

    https://function.mil.ru/news_page/country/more.htm?id=12331191@egNews

    The Minister of Defense of the Russian Federation, Army General Sergei Shoigu, presented an annual report at the meeting of the Collegium of the Ministry of Defense (excerpts from his speech):

    Regarding the Russian Navy:

    The Navy received 7 surface shps, 10 combat vessels, 10 support ships and vessels.

    The Navy received two submarines, including the leading nuclear submarine of the Borey-A project, "Prince Vladimir"
    , armed with Bulava ballistic missiles with a modern complex of means to overcome missile defense, it was accepted into the Navy

    As for the number of coastal missile systems, "Ball" and "Bastion" this year reached 74% of the need.

    A motorized rifle division and a coastal missile brigade have been formed into the Navy's combat composition.

    The headquarters of the Black Sea Fleet was rebuilt with a deep modernization of the control systems.

    In Makhachkala, items from the Caspian Flotilla's military infrastructure were commissioned, including the mooring front.

    At its main base, Kaspiysk, the discharge of the north and south breakwaters with a length of about three kilometers has been completed.


    The use of advance financing makes it possible to solve the problem of shortage of funds for the construction of ships in the distant sea area and to guarantee a reduction in the delivery time of modern aircraft.

    Currently, the construction of 16 and the modernization of 19 surface ships in the distant sea area is underway, and next year state contracts will be signed for another 6.

    In total, taking into account current state contracts, the total number of warships built and modernized in the far-sea area will be 41 units.


    The Navy conducted a large-scale interspecific exercise "Ocean Shield".

    The group created has demonstrated the ability to effectively carry out tasks to protect our national interests in the waters of three oceans and nine seas, including the Northern Sea Route.

    The ships and vessels of the Navy made 140 cruises to all the strategically important areas of the World Ocean, 122 visits and commercial stopovers were made to the ports of 28 foreign countries.

    At the MTO point of the Navy in Tartus, the reconstruction and modernization of the barracks and the housing stock and the material and technical base were carried out.


    For 2021 it is planned:

    Nuclear forces: Adopt two nuclear-powered submarines from the Borey-A project: Prince Oleg and Generalissimo Suvorov, equipped with Bulava ballistic missiles, into the fleet

    Conventional forces: Adopt 4 submarines, 6 surface ships, 22 combat and support vessels in the Navy



    From all this it follows:

    Apparently, the SSGN "Kazan" will not be accepted before the end of the year but in early 2021

    In 2021 6 submarines will be received;

    - 2 SSBN class Borey Pr. 955A: "Principe Oleg" and "Generalissimo Suvorov"
    - 2 SSGN class Yasen Pr. 885M: "Kazan" and "Novosibirsk"
    - 2 SSK class Varshavyanka Pr. 636.3 (Improved Kilo): "Magadan" and "Ufa"

    With the exception of "Kazan", everyone else will go to the Pacific Fleet, which will mean a significant increase in the combat capacity of this formation.[/b]

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    Post  George1 on Thu Dec 24, 2020 11:13 pm

    In accordance with the plan for the rotation of the forces of the Mediterranean grouping of the Russian Navy, on December 24, 2020, the Admiral Grigorovich frigate of project 11356R of the Red Banner Black Sea Fleet of the Russian VIF passed the Bosphorus Strait heading towards the Syrian shores.

    Russian Navy: Status and News #5 - Page 17 40637910
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    Post  Tsavo Lion on Fri Dec 25, 2020 3:23 am

    https://ru.rt.com/hhpr


    https://nvo.ng.ru/nvoweek/2020-12-24/2_1123_nvoweek.html?print=Y


    Last edited by Tsavo Lion on Fri Dec 25, 2020 6:18 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : add link)
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    Post  Big_Gazza on Sat Dec 26, 2020 12:02 pm

    Repaired nuclear submarine "Leopard" removed from the boathouse

    SOURCE

    On December 25, 2020, the Department of Information and Mass Communications of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation reported that, as the Commander-in-Chief of the Russian Navy, Admiral Nikolay Evmenov, announced , “in Severodvinsk, the Zvezdochka Ship Repair Center has completed the slipway stage of repair and modernization of the project 971 Leopard nuclear submarine . The submarine was withdrawn from the shipyard's main boathouse to complete work at the enterprise's pier. I received a report on the successful implementation of the operation to withdraw the nuclear submarine Leopard from the boathouse. "

    Russian Navy: Status and News #5 - Page 17 8635956_original

    "The nuclear submarine Leopard has become the first ship of the third generation, the medium repair and deep modernization of which is carried out at the shipyard of the Severodvinsk ship repair center" Zvyozdochka "as part of the program to maintain the required level of combat readiness of the group of multipurpose nuclear submarines of the Navy", - said Admiral Nikolai Evmenov.

    “By the moment of withdrawal from the boathouse by forces of“ Zvezdochka ”and counterparties, replacement of electronic weapons, control systems, communications, navigation, hydroacoustics, BIUS was carried out. As part of the modernization, it is envisaged to expand the used models of missile and torpedo weapons, reduce the acoustic signature of the ship, improve the habitability for the crew, and the characteristics of the operational reliability of the submarine. The completion of the repair and modernization works will be carried out afloat at the wall of the outfitting embankment of the enterprise, ”emphasized the Commander-in-Chief of the Russian Navy, Admiral Nikolai Evmenov.

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