Russia Defence Forum

Would you like to react to this message? Create an account in a few clicks or log in to continue.

Military Forum for Russian and Global Defence Issues


    Russian Navy: Status and News #5

    SeigSoloyvov
    SeigSoloyvov

    Posts : 1852
    Points : 1842
    Join date : 2016-04-08

    Russian Navy: Status and News #5 - Page 14 Empty Re: Russian Navy: Status and News #5

    Post  SeigSoloyvov on Tue Jul 14, 2020 8:15 pm

    .....I can't even begin to understand, how you think anything you said makes any degree of sense.
    Isos
    Isos

    Posts : 5758
    Points : 5750
    Join date : 2015-11-07

    Russian Navy: Status and News #5 - Page 14 Empty Re: Russian Navy: Status and News #5

    Post  Isos on Tue Jul 14, 2020 8:29 pm

    SeigSoloyvov wrote:.....I can't even begin to understand, how you think anything you said makes any degree of sense.

    He is not wrong. China could be very well interested by the Kuznetsov, even more if they offer mig29K with it. That's the sister ship of the one they already operate and they are in need for such ships. They could modernize it for a fraction of the time they spent building new ones.

    The stupid part is believing that Russia would sell it.
    SeigSoloyvov
    SeigSoloyvov

    Posts : 1852
    Points : 1842
    Join date : 2016-04-08

    Russian Navy: Status and News #5 - Page 14 Empty Re: Russian Navy: Status and News #5

    Post  SeigSoloyvov on Tue Jul 14, 2020 10:17 pm

    Isos wrote:
    SeigSoloyvov wrote:.....I can't even begin to understand, how you think anything you said makes any degree of sense.

    He is not wrong. China could be very well interested by the Kuznetsov, even more if they offer mig29K with it. That's the sister ship of the one they already operate and they are in need for such ships. They could modernize it for a fraction of the time they spent building new ones.

    The stupid part is believing that Russia would sell it.

    No, they wouldn't buy it, they are very unhappy with the other one they bought as is.

    The Chinese moved away from wanting to buy foreign ships. They knew full well if they want to be a major naval power they need to be self sufficient.

    MAYBE if the Russians would sell it for dirt cheap, the Chinese would be like "Ehhhh I guess" but for what the Russians would want for the thing even if they wanted to sell it, the Chinese would never pay.
    ultimatewarrior
    ultimatewarrior

    Posts : 1070
    Points : 1078
    Join date : 2016-09-19
    Location : Waterloo, Ontario, Canada

    Russian Navy: Status and News #5 - Page 14 Empty Re: Russian Navy: Status and News #5

    Post  ultimatewarrior on Tue Jul 14, 2020 10:30 pm

    SeigSoloyvov wrote:
    Isos wrote:
    SeigSoloyvov wrote:.....I can't even begin to understand, how you think anything you said makes any degree of sense.

    He is not wrong. China could be very well interested by the Kuznetsov, even more if they offer mig29K with it. That's the sister ship of the one they already operate and they are in need for such ships. They could modernize it for a fraction of the time they spent building new ones.

    The stupid part is believing that Russia would sell it.

    No, they wouldn't buy it, they are very unhappy with the other one they bought as is.

    The Chinese moved away from wanting to buy foreign ships. They knew full well if they want to be a major naval power they need to be self sufficient.

    MAYBE if the Russians would sell it for dirt cheap, the Chinese would be like "Ehhhh I guess" but for what the Russians would want for the thing even if they wanted to sell it, the Chinese would never pay.

    There's no way China can build 6 carriers by 2030. 4 maybe. But not 6. That's why they bought their first carrier and they will be Admiral Kuznetsov and refurnish it. For now they need the numbers game to counter US in the Pacific. Remember. 6. Aircraft. Carriers. 6.
    SeigSoloyvov
    SeigSoloyvov

    Posts : 1852
    Points : 1842
    Join date : 2016-04-08

    Russian Navy: Status and News #5 - Page 14 Empty Re: Russian Navy: Status and News #5

    Post  SeigSoloyvov on Tue Jul 14, 2020 10:31 pm

    They don't need four carriers by 2036, just four would be enough.
    ultimatewarrior
    ultimatewarrior

    Posts : 1070
    Points : 1078
    Join date : 2016-09-19
    Location : Waterloo, Ontario, Canada

    Russian Navy: Status and News #5 - Page 14 Empty Re: Russian Navy: Status and News #5

    Post  ultimatewarrior on Tue Jul 14, 2020 10:35 pm

    SeigSoloyvov wrote:They don't need four carriers by 2036, just four would be enough.

    Four is not enough. They need 6 carriers by 2030 to take on US at Taiwan.
    SeigSoloyvov
    SeigSoloyvov

    Posts : 1852
    Points : 1842
    Join date : 2016-04-08

    Russian Navy: Status and News #5 - Page 14 Empty Re: Russian Navy: Status and News #5

    Post  SeigSoloyvov on Tue Jul 14, 2020 10:40 pm

    ultimatewarrior wrote:
    SeigSoloyvov wrote:They don't need four carriers by 2036, just four would be enough.

    Four is not enough. They need 6 carriers by 2030 to take on US at Taiwan.


    No they don't considering where taiwan is located
    Rodion_Romanovic
    Rodion_Romanovic

    Posts : 993
    Points : 991
    Join date : 2015-12-30

    Russian Navy: Status and News #5 - Page 14 Empty Re: Russian Navy: Status and News #5

    Post  Rodion_Romanovic on Wed Jul 15, 2020 12:33 am

    SeigSoloyvov wrote:
    ultimatewarrior wrote:
    SeigSoloyvov wrote:They don't need four carriers by 2036, just four would be enough.

    Four is not enough. They need 6 carriers by 2030 to take on US at Taiwan.


    No they don't considering where taiwan is located
    yeah, Taiwan is less than 200 km from chinese mainland (and even further away point is about 400 km). They are well in range of land based aviation.
    The thing that they would really need is instead landing ships and amphibious assault ships, and as far as I remember, they are building those.


    By the way Tu22M would be much more useful than carrier based aviation for such an operation... if they really wanted to buy something from Russia.

    Anyway I really doubt that Russia would consider selling the Kuznetov before 2035... after two modern carriers are commissioned, they could do that, but before that is really improbable... at least they can keep it as a training ship to help maintaining a carrier based aviation. (The land based training facilities in Yevsk and Saki of course help, but cannot substitute real carrier operations)

    GarryB likes this post

    GarryB
    GarryB

    Posts : 25276
    Points : 25822
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Russian Navy: Status and News #5 - Page 14 Empty Re: Russian Navy: Status and News #5

    Post  GarryB on Wed Jul 15, 2020 8:34 am

    With Admiral Kuznetsov due to retire in a few years and sold to China, these LHD will be Russia navy's biggest warships at about 25,000 tons displacement. They will be escorted by frigates like Admiral Gorshkov.

    It is currently undergoing a deep modernisation... it will be used operationally for the next 30 years... as a carrier till a new CVN is built and then as a training carrier after that.

    Indeed, Why would China even purchase the old hull at this stage they are building more modern CV's, makes no sense to buy a soviet era ship for them anymore.

    It is currently getting a deep modernisation, so a lot of bits would be very much of interest to them, but it wont be for sale anyway so the subject is moot.

    Russia with the money (easily 4 billion $ on the export market for the ship) could start a new Lamantin carrier.

    Which does not make sense... even if they needed the money it would be 10 years before a new carrier would be in the water... the Kuznetsov would have more value as a carrier at sea than euros in a bank account.

    Russia is downsizing and getting rid of carriers, Kirov class cruisers, because of high cost. China will buy Admiral Kuznetsov, refurbish it, and commissioned it by the late 2020s.

    Russia is upgrading the Kuznetsov and two Kirovs for Russian use... they are not for sale.

    No, they wouldn't buy it, they are very unhappy with the other one they bought as is.

    Of course they were unhappy with the purchase... they bought it from the Ukraine and probably expected help and support and for it to be in a reasonable state but it was a derelict and most of the technology on board was Russian so Ukraine couldn't help them with it.

    The Chinese moved away from wanting to buy foreign ships.

    Until they got the ship they didn't know what they wanted... this vessel gave them a baseline...

    MAYBE if the Russians would sell it for dirt cheap, the Chinese would be like "Ehhhh I guess" but for what the Russians would want for the thing even if they wanted to sell it, the Chinese would never pay.

    There is no interest in selling.

    There's no way China can build 6 carriers by 2030. 4 maybe. But not 6. That's why they bought their first carrier and they will be Admiral Kuznetsov and refurnish it. For now they need the numbers game to counter US in the Pacific. Remember. 6. Aircraft. Carriers. 6.

    What... does someone have a gun to your head.... blink twice and we will know because I was expecting you to say China could build 10 carriers by 2030...

    Of course the real problem is that if you want 6 carrier groups by 2030 then you are going to need at least 50 destroyers and probably 18 cruisers to go with them and of course frigates and support ships too...

    Four is not enough. They need 6 carriers by 2030 to take on US at Taiwan.

    They would be better off with SSNs and ballistic missiles tipped with anti ship weapons and of course Tu-16 aircraft with long range supersonic anti ship missiles...

    Or maybe Tu-22M3s licence produced in China with inflight refuelling probes and Kh-32 missiles... or a Chinese IRBM converted to aircraft use...

    Tsavo Lion
    Tsavo Lion

    Posts : 4157
    Points : 4153
    Join date : 2016-08-15
    Location : AZ, USA

    Russian Navy: Status and News #5 - Page 14 Empty Re: Russian Navy: Status and News #5

    Post  Tsavo Lion on Sun Jul 19, 2020 6:52 pm

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/hisutton/2020/07/19/new-intelligence-reveals-russian-submarine-heading-into-english-channel/#11f1a1aa5abe

    Nice tit-for-tat: NATO ships enter & rotate in/out of the Black Sea, sometimes staying there over 21 days.
    Hole
    Hole

    Posts : 2958
    Points : 2958
    Join date : 2018-03-24
    Age : 44
    Location : Merkelland

    Russian Navy: Status and News #5 - Page 14 Empty Re: Russian Navy: Status and News #5

    Post  Hole on Sun Jul 19, 2020 9:44 pm

    Nice targets for russian anti-ship missiles.
    Viktor
    Viktor

    Posts : 5808
    Points : 6443
    Join date : 2009-08-25
    Age : 39
    Location : Croatia

    Russian Navy: Status and News #5 - Page 14 Empty Re: Russian Navy: Status and News #5

    Post  Viktor on Tue Jul 21, 2020 11:59 pm

    Yesterday Russia laid down 90k tons of warships Laughing
    dino00
    dino00

    Posts : 1389
    Points : 1430
    Join date : 2012-10-12
    Age : 32
    Location : portugal

    Russian Navy: Status and News #5 - Page 14 Empty Re: Russian Navy: Status and News #5

    Post  dino00 on Wed Jul 22, 2020 12:03 am

    Viktor wrote:Yesterday Russia laid down 90k tons of warships  Laughing

    The weight of an aircraft carrier, but much more useful and cheaper Very Happy
    JohninMK
    JohninMK

    Posts : 7649
    Points : 7732
    Join date : 2015-06-16
    Location : England

    Russian Navy: Status and News #5 - Page 14 Empty Re: Russian Navy: Status and News #5

    Post  JohninMK on Sun Jul 26, 2020 2:41 pm



    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8561297/Russia-flexes-growing-power-Navy-huge-parade-involving-200-warships-St-Petersburg.html
    avatar
    Tingsay

    Posts : 153
    Points : 157
    Join date : 2016-12-09

    Russian Navy: Status and News #5 - Page 14 Empty Re: Russian Navy: Status and News #5

    Post  Tingsay on Mon Jul 27, 2020 9:34 am

    JohninMK wrote:

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8561297/Russia-flexes-growing-power-Navy-huge-parade-involving-200-warships-St-Petersburg.html


    Comment section is hilarious! Brits pwnd
    The-thing-next-door
    The-thing-next-door

    Posts : 727
    Points : 769
    Join date : 2017-09-18
    Location : Soviet Interdimentional Command

    Russian Navy: Status and News #5 - Page 14 Empty Re: Russian Navy: Status and News #5

    Post  The-thing-next-door on Mon Jul 27, 2020 11:40 am

    dino00 wrote:

    The weight of an aircraft carrier, but much more useful and cheaper Very Happy

    In what way are LHDs more useful than an aircraft carrier?

    LHDs sole purpose is peacetime imperialism, a carrier can be used for both peacetime imperialism and wartime operations against the west.
    GarryB
    GarryB

    Posts : 25276
    Points : 25822
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Russian Navy: Status and News #5 - Page 14 Empty Re: Russian Navy: Status and News #5

    Post  GarryB on Mon Jul 27, 2020 12:00 pm

    That image of the divers with their rebreathing kit... I think I can see an ADS rifle in one of the guys hands.... nice...
    dino00
    dino00

    Posts : 1389
    Points : 1430
    Join date : 2012-10-12
    Age : 32
    Location : portugal

    Russian Navy: Status and News #5 - Page 14 Empty Re: Russian Navy: Status and News #5

    Post  dino00 on Mon Jul 27, 2020 1:41 pm

    The-thing-next-door wrote:
    dino00 wrote:

    The weight of an aircraft carrier, but much more useful and cheaper Very Happy

    In what way are LHDs more useful than an aircraft carrier?

    LHDs sole purpose is peacetime imperialism, a carrier can be used for both peacetime imperialism and wartime operations against the west.

    I was talking about the 6 ships vs the aircraft carrier.

    An LHD is useful for amphibious operations.
    PapaDragon
    PapaDragon

    Posts : 9235
    Points : 9317
    Join date : 2015-04-26
    Location : Fort Evil, Serbia

    Russian Navy: Status and News #5 - Page 14 Empty Re: Russian Navy: Status and News #5

    Post  PapaDragon on Mon Jul 27, 2020 3:49 pm

    The-thing-next-door wrote:
    dino00 wrote:The weight of an aircraft carrier, but much more useful and cheaper Very Happy
    In what way are LHDs more useful than an aircraft carrier?

    LHDs sole purpose is peacetime imperialism, a carrier can be used for both peacetime imperialism and wartime operations against the west.

    Neither are part of nuclear triad so their utility in conflicts against the West is identical

    GarryB
    GarryB

    Posts : 25276
    Points : 25822
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Russian Navy: Status and News #5 - Page 14 Empty Re: Russian Navy: Status and News #5

    Post  GarryB on Tue Jul 28, 2020 9:00 am

    Neither are part of nuclear triad so their utility in conflicts against the West is identical

    I agree with what I think you are trying to say, but disagree with the way you said it.

    Once Russia had a few helicopter carriers in service then they can be used for all sorts of things... a visit to pacific islands offering free healthcare for brownie points... perhaps even do a deal with Cuba and replace one Marine of the two it can normally carry with a group of Cuban doctors that can be heli lifted out to individual islands for those unable to get to the ship... it would be like the Soccer world cup... good PR with the actual people...

    But once they are operational and if Russia got wind that the in power US regime wanted to boost its flagging voter numbers by invading Venezuela then scheduling some exercises where a helicopter carrier and a few cruisers and of course the Kuznetsov have to go to Venezuela for a couple of months for an extended exercise programme might be all they need to do to make the US look at plan B.

    There is no denying that in terms of a full scale nuclear conflict with HATO anything outside the nuclear triad is not very important...
    Tsavo Lion
    Tsavo Lion

    Posts : 4157
    Points : 4153
    Join date : 2016-08-15
    Location : AZ, USA

    Russian Navy: Status and News #5 - Page 14 Empty Re: Russian Navy: Status and News #5

    Post  Tsavo Lion on Tue Jul 28, 2020 9:58 pm

    Big_Gazza
    Big_Gazza

    Posts : 1993
    Points : 1995
    Join date : 2014-08-25
    Location : Melbourne, Australia

    Russian Navy: Status and News #5 - Page 14 Empty Re: Russian Navy: Status and News #5

    Post  Big_Gazza on Wed Jul 29, 2020 12:30 pm

    Funniest thing is to read the absolute denial of the idiots who comment!!! These fukwitz think that snarky jealous comments will somehow defeat hypersonic scram-jet powered missiles? LOL!!!! This ain't the incompetent F-35... Twisted Evil
    kvs
    kvs

    Posts : 6349
    Points : 6486
    Join date : 2014-09-11
    Location : Canuckistan

    Russian Navy: Status and News #5 - Page 14 Empty Re: Russian Navy: Status and News #5

    Post  kvs on Wed Jul 29, 2020 7:34 pm

    Big_Gazza wrote:Funniest thing is to read the absolute denial of the idiots who comment!!!  These fukwitz think that snarky jealous comments will somehow defeat hypersonic scram-jet powered missiles?  LOL!!!!  This ain't the incompetent F-35...  Twisted Evil

    This sort of knee-jerk dismissal of the ability of others to develop effective weapons and even win the biggest war in history
    is what comes from exceptionaist idiots who never lived through any major war of note and who have been brainwashed
    for two centuries at least that they are special and have a "manifest destiny". Nobody ever disabused them of their rotten
    ego-trip delusions. They laugh because they are experiencing severe cognitive dissonance.

    Big_Gazza likes this post

    Hole
    Hole

    Posts : 2958
    Points : 2958
    Join date : 2018-03-24
    Age : 44
    Location : Merkelland

    Russian Navy: Status and News #5 - Page 14 Empty Re: Russian Navy: Status and News #5

    Post  Hole on Wed Jul 29, 2020 9:38 pm

    Huge mistake in the video. The guy claims that Sarmat is a "normal ballistic missile" like Minutemen III. Mad
    Tsavo Lion
    Tsavo Lion

    Posts : 4157
    Points : 4153
    Join date : 2016-08-15
    Location : AZ, USA

    Russian Navy: Status and News #5 - Page 14 Empty Re: Russian Navy: Status and News #5

    Post  Tsavo Lion on Sat Aug 01, 2020 5:53 am

    dino00 wrote:An LHD is useful for amphibious operations.

    In the same month, Sivkov announced that a pair of Project 23900 (Priboy) universal amphibious assault ships (UDC), which was laid down in July, worth 100 billion rubles, more meet the tasks of the Russian Navy than the French Mistral, but it does not need it at all. In his opinion, the UDC "will turn out to be expensive but useless toys" and "it would be much more useful to turn them into light aircraft carriers." https://lenta.ru/news/2020/07/31/navy/

    Sponsored content

    Russian Navy: Status and News #5 - Page 14 Empty Re: Russian Navy: Status and News #5

    Post  Sponsored content


      Current date/time is Wed Aug 05, 2020 9:57 am