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    Russian Navy: Status and News #5

    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB on Thu Feb 27, 2020 5:15 am

    Well that is true, but having your corvettes carrying UKSK launchers is a force multiplier... any surface ship force anywhere can have missiles added that they can't use effectively on their own... there is no way a corvette could use 2,500km range land attack cruise missiles against point targets effectively on their own... they need an enormous C4IR network from the special forces on the ground detecting radio and cell phone communications or satellite or drone footage of specific people entering a building or certain materials delivered to a building which suggests it is storing weapons or making bombs or is a comms centre or HQ... once the coordinates are worked out and a flight path determined then any old platform can launch a calibre missile... but if you only have UKSK launchers on your cruisers and destroyers then they wont have that many in service.

    By adding them to their corvettes it does increases costs, but you could make cheap models of Kh-35 to launch from these tubes so they can be cheaply armed and be effective for a range of roles, but when needed you can use them to support larger ships with more useful weapons...

    Even a Ka-27 can't deliver a torpedo 40kms distant at a speed of mach 2 like the 91ER1 can... the sub will first hear it is under attack when the torpedo splashes into the water perhaps 1km or less from its current position. In comparison a torpedo launch from 40km away gives you rather more warning... the speed of sound in water is 1.6km/s so 40km / 1.6 = 25 so 25 seconds after the sub launches a torpedo the target sub could hear it, but at 50knts, which is about 70km/h means your average torpedo will take half an hour to cover 40km...
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    Post  JohninMK on Thu Feb 27, 2020 11:39 am

    Off to a sunshine cruise in the Med perhaps? Certainly out to where their contents could be used.

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    #ВМФ #ЧФ
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    #Russian #Navy RFS 494 'Admiral Grigorovich' and RFS 499 ‘Admiral Makarov' , a Admiral Grigorovich Class frigates of project 11356 leaving #Sevastopol harbor, right now,on 27 February  2020.
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    Post  Isos on Thu Feb 27, 2020 11:53 am

    They have a nice radar of 300km range that can watch the coast, area above idlib and Turkish air space. Nice early warning with decent anti air system.
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    Post  Hole on Tue Mar 03, 2020 5:22 pm

    Some of the recently or soon to be delivered stuff.

    Russian Navy: Status and News #5 - Page 9 Nov_ko10
    Russian Navy: Status and News #5 - Page 9 Nov_ko11
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    Post  walle83 on Thu Mar 05, 2020 2:14 pm

    Not really news i supose, but found these amatuer videos of the carrier Minsk. Nowdays abandoned it seems.  What a waste of carrier that could have served many years longer.


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    Post  SeigSoloyvov on Thu Mar 05, 2020 4:12 pm

    Well, the Russians could perhaps buy her back from china if they really wanted to. The Chinese don't care much for the ship but at this stage just not worth the money you'd have to put into her.
    Rodion_Romanovic
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    Post  Rodion_Romanovic on Thu Mar 05, 2020 4:35 pm

    SeigSoloyvov wrote:Well, the Russians could perhaps buy her back from china if they really wanted to. The Chinese don't care much for the ship but at this stage just not worth the money you'd have to put into her.
    if the Russians really wanted, they would have kept and modernised Admiral Gorshkov (ex Baku) instead of selling it to India.

    Minsk was laid down 10 years before Baku, and in the 90s they had a lot of ocean capable ships, but no money for them.

    It is absurd however that most of these ships were still quite young when sold as scraps for basically no money.

    Anyway, a proper and modern helicopter carrier would be much more useful for the Russian navy than a modernised Kiev class.

    In addition building one from scratches is probably easier cheaper on the long term than trying to restore and modernise a ship that has been left to rot for more than 20 years.

    Just as a reference, they spent a couple of billion dollars (even if a part of those was for the air wing) and 8 years to modernise Admiral Gorshkov into INS Vikramaditya.

    In that time, if you have the facilities you can build a brand new carrier.

    The work was anyway useful, because st least someone in Russia has relative recent experience in buidling and upgrading a carrier...
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    Post  Big_Gazza on Fri Mar 06, 2020 1:49 pm

    Rodion_Romanovic wrote:Just as a reference, they spent a couple of billion dollars (even if a part of those was for the air wing) and 8 years to modernise Admiral Gorshkov into INS Vikramaditya.

    Consider the comparable Indian carrier Vikrant that has taken 10+ years and 3.6B as of last year (and isn't expected to be commissioned until 2021, ie 12-13 years since being laid down).  The Vikramaditya was a bargain by comparison.

    That said, the Minsk is floating scrap. If the Chinese don't want it then she'll be off to the breakers yards.
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    Post  Rodion_Romanovic on Fri Mar 06, 2020 2:59 pm

    Big_Gazza wrote:
    Rodion_Romanovic wrote:Just as a reference, they spent a couple of billion dollars (even if a part of those was for the air wing) and 8 years to modernise Admiral Gorshkov into INS Vikramaditya.

    Consider the comparable Indian carrier Vikrant that has taken 10+ years and 3.6B as of last year (and isn't expected to be commissioned until 2021, ie 12-13 years since being laid down).  The Vikramaditya was a bargain by comparison.

    That said, the Minsk is floating scrap.  If the Chinese don't want it then she'll be off to the breakers yards.
    Well, the indians are not really the world leading champion of shipbuilding.

    Let's say that the main problems with Vikramaditya was probably on the communication, P.R. and commercial sides.

    Russia probably should have known about the Indian behavior of bad mouthing even loyal suppliers and be more clear from the start about timescales and costs.

    I don't negate the fact that India got a decent carrier for a good price, even if with some delays on the established delivery. The problem is that Russia promised an impossibly low price and put itself in the position of being criticizable...


    By the way, I read that the Indians probably put on hold the idea of acquiring a third carrier, saying that acquisition of nuclear submarines will take the precedence..

    This could play well for the Russians, especially if they finalize in the meanwhile a design for a carrier based on a modernized Ulyanovsk.

    In the meanwhile, there are better uses of a few billion dollars than trying to resuscitate, modify and modernise Minsk, considering that with the same money they can build probably 3 or 4 Gorshkov class frigates AND a couple of LHD/helicopter carriers

    Just to have an idea about price I saw that an export version of the proposed supercarrier 23000 class would have been around 5.5 billions dollars (possibly including also part of the development cost). Unless they underestimated the expenses a slightly smaller 65000 to 75000 tons ship (like Ulyanovsk) should be cheaper.
    Furthermore splitting part of the development cost among more ships, including ideally one or two for India would make a huge difference...
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    Post  JohninMK on Fri Mar 06, 2020 4:21 pm

    Heading west out of the Med, not needed off Syria now the other two frigates are there.


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    I think that in the photo the frigate Admiral Grigorovich FFG 494


    Russian Navy: Status and News #5 - Page 9 ESW1Rw7XsAAPiPb?format=jpg&name=small



    Maybe related to this news.

    ANCHORS AWEIGH
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    Russian tug NIKOLAY CHIKER in Celtic Sea area heading south possibly to meet Russian warship heading northwards.
    Isos
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    Post  Isos on Fri Mar 06, 2020 4:59 pm

    There is a US carrier nearby. Maybe it will watch it.
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    Post  JohninMK on Fri Mar 06, 2020 8:11 pm

    Isos wrote:There is a US carrier nearby. Maybe it will watch it.

    Isn't the US carrier in the eastern Med with the French same?
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    Post  Isos on Fri Mar 06, 2020 8:22 pm

    JohninMK wrote:
    Isos wrote:There is a US carrier nearby. Maybe it will watch it.

    Isn't the US carrier in the eastern Med with the French same?

    My bad. I understood she was going in west mediteranean. Seems she is going in the north. Maybe test some Zirkon missiles.
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    Post  Hole on Fri Mar 06, 2020 8:46 pm

    Why waste the fuel? Test Zirkon with the carriers. Very Happy
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    Post  Isos on Fri Mar 06, 2020 9:27 pm

    Hole wrote:Why waste the fuel? Test Zirkon with the carriers. Very Happy

    With or against ? Twisted Evil
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    Post  Hole on Sat Mar 07, 2020 1:15 pm

    If they behave just use the "electronic launch" method. Otherwise… pwnd
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    Post  George1 on Mon Mar 16, 2020 4:23 pm

    Russian Navy oceanographic research vessel arrives in Bellingshausen Sea

    Explorations are conducted as part of the 5th stage of the round-the-world expedition devoted to the 200th anniversary of the discovery of the Antarctic by Russian explorers, according to the top brass

    MOSCOW, March 16. /TASS/. The Russian Navy’s oceanographic research vessel Admiral Vladimirsky arrived in the Bellingshausen Sea to carry out explorations as part of the 5th stage of the round-the-world expedition devoted to the 200th anniversary of the discovery of the Antarctic by Russian explorers, the Defense Ministry of Russia reported on Monday.

    "During the explorations in the Bellingshausen Sea, the oceanographic research vessel Admiral Vladimirsky will survey the sea areas adjacent to the coastline of Peter I Island in order to adjust sea navigation maps," the ministry said in a statement.

    Peter I Island is an uninhabited island located in the Bellingshausen Sea 400 km off the Antarctic coast in the Antarctic portion of the Pacific Ocean. It was discovered on January 11 (under the Julian calendar), 1821 by the Russian expedition under the command of Faddey Bellingshausen and Mikhail Lazarev and named after Emperor Peter the Great, the founder of the Russian regular fleet.

    The island is located south of 60 degrees of the southern latitude and is covered by the international law on the Antarctic.

    The round-the-world expedition kicked off in December 2019 and will last until June.

    The Russian expedition led by prominent explorers Faddey Bellingshausen and Mikhail Lazarev discovered the Antarctic on January 28, 1820. On that day, 200 years ago, the explorers approached the shores of the ice-covered continent aboard the sloops Vostok and Mirny. After circumnavigating the Antarctic ice sheets, the expedition confirmed the existence of the sixth continent, the Antarctic.

    https://tass.com/science/1130721
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB on Tue Mar 17, 2020 2:09 am

    Just as a reference, they spent a couple of billion dollars (even if a part of those was for the air wing) and 8 years to modernise Admiral Gorshkov into INS Vikramaditya.

    AFAIK the Admiral Gorshkov ended up costing about 2.6 billion including air wing which pretty much made it a bargain... keeping in mind that 36 Rafales on their own cost about 8 billion... without a boat to go with them...

    The amount of time it took was mostly because the negotiations took about 10 years... if they had taken 2 years instead the modernisation probably would have been rather quicker...

    The Russian expedition led by prominent explorers Faddey Bellingshausen and Mikhail Lazarev discovered the Antarctic on January 28, 1820. On that day, 200 years ago, the explorers approached the shores of the ice-covered continent aboard the sloops Vostok and Mirny.

    I thought the ships captains name was Thaddeus Von Bellingshausen... he basically wrote the manual on world travel for the Russian Navy... he sailed right around the world and didn't lose a single sailor at a time when ships with 500 people would leave Europe and arrive in the US with 200 deaths from scurvy and other things... obviously many started the journey in poor health, but what he did was impressive. I seem to remember after stopping in the UK for repairs he made an emphatic note that all repairs and agreements in the UK need to be based on results and completion of jobs rather than to an hourly rate because he got screwed... he was paying for work by the hour and they went on a go slow to maximise the value of the repairs... experience is the best teacher...
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    Post  George1 on Fri Mar 20, 2020 12:16 am

    Former ships of the Ukrainian Navy in Sevastopol

    The other day in Sevastopol, the collection of former ships and vessels of the Ukrainian Navy has been completed. In total, two groups were formed assembled in the Streletskaya and Engineering bays. No official statements have been received from the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation on these activities, some sources claim that it is possible to transfer units to Ukraine. However, it is worth assuming that the whole group is simply preparing to relocate to the Crimean naval base - Donuzlav (the former main base of the Southern Naval Forces of the Ukrainian Navy) for further sediment.

    In the photo: ships and vessels previously owned by the Ukrainian Navy at the berths in the bays of Engineering and Streletskaya in Sevastopol. March 18-19, 2020. Photo from the archive of A. Balabin.

    https://bmpd.livejournal.com/3962864.html
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    Post  Rodion_Romanovic on Fri Mar 20, 2020 12:25 am

    George1 wrote:Former ships of the Ukrainian Navy in Sevastopol

     The other day in Sevastopol, the collection of former ships and vessels of the Ukrainian Navy has been completed. In total, two groups were formed assembled in the Streletskaya and Engineering bays. No official statements have been received from the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation on these activities, some sources claim that it is possible to transfer units to Ukraine. However, it is worth assuming that the whole group is simply preparing to relocate to the Crimean naval base - Donuzlav (the former main base of the Southern Naval Forces of the Ukrainian Navy) for further sediment.

     In the photo: ships and vessels previously owned by the Ukrainian Navy at the berths in the bays of Engineering and Streletskaya in Sevastopol. March 18-19, 2020. Photo from the archive of A. Balabin.

    https://bmpd.livejournal.com/3962864.html
    The only really useful ship is the Konstantin Olshansky Project 775 large landing ship.

    In addition there are some relatively modern (for Ukraine) ASW corvettes that could still serve...

    All the rest is scrap
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    Post  hoom on Sat Mar 21, 2020 8:45 am

    Hmm, I wonder what happened with that EU court case over those ships? Suspect
    Last I heard was some ludicrous situation if I recall the 404s were trying to block Russia from submitting evidence that Russia has a standing offer: all the 404s have to do is bring a tug to pick them up.
    404 argument was something silly like that the facts prejudiced their right to a fair trial unshaven
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    Post  PapaDragon on Sat Mar 21, 2020 4:20 pm

    hoom wrote:Hmm, I wonder what happened with that EU court case over those ships? Suspect
    Last I heard was some ludicrous situation if I recall the 404s were trying to block Russia from submitting evidence that Russia has a standing offer: all the 404s have to do is bring a tug to pick them up.
    404 argument was something silly like that the facts prejudiced their right to a fair trial unshaven

    Just tow that junk outside 404 territorial waters and let tide deliver them back lol1
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    Post  JohninMK on Sat Mar 21, 2020 11:49 pm

    PapaDragon wrote:

    Just tow that junk outside 404 territorial waters and let tide deliver them back lol1

    Or let a passing NATO ship do a tow job.
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    Post  George1 on Tue Mar 24, 2020 11:00 am

    Yaroslav Mudry frigate around South Africa

    https://navy-korabel.livejournal.com/232885.html
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    Post  PapaDragon on Tue Mar 24, 2020 11:34 am

    George1 wrote:Yaroslav Mudry frigate around South Africa

    https://navy-korabel.livejournal.com/232885.html

    Escorting this one:
    Russian Navy: Status and News #5 - Page 9 Hhhhhh10


    And like they said in the article, they aren't going through Suez because Akademik Cherskiy can't fit under the new bridge there

    Mystery solved


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