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lulldapull,
The picture is not that bad,,yeah pak has aserious problems ,but still has solutions..
The picture is not that bad,,yeah pak has aserious problems ,but still has solutions..
+11
NationalRus
Pervius
f-insas
Corrosion
Austin
SinaAzad
ahmedfire
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GarryB
nightcrawler
lulldapull
15 posters
FC-1/ JF-17 Thunder: News
ahmedfire- Posts : 1771
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Join date : 2010-11-11
Location : The Land Of Pharaohs
Admin- Posts : 2928
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ahmedfire wrote:lulldapull,
The picture is not that bad,,yeah pak has aserious problems ,but still has solutions..
After all that has happened the last couple months, Pakistan has shown utter incompetency in its defence.
ahmedfire- Posts : 1771
Points : 1947
Join date : 2010-11-11
Location : The Land Of Pharaohs
JF-17 in turkey air show..
GarryB- Posts : 37245
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Join date : 2010-03-30
Location : New Zealand
It is a Mig-21 with a new Russian engine and a Russian gun fitted with a bigger nose.
I have doubts its avionics match European fighters, which also raises questions about missile performance too.
The Russians tested plenty of alternatives including a chin mounted intake with canard fins that looks like a Typhoon, but at the end of the day they went for Swing wing to replace the Mig-21 in the bomber interception role and eventually the Mig-29 in the cheap light fighter role.
I have doubts its avionics match European fighters, which also raises questions about missile performance too.
The Russians tested plenty of alternatives including a chin mounted intake with canard fins that looks like a Typhoon, but at the end of the day they went for Swing wing to replace the Mig-21 in the bomber interception role and eventually the Mig-29 in the cheap light fighter role.
SinaAzad- Posts : 13
Points : 19
Join date : 2011-06-05
Age : 29
Location : Persia
I have got a Question , what is its engine ? RD-93 ?
and is it a CAS model Aircraft like F-16 and Su-30MKI ? or what ?
and is it a CAS model Aircraft like F-16 and Su-30MKI ? or what ?
GarryB- Posts : 37245
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Join date : 2010-03-30
Location : New Zealand
The RD-93 is an RD-33 from the Mig-29 with its gearbox shifted from the top to the bottom to make it more convenient to reach, and to suit the engine position on Mig-21 like aircraft.
The Russians make them and the Chinese fit them to the aircraft... it is a Russian made engine.
This aircraft is certainly not a CAS aircraft like a Frogfoot or A-10.
It is basically a cheap light fighter in the class of a Mig-21 but with modern avionics and two extra wingtip weapon pylons.
Payload is just under 4 tons.
It seems to be compatible with modern weapons, but of course it needs to be part of an effective air force to get its full potential.
For example being able to carry a centreline fuel tank to extend flight range, have two wingtip mounted BVR ARH missiles and with the four underwing pylons able to carry one 500kg satellite guided bomb each it would be a very potent little light strike fighter... but if you have no way of determining the coordinates of the targets you want to hit then you have a fairly ineffectual load.
The Russians make them and the Chinese fit them to the aircraft... it is a Russian made engine.
This aircraft is certainly not a CAS aircraft like a Frogfoot or A-10.
It is basically a cheap light fighter in the class of a Mig-21 but with modern avionics and two extra wingtip weapon pylons.
Payload is just under 4 tons.
It seems to be compatible with modern weapons, but of course it needs to be part of an effective air force to get its full potential.
For example being able to carry a centreline fuel tank to extend flight range, have two wingtip mounted BVR ARH missiles and with the four underwing pylons able to carry one 500kg satellite guided bomb each it would be a very potent little light strike fighter... but if you have no way of determining the coordinates of the targets you want to hit then you have a fairly ineffectual load.
Austin- Posts : 7618
Points : 8015
Join date : 2010-05-08
Location : India
JF-17 is a fine fighter considering its a cheap replacement for Mig-21 ,kinda 21st century Mig-21 ...it does the same job for PAF as LCA does for India.
nightcrawler- Posts : 522
Points : 634
Join date : 2010-08-20
Age : 33
Location : Pakistan
@lulldapull
Pakistan isn't falling apart the thing is that we can't just compete TECHNICALLY with the Americans..we don't have oil/gas like Iran or Arabs wealth jewels. Pakistan is weakened because we had made mistakes understanding Russians in the past & now the 80s fight is haunting us. Pakistan isn't falling apart & this BS I have been listening since I was 9/11. Just wait for 1.5 year & the administration of Zardari is to be changed (democratically)& then you will acknowledge Pakistan is good at everything one can think off.
You have great misinformation upon Gwadar project too...it isn't abandoned
@Austin
We don't made JF-17 as the main fighter plane just to replace the old ones like our F-7s (Chinese MiG-21) & Mirages. The main thing we need from JF-17 is the ability to launch complex BVR on to the coming avalanche of Indian planes..thats all.
Pakistan isn't falling apart the thing is that we can't just compete TECHNICALLY with the Americans..we don't have oil/gas like Iran or Arabs wealth jewels. Pakistan is weakened because we had made mistakes understanding Russians in the past & now the 80s fight is haunting us. Pakistan isn't falling apart & this BS I have been listening since I was 9/11. Just wait for 1.5 year & the administration of Zardari is to be changed (democratically)& then you will acknowledge Pakistan is good at everything one can think off.
You have great misinformation upon Gwadar project too...it isn't abandoned
@Austin
you got that rightJF-17 is a fine fighter considering its a cheap replacement for Mig-21 ,kinda 21st century Mig-21 ...it does the same job for PAF as LCA does for India.
We don't made JF-17 as the main fighter plane just to replace the old ones like our F-7s (Chinese MiG-21) & Mirages. The main thing we need from JF-17 is the ability to launch complex BVR on to the coming avalanche of Indian planes..thats all.
GarryB- Posts : 37245
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Join date : 2010-03-30
Location : New Zealand
It is basically a numbers plane.
Cheap to buy and operate, but able to deliver weapons as good as any your best fighters can deploy.
To be honest there is little difference between the performance of an AMRAAM fired at mach 1.6 at 15,000m altitude from an F-22 and the same model AMRAAM fired at mach 1.6 at 15,000m altitude from a JF-17 in terms of missile performance and range.
In fact the visible JF-17 has a different effect... an Su-30MKI would probably detect it and might give chase, which would close distance and make a kill more likely. Alternatively in a different situation an AMRAAM appearing from nowhere, or datalink traffic in empty space would make most Su-30MKI pilots turn 180 degrees and accelerate to high speed so any incoming missile will have trouble getting a lock.
Cheap to buy and operate, but able to deliver weapons as good as any your best fighters can deploy.
To be honest there is little difference between the performance of an AMRAAM fired at mach 1.6 at 15,000m altitude from an F-22 and the same model AMRAAM fired at mach 1.6 at 15,000m altitude from a JF-17 in terms of missile performance and range.
In fact the visible JF-17 has a different effect... an Su-30MKI would probably detect it and might give chase, which would close distance and make a kill more likely. Alternatively in a different situation an AMRAAM appearing from nowhere, or datalink traffic in empty space would make most Su-30MKI pilots turn 180 degrees and accelerate to high speed so any incoming missile will have trouble getting a lock.
nightcrawler- Posts : 522
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Join date : 2010-08-20
Age : 33
Location : Pakistan
History prove that never we were aggressors; all the dogfights & the air to air battles took place in our air field & not that of India meaning we were at defence. So the JF-17 with hordes of AAM & SAMs are to deter any attack...rather to attack & fight in Indian boundaries; such a job is to be handled by F-16 (for now) or in the future by J-10/20
Corrosion- Posts : 181
Points : 192
Join date : 2010-10-19
nightcrawler wrote:History prove that never we were aggressors; all the dogfights & the air to air battles took place in our air field & not that of India meaning we were at defence.
.........Sources please??These quotes are from PAF official website, there are more there:
Flt Lt Saleem Beg Mirza was the leader of the escort section to a formation of four F-86s, striking Srinagar Air Base.
And I personally know a place that was bombed by Pakistan fighter., actually it is just a farm land, dont know what they were looking for.Eight F-86Fs of No 19 Squadron struck Pathankot airfield on 6 September 1965.
On topic, how is Pakistan going to afford J-10 in any meaning full numbers let alone J-20,.... defense aid from China??
nightcrawler- Posts : 522
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Join date : 2010-08-20
Age : 33
Location : Pakistan
where did it say we first came...Corrosion wrote:
These quotes are from PAF official website, there are more there:Flt Lt Saleem Beg Mirza was the leader of the escort section to a formation of four F-86s, striking Srinagar Air Base.And I personally know a place that was bombed by Pakistan fighter., actually it is just a farm land, dont know what they were looking for.Eight F-86Fs of No 19 Squadron struck Pathankot airfield on 6 September 1965.
yes
On topic, how is Pakistan going to afford J-10 in any meaning full numbers let alone J-20,.... defense aid from China??
Corrosion- Posts : 181
Points : 192
Join date : 2010-10-19
nightcrawler wrote:
where did it say we first came...
1948: Pakistan started Kashmir invasion
1965: Pakistan attacked Indian Kashmir
1999: Pakistan invaded Kargil areas
I can quote Pakistan websites.
f-insas- Posts : 21
Points : 21
Join date : 2011-08-19
Age : 51
Location : india
u come from urs porkiland everyday at kashmir ,when urs isi backed jehadis by the cover fire of urs ranger try to infiltrate india everyday and by the end their bodies lay in ours land , u are wellcime brother to taste insas bulletsnightcrawler wrote:where did it say we first came...Corrosion wrote:
These quotes are from PAF official website, there are more there:Flt Lt Saleem Beg Mirza was the leader of the escort section to a formation of four F-86s, striking Srinagar Air Base.And I personally know a place that was bombed by Pakistan fighter., actually it is just a farm land, dont know what they were looking for.Eight F-86Fs of No 19 Squadron struck Pathankot airfield on 6 September 1965.
yes
On topic, how is Pakistan going to afford J-10 in any meaning full numbers let alone J-20,.... defense aid from China??
Pervius- Posts : 224
Points : 240
Join date : 2011-03-08
Corrosion wrote:
On topic, how is Pakistan going to afford J-10 in any meaning full numbers let alone J-20,.... defense aid from China??
China needs to secure their oil supply, Iran and other places. They'd offer discounts to Pakistan if Pakistan agreed to protect China's energy needs.
Besides, the F-16 is more expensive than a J-10. Especially if you need parts.
If Obama signs a deal with India and gives them the blueprints for the YF-23, You'll see China hand Pakistan some J-20's. Likely free.
NationalRus- Posts : 610
Points : 611
Join date : 2010-04-11
the JF-17 is a nice genaration 4 fighter and its cheap and easy to handle and to support, in good nummbers are real threat, but still its just a genaration 4 fighter, "maybe" even 4+ in someone limitedcapabilities but in no way a 4++, its for poor countrys and small countrys wo want to have a decent air-patroling and fighting capabilities without spending 40+ million a jet + big maintenance and support costs, a perfect aircraft four cuntrys like cameroon, kenya, myanmar, pakistan
GarryB- Posts : 37245
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Join date : 2010-03-30
Location : New Zealand
Exactly.
It is a numbers plane.
Good enough for most tasks and and affordable to be used in large numbers.
Placed within a capable air force with good command and control and good recon assets this sort of aircraft can excel simply because it will be able to use most of the advanced weapons newer aircraft can use like satellite guided bombs and active radar homing missiles.
The Russians could have an equivalent in the form of a single seat Yak-130... say the Yak-131 with a small AESA radar and an R-73 with an active radar homing seeker plus of course the R-73.
I would even consider going as far as removing the existing 2.5 ton thrust engines and replacing them with an updated RD-333... yes, I know the engine is too big for such an aircraft, and therefore the fuel fraction would be wrong leading to a very short range aircraft, but if you don't fit the afterburner it becomes a 5 ton thrust engine for an extra 200kgs or so of engine weight... actually without the after burner the weight difference would be less. That means dry thrust equals full AB thrust in the twin engine model, so if the weight can be kept low this plane has all the advantages of a supercruising plane in terms of all the advantages super cruise brings... ie range and IR reduction of not having to use AB etc.
Any improved 5th gen engine developed for a light 5th gen fighter could later be adopted which should be more reliable and powerful and more fuel efficient.
Having IR and ARH R-73s means AAMs kept to about 110kgs each while flight range should be pretty good... and rather more than the 8km or so from the R-60s.
The AESA radar being developed for naval helicopters could be used with a goal for antenna weight to be around 80kgs that would be ideal for the Yak-131.
It is a numbers plane.
Good enough for most tasks and and affordable to be used in large numbers.
Placed within a capable air force with good command and control and good recon assets this sort of aircraft can excel simply because it will be able to use most of the advanced weapons newer aircraft can use like satellite guided bombs and active radar homing missiles.
The Russians could have an equivalent in the form of a single seat Yak-130... say the Yak-131 with a small AESA radar and an R-73 with an active radar homing seeker plus of course the R-73.
I would even consider going as far as removing the existing 2.5 ton thrust engines and replacing them with an updated RD-333... yes, I know the engine is too big for such an aircraft, and therefore the fuel fraction would be wrong leading to a very short range aircraft, but if you don't fit the afterburner it becomes a 5 ton thrust engine for an extra 200kgs or so of engine weight... actually without the after burner the weight difference would be less. That means dry thrust equals full AB thrust in the twin engine model, so if the weight can be kept low this plane has all the advantages of a supercruising plane in terms of all the advantages super cruise brings... ie range and IR reduction of not having to use AB etc.
Any improved 5th gen engine developed for a light 5th gen fighter could later be adopted which should be more reliable and powerful and more fuel efficient.
Having IR and ARH R-73s means AAMs kept to about 110kgs each while flight range should be pretty good... and rather more than the 8km or so from the R-60s.
The AESA radar being developed for naval helicopters could be used with a goal for antenna weight to be around 80kgs that would be ideal for the Yak-131.
lulldapull- Posts : 288
Points : 323
Join date : 2010-03-29
Location : Nagoya
Guys, especially Ahmedfire and nighcrawler.........I stand vindicated.
Last week Mullen made a direct reference to invading Pakistan......The clock is ticking towards an eventual Yugoslav type situation with one ethnicity pitted against the other.
This same relentless formula will be applied to China and Russia, with the eventual goal being to make them into banana republics.
Pakistan will become a bantustan or bananastan......
All the JF-17's and wahabbi F-16's will be destroyed on their few bases by U.S. trained jihadi's, and India will be given the green light to move in at the right time. Tomahawks, and ALCM's will devastate the Pakistan armed forces in another shock & Awe type attack by NATO & the U.S. Same will be repeated against Russia and China after their destabilization's.
Last week Mullen made a direct reference to invading Pakistan......The clock is ticking towards an eventual Yugoslav type situation with one ethnicity pitted against the other.
This same relentless formula will be applied to China and Russia, with the eventual goal being to make them into banana republics.
Pakistan will become a bantustan or bananastan......
All the JF-17's and wahabbi F-16's will be destroyed on their few bases by U.S. trained jihadi's, and India will be given the green light to move in at the right time. Tomahawks, and ALCM's will devastate the Pakistan armed forces in another shock & Awe type attack by NATO & the U.S. Same will be repeated against Russia and China after their destabilization's.
GarryB- Posts : 37245
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The US wouldn't dare attack a country that has nuclear weapons...
Ooops scratch that, they are happy to send drones in to kill people but they would not invade a country with nuclear weapons...
Ooops scratch that, they are happy to send drones in to kill people but they would not invade a country with nuclear weapons...
lulldapull- Posts : 288
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Join date : 2010-03-29
Location : Nagoya
GarryB wrote:The US wouldn't dare attack a country that has nuclear weapons...
Ooops scratch that, they are happy to send drones in to kill people but they would not invade a country with nuclear weapons...
Garry......we know the Paki nukes been carted out the back door already!........The truth be told, they ain't got them no more!
Same will go for China and Russia..........pit one fukkin disgruntled ethnicity against another, and sit back and enjoy the popcorn.........the old English game of divide & conquer.........Stupid muslims will play a central role in this game just like in Xinjiang/ Kashgar and Chechnya/ Dagestan............Bhuwahahahaaaaaa........
Pervius- Posts : 224
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Join date : 2011-03-08
They ARE planning on conquering all of Earth.
1/3rd of America is about to die. (Baby Boomers)
English is a dying global language. Meaning Britain will lose power. Europe in the future will freeze in the winters as oil is gone.
When they had to start heavily chlorinating the water system in Washington DC it ate the lead pipes. Making the water highly toxic with lead.
Now true madmen are making calls. Lead poisoned madmen who fear no consequences or possible extinction.They killed their own to make money and get where they are.
They aren't afraid of toppling the Earth's sovereign countries. They are already near death anyways.
The world has no idea they are now God's with weapons you can't fathom. They started their own Judgement Day. Deciding who lives, and who dies. Mainly everyone is going to die.
1/3rd of America is about to die. (Baby Boomers)
English is a dying global language. Meaning Britain will lose power. Europe in the future will freeze in the winters as oil is gone.
When they had to start heavily chlorinating the water system in Washington DC it ate the lead pipes. Making the water highly toxic with lead.
Now true madmen are making calls. Lead poisoned madmen who fear no consequences or possible extinction.They killed their own to make money and get where they are.
They aren't afraid of toppling the Earth's sovereign countries. They are already near death anyways.
The world has no idea they are now God's with weapons you can't fathom. They started their own Judgement Day. Deciding who lives, and who dies. Mainly everyone is going to die.
George1- Posts : 18066
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Block 2 JF-17 makes first flight ahead of Block 3 improvements
lulldapull- Posts : 288
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Join date : 2010-03-29
Location : Nagoya
George what's the word on the prospective Argentinian purchase of the FC-1? That made headlines last month when Kirchner dumped the used Su-24 offer from Russia, as being an unreliable supplirer to buy 20 FC-1's from China instead?
Pak_Power- Posts : 6
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Join date : 2015-08-20
This post was posted long back in time.wOw.At present time, this all future telling thing has proved it very wrong.lulldapull wrote:nightcrawler wrote:None of the above issues, if Flankers are deemed as dire need and of dire importance, but since they are not and we can have other platforms which can fulfill the requirements of PAF more effectively and efficiently, then why go for Flankers.
If the day comes and we need flankers badly, we will get them, we can very well buy them as well as operate them.
& yes we have the BVR capability on JF17 & F16 go search it out urself
Nightcrawler, Pakistan military leadership is crooked and not sincere to its own nation. They have been the principal accused in breaking up the country in Dec-71, with their disastrous defeat in East Pakistan. Today they stand shoulder to shoulder with the imperialists hell bent on bombing and killing their own people......for a few billions. The Pakistani military is the last entity on this planet to be trusted to make an educated decision on anything. Not to worry, in a matter of a few years the Pakistani military along with their former colonial powers will stand defeated at the hands of both the Pushtuns and the Baloch. Karachi will become a separate entity......and that is pretty much the future of Pakistan. I recently worked in Karachi, and went to many remote oil and gas areas as my work took me there......whatever little bit that was left, the floods took care of that too. The country is on the brink of being pushed into an abyss, starved of finances, debt ridden, no energy, on eternal life support of the West and IMF. I mean where do you stop man? People in Karachi openly call it a failed state, with many calling for Karachi to secede from Pakistan........Its a shame we are at this most unfortunate juncture in our history. A huge part of this blame can be attributed to the poor leadership of the Pakistan military.
Do you know that at Stratfor many have claimed that on 9-12-01, at gun point the NSA and CIA secured Pakistan's nuclear assets?.......under a threat of a certain US nuclear attack Musharraf yielded to the pressure and handed them over....perhaps the nukes have long been carted out the back door, in a similar fashion as South Africa's were when the Blacks came to power, fulfilling a key requirement of the 9-11 drama.
As per this FC-1 or F-16's of the PAF........have you ever seen any PAF aircraft carrying anything resembling a BVR missile ever?
I have never seen a PAF fighter ever toting a BVR missile! Nor is their any documented proof of the US ever supplying the Aim-7 or Aim-120 to Pakistan.
to new realty of Pakistan n you will be sorry for that prediction.At this date I am just posting this to show pp that any prediction about Pakistan can be dead wrong.
lulldapull- Posts : 288
Points : 323
Join date : 2010-03-29
Location : Nagoya
so whats the new reality paki power?
When will civil war end in Karachi?
when will balochistan be pacified?
when will insurgency end in KPK province? when will pakistan stop bombing and droning its own people?
when will corruption end?
How will China's economic crash affect Pakistan?
will the country even exist in a decade? or continue on as a failed state?
All good questions............but no answers.
Basically nothing has changed. All for the worse.
When will civil war end in Karachi?
when will balochistan be pacified?
when will insurgency end in KPK province? when will pakistan stop bombing and droning its own people?
when will corruption end?
How will China's economic crash affect Pakistan?
will the country even exist in a decade? or continue on as a failed state?
All good questions............but no answers.
Basically nothing has changed. All for the worse.
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