Iraqi Air Force

GunshipDemocracy wrote:

d_taddei2 wrote:Iraq doesn't really need fast aircraft only a handful for interceptor duties.

all countries  do

As for others being more expensive depends on the source being used some sources state T-50 more expensive than J-17 and mig. According to iraqinews article iraq paid $1.1 billion for 24 aircraft including training which divided gives $45.8 million each (Inc training)

depending what was in package.Usually this includes training, ground, and logistical support. So price of plane is just  a fraction of cost. BTW  Su-35 for China was 105mln $ /per fighter  $hwrwe for Russian AF is about 2 blns Rub (~ 33 mlns $)  

I am pretty sure they could have got J-17 or mig-29m2 for less. And I think mig-29m2 &  J-17 are faster than T-50.

Prices per plane are higher for both MiG and J-17. Unless you buy Chinese stuff without any support? besides Chinese electronics in olde designs  IMHO still doesn't match Korean one.
Additionally T-50 can be both fighter and trainer.

The yak-130 has capacity to be armed and would be ideal for patrolling due to reduced costs but not as an interceptor unless against drones helicopters slower aircraft.

Not sure if Yak would be interested in this or what was precise requirements of Iraqi AF. The fact is Koreans just won this time.  

Itisof course my "IMHO" against your "IMHO"

I did state a handful of interceptors needed doesn't have much of an air threat.

The article stated this "The order, including training, was valued at $1.1 billion, but the manufacturing Korea Aerospace Industries (KAI) said supporting the aircraft over 20 years will take total revenue beyond $2 billion."

Going by other orders of J-17 it's does seem cheaper even with training added in but chinese stuff is normally cheaper but I agree not always fantastic but does the job. My reasoning was iraq doesn't really need fancy or expensive equipment for the type of conflict it faces. There's plenty of other attack/trainers on the market. Ideally if they had the cash Su-30 but not shit loads of them add in some su-24m2 it's enough if you look at what's been doing most of the bombing in Iraq it's been Su-25, L-159, cessna 208.

As for the su-35 chinese deal we all know that the price was high because China are going to copy the shit out of it they always do.

Iraq along with other deals with Russia could have tied aircraft purchase into gain a discount with a country they already have defence relationship with this is first time for iraq and south Korea and first orders can be high. Maintenance and diplomatic relations is now key for these aircraft between iraq and south Korea (usa ally)

I generally find iraq becoming a mish mash usa weapons now leaning towards Russia and other countries it will end up like Egypt looool. It's not necessarily bad thing just a nightmare when it comes to maintaining equipment as well as integration

The Iraqi parliament in 1937 made a resolution that Iraq will pursue a "dual supply" policy for armaments after Great Britain stopped the supply of parts, service and ammunition to Iraq in the wake of the 1936 coup.

The first result of that was Iraq buying a number of Italian tanks, attack and bomber planes between 1937-1940.

Since 1937 it has been Iraqi policy to "dual source" armaments. This policy was maintained by:
-the kingdom of Iraq from 1937-1958
-The Socialist Leaning Qassim government from 1958-1963
-The military rule from 1963-1968
-The Baathist rule from 1968 - 2003
-The elected Iraqi governments since 2004.


Just giving a historical background and reasoning to what's happening in Iraq.


With regards to Iraq "not needing" modern jets. Iraq's neighbours are all pretty hostile and Iraq has disputes economic / water / sectarian and ethnic with pretty much all of them.

To the north You have Turkey with hundreds of F-16s and now F-35s
to the East you have Iran with thousands of Ballistic Missiles
Kuwait has F/A-18s and will be getting EF-2000s
Saudi has hundreds of F-15s, EF-2000s etc...
Israel has hundreds of F-15s F-16s and now F-35s

So, erm, yes Iraq does have a pretty STRONG need for decent air defences! Far more than any Western European state at least!

Iraq evaluated the JF-17 (there's a long discussion on the topic on iraqi military . org) .

key weakness :
-JF-17 has airframe life of 3500 hours vs T-50IQ 10,000 hours

Key strength:
-Better strategic armaments on JF-17 than T-50IQ (at least initially)

We know that Iraq's current US-supplied armaments are weak... but we've seen that Iraqis are beginning to "mod" their equipment slowly.

Last year they fitted Chinese Sat Guided munitions to their An-32 to make them into precision strike CAS for the army.

Although there's little they can do to the F-16s... there's more flexibility with fitting decent munitions to the T-50IQ in future.

In my view , a true two track policy is one , where local manufacture is followed as well as purchases . I think Iraq as well as all ME nations should cooperate . And make joint investments . Build domestic industry and defence . Iran now builds everything . Apart from heavy combat jets . Iraq is not under sanctions . So the two can help each other . Does Iraq have a nuclear industry ? Iran has one . Pakistan scientists helped Iran with nuclear industry . This is the way to go .

Am not saying T-50 is a bad jet and J-17 is great. Just thinking about cost saving and current needs iraq at the moment is not facing aggression from Iran in fact exact opposite. Israel can't be tackled due to usa big brother and likewise Saudi and Kuwait and I dont really see Kuwait wanting to fan flames. Turkey is only a threat to kurdish area's and iraq does have F-16  (F-16 vs F-16 lol) when finances improve better aircraft could be purchased I would say a T-50 isn't a secure bet at deterring Turkey or other nations Su-30 yes but cost to great for now.

I've always been an advocate of joint ventures where countries with limited military industry team up instead of going it alone and producing half assed equipment. Belarus and Serbia are ideal countries to team up with. Local industry should produce small arms ammo and maybe an armoured wheeled vehicle max. The rest joint ventures with other countries would reduce costs and put enough money in to produce something reasonable. Ex soviet countries could also be brought in to the project. Serbia has done a few with a couple of ME countries already.

Which countries do you think iraq should source equipment from? USA was ok to begin with but now drag their heels something iraq can't afford long delays. When a country results in converting transport aircraft into improvised bomber's there's a need for better procurement partners. The Su-25 they got must have been a relief for them. Should iraq continue with usa equipment? (Unless it's gifted lol)

d_taddei2 wrote:Which countries do you think iraq should source equipment from? USA was ok to begin with but now drag their heels something iraq can't afford long delays. When a country results in converting transport aircraft into improvised bomber's there's a need for better procurement partners. The Su-25 they got must have been a relief for them. Should iraq continue with usa equipment? (Unless it's gifted lol)

Iraq should continue to buy a mix of things depending on value and quality.

So for example US sourced light attack helos are great. Similarly the US sourced Synthetic Aperture Radar Equipped KingAir-350I planes are great.

On the other hand Iraq should continue getting better and more UCAVs from China

Perhaps purchase 1 squadron (18) of twin engined fighters from Russia (SU-30SM ?)

And finally purchase one squadron (18 jets) of 5th Generation Chinese fighters (Shenyang J-31)

In addition Iraq should prioritise the purchase of 5 regiments of S-400 from Russia.

They should co-produce some ATGW (including chinese versions of SPIKE NLOS) for use on a multitude of ground vehicles.

Also co-produce lots of small chinese PGMs for use on a variety of aircraft from SU-25 to L-159 to T-50IQ.


In my "dream scenario" for the Iraqi air force 2025 it would be :

22x SU-25 (upgraded to SM)
12x L-159
24x T-50IQ
34x F-16IQ

18x SU-30SM
18x J-31

20x King Air ISR planes
6x Ericsson Erieye AEW
30x CH-5 UCAVs

affordable, multi-variant and giving just enough force to keep neighbours at bay and keep long borders secure and under constant observation.

I remember reading an article sometime back about a deal for dzhigit, bmp-3 and mig-35. Pictures on here provided confirmation of bmp-3 but any further word on the mig-35 deal

Iraqi Air Force received the last ordered F-16 fighter jets

On May 3, 2019, the last received by the Iraqi Air Force American fighters Lockheed Martin F-16IQ (F-16C / D Block 52) Fighting Falcon out of 36 ordered in the United States under the agreements of 2011 and 2012 arrived at the Iraqi Balad airbase north of Baghdad.

Iraq has entered into agreements with the United States for the purchase of 36 Lockheed Martin F-16IQ tactical fighter jets under foreign military military sales (Foreign Military Program (FMS)) (two batches of 18 aircraft each - 12 F-16C single-seat and six two-seater F-16D each) with weapons and equipment totaling $ 5.3 billion in 2011 and 2012. The delivery of the original plans was to be carried out from the end of 2014 to 2017. These fighters were to be the first full-fledged jet combat aircraft of the Iraqi Air Force after the elimination of the remnants of the Iraqi military aircraft during the US invasion in 2003.

The fighters of the special F-16IQ version delivered to Iraq are a variant of the F-16C / D Block 52 modification with slightly lower equipment and weapon characteristics compared to the aircraft of this modification delivered to other countries. In particular, the Iraqi F-16IQ aircraft are equipped with obsolete rocket armaments — the air-to-air missiles AIM-7M-F1 / H Sparrow and AIM-9L/M-8/9 Sidewinder (instead of the standard modern AIM-120C AMRAAM and AIM-9X), and so far do not carry JDAM bombs with satellite correction, and are equipped only with guided bombs with a semi-active laser guidance system of the Paveway II/III family.

The first F-16IQ fighter aircraft built for Iraq - the F-16D Block 52 two-seater (Iraqi board number IAF-1601, serial number RB-01) flew the first flight at the airport of Lockheed Martin in Fort Worth, TX on May 2, 2014 of the year and was officially handed over to the Iraqi Air Force on June 5, 2014. However, the delivery of F-16IQ aircraft directly to Iraq was postponed due to the bitter war unleashed in Iraq as a result of the formation of the Islamic State (in the summer of 2014 they threatened the very Balad airbase itself, which was stationed at the Iraqi F-16IQ and from where the Americans were forced to evacuate their personnel) .

As a result, the first four Iraqi F-16IQs arrived in Balad from the USA only on July 13, 2015. This led to the fact that the first jet aircraft in the revived Iraqi air force were Su-25 attack aircraft, urgently obtained from the presence of Russia and Iran in the summer of 2014.

In the future, deliveries of the F-16IQ to Iraq continued to be periodically slowed down due to political reasons and problems with the training of Iraqi personnel, and as a result only the last five fighters arrived in Balad on May 3, 2019 (Iraqi board numbers IAF-1615, 1622, 1625, 1633, 1636). Earlier, on April 6, six sides arrived in Balad from the USA.

As a result, 32 F-16IQ aircraft from 36 ordered arrived in Iraq at Balad airbase from June 2015 to May 2019 - aircraft with Iraqi board numbers IAF-1601, 2, 3, 4, 7, 8, 10, 11, 12, 13 , 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 33, 34, 35, 36. Two more aircraft (IAF -1605 and 1609) were defeated by Iraqi pilots during training in the United States at the Tuscon air base (Arizona) in 2015 and 2017, and two more sides (IAF-1606 and 1632) remain in the United States — apparently, to continue to use as training for Iraqi aircrew. All F-16IQs at Balad Air Base are part of the ninth squadron of the Iraqi Air Force.





https://bmpd.livejournal.com/3637073.html

i'd imagine that all this chaos of buying F-16 that this could well be the last purchase of USA aircraft. So many other options out there and ones that are cheaper.

d_taddei2 wrote:i'd imagine that all this chaos of buying F-16 that this could well be the last purchase of USA aircraft. So many other options out there and ones that are cheaper.

After what happened when Iraq was pissed from losing a top pilot when the F-16 crashed in USA with their pilot, and the high cost, Iraq was trying to buy more Russian jets. ended up with US freezing Iraqi foreign accounts and more or less strong armed them from buying Russian.

miketheterrible wrote:

d_taddei2 wrote:i'd imagine that all this chaos of buying F-16 that this could well be the last purchase of USA aircraft. So many other options out there and ones that are cheaper.

After what happened when Iraq was pissed from losing a top pilot when the F-16 crashed in USA with their pilot, and the high cost, Iraq was trying to buy more Russian jets.  ended up with US freezing Iraqi foreign accounts and more or less strong armed them from buying Russian.

another reason not to deal with USA, when Iraq was in need of aircraft to fight ISIS it was Russia who helped them out getting hold of
Su-25 the USA years before only gave them a couple of cessna armed with expensive Hellfire to which i find kinda insulting. I think if Iraq had the chance they would have cancelled F-16 and bought Su-30 instead.

d_taddei2 wrote:

miketheterrible wrote:

d_taddei2 wrote:i'd imagine that all this chaos of buying F-16 that this could well be the last purchase of USA aircraft. So many other options out there and ones that are cheaper.

After what happened when Iraq was pissed from losing a top pilot when the F-16 crashed in USA with their pilot, and the high cost, Iraq was trying to buy more Russian jets.  ended up with US freezing Iraqi foreign accounts and more or less strong armed them from buying Russian.

another reason not to deal with USA, when Iraq was in need of aircraft to fight ISIS it was Russia who helped them out getting hold of
Su-25 the USA years before only gave them a couple of cessna armed with expensive Hellfire to which i find kinda insulting. I think if Iraq had the chance they would have cancelled F-16 and bought Su-30 instead.

Iraq is right now a governate of the United States. Essentially, USA rules Iraq to an extent. They are telling Iraq who they can and cannot buy from or have relations with. I know Iraq is showing some balls by biting back but they will follow what USA demands because they control Iraq's economy more or less.

That will change... especially if there is an open conflict between Iran and the US, because the majority Shia would likely support Iran more than the US on that...

miketheterrible wrote:
Iraq is right now a governate of the United States.  Essentially, USA rules Iraq to an extent.  They are telling Iraq who they can and cannot buy from or have relations with.  I know Iraq is showing some balls by biting back but they will follow what USA demands because they control Iraq's economy more or less.

If the US had its way there wouldn't be any Iranian influence in Iraq but there is plenty--including armed shiite militias.

starman wrote:

miketheterrible wrote:
Iraq is right now a governate of the United States.  Essentially, USA rules Iraq to an extent.  They are telling Iraq who they can and cannot buy from or have relations with.  I know Iraq is showing some balls by biting back but they will follow what USA demands because they control Iraq's economy more or less.

If the US had its way there wouldn't be any Iranian influence in Iraq but there is plenty--including armed shiite militias.

That's why I said they don't fully own Iraq but definitely it's economy.

If you do not believe me, just look up how US froze over hundred billion $$ when Iraq was planning to buy more Sukhois from Russia

miketheterrible wrote:

starman wrote:

miketheterrible wrote:
Iraq is right now a governate of the United States.  Essentially, USA rules Iraq to an extent.  They are telling Iraq who they can and cannot buy from or have relations with.  I know Iraq is showing some balls by biting back but they will follow what USA demands because they control Iraq's economy more or less.

If the US had its way there wouldn't be any Iranian influence in Iraq but there is plenty--including armed shiite militias.

That's why I said they don't fully own Iraq but definitely it's economy.

If you do not believe me, just look up how US froze over hundred billion $$ when Iraq was planning to buy more Sukhois from Russia

well if it continues like that Iraq could stop selling via US but only through Russia or.China, and pretend payment to Honk Kong bank account in Yuans

What do you make of the report of Israeli F-35s (or drones) striking Iranian missiles and personnel in Iraq?

Iraq completed receiving South Korean T-50IQ combat training aircraft

It was reported that on November 29, 2019, the Iraqi Air Force received the last two T-50IQ combat training aircraft manufactured by the South Korean aircraft manufacturing corporation Korea Aerospace Industries (KAI), out of 24 units ordered under a 2013 contract. The aircraft have Iraqi tail numbers IQAF-5023 and IQAF-5024. All 24 aircraft received (flight numbers from IQAF-5001 to IQAF-5024) entered service with the 204th Iraqi Air Force training squadron at Al-Saib airbase near Basra.

South Korean corporation Korea Aerospace Industries (KAI) signed a $ 1.1 billion contract to supply Iraq with 24 T-50IQ combat training aircraft / light fighters on December 12, 2013. This aircraft is an adapted version of the Iraqi Air Force developed and manufactured by the KAI combat trainer / light fighter FA-50 - a variant of the T-50 Golden Eagle combat trainer jointly developed by KAI and Lockheed Martin. At the time of conclusion, this contract was the largest one-time agreement on the sale of South Korean weapons for export, and remains the largest contract for the supply of T-50 series aircraft abroad. The cost of the contract included the training of Iraqi flight and ground personnel. Subsequently, KAI also entered into several contracts for the integrated support of Iraqi aircraft for a period of 25 years, with a total value of $ 2 billion.

Under the terms of the contract, supplies of the Iraqi Air Force T-50IQ aircraft should be launched in April 2016 and completed within 12 months by April 2017. The first T-50IQ aircraft made its first flight at the KAI facility in Sancheon on July 13, 2015, and the first five aircraft were formally handed over to the Iraqi Air Force in Sancheon in December 2015. In fact, deliveries were significantly delayed due to the financial problems of the Iraqi side and the delay in the training of Iraqi personnel. Only in March 2017, the first six T-50IQ aircraft (tail numbers from IQAF-5001 to IQAF-5006) were delivered to Iraq in Basra, the commissioning of which was delayed until the end of 2017. The second batch of six T-50IQ aircraft was delivered in June 2018, another six in October 2018, and the final delivery of all 24 aircraft to Iraq was completed only now.

In fact, in the Iraqi Air Force, T-50IQ aircraft are used not only for advanced training and transitional aircraft for training the flight crew of Lockheed Martin F-16C / D (F-16IQ) fighters, but also as light fighters and attack aircraft.





https://bmpd.livejournal.com/3857240.html

The missiles are Sidewinders and Mavericks. Looks like the IraqAF fleet of F-16s will slowly wind down due to lack of US maintenance.

Upping the ante and further threatening downward spiraling US-Iraq relations, the Trump administration has now suspended all weapons deliveries to Iraq, including missile systems promised as part a $1.8 billion contract signed in 2016.

Department of Defense officials cited security concerns over the arms deliveries, also amid recent White House threats to actually impose sanctions on the country while completely severing military ties. However, most analysts see these latest threats - which also have been tied with demands the country pay back the "billions" spent on an air base should US forces be made to leave - as but an attempt to leverage greater Baghdad dependency on Washington (and not Tehran).
Iraqi F-16 fighter jet file image.

The late Monday announcement also said US training and support for Iraq's F-16 fleet will pause. Air Force spokesman Brian Brackens said the US will begin shipments again "when the environment in Iraq is safe enough to resume."

https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/us-halts-all-weapons-deliveries-iraq-local-demands-troop-exit-grow

Sell those f-16 to China and buy jf-17 and su-35. Use roubles and Yuan. Fuck US and their dollars.

JohninMK wrote:The missiles are Sidewinders and Mavericks. Looks like the IraqAF fleet of F-16s will slowly wind down due to lack of US maintenance.

well,  F-16 is not the end of the world. True, problems for Iraqi AF but not death sentence. BTW double edged sword too  - it can push Iraq to buy equipment from Russia and started trading crude in Euro. Not to mention India is also watching situation when US offers "new" F-16.

Isos wrote:Sell those f-16 to China and buy jf-17 and su-35. Use roubles and Yuan. Fuck US and their dollars.

Rubles? then Russia first should sell own crude for rubles.

Iran produce both Sidewinders and Mavericks. Iraq could buy them there.

US suspended arms supplies to Iraq

According to the SOFREP web resource, the United States government has suspended arms deliveries to Iraq due to growing concern over the further development of the situation in Iraq and the possibility of US military supplies falling into Iran or into the hands of Iraqi groups hostile to the Americans.

A few weeks ago, most of the personnel of US defense contractors were withdrawn from Iraq as a result of the deteriorating security situation, and the evacuation was completed by January 8, 2020. According to Major Rob Lodewick, spokeswoman for the US Department of Defense, “due to concerns about the safety of their personnel supporting Iraqi F-16 operations at Balad Air Base in Iraq, Lockheed Martin began evacuating its personnel on January 4, 2020.”

The material expresses the opinion that to the greatest extent the cessation of US military supplies to Iraq may affect the operational readiness of F-16IQ fighters, which form the basis of the Iraqi Air Force’s combat potential.


On behalf of bmpd, we recall that the Iraqi Air Force received two $ 36 billion tactical fighter Lockheed Martin F-16IQ Block 52 fighters (24 single-seat F- 16C and 12 double F-16D), together with weapons and equipment. Deliveries to Iraq were made from June 2015 to May 2019, in fact, 32 F-16IQ aircraft out of 36 ordered arrived in Iraq at Balad air base - Iraqi aircraft with flight numbers IAF-1601, 2, 3, 4, 7, 8, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 33, 34, 35, 36. Two more aircraft (IAF-1605 and 1609) were crashed by Iraqi pilots during training in the United States at Tucson Air Force Base (Arizona) in 2015 and 2017, and two more aircraft (IAF-1606 and 1632) remain in the United States for continued use in quality training for Iraqi flight personnel.

https://bmpd.livejournal.com/3922452.html

One of the pitfalls of buying US products. You can end up with an expensive hanger queen.

Still, their mates across the border seem to have cracked the problem of supporting US aircraft after support has gone

Ben Van Heuvelen
@berendvh
·
23h
Iraq’s vaunted F-16 fleet is no longer capable of combat. Its collapse highlights the degradation of the Iraq-US security relationship, deep dysfunction in U.S. foreign military sales, and pervasive corruption at Balad Airbase.

Iraq’s vaunted F-16 fighter jet program has fallen into such disarray that pilots can no longer fly combat missions against the self-proclaimed Islamic State (IS) group – a collapse in military capacity that highlights a broader degradation of the country's security relationship with the U.S. and the effects of pervasive corruption.

In over a dozen interviews with Iraq Oil Report, Iraqi officials and U.S. contractors detailed several criminal schemes and failures of oversight at the Balad Airbase, north of Baghdad, where the jets are housed. Their allegations raise serious questions about the working practices of both the Iraqi Air Force and Sallyport Global Services, the U.S. contractor responsible for providing the base with food, sleeping quarters, security, and fuel supplies.

https://www.iraqoilreport.com/news/iraqs-failing-f-16-program-highlights-corruption-at-balad-airbase-42995/

Meanwhile, someone thinks, if we can't use them may as well rocket them

Spriter
@spriter99880
·
3m
Iraq
The State Security Media Cell in Iraq,
3 missiles fall on Balad Air Base in Salah al-Din Governorate.