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    US-Iran standoff 2019-

    kvs
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    Post  kvs on Sat Jun 22, 2019 3:07 am

    ATLASCUB wrote:
    GarryB wrote:

    Was going to say the Russians would be very interested in seeing that, but perhaps they don't need to... or perhaps already have?

    An old BUK missile clone took it out. What's there to see? lol1  Not only is the hardware in pieces... its effectiveness in combat too.

    The spin machine coming out of the white house is nice to see. At least Trump saved himself from committing the biggest mistake of all of his career.

    US stealth fanbois will just ignore this like they ignored the F-117A shot down over Serbia.

    Stealth fanbois don't know what EM emissions are. All objects absorb and emit. This US wunderwaffe was shining in the night sky and bot blasted.
    No amount of angles and RAM can undo physics.
    Tsavo Lion
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    Post  Tsavo Lion on Sat Jun 22, 2019 4:19 am

    AlfaT8
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    Post  AlfaT8 on Sat Jun 22, 2019 5:56 am

    Ok gents, what assets are we looking at here.
    Air-defense units and their batteries.
    Anti-ship units capabilities
    Ballistic missiles and land attack cruise missile options.
    As well as their Air-Force contingency.
    Tsavo Lion
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    Post  Tsavo Lion on Sat Jun 22, 2019 8:27 am

    The P-8 anti-submarine, anti-surface warfare aircraft "was also violating our airspace and we could have downed it too," said Brig. Gen. Amir Ali Hajizadeh, commander of the Islamic Revolutionary Guards aerospace force, according to Iran's Fars news agency.
    His forces refrained from targeting the P-8 and instead launched a missile at the $100 million-plus Global Hawk "because our aim was to warn the terrorist forces of the U.S.," Hajizadeh said, according to Fars. Late Thursday, Iranian Foreign Minister Javad Zarif rejected U.S. charges that the Global Hawk was in international airspace over the Gulf, and said on Twitter that Iran had retrieved parts of the downed drone in Iranian territorial waters.

    https://www.military.com/daily-news/2019/06/21/iran-chose-take-out-drone-instead-manned-navy-jet-lranian-general-says.html

    For those heavy parts to drift from international airspace from that altitude, the winds would need to be very strong!
    nomadski
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    Post  nomadski on Sat Jun 22, 2019 10:47 am

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKCN1TM2OE

    @ Tsavo lion

    Yes , they can launch cruise missiles from 4000 km range , at a cost of a million dollars each and warhead of 500 kg max !  Even then these are easy target for Iranian SAM  .  Iran can retaliate with anti - ship missiles ....


    As we read , the yanks are withdrawing  technicals from US base in Iraq . The cost ? Four mortar shells . This withdrawal is far better than getting PTSD  . And become POW  . If Americans can keep out of the war , then when Hormuz is closed for a short while . Then there is chance of removal of blockade . Everyone then goes home . No destruction . As far as " territorial " waters , this is a moot point . In past thirty years , many times Iran ignored cruise missile flights by yanks , in it's airspace . Launched from east to west , and south to north west . This time it is sending signal ! Make no mistake .
    JohninMK
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    Post  JohninMK on Sat Jun 22, 2019 11:29 am

    Tsavo Lion wrote:

    Thanks.

    Well worth watching, excellent analytic journalism knifing Bolton.
    magnumcromagnon
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    Post  magnumcromagnon on Sat Jun 22, 2019 12:36 pm

    nomadski wrote:https://www.google.com/amp/s/mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKCN1TM2OE

    @ Tsavo lion

    Yes , they can launch cruise missiles from 4000 km range , at a cost of a million dollars each and warhead of 500 kg max !  Even then these are easy target for Iranian SAM  .  Iran can retaliate with anti - ship missiles ....


    As we read , the yanks are withdrawing  technicals from US base in Iraq . The cost ? Four mortar shells . This withdrawal is far better than getting PTSD  . And become POW  . If Americans can keep out of the war , then when Hormuz is closed for a short while . Then there is chance of removal of blockade . Everyone then goes home . No destruction . As far as " territorial " waters , this is a moot  point . In past thirty years , many times Iran ignored cruise missile flights by yanks , in it's airspace . Launched from east to west , and south to north west . This time it is sending signal ! Make no mistake .

    When did 2500km range become 4000km range?
    JohninMK
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    Post  JohninMK on Sat Jun 22, 2019 12:53 pm



    With Iran increasingly isolated by the West, even by Europe which last year so vocally opposed the US withdrawal from the Iran Nuclear Deal and vowed to create a mechanism that circumvents SWIFT, only to reduce its opposition to zero after Trump threatened to impose sanctions on Europe if it proceeds with its experiment to bypass the dollar, Russia on Friday announced it was ready to help Iran export its crude and ease restrictions on its banking system if Europe fails to launch its dollar-evading SPV, Instex (Instrument in Support of Trade Exchanges) with Tehran, according to Interfax and PressTV.

    The three European signatories to the 2015 nuclear agreement, officially known as the Joint Comprehensive Plan of Action (JCPOA), unveiled late in January the direct non-dollar payment mechanism meant to safeguard their trade ties with Tehran following the US withdrawal from the nuclear deal and in the face of the "toughest ever" sanctions imposed by the United States against the Islamic Republic. In its initial stage, INSTEX would facilitate trade of humanitarian goods such as medicine, food and medical devices, but it will later be expanded to cover other areas of trade, including Iran’s oil sales.

    However, it has not resulted in any trade deals so far. In late May, the US threatened Europe with "loss of access to the US financial system" if it rolled out the SWIFT-evading SPV, which appears to have crushed Europe's enthusiasm to pursue alternative financial transactions with Tehran, forcing it to conceded to Washington (again).

    Earlier this month, Iranian Foreign Ministry Spokesman Abbas Moussavi said European governments have failed to meet their expectations in implementing INSTEX to protect the JCPOA, criticizing their "lack of will" to deal with America's pressure against Tehran.

    "What the Europeans need to do and what they have done so far have failed to win our satisfaction," the Iranian spokesperson said.

    His remarks came after Iranian Foreign Minister Mohammad Javad Zarif in April once again complained about a delay by European partners in the nuclear deal to make operational the payment channel with Tehran, saying they now have "no excuse" for further postponement of the project.

    In order to begin honoring their commitments, the Europeans were required to set up INSTEX, he explained.

    And now that Europe appears to have gotten cold feet about its latest example of anti-Trump virtual signaling, Russia has stepped in. The only question is whether China will follow.


    https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2019-06-21/russia-will-help-iran-oil-banking-if-europes-spv-payment-channel-not-launched
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    par far

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    Post  par far on Sat Jun 22, 2019 4:32 pm

    JohninMK wrote:

    With Iran increasingly isolated by the West, even by Europe which last year so vocally opposed the US withdrawal from the Iran Nuclear Deal and vowed to create a mechanism that circumvents SWIFT, only to reduce its opposition to zero after Trump threatened to impose sanctions on Europe if it proceeds with its experiment to bypass the dollar, Russia on Friday announced it was ready to help Iran export its crude and ease restrictions on its banking system if Europe fails to launch its dollar-evading SPV, Instex (Instrument in Support of Trade Exchanges) with Tehran, according to Interfax and PressTV.

    The three European signatories to the 2015 nuclear agreement, officially known as the Joint Comprehensive Plan of Action (JCPOA), unveiled late in January the direct non-dollar payment mechanism meant to safeguard their trade ties with Tehran following the US withdrawal from the nuclear deal and in the face of the "toughest ever" sanctions imposed by the United States against the Islamic Republic. In its initial stage, INSTEX would facilitate trade of humanitarian goods such as medicine, food and medical devices, but it will later be expanded to cover other areas of trade, including Iran’s oil sales.

    However, it has not resulted in any trade deals so far. In late May, the US threatened Europe with "loss of access to the US financial system" if it rolled out the SWIFT-evading SPV, which appears to have crushed Europe's enthusiasm to pursue alternative financial transactions with Tehran, forcing it to conceded to Washington (again).

    Earlier this month, Iranian Foreign Ministry Spokesman Abbas Moussavi said European governments have failed to meet their expectations in implementing INSTEX to protect the JCPOA, criticizing their "lack of will" to deal with America's pressure against Tehran.

    "What the Europeans need to do and what they have done so far have failed to win our satisfaction," the Iranian spokesperson said.

    His remarks came after Iranian Foreign Minister Mohammad Javad Zarif in April once again complained about a delay by European partners in the nuclear deal to make operational the payment channel with Tehran, saying they now have "no excuse" for further postponement of the project.

    In order to begin honoring their commitments, the Europeans were required to set up INSTEX, he explained.

    And now that Europe appears to have gotten cold feet about its latest example of anti-Trump virtual signaling, Russia has stepped in. The only question is whether China will follow.


    https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2019-06-21/russia-will-help-iran-oil-banking-if-europes-spv-payment-channel-not-launched


    Russia can make a lot of money and get a lot of Iranian oil here.

    As for the war, the Saker does a good job of explaining what happening and what may happen.

    https://southfront.org/the-saker-trump-claims-he-canceled-an-airstrike-against-iran-at-the-very-last-minute/
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    Post  Tsavo Lion on Sat Jun 22, 2019 8:30 pm

    I was expecting this- Russia can buy their oil & sell it as it's own, making a profit or breaking even- even then, it will give Iran the cash flow to buy goods from Russia, China & elsewhere to keep its people from revolting.
    nomadski
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    Post  nomadski on Sat Jun 22, 2019 9:23 pm

    @Tsavo lion

    Can not rely on third party to do it . Russian companies like Rosneft  and Sukhoi withdrew . Why should they come back now , with even more US pressure ? The question is to make sure secondary sanctions lifted altogether . Loose / loose scenario . The economy in west must suffer so much more , come to halt . Then political and economic conditions change on the ground . Nothing  will happen before then . It is all a question of economic necessity  . Any business will choose the bigger market , given the pressures . Must remove this pressure , by creating even greater pressure . Death of your economy  ( no oil , no petrol , no workers turn up ) versus penalty of loosing bigger market ( US sanctions )  survival of economy .

    In this respect , Iran must allow countries that break US sanctions , go get Iran oil . And trade . Free access to Persian Gulf . Those that stick to US sanctions , get no oil or trade or access . No exceptions . Unless ofcourse they are tiny insignificant economy like Bukino faso !

    @ Magnuscromagnus l


    Don't believe  everything you read . They said  that stealthily comanche  helicopter was no longer develops . I knew they lied . They used stealth comanche  to get  Bin ladan ! One crashed , remember ? So 4000 km , it is !

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/AGM-129_ACM
    magnumcromagnon
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    Post  magnumcromagnon on Sun Jun 23, 2019 12:17 am

    nomadski wrote:@Tsavo lion

    Can not rely on third party to do it . Russian companies like Rosneft  and Sukhoi withdrew . Why should they come back now , with even more US pressure ? The question is to make sure secondary sanctions lifted altogether .  Loose / loose scenario . The economy in west must suffer so much more , come to halt . Then political and economic conditions change on the ground . Nothing  will happen before then . It is all a question of economic necessity  . Any business will choose the bigger market , given the pressures . Must remove this pressure , by creating even greater pressure . Death of your economy  ( no oil , no petrol , no workers turn up ) versus penalty of loosing bigger market ( US sanctions )  survival of economy .

    In this respect , Iran must allow countries that break US sanctions , go get Iran oil . And trade . Free access to Persian Gulf . Those that stick to US sanctions , get no oil or trade or access . No exceptions . Unless ofcourse they are tiny insignificant economy like Bukino faso !

    @ Magnuscromagnus l


    Don't believe  everything you read . They said  that stealthily comanche  helicopter was no longer develops . I knew they lied . They used stealth comanche  to get  Bin ladan ! One crashed , remember ? So 4000 km , it is !

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/AGM-129_ACM

    The Commanche was never introduced, the raid helicopter you're talking about is nothing more than a modification of the Black Hawk that emphasized RCS introduction...and it still got shot down 'crashed.' Only Russia and China have cruise missiles with ranges above 4000km, the AGM-129's have been pulled from service.
    nomadski
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    Post  nomadski on Sun Jun 23, 2019 11:34 am

    https://www.tasnimnews.com/en/media/2019/06/21/2037353/iran-showcases-downed-us-drone-wreckage/photo/1


    How about Iran sending some drone pieces  to Russia as present ? Also Russia can send Iran some present ? Always good to work with Russia . Political cooperation can lead to economic cooperation .

    I heard on BBC , that UK had rebuffed  Trump about direct military help against Iran . Instead promising to share intelligence . Well this if true , is an act of war in itself . Sputnik reported the sending of British forces to Persian Gulf . So the English are becoming directly involved ! Time to cut their oil too ! And send their diplomat back .



    https://www.google.com/amp/s/sputniknews.com/amp/military/201906231076025658-uk-elite-commandos-divers-iran/

    So it seems that a probable military conflict will involve the Saudi / UAE and Anglo- Zionist alliance on one side and Iran and allies on other side . With rest of world neutral .

    https://www.tasnimnews.com/en/news/2019/06/22/2038001/iran-summons-uae-charge-d-affaires-over-us-spy-drone-intrusion
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB on Sun Jun 23, 2019 12:32 pm

    I think Russia would appreciate such a present, I am sure there are a lot of things they can both learn from such a present and pass on to Iran to help them in their current situation.

    When the nuke agreement is totally gone Russia can block any attempt to put UN sanctions back onto Iran... Iran kept its side of the bargain, it was the US that destroyed the agreement so why should Iran suffer because of Americas paranoia...

    There should be a lot of joint programmes with Iran... both military and civilian... hopefully Russia and China can show Iran that some countries respect their history and culture and are not going out of their way to destroy all cultures but their own like the west seems dead set on doing.
    crod
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    Post  crod on Sun Jun 23, 2019 12:57 pm

    US claims it launched cyber attack on Iranian rocket systems.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/jun/23/us-launched-cyber-attack-on-iranian-rockets-and-missiles-reports
    kvs
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    Post  kvs on Sun Jun 23, 2019 2:44 pm

    crod wrote:US claims it launched cyber attack on Iranian rocket systems.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/jun/23/us-launched-cyber-attack-on-iranian-rockets-and-missiles-reports

    EW =/= cyber attack. These f*cktard journalists and their handlers are getting absurd. Cyber attack is defined as infiltration
    and disruption of computer systems. Rockets don't have remotely accessible computers for obvious reasons. I will give Iranians
    the benefit of the doubt that they will not open avenues for their enemies to sabotage their systems.

    We'll see how good yanqui EW capabilities are. Aside from dick-stroking arrogance, they really don't have much to show.
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    Post  GarryB on Sun Jun 23, 2019 2:46 pm

    So if Iran wanted to it could be justified in cyber attacking the US electricity grid...
    Regular
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    Post  Regular on Sun Jun 23, 2019 3:33 pm

    kvs wrote:

    US stealth fanbois will just ignore this like they ignored the F-117A shot down over Serbia.  

    Stealth fanbois don't know what EM emissions are.   All objects absorb and emit.   This US wunderwaffe was shining in the night sky and bot blasted.
    No amount of angles and RAM can undo physics.

    Very true. Countries who develop stealth jets are just wasting taxpayer money. This goes to USA as biggest wasteful spender, then China and Russia to some extent. F-22, F-35, Pakfa, J-20, J-23 are evolutionary dead end, overpriced and useless toys that can be anally raped by modernised non stealth F-15 or Su-35.
    Stealth hype should die soon.
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    Post  Regular on Sun Jun 23, 2019 3:37 pm

    par far wrote:


    Russia can make a lot of money and get a lot of Iranian oil here.

    As for the war, the Saker does a good job of explaining what happening and what may happen.

    https://southfront.org/the-saker-trump-claims-he-canceled-an-airstrike-against-iran-at-the-very-last-minute/

    Russia doesn't need more oil. What Russia needs is a good war where Middle Eastern countries will start to burn thus making oil prices go up. Iran being jumped by US is not a solution as it will be very local and when Iran leadership will go US puppets will drive oil price down due to Iran selling off their oil to us companies directly.
    SeigSoloyvov
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    Post  SeigSoloyvov on Sun Jun 23, 2019 4:17 pm

    Regular wrote:
    kvs wrote:

    US stealth fanbois will just ignore this like they ignored the F-117A shot down over Serbia.  

    Stealth fanbois don't know what EM emissions are.   All objects absorb and emit.   This US wunderwaffe was shining in the night sky and bot blasted.
    No amount of angles and RAM can undo physics.

    Very true. Countries who develop stealth jets are just wasting taxpayer money. This goes to USA as biggest wasteful spender, then China and Russia to some extent. F-22, F-35, Pakfa, J-20, J-23 are evolutionary dead end, overpriced and useless toys that can be anally raped by modernised non stealth F-15 or Su-35.
    Stealth hype should die soon.

    First off that F-117A got cocky he kept flying the same route EVERYDAY, this allowed the SAM operators to narrow the bandwidth every time until they could actually detect it. He also had his bomb bay doors open. Not to mention our Prowler's where ground by bad weather at the time.

    No one is saying you cannot lock onto stealth aircraft it's just harder than normal aircraft

    No one is ignoring it happened, but it didn't go down anywhere like guys like him want to pretend.

    The pilot got careless and he made mistakes and he was shot down because of it.

    Calling people fanboi but misrepresenting the facts, Hm Russian fanboy I guess.

    Stealth aircraft aren't a waste of money sure they aren't the wonder weapon defense companies all over portray them has but they have their place.

    Considering how wrecked Serbia and they got lucky and took what five aircraft? while we destroyed 120 of theirs plus tons of other equipment and causes over 30B in economic losses.

    Yes, by all means, brag about that.
    ultimatewarrior
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    Post  ultimatewarrior on Sun Jun 23, 2019 6:57 pm

    SeigSoloyvov wrote:
    Regular wrote:
    kvs wrote:

    US stealth fanbois will just ignore this like they ignored the F-117A shot down over Serbia.  

    Stealth fanbois don't know what EM emissions are.   All objects absorb and emit.   This US wunderwaffe was shining in the night sky and bot blasted.
    No amount of angles and RAM can undo physics.

    Very true. Countries who develop stealth jets are just wasting taxpayer money. This goes to USA as biggest wasteful spender, then China and Russia to some extent. F-22, F-35, Pakfa, J-20, J-23 are evolutionary dead end, overpriced and useless toys that can be anally raped by modernised non stealth F-15 or Su-35.
    Stealth hype should die soon.

    First off that F-117A got cocky he kept flying the same route EVERYDAY, this allowed the SAM operators to narrow the bandwidth every time until they could actually detect it. He also had his bomb bay doors open. Not to mention our Prowler's where ground by bad weather at the time.

    No one is saying you cannot lock onto stealth aircraft it's just harder than normal aircraft

    No one is ignoring it happened, but it didn't go down anywhere like guys like him want to pretend.

    The pilot got careless and he made mistakes and he was shot down because of it.

    Calling people fanboi but misrepresenting the facts, Hm Russian fanboy I guess.

    Stealth aircraft aren't a waste of money sure they aren't the wonder weapon defense companies all over portray them has but they have their place.

    Considering how wrecked Serbia and they got lucky and took what five aircraft? while we destroyed 120 of theirs plus tons of other equipment and causes over 30B in economic losses.

    Yes, by all means, brag about that.

    There are no excuses in war. Human error or not, F-117 was shot down by obsolete AD. And that is embarassing.
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    Post  nomadski on Sun Jun 23, 2019 8:31 pm

    @GarryB

    Thanks for kind words and support . I am looking at the silver lining  of this whole saga  .The silver lining that comes from the brilliant  light of a man made sun , in the atmosphere  . An Iranian sun . (  I am grtting poetic in my old age ) . People need to look into fires of hell , to keep out of it ! Every day we get closer to Iranian ultimatum and deadlind . And look no hands ! No attack by yank . Despite all the " IRANIAN " provocations . If this is what the yanks  are incapable of doing now . What happens when the Iranian sun rises tommorrow ? The yanks do not have the courage of their convictions . They will withdraw . Peace .

    Iranians need to target this particular class or group of international gangsters . An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind . So far they have done extremely  well . Just wait now for the new sun to rise   . Then carry on as before . In the same way Iran will not forget it's friends either . We have very strong FOF recognition systems !
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    Post  GarryB on Mon Jun 24, 2019 4:49 am

    First off that F-117A got cocky he kept flying the same route EVERYDAY, this allowed the SAM operators to narrow the bandwidth every time until they could actually detect it. He also had his bomb bay doors open. Not to mention our Prowler's where ground by bad weather at the time.

    It is supposed to be stealthy... it should not matter if they used the same route every day... the local bus service is quite regular and uses the same route every day but with my eyes closed and unable to see the bus it would never be able to hit the bus with a tennis ball based on the bus schedule.

    The fact is that they claimed it was radar invisible and clearly it was not... those missiles are not Grads... you can't launch them without a lock and with an internal capacity for two bombs those bomb bays flick open and then shut very very quickly so even if he dropped both bombs one after the other and kept the bomb bay doors open for the maximum possible time it would never be enough time to get a lock and a firing solution and launch a missile with the missile having time to get a hit... that is just fantasy.

    No one is saying you cannot lock onto stealth aircraft it's just harder than normal aircraft

    Yeah... did they put that in the brochure for the F-35... 1.5 trillion dollars and it can still be shot down...


    No one is ignoring it happened, but it didn't go down anywhere like guys like him want to pretend.

    The pilot got careless and he made mistakes and he was shot down because of it.

    Your game changer was a turd... it would have been much cheaper and more effective to simply make stealthy cruise missiles... the subsonic F-117 has a range less than most cruise missiles and a payload equal to two cruise missiles yet costs a lot of money to buy and operate compared with cruise missiles which do pretty much the same job.

    Stealth aircraft aren't a waste of money sure they aren't the wonder weapon defense companies all over portray them has but they have their place.

    Keep saying that... F-35s and F-22s don't seem to operate with impunity over Syria let alone China or Russia, so why would they be any better than previous gen fighters that are faster, longer ranged and affordable enough to operate in the thousands... carrying the same weapons.

    Considering how wrecked Serbia and they got lucky and took what five aircraft? while we destroyed 120 of theirs plus tons of other equipment and causes over 30B in economic losses.

    Yeah, bravo... all of NATO managed to trash Serbia and do lots of damage to their country... what a fucken hero you guys are, because Kosovo is now a utopia of peace and prosperity. Ironic that the west frowns upon China harvesting organs from prisoners, but don't give a shit when the leader of Kosovo does it...

    A real moral victory there...

    Yes, by all means, brag about that.

    An American lecturing us on bragging... why shouldn't they brag... the worlds only hyper power and all their mates fought Serbia to a standstill in a conflict that was only supposed to take 3 days to a week... but as usual, when you can't win on the battlefield you start the carpet bombing and threats of economic and political isolation that you go ahead with anyway...

    There are no excuses in war. Human error or not, F-117 was shot down by obsolete AD. And that is embarassing.

    Actually the AD equipment was old but proved effective enough when used with proper tactics... much better equipment has been used to much less effect in the Middle East. No level of equipment would have actually defeated all of NATO, but if Serbia had made the west pay a heavier price I am sure the west would have lowered even their standards and made Serbia suffer more for being a friend of Russia.

    Thanks for kind words and support . I am looking at the silver lining of this whole saga .The silver lining that comes from the brilliant light of a man made sun , in the atmosphere . An Iranian sun . ( I am grtting poetic in my old age ) . People need to look into fires of hell , to keep out of it ! Every day we get closer to Iranian ultimatum and deadlind . And look no hands ! No attack by yank . Despite all the " IRANIAN " provocations . If this is what the yanks are incapable of doing now . What happens when the Iranian sun rises tommorrow ? The yanks do not have the courage of their convictions . They will withdraw . Peace .

    Iranians need to target this particular class or group of international gangsters . An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind . So far they have done extremely well . Just wait now for the new sun to rise . Then carry on as before . In the same way Iran will not forget it's friends either . We have very strong FOF recognition systems !

    It needs to be a Persian sun... an Arab sun would as likely be used against other Arabs as their real enemies local and international... the problem is that American English seems to have changed in recent years... it is no longer that they have changed the colour of words, they have turned words upside down and they no longer have real meaning... words like dictator in Americanspeak can describe a democratically elected person that the west does not approve of... freedom of the press is merely permission to print what they are told to print and nothing else...

    The problem is that Iran is still a signatory party to the non proliferation treaty so they are bound not to develop nuclear weapons... a treaty Israel demands Iran follows to the letter while not signing the same treaty themselves as they have already violated those conditions themselves...

    But then the US with thousands of nuclear weapons and the means to deliver those weapons tells Iran they cannot have nuclear weapons is just as amusing and two faced.
    GarryB
    GarryB

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    Post  GarryB on Mon Jun 24, 2019 4:50 am

    I am torn... I would love to see Iran kick American ass in a conflict, but I know so many Iranians would suffer and Americans would not suffer enough to learn the lessons they so clearly need to learn.
    nomadski
    nomadski

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    Post  nomadski on Mon Jun 24, 2019 10:44 am

    In this loose / loose scenarios , there are three or four basic ones .  A short or long war . A few weeks to few months . With or without Iranian nukes . Iran would suffer most in a short hit and run war . The yanks would suffer a defeat in a long war . Iran needs to close HORMUZ , for extended period of at least two months . To allow yank and world reserves to dry up . And force the world to break sanctions , and trade with Iran . It can not do this in a short war . The yanks will damage yes . And Iran can damage interests of their allies so badly that they loose partners , loose Europe . Become isolated economically  . Plus Iran can demand payment for reparations  because of the war . No reconstruction , then die ! Ofcourse for this to work properly , they need nukes . Because the yanks or others may resort to using them same as when they considered their use in Vietnam and Korea . Doing nothing is no option . Iran will turn into another Yemen ( starvation ) . Capitulation will lead Iran into another yank whorehouse like Thailand . Impossible . So war it is .

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