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    Russian Space Program: News & Discussion #3

    PapaDragon
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    Post  PapaDragon Fri Apr 09, 2021 12:36 am

    Scorpius wrote:Be precise: This is a project of the failed American space station...

    Here is some more precision: Mir-2 is project of a failed Russian space station

    When you insist on precision do not half-ass it

    And ISS (or anything else Russians did between 1990 and 2010 would not have existed without American money which Russians gladly lapped up

    Had it been left to Russians there would be no more space program

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    Post  Big_Gazza Fri Apr 09, 2021 5:35 am

    PapaDragon wrote:Here is some more precision: Mir-2 is project of a failed Russian space station

    It doesn't count as "failed" if the country that planned to build it dissolved before the project could see light.  Heck, its predecessor Mir (1) was still in the process of being completed with additional modules when the USSR broke up, so its a bit rich calling it a failed project.


    Scorpius wrote:By the way, without the Russian transport ships, the ISS would have burned up in the atmosphere long ago. And this is also a fact.

    By the way, without the Russian transport ships, the NASA/ESA/JAXA-portions of ISS would have remained unmanned for the best part of a decade, or the station would have to have been abandoned. And this is also a fact.  Laughing Laughing Laughing

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    kvs
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    Post  kvs Fri Apr 09, 2021 5:45 am

    Big_Gazza wrote:
    PapaDragon wrote:Here is some more precision: Mir-2 is project of a failed Russian space station

    It doesn't count as "failed" if the country that planned to build it dissolved before the project could see light.  Heck, its predecessor Mir (1) was still in the process of being completed with additional modules when the USSR broke up, so its a bit rich calling it a failed project.

    But we are all supposed to know that Russia = fail and USA = win.

    0 or 1 but with 0 being always chosen.

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    Post  lancelot Fri Apr 09, 2021 6:48 am

    Big_Gazza wrote:By the way, without the Russian transport ships, the NASA/ESA/JAXA-portions of ISS would have remained unmanned for the best part of a decade, or the station would have to have been abandoned. And this is also a fact.

    They would have probably let it crash uncontrollably like they did with Skylab.

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    PapaDragon
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    Post  PapaDragon Fri Apr 09, 2021 9:09 am

    Big_Gazza wrote:
    PapaDragon wrote:Here is some more precision: Mir-2 is project of a failed Russian space station

    It doesn't count as "failed" if the country that planned to build it dissolved before the project could see light....

    It doesn't?

    Holy shit that's mindblowing

    Someone get Nazis on the phone, it was success after all !!!

    And haters said they failed Razz lol1

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    Post  thegopnik Fri Apr 09, 2021 9:32 am

    https://3dnews.ru/1035268/novie-rossiyskie-ionnie-dvigateli-proydut-lyotnie-ispitaniya-do-kontsa-tekushchego-desyatiletiya

    19.03.2021 (12:50)
    Yesterday, the research center of M.V. Keldysh, which is part of Roscosmos, announced plans to conduct flight tests of new space ion engines between 2025 and 2030. The specific way of conducting the tests is still under discussion. The first fire tests of one of the prototypes were successfully conducted last summer.

    Пример работы ионного ракетного двигателя. Источник изображения: NASA
    An example of an ion rocket engine. Picture: NASA
    The center has already developed and developed an ion rocket engine with a capacity of 200 w to 35 kW. In particular, we are talking about the prototype ID-200 CD, which was tested in June 2020. Foreign analogues, which are already in production, allow to provide a capacity of 450 to 3500 W with the category of DC (XIPS-13 and NSTAR in the USA and T-5 in the UK) and with ultra-high-frequency discharge capacity up to 750 W (production of Japan). Also on the market is the German ion engine RIT-10 with a high-frequency (radio frequency) discharge.

    Separately, Russian developers mentioned that the preliminary development of the 100 kW engine is underway. "Hopefully we will fly around our products in 2025-2030," the Keldysh Center said.

    Low-power engines are supposed to be used in small spacecraft in low orbits. Powerful ion engines are used in heavy transport systems. The planned lifespan of the ion engines is 15 years. But because the engine in the spacecraft is turned on for a relatively short time, it will obviously survive the spacecraft itself. Such engines can serve as a correction of orbit, as well as for long-range space missions.

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    PapaDragon
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    Post  PapaDragon Fri Apr 09, 2021 9:42 am


    They could use nuclear reactor and electric engine to make something like a space cargo boat where you could have lots of slots to hook up different payload before sending it all to selected destination

    Imagine mission to let's say Io or Europa where you would load up the nuclear cargo spaceship with different probes, satellites and rovers in bulk and send them all in one go

    They would detach near their destination and move on on their own while main ship continues somewhere else with rest and of the payload or return back

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    Post  GarryB Fri Apr 09, 2021 1:11 pm

    So the SR-71 and F-35 wouldn't exist without Russia... the US paid for the Titanium they needed to make them, but it was all Russias Titanium that was paid for so it was their achievements... I doubt they would claim anything to do with the F-35... I think the F-35 with its vectored thrust engine nozzle technology Yakovlev sold the Americas was the best bit of Trojan horse sabotage that has been perpetrated for quite some time...

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    Post  kvs Fri Apr 09, 2021 9:02 pm



    KosmoKurs promised in 2017 to have the first test of its sub-orbital vehicle in 2020. The assembly of the vehicle was supposed to
    start in 2018. As of 2020 there was no hint of a prototype and KosmoKurs still had not patents for "its" vehicle. All it had were
    some CGI renderings.

    Back in 2017 they were claiming to have their own space suit designs and other space tech. None of this exists today.

    The one and only investor KosmoKurs had decided to drop the company and focus on BitCoin. KosmoKurs never found any other
    investors and instead tried to attach itself to the budget of Roscosmos just like Space X feeds off the US government budget.
    "Private company" may ass.

    As I noted previously, the whole "big bad Russian government did not let us build a cosmodrome" is a transparent fig leaf.

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    magnumcromagnon
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    Post  magnumcromagnon Fri Apr 09, 2021 10:11 pm

    kvs wrote:

    KosmoKurs promised in 2017 to have the first test of its sub-orbital vehicle in 2020.    The assembly of the vehicle was supposed to
    start in 2018.   As of 2020 there was no hint of a prototype and KosmoKurs still had not patents for "its" vehicle.   All it had were
    some CGI renderings.  

    Back in 2017 they were claiming to have their own space suit designs and other space tech.   None of this exists today.

    The one and only investor KosmoKurs had decided to drop the company and focus on BitCoin.   KosmoKurs never found any other
    investors and instead tried to attach itself to the budget of Roscosmos just like Space X feeds off the US government budget.
    "Private company" may ass.

    As I noted previously, the whole "big bad Russian government did not let us build a cosmodrome" is a transparent fig leaf.  


    I'm sure they'll rebrand and build Jurassic Parks next, and Vann7 will blame VVP for why there isn't Stegosaurus bus fair and claim Russia isn't as advanced as the Flintstones, meanwhile PapaSmurf will probably be at a random department store stabbing a trampoline box mercilessly with a combat knife.

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    miketheterrible
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    Post  miketheterrible Fri Apr 09, 2021 11:17 pm

    magnumcromagnon wrote:
    kvs wrote:

    KosmoKurs promised in 2017 to have the first test of its sub-orbital vehicle in 2020.    The assembly of the vehicle was supposed to
    start in 2018.   As of 2020 there was no hint of a prototype and KosmoKurs still had not patents for "its" vehicle.   All it had were
    some CGI renderings.  

    Back in 2017 they were claiming to have their own space suit designs and other space tech.   None of this exists today.

    The one and only investor KosmoKurs had decided to drop the company and focus on BitCoin.   KosmoKurs never found any other
    investors and instead tried to attach itself to the budget of Roscosmos just like Space X feeds off the US government budget.
    "Private company" may ass.

    As I noted previously, the whole "big bad Russian government did not let us build a cosmodrome" is a transparent fig leaf.  


    I'm sure they'll rebrand and build Jurassic Parks next, and Vann7 will blame VVP for why there isn't Stegosaurus bus fair and claim Russia isn't as advanced as the Flintstones, meanwhile PapaSmurf will probably be at a random department store stabbing a trampoline box mercilessly with a combat knife.

    Ok, you really made my day.

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    George1
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    Post  George1 Sat Apr 10, 2021 2:58 am

    The Soyuz-2.1a launch vehicle with the Soyuz MS-18 manned spacecraft was launched from the Baikonur cosmodrome
    Today, 12: 27
    34
    Today, April 9, 2021, another crew left for the ISS. The Soyuz-2.1a launch vehicle with the Soyuz MS-18 manned spacecraft was launched from the Baikonur cosmodrome. This is reported by Roskosmos.

    The launch vehicle took place at 10:42 Moscow time. time. from the 31st site of the Baikonur cosmodrome. The rocket was launched normally. After the estimated time, at 10:51, the manned spacecraft separated from the third stage of the rocket, entered orbit and began to move towards the ISS.

    The rapprochement with the station will follow a short two-turn scheme and will take approximately 3,5 hours. The spacecraft docking with the ISS is scheduled for 14:08 Moscow time. time. April 9th. The ship will be docked to the Dawn module.

    The Soyuz MS-18 spacecraft, named Yu.A. Gagarin in honor of the first Soviet cosmonaut, will deliver to the station a new crew consisting of Roscosmos cosmonauts Oleg Novitsky (3rd flight), Pyotr Dubrov (1st flight ) and NASA astronaut Mark Vande Hai (2nd flight).

    The new crew will spend quite a long time at the station. It is planned that Novitsky will return to Zelmya in 191 days, and Dubrov and Wande Hai - almost a year later. Such a schedule is associated with a large amount of planned work, as well as the upcoming filming on board the ISS of episodes of a new Russian feature film about space. For this, an actor or actress will be delivered to the station, currently undergoing selection at Roscosmos.

    https://en.topwar.ru/181811-raketa-nositel-sojuz-21a-s-pilotiruemym-korablem-sojuz-ms-18-startovala-s-kosmodroma-bajkonur.html

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    Post  Scorpius Sat Apr 10, 2021 3:48 am

    God, when the news again throws a tantrum about the "lack of private space companies in Russia" - I always do a facepalm.
    Here is a private Russian company in the space industry: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gazprom_Space_Systems
    None of the journalistic morons chasing hype remembers its existence.
    Just like this one: http://www.softlab-nsk.ru/

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    Post  Big_Gazza Sat Apr 10, 2021 8:05 am

    magnumcromagnon wrote:I'm sure they'll rebrand and build Jurassic Parks next, and Vann7 will blame VVP for why there isn't Stegosaurus bus fair and claim Russia isn't as advanced as the Flintstones, meanwhile PapaSmurf will probably be at a random department store stabbing a trampoline box mercilessly with a combat knife.

    Genuine LOL. Hot coffee down my shirt front... Laughing

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    Post  flamming_python Sun Apr 11, 2021 6:14 am

    kvs wrote:

    KosmoKurs promised in 2017 to have the first test of its sub-orbital vehicle in 2020.    The assembly of the vehicle was supposed to
    start in 2018.   As of 2020 there was no hint of a prototype and KosmoKurs still had not patents for "its" vehicle.   All it had were
    some CGI renderings.  

    Back in 2017 they were claiming to have their own space suit designs and other space tech.   None of this exists today.

    The one and only investor KosmoKurs had decided to drop the company and focus on BitCoin.   KosmoKurs never found any other
    investors and instead tried to attach itself to the budget of Roscosmos just like Space X feeds off the US government budget.
    "Private company" may ass.

    As I noted previously, the whole "big bad Russian government did not let us build a cosmodrome" is a transparent fig leaf.  


    Yeah I'm sorry I don't buy that explanation about the state shedding itself of parasitic con-artists, made by the PolitRussia YouTube channel that justifies absolutely every government decision made.

    I don't know about this company specifically, but if they're looking for a place in Roscosmos for that team, then evidently they can't have been just chilling off of investor funds. And the ultimate reason for the company's dissolution is because the investor walked away eventually. No wonder.

    The explanation about not being able to secure permission for this or that seems entirely believable to me, as a person who actually lives in Russia.

    But the ultimate proof in the pudding is what happened to S7's plans for the sea-launch from Russian waters.
    That plan was suspended about a year ago, even after S7 had already bought the platform and towed it to Russia - that's a lot of investment
    And S7 is certainly not some start-up mickey-mouse company

    Here's what the owner had to say about the postponement then:

    https://www.newsvl.ru/society/2020/04/24/189577

    «Программу мы пока заморозили до лучших времён. Когда мы согласовывали перевозку комплекса в Россию, мне говорили, что условия по размещению будут не хуже, чем в Америке. Не случилось: с финансовой точки зрения хуже вдвое», — признал бизнесмен.

    "We have postponed the program until better days. When we agreed the transfer of the complex to Russia, I was told that the conditions for deployment will be no worse than in America. That didn't happen; from the financial point of view the conditions are twice as bad".

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    Big_Gazza
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    Post  Big_Gazza Sun Apr 11, 2021 8:41 am

    We won't know the truth behind the Sea Launch saga, and I trust the statements of S7 as far as I can throw them.  I suspect that the under-the-table agreement between Russian gov and S7 fell apart when S7 tried to issue a purchase orderr for Ukropi Zenit rockets and the gov told them that they would not permit funds going to support Ukropi Banderite-controlled Yuzmash/Yuznoye.  Ukropi rocket industry needs to wither on the vine until Ukraine (or at least the SE part of it) returns to the Russian-cultural fold, and any plans of S7 that don't take account of national priorities simply will not fly.

    Sea Launch can get back to operation when Soyuz 5 is available, till then it stands mothballed until its time to ractivate.  If S7 can't wait then they are free to develop their own light-class launcher (which they seem to be doing).

    Sea Launch is tied up with serious geopolitical machinations, while KosmoKurs is simply a case of a failed start-up by a local entrapeneur who wasn't up the task of delivering their vision. It would be a mistake to try to conflate the two just to make it fit ones personal narratives.

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    Post  kvs Sun Apr 11, 2021 8:59 am

    Trying to do business with Banderite outfits is pure treason.   You see here why the magical private sector is such a steaming pile of shit.
    Under the guise of some market, it acts like a pack of beta dogs sucking up to the alpha leader which happens to be, in their minds, the
    USA.   So they always try to curry favour with Russia's enemies because they think that serves their interests.  

    It is an unfortunate bi-modal behaviour of the international system. The appearance of an alpha makes all the other dogs betas.
    And companies are political.   You can see this with the current woke US corporations pushing the fake left agenda.   So it is the job of
    the Russian government to crack the whip and keep these dogs in line.

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    Post  owais.usmani Tue Apr 13, 2021 10:29 pm

    https://ria.ru/20210413/finansirovanie-1728049884.html

    MOSCOW, April 13 - RIA Novosti. Funding for scientific space projects of the Federal Space Program for 2016-2025 has been restored to the same level, President of the Academy Alexander Sergeev said at a meeting of the Presidium of the Russian Academy of Sciences .

    "The restoration of funding for the scientific space subsection within the framework of the Federal Space Program has been confirmed," the head of the Russian Academy of Sciences said; the meeting is being broadcast on YouTube.

    "Now a decision has been made to restore funding at the level of 15 billion (rubles per year - ed.), Which will allow us to carry out three missions to the moon : this year Luna-25, in 2024 - Luna-26 and in 2025 year "Luna-27" - he added.

    In November 2020, Sergeev announced that the volume of funding for scientific research in the field of space in Russia until 2025 will be cut five times - to three billion rubles from the planned 12-15 billion rubles.
    Prior to that, the deputy of the State Duma Denis Kravchenko after a meeting with the head of " Roskosmos " Dmitry Rogozin told reporters that may be affected Russian lunar program: according to him, "Luna-26" and "Luna-27" is partially funded, "but then there is a significant sequestration ".

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    Post  owais.usmani Tue Apr 13, 2021 10:37 pm

    https://www.militarynews.ru/story.asp?rid=1&nid=548270&lang=RU

    Moscow. April 12th. INTERFAX - The Russian leadership has approved the decision to create an independent Russian orbital station, the Moskovsky Komsomolets newspaper reported.
    "The project to create an alternative for the ISS was approved on Monday by the President of the country at a closed meeting on the development of the space industry, which was held by Vladimir Putin from Engels," the newspaper said, citing an informed source.
    "It is assumed that the construction of the new ROSS station will begin in the near future in order to prevent a large temporary gap between the conservation of our segment on the ISS and the appearance of a new working area in orbit. The estimated date for the conservation of the old segment of the ISS is 2025," the publication says.
    As noted in the publication, the decision was dictated by the deterioration of a number of modules in the Russian segment.
    The executive director of Roskosmos for manned programs, Sergei Krikalev, on Monday evening was unable to confirm to Interfax the information that Russia would create its own orbital station.
    “I cannot comment on anything, because I don’t know,” he said.
    On April 5, Vladimir Soloviev, Flight Director of the ISS Russian Segment, announced that the life of the ISS could be extended until the 2030s.
    "Next, we plan to think about the completion of the ISS, although until 2030, maybe a little more, we plan to operate it with a smooth completion of the program," Solovyov said.
    In October 2020, Soloviev announced that the corporation's specialists predict "an avalanche-like failure of numerous elements on board the ISS" after 2025. According to him, due to the increased costs, experts consider it necessary "to reconsider the terms of further participation in the program and focus on the implementation of programs for orbital stations."
    The Space Council of the Russian Academy of Sciences, after its report, recommended to revise the terms of the ISS flight program and start developing a new concept for the development of Russian manned space exploration, "including the creation of a national manned infrastructure in near-earth orbit."
    The service life of the ISS expires in 2024. Earlier, it was repeatedly reported about a possible extension of the station's operation until 2030.
    On November 26 last year, Roskosmos reported that in early 2021 it is planned to begin consultations with NASA and other partners on the future fate of the station. On December 28, Deputy Prime Minister Yuri Borisov announced that the fate of the ISS would be determined "in the first quarter of next year."
    On March 4, Yuri Gidzenko, deputy head of the Energia spacecraft and launch vehicle flight center, said that a decision had been made "at the upper levels" to extend the station's operation until 2028.

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    Post  George1 Wed Apr 14, 2021 2:23 am

    Russia to send three missions to Moon by 2026:
    1. Luna-25 this year
    2. Luna-26 in 2024
    3. Luna-27 in 2025

    The Moon has now become a place for the space race (lunar race 2), President of the Russian Academy of Sciences Alexander Sergeyev said

    https://tass.com/science/1277263

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    Post  limb Wed Apr 14, 2021 3:38 am

    Are there any plans for russian lunar rovers? BTW they could be used to assemble separate components in the future, either for bulkier scientific equipment like space telecopes(lunar telescopes would be very efficient) or future bases.
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    Post  Big_Gazza Wed Apr 14, 2021 7:19 am

    limb wrote:Are there any plans for  russian lunar rovers? BTW they could be used to assemble separate components in the future, either for bulkier scientific equipment like space telecopes(lunar telescopes would be very efficient) or future bases.

    Luna 28 is intended to be a sample return & rover mission. The lander will deploy a rover that will collect geological samples, then return to the lander and load the sample canister into the ascent stage for return to Earth. Current mission date is 2027, but its reasonable to expect some delays... It wouldn't be a real Russian space science mission if there wasn't Wink
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    Post  Big_Gazza Wed Apr 14, 2021 7:27 am

    owais.usmani wrote:https://www.militarynews.ru/story.asp?rid=1&nid=548270&lang=RU

    The monolithic nature of the shuttle-assembled ISS has always IMHO been its great achillies heel. Without the shuttle (or a similar vehicle) its not possible to perform any major work on the ISS.  Obsolete or failed modules cannot be discarded, and new modules cannot be connected. The Russian segment however is composed of free-flyers, and its theorectically possible to replace every component, providing the funds are available and the will to do so exists.

    Once ISS is gone, I think its safe to say that future stations will be comprised of collections of free-flyers, or at least modules that are capable of interfacing to space tugs to faciitate their assembly and ultimate disposal.  The Chinese are going that way with Tianhe,  the Russians will build a new ROS, even NASA and their pet ESA cock-holsters are doing it with Lunar Gateway.  Good to see the Soviet-era practise finally winning out in spite of the past ridicule from US shuttle exceptionalists.

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    Post  owais.usmani Thu Apr 15, 2021 1:18 am

    https://tass.ru/kosmos/11129681

    MOSCOW, April 13. / TASS /. Roskosmos plans to spend 1.88 billion rubles on development work (ROC) to create a complex of landing areas and primary service for the reentry vehicle of the manned transport spacecraft Orel, follows from the materials posted on the public procurement portal .

    According to the terms of reference, "the purpose of the design and development work is to create a complex of landing areas and primary servicing of the reentry vehicle (VA) of a manned transport vehicle."

    The work must be completed from the date of the contract until November 15, 2025. The terms of reference state that the complex should include means for evacuating the crew from the reentry vehicle, means for its primary post-flight service, auxiliary and training means, technical systems. "Established landing areas should have the following characteristics: areas are selected on the land territories of Russia; areas should be limited in size, but not less than the specified accuracy of landing VA; the height of the terrain above sea level [should be] no more than 500 m," - says the terms of reference.

    At the same time, the landing areas should be in a deserted place, and rivers, swamps and water bodies should occupy no more than 5% of their territory.

    About the ship "Eagle"
    On February 12, Aleksey Bogomolov, General Designer of the Center for Operation of Ground-Based Space Infrastructure Facilities, announced that the Oryol spacecraft would land in the Orenburg region after a space flight. According to him, the release of the draft design has been successfully completed, which determined the requirements, the composition of the equipment and the technology of work with the reentry vehicle of the ship in the areas of its landing.

    The promising manned spacecraft Orel (formerly the Federation) is being created as part of the Russian lunar program. The first launch of the Eagle without astronauts on board is scheduled for December 15, 2023 from the Vostochny cosmodrome; during this flight, the spacecraft docking with the ISS is not envisaged. In 2024, Oryol will perform a second flight (also without astronauts), followed by docking with the station. In 2028, he should make a manned flight around the moon.

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    Scorpius
    Scorpius

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    Post  Scorpius Fri Apr 16, 2021 2:59 am

    Big_Gazza wrote:
    limb wrote:Are there any plans for  russian lunar rovers? BTW they could be used to assemble separate components in the future, either for bulkier scientific equipment like space telecopes(lunar telescopes would be very efficient) or future bases.

    Luna 28 is intended to be a sample return & rover mission. The lander will deploy a rover that will collect geological samples, then return to the lander and load the sample canister into the ascent stage for return to Earth. Current mission date is 2027, but its reasonable to expect some delays...  It wouldn't be a real Russian space science mission if there wasn't  Wink

    Luna-28 will actually be a prototype manned lander, just remotely controlled.

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