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    Russian Space Program: News & Discussion #3

    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Sat Jan 16, 2021 3:43 am

    There is the potential for a two stage craft that takes off from a normal though possibly rather long airfield, where the takeoff part is more conceptually like a Tu-160 type large supersonic aircraft except instead of the current nose portion you might have a second stage component with a combined scramjet and rocket propulsion.

    The main aircraft would have a combined turbojet/ramjet engine that allows the whole aircraft to takeoff with wings swept forward like a conventional plane and then as it climbs and accelerates to say mach 4-5 on the ramjets to altitudes of 30-40km the main stage separates and starts up a scramjet motor that accelerates the second stage to mach 26-27 and orbital speeds where it would angle itself upwards to leave the atmosphere, where onboard oxygen could be burned with the scramjet fuel like a rocket motor with the intake closed off.... or much safer... a nuclear reactor that super heats nitrogen and blows it out the back of the aircraft in space... no combustion needed... just superheat it in a reactor to turn a liquid into a super hot gas for propulsion.

    The body of the aircraft could then land as normal with wings swept forward like a plane would with working engines.

    Because it remains inside the atmosphere it can burn fuel and use oxygen from the air it travels through which is much more efficient than any rocket.

    Obviously eventually we will be using nuclear powered ion engines of enormous thrust and a small fighter like an X wing can take off from a planet and fly to another star system like in Star Wars... Obviously because that is what Sci Fi tells us... Twisted Evil

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    kvs
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    Post  kvs Sat Jan 16, 2021 8:33 am

    Even though there has been lots of talk about space-planes (e.g. HOTOL), none of them even got to the prototype stage.
    The scramjets are just too hard to implement since they require cooling not to ablate out of existence. I recall designs
    feeding hydrogen through tubules spread beneath the surface. Again, this was some sort of conceptual hot air.

    It really looks like some refinement of detonation egines is the way to go. The thermodynamic cycle of detonation engines
    is much more efficient than the Brayton cycle applicable for ramjets and scramjets.

    https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1000936115002356

    The Brayton cycle engines have been squeezed for all they are worth.



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    Daniel_Admassu


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    Post  Daniel_Admassu Sat Jan 16, 2021 8:00 pm

    kvs wrote:

    It really looks like some refinement of detonation egines is the way to go. The thermodynamic cycle of detonation engines is much more efficient than the Brayton cycle applicable for ramjets and scramjets.

    https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1000936115002356

    The Brayton cycle engines have been squeezed for all they are worth.


    Very interesting line of research. It seems to me a way has been found to further increase chamber temperature/pressure for which the pretty much open flow classic turbine was approaching the limit.

    Around the introduction it stated that the rocket engine version of CRDE was realized in Russia and Poland. Anyone knows about this? It would be great to know if it was put into use.
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Sun Jan 17, 2021 5:16 am

    The point is that right now a one ship to orbit and long range space travel is science fiction, but technology can eventually make things that we think today are impossible.

    If we can better understand how gravity works... is it a field or a beam or an energy or a feature of matter.

    A way of cancelling gravity making something with mass essentially weightless would be transformational... being able to turn the gravity of the earth that pulls matter towards it and reverse it so the gravity of the earth actually pushes a space craft into space... once in space you could massively increase the weight of an object and eject it from the craft for propulsion... a dozen atoms of nitrogen accelerated to three quarters the speed of light and ejected out the back of the space craft in the opposite direction you want to travel and just before it is ejected use a gravity field to make it equal to 1,000 tons in weight... the impulse from 1,000 tons of weight moving at a large fraction of the speed of light leaving an almost weightless spaceship... the acceleration would be enormous... so an onboard gravity field would be needed to protect from the massive acceleration...

    Of course that is extreme... single nitrogen atoms weighing half a kg each could be launched at more moderate speeds to gradually accelerate the space ship, or just gravity beams directed at bodies in space like the earth and moon and sun and jupiter to accelerate...

    Or actively distorting the shape of space to move massive distances at a time.
    Kiko
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    Post  Kiko Mon Jan 18, 2021 12:56 am

    Just into space: RAS scientists create a breakthrough engine for satellites
    It will use metal-dielectric plates as fuel, the supply of which will last for 10 years of autonomous operation.
    Denis Gritsenko
    January 13, 2021

    Russian scientists have proposed a qualitatively new type of engine for work in outer space. It is based on the principle of plasma excitation using a microwave spark discharge. Such a unit can be installed on small-format satellites. Unlike the gas-fueled satellite engines common today, the new device will use special metal-dielectric plates as an energy source, the supply of which will be enough for 10 years of autonomous operation. A plate with a radius of 10 cm can replace 1.5 thousand cubic meters of gas fuel. In the future, new engines can be used to explore the solar system.

    Small but smart

    Scientists of the Institute of General Physics named after A.M. Prokhorov Russian Academy of Sciences are ready to create a prototype of a new type of engine for operation in outer space. According to their idea, the movement should occur due to the use of a new type of discharge described by them, which arises in a gaseous medium as a result of the action of microwave radiation. Physicists called it the microwave spark discharge (MIR).

    - The engine offered by us has a number of advantages. The main one is that a metal-dielectric disk is used as a solid fuel in the system, '' said Igor Kossyi, head of the laboratory of gas-kinetic phenomena in the microwave discharge of the GPI RAS.

    With the help of MIR, it is possible to act on a metal-dielectric material in such a way as to excite a plasma, which will propel the aircraft forward. The power of such an engine will be relatively small, but sufficient for driving in a vacuum. Therefore, the developers propose to start using it on light small-scale near-earth satellites, which are in demand today in Russia and in the world.

    The source of electromagnetic radiation in the new engine can be a standard magnetron used in conventional microwave ovens. The dimensions of the equipment are 50x50x100 cm, weight - 2 kg. The cost price of the new unit is about € 1 thousand.

    The engine requires a metal dielectric plate as fuel. For example, a Plexiglas disk 10 cm in diameter and 2 cm thick can serve as a source of 1.5 thousand cubic meters of gas, which is necessary for plasma generation. Solid fuel will significantly reduce the size of the satellite due to the part of it that stores the gas in cylinders used today for the movement of spacecraft. According to the calculations of the GPI RAS specialists, the supply of the fuel dielectric on board the small spacecraft may be sufficient for 10 years of autonomous operation.

    The complexity of the implementation of the proposed engine and its analogs - in a relatively weak thrust. The power of the mechanical impulse that the satellite acquires as a result of the operation of the device is small. But the authors of the development have an idea how to enhance this characteristic. Current calculations of mechanical impulse have been made from a motor design in which microwave radiation is applied directly to a metal-dielectric surface. If the microwaves arrive at the plasma-generating surface, passing through the radio-transparent thickness of the dielectric disk, in theory this can significantly increase the mechanical impulse. But the hypothesis has yet to be confirmed during the experiment.

    Wait for the tests

    Experts in the field of space technology, interviewed by Izvestia, reacted to the proposed technical solution of the GPI RAS with cautious optimism. From their point of view, the idea of ​​a plasma engine is interesting, but for the final assessment, you need to wait for its embodiment "in hardware".

    “The concept of the engine proposed by Russian scientists has an important advantage: the working fluid in it is initially in a solid, not a liquefied state,” said Alexei Baigashev, head of the Astronomical Society of the Immanuel Kant Baltic Federal University.

    According to the expert, all other things being equal to the engine, this will significantly reduce the volume occupied by the fuel, simplify storage, transportation and preparation of the spacecraft for launch. The key issue is testing the stated concept in a real spacecraft. Probably, after the development of a new engine and its ground tests, the researchers will launch a test microsatellite, which, with its low mass and cost of launching into orbit, will allow to fully study the operation of the propulsion system in real conditions.

    “Implementation of an ion engine with such a plasma source requires a constructive solution and testing in experiments,” noted Oleg Tsybin, professor at the Peter the Great St. Petersburg Polytechnic University's Higher Engineering and Physics School (the university is a participant in the 5-100 education competitiveness project).

    We need practical solutions to the problems of materials and technology of a solid surface, its resistance, destruction, thermodynamics, the type and acceleration of ions, their neutralization, the expert explained. After solving them, the advantages and disadvantages of the engine and its capabilities will be more clear.

    Adjust trajectory

    It is possible that the MIR engines will be useful in a situation when it is necessary to save chemical fuel and correct the ballistic trajectory for a long flight time, believes Alexander Efremov, director of the Educational and Scientific Institute of Gravity and Cosmology of the RUDN University.

    “However, so far we have no data on their parameters and capabilities,” he said.

    The advantage of a potential installation based on a microwave spark discharge, if it is operational, is an accelerated flight to various celestial bodies without the consumption of a working medium, or with minimal consumption. However, such a technical solution still raises questions, since it has never been practically implemented, said Denis Malygin, candidate of technical sciences, chief designer of the Astronomicon laboratory and employee of the Department of Photonics at ETU LETI. Experimental data do not unequivocally confirm or refute the performance of such an installation, this is due, among other things, to the small value of the expected effect, comparable to the measurement errors, the expert noted.

    Such engines with ionic thrust are applicable only in space vacuum and cannot move vehicles through the atmosphere, Denis Malygin argues, since ion engines do not work in the presence of ions outside the engine. Such devices have a high power consumption (1–7 kW), and power generation on small satellites is very limited. Moreover, to achieve acceleration, a new type of engine requires a long work, which again brings back to the question of satellite power, he added.

    - Interesting idea. It can find application in shunting engines, which are used in the orientation and stabilization systems of spacecraft, ”said Anastasia Khramtsova, head of the Aerospace Systems direction of the FEFU design center.

    For propulsion engines, the declared thrust is very low, she said. The question is how much energy is needed for the installation to work - this is a decisive factor when choosing an engine for a satellite.

    https://yandex.ru/turbo/iz.ru/s/1103484/denis-gritcenko/prosto-v-kosmos-uchenye-ran-sozdaiut-proryvnoi-dvigatel-dlia-sputnikov?promo=navbar&utm_referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fzen.yandex.com

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    PapaDragon
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    Post  PapaDragon Tue Jan 19, 2021 11:10 pm


    This shit is too good and article is trying to spin it as a good thing, looks like Trampoline Man has groupies at RT as well lol1

    American astronauts on ISS give their food to Russian cosmonauts after supplies run out

    https://www.rt.com/russia/512990-iss-astronauts-supply-share/

    ... Earth might be seeing a new Cold War, but Russia and the US are as friendly as ever up in space. After a postponed shipment, American astronauts on the International Space Station have donated food to their Russian counterparts.

    The Progress MS-16 spacecraft, which was due to be launched on December 11, would have brought rations to Russian cosmonauts stationed on the ISS. Its delay to February 15 prompted the Americans to share some of their own food....

    I guess Americans saved Russian from starving yet again, first chicken legs in the 90's and now this (at least it tastes better)

    Looks like keeping some extra food supplies on board is too much to demand from Rogozin's little money siphoning outfit formerly known as Roskosmos, I mean it's such a demanding feat both technologically and logistically Razz





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    thegopnik
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    Post  thegopnik Tue Jan 19, 2021 11:24 pm

    PapaDragon wrote:
    This shit is too good and article is trying to spin it as a good thing, looks like Trampoline Man has groupies at RT as well   lol1

    American astronauts on ISS give their food to Russian cosmonauts after supplies run out

    https://www.rt.com/russia/512990-iss-astronauts-supply-share/

    ... Earth might be seeing a new Cold War, but Russia and the US are as friendly as ever up in space. After a postponed shipment, American astronauts on the International Space Station have donated food to their Russian counterparts.

    The Progress MS-16 spacecraft, which was due to be launched on December 11, would have brought rations to Russian cosmonauts stationed on the ISS. Its delay to February 15 prompted the Americans to share some of their own food....

    I guess Americans saved Russian from starving yet again, first chicken legs in the 90's and now this (at least it tastes better)

    Looks like keeping some extra food supplies on board is too much to demand from Rogozin's little money siphoning outfit formerly known as Roskosmos, I mean it's such  a demanding feat both technologically and logistically  Razz



    I pretty much get it that you like to shitpost Rogozin as much as this forum likes to shitpost Musk's endeavors to get to Mars. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Heads_of_Roscosmos I dont see how any of the before figures are any better, you want a scientist related background to be head?
    Big_Gazza
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    Post  Big_Gazza Tue Jan 19, 2021 11:31 pm

    PapaDragon wrote:
    This shit is too good and article is trying to spin it as a good thing, looks like Trampoline Man has groupies at RT as well   lol1

    American astronauts on ISS give their food to Russian cosmonauts after supplies run out

    https://www.rt.com/russia/512990-iss-astronauts-supply-share/

    ... Earth might be seeing a new Cold War, but Russia and the US are as friendly as ever up in space. After a postponed shipment, American astronauts on the International Space Station have donated food to their Russian counterparts.

    The Progress MS-16 spacecraft, which was due to be launched on December 11, would have brought rations to Russian cosmonauts stationed on the ISS. Its delay to February 15 prompted the Americans to share some of their own food....

    I guess Americans saved Russian from starving yet again, first chicken legs in the 90's and now this (at least it tastes better)

    Looks like keeping some extra food supplies on board is too much to demand from Rogozin's little money siphoning outfit formerly known as Roskosmos, I mean it's such  a demanding feat both technologically and logistically  Razz


    You talk about "spin" and then proceed to unload this great steaming pile of horseshit on the forum??? Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing

    The way you rage about Rogozin is like a jilted ex-lover looking for revenge....

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    PapaDragon
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    Post  PapaDragon Tue Jan 19, 2021 11:32 pm

    thegopnik wrote:.... you want a scientist related background to be head?

    Rogozin was dumped on Roskosmos so he would not do any damage in more important segments

    He is a moron and needs to go

    Put the janitor in charge for all I care, even that guy would know not to say dumb shit about things he isn't able to comprehend and save them the embarrassment

    It would at least be a start


    PapaDragon
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    Post  PapaDragon Tue Jan 19, 2021 11:34 pm

    Big_Gazza wrote:....You talk about "spin" and then proceed to unload this great steaming pile of horseshit on the forum???    

    The way you rage about Rogozin is like a jilted ex-lover looking for revenge....

    Do you have something to refute the article?

    I'm all ears

    C'mon defend the Trampoline Man's honor, Internet is his battleground he is counting on you, his loyal soldier! Razz
    Big_Gazza
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    Post  Big_Gazza Wed Jan 20, 2021 2:58 am

    PapaDragon wrote:Do you have something to refute the article?

    I'm all ears

    C'mon defend the Trampoline Man's honor, Internet is his battleground he is counting on you, his loyal soldier! Razz  

    MS-16 is delayed. Yeah, shit happens. My issue is your nonsense comment....

    Rogozin's little money siphoning outfit

    Really? Suspect Hmmm... its hard to take someone seriously when they have a tantrum, throw their toys from the cot, and them make up absurd BS to justify their irrational hate.

    PapaDragon
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    Post  PapaDragon Wed Jan 20, 2021 3:11 am

    Big_Gazza wrote:
    PapaDragon wrote:Do you have something to refute the article?

    I'm all ears

    C'mon defend the Trampoline Man's honor, Internet is his battleground he is counting on you, his loyal soldier! Razz  

    MS-16 is delayed. Yeah, shit happens. My issue is your nonsense comment....

    Rogozin's little money siphoning outfit

    Really? Suspect Hmmm... its hard to take someone seriously when they have a tantrum, throw their toys from the cot, and them make up absurd BS to justify their irrational hate.

    You trying to be "serious" doesn't change the fact that your fat dumb waifu fucked up again

    Russia is officially unable to keep it's own personnel in orbit fed on his watch, this didn't happen even during USSR when they barely had food for those on the ground

    Plenty of American supply missions got cancelled (or straight up blew up) over the decades yet they never ran out of food

    All y'all still deep throating Rogozin even after learning this is beyond pathetic


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    x_54_u43
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    Post  x_54_u43 Wed Jan 20, 2021 3:29 am

    This is fucking retarded, even if the Americans weren't there, the Cosmonauts would NOT have starved, there is always a topped off dry ration supply on board the station. What this shitty RT article refers to is the Americans simply "shared" the standard food that is resupplied on the regular missions that tastes significantly better than the dry ration supply. The dry ration supply is enough for literally 1 year of no resupply.

    Oh and if you think Russians have never shared their food with Americans(or all the other foreign nations), you're fucking delusional. Plenty of non-Russian resupply craft have failed to reach the ISS, and you know what? This was accounted for, and there was still supplies onboard, plus emergency missions available to resupply the station.

    But of course, fucking drama queen does it again.

    It's almost as if all the nations work together to operate and resupply the INTERNATIONAL SPACE STATION, which includes food supplies!

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    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Wed Jan 20, 2021 10:47 am

    Of course they are going to share their food with the Russians... there is a good chance they might need Russian rockets to get them back to earth... Twisted Evil

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    Post  Big_Gazza Sat Jan 30, 2021 12:10 am

    Article by Anatoly Zak.  Interesting stuff even if he is another one of these Euro-Atlantacist sovok jew russophobic Putin-haters...

    Roskosmos is promoting a reusable rocket.

    source

    Start preliminary design

    In 2020, after nearly two decades of research, the Russian space industry embarked on the development of a next-generation mid-range rocket designed to replace the Soyuz family of launch vehicles. Unlike a number of previous Soyuz design projects relying on traditional kerosene-fueled engines, the latter is to switch to newly developed engines fueled by cryogenic-temperature liquid methane from available and cheap natural gas.

    Russia's efforts reflect technological trends around the world. Methane is now considered the best fuel for reusable rockets due to its "clean" combustion process, which leaves little soot in the main engine.

    In June 2020, Roskosmos approved the Terms of Reference for the outline design of the Amur-LNG rocket , previously known as Soyuz-5 or Soyuz-LNG. (LNG - Russian abbreviation - Liquefied Natural Gas ).

    On October 5, 2020, Roscosmos signed a contract with RCC Progress, the manufacturer of the Soyuz-2 launch vehicle, to develop a preliminary design of the Amura-LNG launch vehicle in the amount of 407 million rubles (about $ 5.4 million).

    The two-stage medium-class launch vehicle was promised to be launched for the first time in 2026 from the modernized Soyuz complex at the Vostochny cosmodrome. According to the head of Roscosmos Dmitry Rogozin, financing of the construction of a filling and launching complex for the Amur rocket will be implemented in the third phase of the Vostochny construction after the completion of the second phase in 2023, which provides for the construction of a launch complex for the Angara missile family at the cosmodrome.

    Due to the presence of Soyuz-2 launch sites at several cosmodromes, including Baikonur and Plesetsk, as well as the very low load on the Soyuz-2 launch pad on Vostochny, Roskosmos could probably decommission the existing complex for its conversion into the "Amur" launch pad without much influence on the launch program of the "Soyuz-2" rocket. In addition, the construction of the "Amur" site could de facto replace the much more expensive plan to build a launch pad for a super-heavy rocket, the development of which practically stopped in 2020.  [calling bullshit on this.  Zak is a wanker who so loves to inject his fake prophecies of Doom]

    On January 9, 2021, Rogozin announced several more details about the Amur-LNG rocket. According to his Facebook post, the rocket will have a fully automated pre-launch system, make extensive use of lightweight composite materials to replace metals, and use a reusable first stage capable of up to 100 flights. Because methane fuel will be pumped into the tanks under the same cryogenic conditions as liquid oxygen (which serves as an oxidizer), the fuel and oxidizer tanks can be combined into a single structure separated by a thin bulkhead, further simplifying the design and saving weight.

    In the next post, Rogozin also confirmed that the Russian super-heavy project will now be based on the Amur-LNG family, rather than on the kerosene Soyuz-5.   [sounds suspect to me      Why build a SHLV from modules that have a 9-12.5T to LEO capacity rather than Soyuz 5 with its 17T?]

    The Amur-LNG was supposed to use either the standard 81KS payload fairing inherited from the Soyuz-2 family, or the newly developed wider fairing with a diameter of 5 meters for especially large payloads. Russian experts have also begun to explore the possibility of soft landing and reuse of fairings from Amur missiles, an industry source told RussianSpaceWeb.com .

    Soft landing equipment

    According to industry sources, in early 2021, the Amur-LNG concept design was undergoing rapid evolution on the drawing board before its architecture was approved for a more detailed design.

    One of the key features that remained unchanged at the time was the first stage landing legs. Although publicly released images of Amur LNG showed the launch vehicle landing on what appeared to be a replica of SpaceX's Falcon landing legs, in fact, Russian experts were evaluating three different landing leg designs. Only one of them bore some resemblance to the system used by SpaceX, but was less likely, according to an industry source, to have been adopted for full-scale development. Another proposal reportedly included a classic look with support legs, but wider and shorter than on Falcon rockets, and a third configuration had a fixed structure integrated with the engine compartment structure.

    Russian Space Program: News & Discussion #3 - Page 25 U7ajga10
    Russian Space Program: News & Discussion #3 - Page 25 00111310

    Possible payloads

    With a payload of up to nine tonnes for low-earth orbit, LEO Amur-LNG will be well positioned to fulfill all federal, commercial and military missions previously performed by Soyuz-2 missiles, whose payload is limited to eight tonnes. Roscosmos argued that the Amur-LNG project is focused on commercial exploitation and should correspond to a mission price of no more than $ 22 million. It was assumed that the rocket will serve both light and medium market segments. Depending on the task, due to additional fuel, the Amur variants could have a consumable and reusable option, as well as between the return of the first stage to the launch pad or landing at a distance from the Vostochny.

    In early 2021, Russian specialists also began to study possible manned spacecraft that could take advantage of the Amur-LNG rocket. One of the candidates was the reusable manned spacecraft MTKS Argo, proposed by S7 for commercial missions, and the manned spacecraft PTK-M Orlyonok, conceptualized by RSC Energia in 2020, as the first step in Russia's lunar exploration program.

    Methane engine

    The main technical task of the Amur-LNG project was the development of a new generation methane engine, designated RD-0169. According to the formal assignment for the Amur-LNG propulsion system, the serial version of the engine must be able to operate at least 10 times or make from 25 to 50 starts. In the course of preliminary design from 2016 to 2019, the KBKhA design bureau in Voronezh has already conducted research on the processes of mixing and ignition of fuel in methane engines, and even some engine components have been brought to autonomous tests.

    In May 2020, Roscosmos signed a contract with KBKhA worth 6.3 billion rubles ($ 83.66 million) for the full-scale development of the RD-0169 engine until the end of 2025. However, due to the complexity of the RD-0169 project, it was decided to develop an experimental engine demonstrator called RD-0177.

    The contract for the development of RD-0177 worth 765.78 million rubles ($ 10.1 million) was awarded to the same company on September 29, 2019. This stage of work should be completed by November 15, 2021.

    Although the RD-0169 engine has a thrust of 85 tons, the two-ton prototype engine will have experimental versions of the gas generator and combustion chambers designed to test key processes in these components, such as ignition and shutdown. These are the most important and difficult to predict stages in the operation of a rocket engine, when new systems that have not yet been calibrated tend to fall prey to high frequency vibrations.

    On June 3, 2020 Roskosmos announced that NPO Energomash had completed firing tests of a generator model for RD-0177, having tested various nozzle designs. According to the company, these tests were to be followed by the development of the combustion chamber.

    In August 2020, the head of the Russian propulsion development group, which includes Energomash and KBKhA, said that the gas generator and mixing head for RD-0177 had been tested, and the industry was switching to engine production. However, by that time, the appearance of the first working version of RD-0177 was expected not earlier than 2022 or 2023.

    Russian Space Program: News & Discussion #3 - Page 25 Rd-01610
    Demonstration engine RD-0162-D2A with a thrust of 40 tons, which made 10 test launches in December 2016.

    The role of RD-0169 in the Amur-SAU project

    Although the nominal thrust of the RD-0169 engine was originally designed for 85 tons, the design of the engine provides for the possibility of increasing thrust well above this level. At the beginning of 2021, a throttling factor of 1.33 was specified for RD-0169. This means that the most powerful version of the engine, with a thrust of 95 tons, is suitable for the first stage of Amur-LNG.

    An early design of the reusable first stage, conceptually developed in 2020, involves a group of five engines operating during launch and flight. The central motor has the ability to restart to provide the first stage braking maneuver after separation. Then the same engine was started a third time to ensure a soft landing on the landing pad. The developers also proposed a four-engine, single-use first stage option, providing a higher payload for the entire rocket due to the lack of fuel reserves for landing.

    The deep throttling mode on individual engines will allow the first stage to successfully launch into orbit, even if one of the engines fails, by commanding the rest of the engines to increase thrust.

    According to the initial plans, the second stage of the Amur-LNG rocket was also supposed to use a vacuum version of the RD-0169 engine with thrust from 85 to 110 tons with a modified nozzle. However, in early 2021, engineers were considering converting the second stage to kerosene fuel due to the thrust limitation provided by RD-0169, an industry source told RussianSpaceWeb.com . This decision was probably prompted by plans to use the second stage not only for entering the initial orbit, but also for subsequent maneuvers in orbit.

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    Post  kvs Sat Jan 30, 2021 12:55 am

    So the real detail is that Russia has been working on a reusable rocket for over 20 years, including the engines, and is now
    greenlighting the completion of the project. It is not arriving late at the party. This is the same as with the nuclear propulsion
    system, which was worked on since the 1970s and brought to completion.

    As for Zak's claims about Soyuz-5. What a wanker indeed. Pure fantasy projection. The reason why this clown wants
    to fervently believe that the Soyuz-5 will never happen is because it will be used to construct the world's leading SHLV.
    More powerful than the Saturn V and less expensive. Zak wants Russia to always be associated with the N-1 since
    his anti-Russian agenda is to always paint Russians as intellectually inadequate and unable to come through on complex
    projects. Only the USA and its minions can be leaders in human intellectual activity. That is the core of the propaganda
    I have bee seeing since the 1970s in the west.

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    Post  PapaDragon Sat Jan 30, 2021 1:33 am

    Big_Gazza wrote:...
    Russian Space Program: News & Discussion #3 - Page 25 U7ajga10
    ....

    Zak is a dickhole but to his credit he does make pretty pictures

    If you have access to his shit post some more of it

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    Post  Big_Gazza Sat Jan 30, 2021 1:43 am

    PapaDragon wrote:Zak is a dickhole but to his credit he does make pretty pictures

    If you have access to his shit post some more of it


    Agreed 100% Very Happy . It's a real shame that Zak can't just be content to report accurately and without bias or agenda. I really like his website but the endless negativity is galling.

    BTW I found that article on vk.com and don't have access to the material behind Zaks firewall. I'm in two minds, cough up some dough and satisfy my curisoity, or stick to principles and not feed those whose politics I despise. So far principles are winning out! Laughing
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    Post  PapaDragon Sat Jan 30, 2021 2:03 am

    Big_Gazza wrote:.....
    ....BTW I found that article on vk.com and don't have access to the material behind Zaks firewall.  I'm in two minds, cough up some dough and satisfy my curisoity, or stick to principles and not feed those whose politics I despise.  So far principles are winning out! Laughing

    You are right, don't give money to that douchenozzle

    You should take that money and buy GameStop stonks thumbsup

    I would have done it already but we can't buy US stocks from here (at least not without colossal hassle)

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    Post  miketheterrible Sat Jan 30, 2021 2:07 am

    Don't worry, most can't buy the stocks either cause of malpractice of the apps such as Robinhood
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    Post  Daniel_Admassu Sat Jan 30, 2021 2:09 am

    I am a bit confused by the judgment towards Anatoly Zak you guys have. In my opinion he has given the Russian space industry a very good historical and technical coverage with some original research and on-site journalism. Yes, he is not shy about mentioning shortcomings and mistakes but he is about the only one out there that documents the real progresses as well. I specially enjoy his launch coverage articles.

    But you may also be right in some sense because I have noticed that he sometimes tries to cater for his western media sponsors who sometimes publish his work by including a few biased political remarks, such as exaggeration of corruption or 'annexation' of Crimea. I take those as the occasional bone to the dogs. However I am not sure what the state of things these days are since he locked most of his articles as pay-for. It is a shame.
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    Post  Big_Gazza Sat Jan 30, 2021 2:30 am

    Daniel_Admassu wrote:I am a bit  confused by the judgment towards Anatoly Zak you guys have. In my opinion he has given the Russian space industry a very good historical and technical coverage with some original research and on-site journalism. Yes, he is not shy about mentioning shortcomings and mistakes but he is about the only one out there that documents the real progresses as well. I specially enjoy his launch coverage articles.

    But you may also be right in some sense because I have noticed that he sometimes tries to cater for his western media sponsors who sometimes publish his work by including a few biased political remarks, such as exaggeration of corruption or 'annexation' of Crimea. I take those as the occasional bone to the dogs. However I am not sure what the state of things these days are since he locked most of his articles as pay-for. It is a shame.

    You're correct on both counts.

    Zak does a good job of covering historical Soviet-era programs and what criticism he makes are few and well-founded. The shit-show of conflicting egos and political games between rival design houses (Chelomei & Glushko vs Korolev & Mishin) contributed much to the ultimate failure of the N1 program for instance.

    It's his endless petty spitefulness against current-day developments that leave me with a sour taste. His political allegances lie with the US-controlled Atlantacist mindset and US cultural groupthink, and his biased coverage of current affairs in Russian space is an unfortunate result.
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    Post  kvs Sat Jan 30, 2021 2:41 am

    Zak likes to doom monger. He spent a lot of prose on the whole "Russian can't ship rocket segments through its narrow railway tunnels"
    as if that was some show stopper. I am quite certain he even made this claim for Angara modules. But as we see the Angara
    module production leverages a central location between Plesetsk and Vostochniy on the Russian railway network. So the manufacturing
    plant ships segments through those "narrow tunnels".

    As for the Soyuz-5, what is the point of Russia working full time on upgrading the RD-170 and producing the RD-171MV if it is
    not going to use it. The Soyuz-2 and Angara do not use this engine. Its use was in Zenit which the Soyuz-5 replaces. Russia
    was never going to dump the Zenit since it fills an important niche and the transfer of SeaLaunch to Russia is further evidence
    of the commitment to the Soyuz-5. Yet Zak just dismisses it out of hand without any proof.

    Sorry, but saying some truth mixed with lies is propaganda by definition. The quality of the truth does not redeem the liar.

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    Post  Scorpius Sat Jan 30, 2021 1:43 pm

    kvs wrote:Zak likes to doom monger.   He spent a lot of prose on the whole "Russian can't ship rocket segments through its narrow railway tunnels"
    as if that was some show stopper.   I am quite certain he even made this claim for Angara modules.   But as we see the Angara
    module production leverages a central location between Plesetsk and Vostochniy on the Russian railway network.   So the manufacturing
    plant ships segments through those "narrow tunnels".  

    As for the Soyuz-5, what is the point of Russia working full time on upgrading the RD-170 and producing the RD-171MV if it is
    not going to use it.   The Soyuz-2 and Angara do not use this engine.   Its use was in Zenit which the Soyuz-5 replaces.   Russia
    was never going to dump the Zenit since it fills an important niche and the transfer of SeaLaunch to Russia is further evidence
    of the commitment to the Soyuz-5.   Yet Zak just dismisses it out of hand without any proof.

    Sorry, but saying some truth mixed with lies is propaganda by definition.   The quality of the truth does not redeem the liar.

    The fact is that the "saga of narrow tunnels" was one of the main arguments of the idiots protesting against the construction of a new cosmodrome on the territory of Russia (Vostochny). On the Trans-Siberian Railway and the BAM, the tunnels are too narrow, and the steps of the required diameter will not pass through them. But 15 years later, Putin was terribly cunning: he ordered the modernization of the railway infrastructure, including the construction of new tunnels and the expansion of existing ones.
    In addition, one of the largest natural gas processing plants on the planet is being built near the cosmodrome, which will become a source of both helium, methane and hydrogen. Putin's cunning is truly immeasurable!

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    Post  GarryB Sun Jan 31, 2021 3:11 am

    Not cunning, just being smart.

    Besides there will always be enormous fuel tanks and structures that might need to be taken to the far east that wont fit through any rail tunnel no matter how big they make it.

    These structures are not actually heavy, but they wont fit inside a plane or a train.

    Previously this has been used:

    Russian Space Program: News & Discussion #3 - Page 25 0_cf6f12


    Or this:

    Russian Space Program: News & Discussion #3 - Page 25 51c3df11

    A bigger heavier plane offers potential for more variety of objects including heavier things like the Buran which is about 120 tons, which is why the An-225 was developed and built.

    They have plans for new shuttles so a new H tailed model of Slon would make sense, but they would not need more than 2 or 3 at most.

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