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76 posters

    S-70 "Okhotnik" UCAV

    Sujoy
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    Post  Sujoy Sun Oct 06, 2024 11:53 am

    Arrow wrote:Currently, only four S-70 prototypes are reportedly produced. As for unmanned combat aircraft. The road is very long.
    Four prototypes were produced by 2022. Since then they must have added more.

    Ukraine war shows that fighter aircraft are struggling big time to enter a denied environment and are therefore forced to release munition from BVR. This is because SAM systems have made rapid progress. In the near future UCAVs will be needed to enter a well protected area.
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    Post  Arrow Sun Oct 06, 2024 12:09 pm

    In the near future UCAVs will be needed to enter a well protected area. wrote:

    UAVs the size of the S-70 will also be vulnerable to advanced AD. Their price will not differ much from that of a manned aircraft. Only the pilot's life is not at risk.
    lancelot
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    Post  lancelot Sun Oct 06, 2024 4:45 pm

    An S-70 Okhotnik-B strike UAV was lost in the skies over the occupied part of the DPR
    06.10.2024

    On October 5, 2024, during military operations in the DPR, in the area of the village of Konstantinovka west of Toretsk, which is still under the control of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, an S-70 Okhotnik-B reconnaissance and strike unmanned aerial vehicle was shot down. The incident was caused by "friendly fire" - a strike by an R-74M guided missile launched from the weapons bay of a Su-57 fighter. Russian TG channels suggested, that there was a failure in the exchange of tactical information and target designation. Other technical problems are also possible, including in the operation of the UAV "friend or foe" identification system.

    The software of the S-111-N onboard communications system of the Su-57 multifunctional fighter is maximally adapted for use in the S-70 UAV combat control post mode. Secure data exchange channels between the S-111-N and the terminals installed on the Okhotniks unite the Su-57 and S-70 into a single information field, in which Su-57 pilots will be able to use the UAVs as "unmanned wingmen" carrying out radar and electronic reconnaissance, as well as conduct long-range air combat using R-77-1 missiles based on target designation from the N036 Belka onboard radars of the Su-57 fighters.

    Despite the loss of the advanced strike UAV, which is unpleasant in itself, the appearance of the S-70 in the combat zone indicates that the Russian Aerospace Forces are increasing the use of unmanned weapons, in the case of the Okhotnik, still in testing mode. The Okhotnik-B and Inokhodets, unmanned aerial vehicles previously not seen at the front, have become part of the arsenal of Russian combat aviation. Their appearance is due to the weakening of the enemy's air defense and indicates the desire of the Russian Defense Ministry and General Staff to use new technologies for testing, improvement and, ultimately, to achieve the goals of the Air Defense Forces.

    In Ukraine, the incident was attributed to the achievements of its air defense. "It became known that the Ukrainian Armed Forces managed to shoot down an S-70 attack drone. This means that there will be more of them. The Russians can use them as bait for the Ukrainian air defense and aviation, and then, after they clear them out, they will begin to destroy everything in the Ukrainian rear", considers the author of one of the Kyiv TG channels, not attaching importance to two points.

    First, we should ask ourselves: "How did the Su-57 and S-70 end up in the skies over the combat zone without fear of Ukrainian air defense systems?" This means there is no air defense there, therefore, there is no one and nothing to shoot down Russian aircraft with. And then, why shoot down an experienced drone, albeit an expensive one, and not a serial advanced aircraft with a pilot? Did they miss?

    Secondly, it seems that only in Ukraine “analysts” and bloggers admit that it is rational to use single expensive attack UAVs as “bait” instead of using “Geran”, which is much cheaper than the “Okhotnik”, is produced in large series and is used en masse.

    And besides, during massive attacks on military facilities of the Ukrainian Armed Forces in the deep rear, UAV targets very similar to the same "Geran" can be in the front lines. Where is the common sense? Not to mention critical thinking.

    For the armed formations of the Kyiv gang themselves, the use of technological innovations by the Russian army does not bring anything good - the time has come to send into battle products that were designed to fight instead of people.

    Artem Kirillov
    for the website "Aviation of Russia"

    https://aviation21.ru/v-nebe-nad-okkupirovannoj-chastyu-dnr-poteryan-udarnyj-bpla-s-70-oxotnik-b/

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    Sujoy
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    Post  Sujoy Sun Oct 06, 2024 7:43 pm

    The software of the S-111-N onboard communications system of the Su-57 multifunctional fighter is maximally adapted for use in the S-70 UAV combat control post mode
    Interesting insight.

    Perhaps the Su-57 could use its L band AESA wing mounted radar antenna as an L band datalink with the S-70
    PapaDragon
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    Post  PapaDragon Sun Oct 06, 2024 8:17 pm


    Why didn't they drop a cruse missile on the wreckage?


    Arkanghelsk
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    Post  Arkanghelsk Sun Oct 06, 2024 8:45 pm

    Iskander just yeeted the site

    But either way the stealth of su57 and s70 are confirmed, flying at high altitude with no risk

    Seems NATO AWACS and AD cannot detect them

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    marcellogo
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    Post  marcellogo Sun Oct 06, 2024 11:55 pm

    Arrow wrote:

    UAVs the size of the S-70 will also be vulnerable to advanced AD. Their price will not differ much from that of a manned aircraft. Only the pilot's life is not at risk.

    And this is a WHOLE LOTTA LOT in itself, like also the possibility of using retired pilots to guide them (independently from the use as loyal wingmans, I mean).

    For the rest, I concord that something like the new version of GROM could be a more fitting alternative.
    Not so advanced and costly but also not such an issue if you got to lose some of them.

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    GunshipDemocracy
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    Post  GunshipDemocracy Mon Oct 07, 2024 12:27 am

    Arkanghelsk wrote:Iskander just yeeted the site

    But either way the stealth of su57 and s70 are confirmed, flying at high altitude with no risk



    yup nIskander, but only after the Ukrainian team gathered to collect and investigate the drone lol1 lol1 lol1

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    Arkanghelsk
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    Post  Arkanghelsk Mon Oct 07, 2024 6:14 am

    Seems they found UMPK D-30SN bombs at the wreckage , meaning the S70 was dropping glide bombs while under control by su57

    At that altitude - it’s quite impressive , the stealth is very high - with no detection by NATO air defenses for the better part of 10 months now since Ukrainians found the first KH69 wreckages

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    LMFS
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    Post  LMFS Mon Oct 07, 2024 7:44 am

    Arrow wrote:

    UAVs the size of the S-70 will also be vulnerable to advanced AD. Their price will not differ much from that of a manned aircraft. Only the pilot's life is not at risk.

    There are several important differences

    First, the kind of stealth possessed by such a platform is fundamentally different from the one present in small UCAVs, since geometry allows them to have really low RCS at higher frequencies, like the ones used by the targeting radars of AD batteries. The only ones that should be actually effective would be lower frequency and OTH radars, which were scarce or non existent in 404 and now practically a non issue, once no IADS exists any more in the country, that is exactly the point where assets like Okhotnik are meant to be employed.

    Second, the platform has extreme range (we know at least 6k km) and persistence according with it, probably up to 10-12 hours without refuelling. Means, they can stay permanently on station at the front, performing ISR missions while carrying other UCAVs or ordnance to destroy targets of opportunity that would be unattainable for the VKS any other way. We are seeing how this real time suppression of enemy activity is the key to modern warfare, so its impact on the battlefield can be significant.

    As to the price, it seems clear to me that they created a really simple and unpretending platform, in which propulsion and structure are as economical as it gets, while defensive means / flight control systems redundancy can be strongly reduced and life support non existent. I would be surprised if the price is more than one third of that of the Su-57.

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    ALAMO


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    Post  ALAMO Mon Oct 07, 2024 8:33 am

    Arkanghelsk wrote:
    Seems NATO AWACS and AD cannot detect them

    They can not detect them, flying 500+ km away, in a straight line, and only if dare to close the Kerch Straight within lawful limits.

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    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Mon Oct 07, 2024 8:35 am

    It is interesting that the GROM drone shown a few years ago differs from the GROM drone shown more recently.

    The main differences are the the original GROM drone looks rather stealthy, while the newer drone looks more optimised for high speed flight.

    Of course they might have different versions for operating with Su-35s and Su-57s, where the stealthy model might operate on its own or with the Su-57 so as not to reveal the Su-57s presence, while the faster model could be used on its own or with the Su-35 and Su-57 when you want the enemy air defences to detect the drone and light up and try to shoot it down... revealing the locations of the enemy radar and sensors and large long range missiles... to be dealt with using Iskanders or Su-57s or even Su-35s or MiG-31s or eventually Su-75 types.
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    Post  ALAMO Mon Oct 07, 2024 8:43 am

    A while ago Su-57 was presented with two big drones suspended under wings on outer pylons.
    Drones reassembled cruise missiles of unknown type, but some characteristics suggested that it can be a loitering piece capable of recon and target acquisition.
    I guess that Russkie are really seriously work on Su-57 as a swarm command center, and it will be its standard operational configuration to be assisted by its own drones.

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    RTN
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    Post  RTN Mon Oct 07, 2024 6:45 pm

    Nothing stealthy about the S-70. Not surprising that Russia didn't find it important to salvage the wreckage

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    Post  Arrow Mon Oct 07, 2024 6:50 pm

    Hahaha what a moron. First of all, the AL-41F1 engines are not old. They are some of the most advanced aircraft engines in the world. Second, the super duper F-22 also has riveted aluminum elements, and the F-35 is not a stealth either.

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    GunshipDemocracy
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    Post  GunshipDemocracy Mon Oct 07, 2024 7:49 pm


    Right, aluminum and riveted surface. No stealth at all as manufacturers advertised. F35 and F22 have the same old tech then lol1 lol1 lol1

    Fear not, my friend; someday the USA may eventually learn how to build a real stealth fighter after all.

    S-70 "Okhotnik" UCAV - Page 26 Kkdkakd1


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    Sujoy
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    Post  Sujoy Mon Oct 07, 2024 8:26 pm

    Riveting and use of aluminium is not the point.

    The RAM treatment applied to a stealth aircraft is not uniform due to the variation in materials used throughout the aircraft. Different types of RAM are utilized in specific areas to optimize their absorption capabilities based on the material composition.
    Isos
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    Post  Isos Mon Oct 07, 2024 10:14 pm

    Even better if it is the case. Nowadays you need numbers to easily overwhelm dumb armies buying 12 hypa dupa supa f-35 for their whole air force.

    Stealth is good as long as it doesn't use 90% of your budget.
    Arkanghelsk
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    Post  Arkanghelsk Tue Oct 08, 2024 7:26 am

    RTN wrote:Nothing stealthy about the S-70. Not surprising that Russia didn't find it important to salvage the wreckage


    Lmfao your Air Force couldn’t detect it - it flies 9 months fucking your Kiev Laughing Laughing Laughing a prototype

    Imagine with AL51

    It already flies with impunity against shitty IRIS, E3, and Patriot

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    Scorpius
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    Post  Scorpius Tue Oct 08, 2024 10:15 am

    Oh, yes - these "old technologies".
    Indeed, so many countries have an attack UAV weighing more than 20 tons, which is also a wingman for the 5th generation fighter. Here is a list of these countries except Russia:

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    Post  ALAMO Tue Oct 08, 2024 10:32 am

    Why are you even replying to this endless moron, granting him attention and making him poop up from the cage??

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    Post  GarryB Tue Oct 08, 2024 10:54 am

    A friendly fire incident suggests confusion and misidentification... this drone was simply hardware that was destroyed in flight to prevent it going rogue and also to limit the amount of information the enemy could gain when they recovered the wreckage.

    That fall from altitude should give most onboard systems time to erase and burn out sensitive parts of the platform....

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    Post  GarryB Tue Oct 08, 2024 10:57 am

    Why are you even replying to this endless moron, granting him attention and making him poop up from the cage??

    When you ignore false statements and lies then some might start to believe them from simple repetition... the west has a strong point of repeating bullshit ad nauseum... eventually many just accept it to be true.

    That is how they win... keep fighting the darkness.

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