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    Syrian War: News #19

    ultimatewarrior
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    Post  ultimatewarrior Tue Jul 02, 2019 2:30 pm

    GarryB wrote:Russia has invaded Iran before, and the Iranians supported mujhedeen in Afghanistan against Soviet forces... not to mention various border conflicts and fights between the Soviets/Russia and China.

    The history of europe is a history of conflict...

    True. But today's Iran is Russia's friend. Today's Turkey is Russia's enemy, as has been the case for the past 1000+ years and will continue to be in the foreseeable future. Turkey is responsible for the downing of Russian Su-24 and Su-25 in Syria and the killing of Russian pilots and servicemen. Turkey is the one supplying illegally reverse engineered Kornet missiles to NLF to kill Russians in Syria and elsewhere. This even YOU must agree. That Turkey is enemy, Iran is friend.
    Isos
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    Post  Isos Tue Jul 02, 2019 3:45 pm

    GarryB wrote:

    The history of europe is a history of conflict...

    Not only Europe. Asians used to make wars always. The cute Japan was not far long ago similar to nazi and they are still very racists.

    Old civilization in America before europeans genocide them used to make wars too.

    Africans weren't better at all, they had a big role in slavery because it was africans that used to sold other africans to whites. They still fight today for no reason.

    On the other hand, history as teached at school is 90% of wars and 10% of big events. Nothing else.
    JohninMK
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    Post  JohninMK Tue Jul 02, 2019 4:04 pm

    PapaDragon wrote:

    This I assume is standard naval lineup in Tartus, vessels rotate but overall size should be constant


    I assume that is true of the surface warships but the submarines would just have their crews rotated given the lack of easy access back to the Black Sea. Maybe the surface warships rotate crews as well. Spread the experience, even to the other Fleets.
    Odin of Ossetia
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    Post  Odin of Ossetia Wed Jul 03, 2019 12:43 am

    Isos wrote:
    GarryB wrote:

    The history of europe is a history of conflict...

    Not only Europe. Asians used to make wars always. The cute Japan was not far long ago similar to nazi and they are still very racists.

    Old civilization in America before europeans genocide them used to make wars too.

    Africans weren't better at all, they had a big role in slavery because it was africans that used to sold other africans to whites. They still fight today for no reason.

    On the other hand, history as teached at school is 90% of wars and 10% of big events. Nothing else.




    Saving the Jews from the Holocaust, the Clear Contrast Between Japan and U.S.A. (Part 1).





    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mypRA9-ZWVI




    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Wed Jul 03, 2019 2:22 am

    True. But today's Iran is Russia's friend.

    But that is the thing.... they are not actual friends... they cooperate on a few things where their interests are similar... like keeping american and saudi supported sunni nutters out of Syria, and both countries are under US sanction, so they have problems trading with other countries because of US pressure on those other countries too, but Iran is not used to having powerful friends and I doubt they would fully trust Russia, just as Russia has no reason to fully trust Iran.

    Today's Turkey is Russia's enemy, as has been the case for the past 1000+ years and will continue to be in the foreseeable future.

    Actually not totally true... Turkey has traditionally been a popular tourist destination for Russian tourists, and there has been a lot of trade between the countries too.

    There is no practical reason for Russia and Turkey to fight each other, and Turkey needs to be part of the solution in Syria, whether you like it or not.

    Turkey is responsible for the downing of Russian Su-24 and Su-25 in Syria and the killing of Russian pilots and servicemen.

    They definitely downed the Su-24, but the dead aircrew were the responsibility of the people on the ground... ISIS and their lot.

    Turkey is the one supplying illegally reverse engineered Kornet missiles to NLF to kill Russians in Syria and elsewhere. This even YOU must agree. That Turkey is enemy, Iran is friend.

    Just because you keep saying it does not make it true. Countries don't have "friends" or "enemies".... The US is a former British colony... there was a war of independence... most european countries have long histories of fighting each other in various groupings or individually.

    If Russia can get along with Turkey or Iran then there is every reason to do so... it makes more sense to cooperate and get to know each other better than just label the other as enemy or friend and be blind.

    There are things Russia and Turkey will agree on and there are things Iran and Russia will disagree on.

    I don't know anything about the family that owns our local supermarket... they might be a different religion or a different nationality... they might have very extreme views on a lot of things... but I don't care... I just want to buy groceries... I don't want to force him and his family to agree with my beliefs and values and I don't expect him to try to use his business to change mine.

    Not only Europe. Asians used to make wars always. The cute Japan was not far long ago similar to nazi and they are still very racists.

    Well we were talking about Europe but you are perfectly correct... instead of saying:

    The history of europe is a history of conflict...

    it would be more correct to say:

    The history of humanity is a history of conflict...

    The cute Japan was not far long ago similar to nazi and they are still very racists.

    Actually Japan got away with some of the worst crimes in history and these crimes are mainly forgotten in the west... but not in Asia...

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    Post  andalusia Wed Jul 03, 2019 4:17 am

    GarryB wrote:
    True. But today's Iran is Russia's friend.

    But that is the thing.... they are not actual friends... they cooperate on a few things where their interests are similar... like keeping american and saudi supported sunni nutters out of Syria, and both countries are under US sanction, so they have problems trading with other countries because of US pressure on those other countries too, but Iran is not used to having powerful friends and I doubt they would fully trust Russia, just as Russia has no reason to fully trust Iran.

    Today's Turkey is Russia's enemy, as has been the case for the past 1000+ years and will continue to be in the foreseeable future.

    Actually not totally true... Turkey has traditionally been a popular tourist destination for Russian tourists, and there has been a lot of trade between the countries too.

    There is no practical reason for Russia and Turkey to fight each other, and Turkey needs to be part of the solution in Syria, whether you like it or not.

    Turkey is responsible for the downing of Russian Su-24 and Su-25 in Syria and the killing of Russian pilots and servicemen.

    They definitely downed the Su-24, but the dead aircrew were the responsibility of the people on the ground... ISIS and their lot.

    Turkey is the one supplying illegally reverse engineered Kornet missiles to NLF to kill Russians in Syria and elsewhere. This even YOU must agree. That Turkey is enemy, Iran is friend.

    Just because you keep saying it does not make it true. Countries don't have "friends" or "enemies".... The US is a former British colony... there was a war of independence... most european countries have long histories of fighting each other in various groupings or individually.

    If Russia can get along with Turkey or Iran then there is every reason to do so... it makes more sense to cooperate and get to know each other better than just label the other as enemy or friend and be blind.

    There are things Russia and Turkey will agree on and there are things Iran and Russia will disagree on.

    I don't know anything about the family that owns our local supermarket... they might be a different religion or a different nationality... they might have very extreme views on a lot of things... but I don't care... I just want to buy groceries... I don't want to force him and his family to agree with my beliefs and values and I don't expect him to try to use his business to change mine.

    Not only Europe. Asians used to make wars always. The cute Japan was not far long ago similar to nazi and they are still very racists.

    Well we were talking about Europe but you are perfectly correct... instead of saying:

    The history of europe is a history of conflict...

    it would be more correct to say:

    The history of humanity is a history of conflict...

    The cute Japan was not far long ago similar to nazi and they are still very racists.

    Actually Japan got away with some of the worst crimes in history and these crimes are mainly forgotten in the west... but not in Asia...


    Lots of good points Garry B. It is true that the history of humanity is a history of conflict. That is why it is always good to have a strong military and a keen sense of situational awareness in dealing with various people.

    I sometimes read where you are a little harder on White Americans. I would like to let you know that a significant number of nonwhite Americans like Afro Americans can be just as prejudiced toward Russia and have the same arrogant hubris as many White Americans; I advise you not to underestimate them. Think of people like Colin Powell, Condelezza Rice, Susan Rice and Barack Obama. No matter the rhetoric of a Democrat or a Republican presidential candidate; they will support the evil and corrupt American empire like Barack Obama. He was no friend of the working man in America neither despite the image of the Democratic party as a party of the poor.

    I would like to know do you see nonwhites like Afro Americans and Hispanics have the same hubris and arrogance as White American regarding foreign countries and American power?
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    Post  Regular Wed Jul 03, 2019 10:31 am

    Only jews best Turkroaches when it comes to treachery against Russia.
    Su-24 incident should be enough to wipe roaches and their sock puppets from Syria. Not to mention they killed Russian ambassador, harbour chechen terrorists and supply Ukraine.
    Every single turk alive is enemy of Russia
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    Post  nomadski Wed Jul 03, 2019 10:39 am


    I think the problem is over generalisations . I have seen plenty of Russian tourists in Turkey , being wined and dined . A playground for them . The trick is proportional response . Finding those responsible . Keeping Turkey onside .....
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    Post  GarryB Wed Jul 03, 2019 11:21 am

    It is true that the history of humanity is a history of conflict. That is why it is always good to have a strong military and a keen sense of situational awareness in dealing with various people.

    The sad fact is that war has become too easy and so often seems to be the first choice at a solution, when it should always be the last.

    I sometimes read where you are a little harder on White Americans. I would like to let you know that a significant number of nonwhite Americans like Afro Americans can be just as prejudiced toward Russia and have the same arrogant hubris as many White Americans

    People can be bastards and it matters not what their skin colour is or their nationality... there are plenty of people in Russian prisons who deserve to be there.

    I would suggest that perhaps sometimes I forget to mention when talking about the evils of the US I am not talking about the general population, but the government in charge... but to a degree the general US population really doesn't care very much about what their government does internationally as long as they have good jobs and their economy is going OK they really don't seem to care which country they are invading this time or whether the claims for the reasons for the invasion stack up or not.

    Saddam is a good case in point... the final reasoning was that he was a bad man and Iraq is better off without him after the evidence use for the actual invasion was proven to be bullshit. The average American accepts that and thinks that is fine, but if you can invade any country you like because you think the leadership are "bad" then no country is safe... including your own... you are basically saying that Germany was not totally wrong to attack various countries in Europe during WWII because there were some evil bastards in charge in other countries at the time... I am sure they could list a range of misdeeds and corruptions to justify what they did too. It does not make what was done right or justified.

    Think of people like Colin Powell, Condelezza Rice, Susan Rice and Barack Obama.

    All criminals who should be tied to a stake and shot...

    Regarding black americans... their ancestors were sold into slavery by their black neighbours who beat them in wars and sold them as slaves to white foreigners.

    Israel is a perfect example of a victim going on to being a criminal doing the same things they were victims of, but they are victims so this time it is understandable and for so many except the new victims acceptable.

    No matter the rhetoric of a Democrat or a Republican presidential candidate; they will support the evil and corrupt American empire like Barack Obama. He was no friend of the working man in America neither despite the image of the Democratic party as a party of the poor.

    He did nothing to help black people in the US... he was the biggest disappointments you could imagine... just like Hilary would have been if she was made president because she doesn't care about women... she forgave her man slut of a husband just to hang on to power and influence in the hope of a presidency... no pride, no shame.

    But is is all part of the game.... if you are a Chinese or Russian dissident then expect to be on the front page of Time magazine and a peace prize, if you are a dissident in the west releasing information about western and eastern governments doing bad things then expect prison time like Assange and Snowden.

    I would like to know do you see nonwhites like Afro Americans and Hispanics have the same hubris and arrogance as White American regarding foreign countries and American power?

    Most people do not see beyond their own lives and their own problems and could care less about starving people that are not in their face. They will pick a route to walk in a city so they don't have to walk past homeless people in the street whom they think are lazy or stupid or both. It is not a race thing and it is encouraged too... the rich people who own the media we access information through don't want us to think about poor people as anything but stupid or lazy or both.

    Once you are there it is hard to get out of that situation... how can you get a job if you only own the clothes you are wearing and they stink. Even if you got a job how can they pay you... you don't have a house to live in so you can't get a bank account... some rich people own many houses... some own them to sell them for enormous profit and no one actually lives in them most of the time... yeah, they say market forces and democracy is the best way, but it is so damn unfair and wasteful... personally I think some form of socialism is needed... communism does not work, but we need to think more as a team rather than a huge group of individuals fighting over the same nest for resources...
    Isos
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    Post  Isos Wed Jul 03, 2019 10:29 pm


    Syrian Military Capabilities
    @Syrian_MC
    ·
    1h
    My experience with the Chinese radars
    -Easy to jam agents
    -Not working as advertised
    -Doesn’t perform properly in rough-weather conditions > needs a fiber dome when located near waters or in a hot area
    Odin of Ossetia
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    Post  Odin of Ossetia Wed Jul 03, 2019 11:46 pm

    Regular wrote:Only jews best Turkroaches when it comes to treachery against Russia.
    Su-24 incident should be enough to wipe roaches and their sock puppets from Syria. Not to mention they killed Russian ambassador, harbour chechen terrorists and supply Ukraine.
    Every single turk alive is enemy of Russia




    How about mentioning that Lithuania is now a major supplier of ammunition to the Ukrainian military.


    Lots of countries harbor Chechens, there were many phone calls made by the terrorists at Bieslan to Vienna, Austria.

    I wonder why? Vienna is the city where the Organization of the Ukrainian Nationalists was founded in 1929.

    But Putin is a good friend of Austria.


    Ukrainian nationalists supported the Chechens in both wars, but Russia continued to supply Ukraine with lots of free natural gas, and even made pro-Ukrainian movies like the Taras Bulba remake.


    And back in the 2000's some Chechen terrorist(s) died at the hands of the Turkish Police, during a hostage situation in Turkey.

    Turkey actually completely ceased its support for the Chechen separatists by 1997.


    That Russian Air Force jet violated the Turkish air space, so shooting it down was a legitimate act.


    Get your facts right.



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    Post  Regular Thu Jul 04, 2019 1:45 am

    Odin of Ossetia wrote:
    Regular wrote:Only jews best Turkroaches when it comes to treachery against Russia.
    Su-24 incident should be enough to wipe roaches and their sock puppets from Syria. Not to mention they killed Russian ambassador, harbour chechen terrorists and supply Ukraine.
    Every single turk alive is enemy of Russia



    How about mentioning that Lithuania is now a major supplier of ammunition to the Ukrainian military.


    Lots of countries harbor Chechens, there were many phone calls made by the terrorists at Bieslan to Vienna, Austria.

    I wonder why? Vienna is the city where the Organization of the Ukrainian Nationalists was founded in 1929.

    But Putin is a good friend of Austria.


    Ukrainian nationalists supported the Chechens in both wars, but Russia continued to supply Ukraine with lots of free natural gas, and even made pro-Ukrainian movies like the Taras Bulba remake.


    And back in the 2000's some Chechen terrorist(s) died at the hands of the Turkish Police, during a hostage situation in Turkey.

    Turkey actually completely ceased its support for the Chechen separatists by 1997.


    That Russian Air Force jet violated the Turkish air space, so shooting it down was a legitimate act.


    Get your facts right.




    Yes, Lithuania did waste all their reserves on Ukraine, idiot move, but what can you expect from low IQ government and low IQ people in general?
    Lithuania doesn't even produce ammunition anymore, they only had small arms munitions that were needed like water in case Lithuania needed to mobilise..

    Austria is land of crooks and pedophiles - no wonder Putin recently managed to get a hold on some of the lackeys there. They are like Germany, only 10 times more corrupt. Various terrorist organisations are known to operate from there.
    So what are you saying is no suprise.
    Turkey supported chechens even on second chechen war and Russia had to liquidate chechen scum on turkish soil.
    Turkey had as much rights to shoot down russian plane as ukrainian has a right to fuck your polish wife. turkroach aew&c was up in the air waiting for russian jet to cross tiny strip of that dirty kebab land and from all accounts they even fired before there was violation. no warning was given, no payout was paid. Plenty of turkrats were cheering on all forums and in the streets
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    Syrian War: News #19 - Page 25 Empty Arrr Mateys! Back to the old days. Piracy in the high seas as the UK, (at the request of the U.S) blocks oil Tanker bound for Syria at Gilbratar (War Booty from Spain!).

    Post  ATLASCUB Thu Jul 04, 2019 1:47 pm

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/jul/04/royal-marines-gibraltar-tanker-oil-syria-eu-sanctions

    A detachment of Royal Marines and the authorities in Gibraltar have seized a supertanker suspected of carrying oil to Syria in breach of European Union sanctions.

    The UK government welcomed the “firm action by the Gibraltarian authorities” in intercepting the Grace 1.

    Gibraltar’s chief minister, Fabian Picardo, praised the “brave men and women” from the Royal Marines and the local agencies involved in the operation.

    He said: “In the early hours of this morning, Gibraltar port and law enforcement agencies, assisted by a detachment of Royal Marines, boarded a supertanker carrying crude oil to Syria. We have detained the vessel and its cargo.

    “This action arose from information giving the Gibraltar government reasonable grounds to believe that the vessel, the Grace 1, was acting in breach of EU sanctions against Syria.

    “In fact we have reason to believe that the Grace 1 was carrying its shipment of crude oil to the Banyas refinery in Syria.”

    Speculation going about that the operation was undertaken at the request of the U.S, who provided the tip to the UK. Obviously we have to laugh at the new Spaniard who runs the EU Foreign Ministry - acting as if it was all in the club - when it clearly wasn't. Since, well, we all know the UK doesn't gives two shits about a Union that it itself is leaving (but will milk it while it can - hence the enforcement of "EU sanctions"). Puts the EU in a tight spot vis a vis Russia... not to mention the salt rubbing on Spaniards.

    ==========================
    Update: Seems the ship has been tracked for a while by US/UK intelligence services.

    https://ca.reuters.com/article/topNews/idCAKCN1R10G9-OCATP

    An earlier Reuters article about Iran bypassing sanctions to ship oil to Singapore and China feature this very ship. The report is too detailed to not be a story crafted with the help of and at the behest off an asset. Too precise on where to look, when to look and what to look for.


    NO RECORD AT BASRA

    Documents forwarded to Reuters by ship owners say a 300,000 tonne-supertanker, the Grace 1, took on fuel oil at Basra, Iraq, between Dec. 10 and 12, 2018. But Basra port loading schedules reviewed by Reuters do not list the Grace 1 as being in port during those dates.

    One Iraqi industry source with knowledge of the port’s operations confirmed there were no records of the Grace 1 at Basra during this period.

    Reuters examined data from four ship-tracking information providers - Refinitiv, Kpler, IHS Markit and Vessel Finder - to locate the Grace 1 during that time. All four showed that the Grace 1 had its Automatic Identification System (AIS), or transponder, switched off between Nov. 30 and Dec. 14, 2018, meaning its location could not be tracked.

    The Grace 1 then re-appeared in waters near Iran’s port of Bandar Assaluyeh, fully loaded, data showed. The cargo was transferred onto two smaller ships in UAE waters in January, from where one ship delivered fuel oil to Singapore in February.

    Shipping documents showed about 284,000 tonnes of fuel oil were transferred in the cargoes tracked by Reuters, worth about $120 million at current prices.

    Officials at Iran’s oil ministry declined to comment.

    Singapore customs did not respond to requests for comment.

    The Grace 1, a Panamanian-flagged tanker, is managed by Singapore-based shipping services firm IShips Management Pte Ltd, according to data. IShips did not respond to several requests for comment via email or phone.

    A Reuters reporter visited the office listed on IShips’ website but was told by the current tenant that the company had moved out two years earlier.

    (MAP: Grace 1 tanker movement between Iraq, Iran and the UAE - tmsnrt.rs/2FkRjMK)

    SHIP-TO-SHIP TRANSFERS

    The ship-tracking data analyzed by Reuters showed the Grace 1 emerged from the period when it did not transmit its location almost 500 kilometers south of Iraq. It was close to the Iranian coast with its draught - how deep a vessel sits in water - near maximum, indicating its cargo tanks were filled.

    The Grace 1 transferred its cargo to two smaller tankers between Jan. 16 and 22 in waters offshore Fujairah in the UAE, data showed.

    One of those vessels, the 130,000 tonne-capacity Kriti Island, offloaded fuel oil into a storage terminal in Singapore around Feb. 5 to 7. Reuters was unable to determine who purchased the fuel oil for storage in Singapore.

    The Kriti Island is managed by Greece’s Avin International SA.

    The tanker was chartered by Singapore-based Blutide Pte Ltd for its voyage to Singapore, Avin International’s Chief Executive Officer George Mylonas told Reuters. Mylonas confirmed the Kriti Island took on fuel oil from the Grace 1.

    There is no indication that Avin International knowingly shipped Iranian fuel oil. Mylonas said his firm had conducted all necessary due diligence to ensure the cargo’s legitimate origin.
    CERTIFICATE OF ORIGIN

    Mylonas emailed Reuters a copy of a Certificate of Origin (COO) that he said was provided by the charterers – referring to Blutide - showing the Grace 1 loaded fuel oil at Basra on Dec. 10 and 12, 2018.

    “The Certificate of Origin and all the information obtained did not reveal any connection with Iran, let alone that the cargo of fuel oil originated” from there, Mylonas wrote.

    Mylonas said the Grace 1’s owners, managers, shippers, receivers and charterers were screened by Avin International. “There were not circumstances that would make the COO of dubious origin,” he said via email.

    He said he had been told by the charterers that the Grace 1 only stopped in waters off Iran in late December and early January for “repairs of damaged diesel generators” before sailing to Fujairah.

    The document provided by Mylonas says Iraq’s state oil marketer SOMO certified the Grace 1 in December loaded a total of 284,261 tonnes of Iraqi fuel oil.

    Reuters shared the document with a SOMO official in Iraq who said it was “faked” and “completely wrong”. The official declined to be identified by name, citing the marketer’s communications policy.

    Two other Iraqi oil industry sources with direct knowledge of Basra port and oil industry operations also said the documentation was forged.

    The two sources said the document bore the signature of a manager who was not working at Basra port on the stated dates. The document also bears contradictory dates: It indicates a loading period of Dec. 10 and 12, 2018 but a sign-off date for the transaction of Jan. 12, 2018.
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    Post  jhelb Thu Jul 04, 2019 7:44 pm

    GarryB wrote: I would suggest that perhaps sometimes I forget to mention when talking about the evils of the US I am not talking about the general population, but the government in charge... but to a degree the general US population really doesn't care very much about what their government does internationally as long as they have good jobs and their economy is going OK they really don't seem to care which country they are invading this time or whether the claims for the reasons for the invasion stack up or not.

    Exactly. The general population is equally responsible. They are the ones who elect these diabolical US government. And they have been doing this for the last 100+ years. They know fully well that the US govt kills thousands of innocent people across Asia, Africa every year & yet they don't bat an eyelid coz it makes no difference to them. Instead they are quite happy that hundreds of companies across US make billions of $$ in profit because of these wars.
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    Post  andalusia Thu Jul 04, 2019 8:47 pm

    jhelb wrote:
    GarryB wrote: I would suggest that perhaps sometimes I forget to mention when talking about the evils of the US I am not talking about the general population, but the government in charge... but to a degree the general US population really doesn't care very much about what their government does internationally as long as they have good jobs and their economy is going OK they really don't seem to care which country they are invading this time or whether the claims for the reasons for the invasion stack up or not.

    Exactly. The general population is equally responsible. They are the ones who elect these diabolical US government. And they have been doing this for the last 100+ years. They know fully well that the US govt kills thousands of innocent people across Asia, Africa every year & yet they don't bat an eyelid coz it makes no difference to them. Instead they are quite happy that hundreds of companies across US make billions of $$ in profit because of these wars.

    These are two good articles about phony us military worship: Many US citizens don't care about the lives of other people around the world.

    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/narendramodi_opinion/how-empty-displays-of-sports-patriotism-allow-americans-to-forget-the-troops/ar-AABQHCs

    https://caitlinjohnstone.com/2019/07/03/jingoistic-military-fetishization-is-as-american-as-bald-eagle-mcnuggets/
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    Post  GarryB Fri Jul 05, 2019 2:35 am

    It hasn't happened by accident, there is a history of peace movements in the US and even to this day there are American citizens who went to Venezuelan embassies and territories to act as human shields to prevent their own government from attacking.

    Plus while I suggest many don't care... I would also suggest within the system they really don't get much of a say anyway, so if you don't get a say why would you care... in fact actually taking an interest and finding how impotent you really are because there are no discussions and anyone with a dissenting view becomes the enemy... and in the US there are only two sides of any debate... democrat and republican and in this case both sides benefit from war and are on the same side of the argument... they would invade too but the current political opponent did it the wrong way this time...

    As Lee Camp says in his TV programme... Americans reporting stories about America in America have to register as foreign agents, and some people they talk to in the street call them communists.

    The thing I don't like about Russia Today as a channel is that it is dominated by Americans talking about America... I watch Russia Today to learn about progress and development in Russia. They had an excellent programme called Technology Update... it was brilliant and it was cut.
    jhelb
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    Post  jhelb Fri Jul 05, 2019 5:52 pm

    GarryB wrote:It hasn't happened by accident, there is a history of peace movements in the US and even to this day there are American citizens who went to Venezuelan embassies and territories to act as human shields to prevent their own government from attacking.

    And these peace movements also have a long history of failing. Guess why- they are sponsored by the US government itself to create the impression in the mind of gullible people that US civil society is an entity completely separate from the US government. If people around the world makes no effort to distinguish between US government and US private citizens, American businesses will suffer globally, big time.

    GarryB wrote:and even to this day there are American citizens who went to Venezuelan embassies and territories to act as human shields to prevent their own government from attacking.

    Another failure. How many US citizens volunteer for such acts ? Out of 350 million Americans barely a dozen will undertake such an ordeal. The rest of the country gleefully cheer gruesome acts of the US government carried out in foreign countries.
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    Post  GarryB Sat Jul 06, 2019 3:29 am

    Another failure. How many US citizens volunteer for such acts ? Out of 350 million Americans barely a dozen will undertake such an ordeal. The rest of the country gleefully cheer gruesome acts of the US government carried out in foreign countries.

    They are a minority in the sense that they actually care enough to do something and have the financial ability to do something... so it was never going to be a large majority... if such a majority existed then Trump wouldn't consider doing what he has done because he needs votes...
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    Post  par far Sat Jul 06, 2019 4:22 pm




    SeigSoloyvov
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    Post  SeigSoloyvov Wed Jul 10, 2019 8:23 pm

    That SU-24 was in Turkish Airspace for 7 seconds total time, the pilots realized they accidentally flew in and quickly corrected it.

    The F-16 that shot it down was in the air and waiting along the SU-24's flight path before it entered the Airspace.

    The Turks had a legal right to gun the aircraft down since it DID enter their airspace that is true to a very limited point. But you can argue they also didn't the Aircraft did not threaten them and posed zero threat to them. It wasn't trying to perform an attack run or anything, you could make the case it was Murder and that would be fair.

    International law does require you to issue a verbal warning, the Turks did not do this they just fired hell by the time the missile HIT the SU-24 it was out of Turkish airspace.

    But at the same time shooting down an aircraft that entered your airspace purely by accident for no even 10 seconds is a straight up finger and you can argue it was a provocation and IMO isn't a defensible act.

    Was an act of aggression. not even in the height of the Cold war did the Soviets gun down planes that where in their airspace for seven seconds.
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    Post  GarryB Thu Jul 11, 2019 7:48 am


    Was an act of aggression. not even in the height of the Cold war did the Soviets gun down planes that where in their airspace for seven seconds.

    Excellent vindication for shooting down KAL007, but what difference do airspace rules make when US AEGIS cruisers enter Iranian waters and shoot down Iranian airliners in Iranian airspace...

    Just a case where a US ally is likely encouraged to defend its own air space from US rivals... funny as hell when that US ally is then almost overthrown by an attempted US supported coup... really put things into perspective for him then...
    SeigSoloyvov
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    Post  SeigSoloyvov Thu Jul 11, 2019 10:26 am

    GarryB wrote:

    Was an act of aggression. not even in the height of the Cold war did the Soviets gun down planes that where in their airspace for seven seconds.

    Excellent vindication for shooting down KAL007, but what difference do airspace rules make when US AEGIS cruisers enter Iranian waters and shoot down Iranian airliners in Iranian airspace...

    Just a case where a US ally is likely encouraged to defend its own air space from US rivals... funny as hell when that US ally is then almost overthrown by an attempted US supported coup... really put things into perspective for him then...

    You insufferable, manipulative person.

    I don't ever remember saying on this forum the shooting down of a civilian airliner is right.

    However, that incident was a hot post mess of confusion and guys not sharing information with each other.

    The Soviets themselves destroyed one or two civilian airliners on accident.

    Unless you are trying to say we did that on purpose, you need to keep quiet if you have nothing productive to say other then.

    "US IS EVIL BLAH BLAH BLAH".
    crod
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    Post  crod Fri Jul 12, 2019 1:00 am

    [/quote]

    Unless you are trying to say we did that on purpose, you need to keep quiet if you have nothing productive to say other then.

    [/quote]

    I’m really beginning to question your age and by extension, your maturity. I sure as hell don’t believe for one minute your stories of conflict presence - as I’ve made perfectly clear already.

    That aside, this is the second time within a week where you’ve asked a member here to cease posting (in a not so nice a way) because you didn’t like the counter argument presented. You are aware that this is a forum....where people post, irrespective of what the poster has written, right? Telling people “you need to keep quiet” etc is rather bizarre to be frank.
    ultimatewarrior
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    Post  ultimatewarrior Fri Jul 12, 2019 3:22 am

    SeigSoloyvov wrote:
    GarryB wrote:

    Was an act of aggression. not even in the height of the Cold war did the Soviets gun down planes that where in their airspace for seven seconds.

    Excellent vindication for shooting down KAL007, but what difference do airspace rules make when US AEGIS cruisers enter Iranian waters and shoot down Iranian airliners in Iranian airspace...

    Just a case where a US ally is likely encouraged to defend its own air space from US rivals... funny as hell when that US ally is then almost overthrown by an attempted US supported coup... really put things into perspective for him then...

    You insufferable, manipulative person.

    I don't ever remember saying on this forum the shooting down of a civilian airliner is right.

    However, that incident was a hot post mess of confusion and guys not sharing information with each other.

    The Soviets themselves destroyed one or two civilian airliners on accident.

    Unless you are trying to say we did that on purpose, you need to keep quiet if you have nothing productive to say other then.

    "US IS EVIL BLAH BLAH BLAH".

    @mods

    this dude deserves a month long ban
    AlfaT8
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    Post  AlfaT8 Fri Jul 12, 2019 5:23 am

    ultimatewarrior wrote:@mods

    this dude deserves a month long ban

    This isn't MP.net nor F-16.net.

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