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    Russian Naval Shipbuilding Industry: News

    caveat emptor
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    Post  caveat emptor Sun Aug 21, 2022 3:36 pm

    LMFS wrote:

    The problem is the supply chain for those capital vessels seems to be little efficient, logical to a certain point due to their uniqueness. I assume the relevance the navy is getting in this phase of the struggle against the West will force the government to cut the crap and put everyone risking the national security in their place for good. No place for crooks and 5th columnists in the MIC, but they can go to Siberia for a refreshing change in their lives What a Face

    It's nice to be optimistic. Keep it up.
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    Post  GarryB Sun Aug 21, 2022 4:29 pm

    But I am not sure they will change them, I have not seen the kind of rework at the flight deck that would make you think they are going to remove the Granits.

    I have to agree... but its remote location from the main aircraft hangar and its likely isolated and firewalled nature... I would say UKSK-M tubes with some Ovtet anti sub missiles would be more valuable to an aircraft carrier... if 80 UKSK tubes can replace 20 Granit tubes on a Kirov class then they should be able to get 40 tubes in the space for 12 Granit tubes on the Kuznetsov...

    how many CBG a single sub can send to the bottom...

    If you want to operate globally the best way is via the worlds oceans and waterways... subs are dangerous, but carrier groups hunting subs are dangerous too and western subs will only actually attack Russian subs once because the result is the same for everyone... all Russia has to do is make the west believe that attacking Russian shipping and interfering with Russian trade with the rest of the world will break the west into little broken non functioning pieces they can't recover from... via some Zircon surgery... amongst other instruments.

    Building a decent navy means they are ready to trade and wont take shit from western navies who will be small by comparison in most cases except for the US Navy.

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    Hole
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    Post  Hole Sun Aug 21, 2022 4:49 pm

    The problem was always with the suppliers of components, not the yards. You can´t finish a ship in time if some stuff is missing, even if it is only some small auxiliary machine. A lot of the old suppliers of the ship construction complex were left in the south-western regions (known as "Ukraine" in the last decades). For some companies in Russia is was not very lucrative to build small numbers of specialised equipment for the Navy. Larger orders could change this. Or what LMFS mentioned (vacation in Siberia).

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    Post  ALAMO Sun Aug 21, 2022 5:12 pm

    Hole wrote:The problem was always with the suppliers of components, not the yards. You can´t finish a ship in time if some stuff is missing, even if it is only some small auxiliary machine. A lot of the old suppliers of the ship construction complex were left in the south-western regions (known as "Ukraine" in the last decades). For some companies in Russia is was not very lucrative to build small numbers of specialised equipment for the Navy. Larger orders could change this. Or what LMFS mentioned (vacation in Siberia).

    Even the biggest marine construction superpowers like China and Korea are not self-sufficient.
    They still importing tons of things from other countries, because this is how this entire business is constructed.
    Soviet Union had it's production dispersed not only among the republics that are no longer the Russian sphere of influence but ordered a waste supply of specialized maritime construction abroad. Not only in Poland, East Germany, Bulgaria and Romania, but in countries as exotic as Finland and Yugoslavia. They have ordered the specialized equipment for yards not only in West Germany but in Japan and the Netherlands as well.
    Donbas was a source of high-quality marine rated steel sheets for shipbuilding for decades, and I guess this will be something that will be reestablished very soon. And it might be both China and Korea that will be really interested. All the factories that were busi producing railroad stuff, often were source of marine shafts or propellers - again Donbas was among the suppliers for a waste period of time.
    Electronic&radio equipment was produced on the territory of Latvia and Ukraine - this thing was gone for the last 30 years, Russkie reestablished construction potential on its own soil. You can't produce ships having no supply, and there will be no domestic supply if you are not producing ships in series. That is a closed circle. Russkie did a huge and outstanding job with fishing fleet reconstruction, and the very same scheme is applied for the river going vessels. Oil and gas companies are the next momentum gain for this business, only now we will see some reshaping of it due to war.
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    Post  LMFS Sun Aug 21, 2022 5:15 pm

    caveat emptor wrote:It's nice to be optimistic. Keep it up.

    Indeed it is...

    Nevertheless, uprooting the weeds in the MIC is a tedious and lengthy work that will extend for many years still. But it is accelerating as of late.

    GarryB wrote:
    I have to agree... but its remote location from the main aircraft hangar and its likely isolated and firewalled nature... I would say UKSK-M tubes with some Ovtet anti sub missiles would be more valuable to an aircraft carrier... if 80 UKSK tubes can replace 20 Granit tubes on a Kirov class then they should be able to get 40 tubes in the space for 12 Granit tubes on the Kuznetsov...

    What about naval S-500 tubes? Seeing the K become the first carrier in the world protected against hypersonic weapons would make PD the happiest man in the world, for sure What a Face

    If you want to operate globally the best way is via the worlds oceans and waterways... subs are dangerous, but carrier groups hunting subs are dangerous too and western subs will only actually attack Russian subs once because the result is the same for everyone... all Russia has to do is make the west believe that attacking Russian shipping and interfering with Russian trade with the rest of the world will break the west into little broken non functioning pieces they can't recover from... via some Zircon surgery... amongst other instruments.

    Building a decent navy means they are ready to trade and wont take shit from western navies who will be small by comparison in most cases except for the US Navy.

    Certainly the deterrence must be that in any exchange, USN will lose. If they gain the upper hand in a certain region, they would be tempted to disregard their own losses and cripple VMF's ability do deploy there. So Russia needs to be ready to battle USN for real. The issue is the massive numerical advantage they have. Against PLAN, the US advantage is qualitative. But against both operating together, US loses in every aspect. This (Chinese numbers together with Russian weapons systems) gives Russia the time to develop their blue water fleet, including destroyers, cruisers and carriers. A massive challenge, but one that cannot be avoided or delayed further.
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    Post  Podlodka77 Thu Aug 25, 2022 12:08 pm

    Reactors were loaded onto the fourth icebreaker of the Arktika type

    Russian Naval Shipbuilding Industry: News - Page 33 Aa_aaa10
    Loading reactors on the icebreaker "Yakutia"
    "Baltiysky Zavod"



    Specialists of the Baltiysky Zavod loaded two RITM-200 reactor units onto the nuclear-powered icebreaker Yakutia of project 22220 (Arktika). As noted on Wednesday, August 24, in the press service of the enterprise, the installation of reactor plants is one of the key production operations in the process of building nuclear-powered ships, during which the ship acquires a "heart" that sets it in motion.

    According to the representatives of the shipyard, on August 23, a complex technological process for loading and assembling on the icebreaker Yakutia of two steam generating units of the RITM-200 reactor plant with a thermal capacity of 175 MW each was completed. The weight of one block is 147.5 tons, height - 7.3 meters, diameter - 3.3 meters.
    As noted in the press service of the Baltiysky Zavod, the main advantage of power plants of this type is compactness and efficiency. They have a unique energy efficient integral layout that allows the main equipment to be located directly inside the steam generating unit casing. The service life of the reactors is 40 years, and the unique design makes it possible to make the Project 22220 icebreakers double-draft, providing improved technical characteristics of the vessel in terms of ice breaking speed.

    Now the specialists of the "Baltiysky Zavod" will have to carry out the final installation of the reactor plant, its auxiliary equipment and fittings.

    The universal nuclear icebreaker "Yakutia" is the fourth vessel of project 22220, which is being built at the "Baltiysky Zavod" by order of the Federal State Unitary Enterprise "Atomflot". It was laid down in May 2020. Earlier it was reported that Yakutia will be launched in November 2022.

    Recall that Baltiysky Zavod handed over the lead icebreaker of project 22220 Arktika into operation in October 2020 with a faulty propulsion motor on the right shaft with the obligation of the United Shipbuilding Corporation to replace it in 2021. The ship underwent a scheduled overhaul last year.

    In January 2022, Atomflot received a second icebreaker, Sibir.

    In addition to Yakutia, the construction of two more icebreakers of project 22220, Ural and Chukotka, continues at Baltiysky Zavod.
    Project 22220 nuclear-powered icebreakers are designed for independent escort of ships and year-round leading caravans in the Western region of the Arctic, in the shallow areas of the Yenisei and the Gulf of Ob, towing ships, as well as providing assistance and performing rescue operations in ice conditions and in clear water. Icebreakers can overcome up to 2.8 meters of solid fast ice. They will become the most powerful ships of this type in the world.

    The main characteristics of the vessel:

    • maximum length - 173.3 meters;
    • width - 34 meters;
    • side height amidships - 15.2 meters;
    • draft – 8.5–10.5 meters;
    • displacement - 33,500 tons.

    https://flot.com/2022/%D0%91%D0%B0%D0%BB%D1%82%D0%B8%D0%B9%D1%81%D0%BA%D0%B8%D0%B9%D0%97%D0%B0%D0%B2%D0%BE%D0%B45/




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    Russian Naval Shipbuilding Industry: News - Page 33 Empty Shipyards of Novorossia

    Post  Rodion_Romanovic Thu Aug 25, 2022 12:16 pm

    https://e-vid.ru/ekonomika/050622/sokrovischa-novorossii-ili-chto-sulit-ekonomike-rossii-uspekh-specoperacii-na

    An extract from the article
    Treasures of Novorossia, or What promises the Russian economy the success of the “special operation” in Ukraine, from Sergey Kudiyarov

    Here it only mentions Mariupol shiprepairing yard and the large Kherson shipyard, as Nikolaev (where 3 of the largest shipyards of Soviet Union were located) is still in Ukrainian hands.
    I know that those shipyards are not in working state and probably ruined, but the drydocks and some of the infrastructure still exists. It will be much easier to rebuild them in comparison to create something from scratch elsewhere, also because the location is perfect for shipbuilding. Furthermore there is a nice shiprepairing yard on the Danube river (on the city of Izmail).


    Cradle of the Black Sea Fleet
    Historically, the main shipbuilding cluster of our country on the Black Sea was located in Nikolaev. This city has not yet fallen into the sphere of our control and therefore is not considered in this review. But even what is already ours has something to please connoisseurs of the sea wave.

    First of all, of course, this is the Kherson Shipbuilding Plant - aka Smart Maritime Group - Kherson Shipyard (before the special operation, it was part of the Smart Holding group of Vadim Novinsky). Kherson was, in principle, the cradle of our Black Sea Fleet (its history began with the creation of a shipyard here back in the 18th century), but this particular plant was founded in 1951. The existing production facilities are based on two production zones. In the first, units up to 2000 tons are formed in the so-called large-sized building for further movement to the construction berth (two lines of construction berths, each 300 m long). In the second, hull molding is carried out on a covered construction berth on two lines of berths, each 240 m long. Historically, the plant built ships up to 170 m long and with a deadweight of up to 16,000 tons.

    Here, in Kherson, the plant "Pallada" (founded in 1936 as a specialized plant for the construction of floating docks of reinforced concrete and composite construction) and the plant of ship equipment and ship fittings "Sudmash" (davits, hoists, winches, rectangular portholes, anchor devices, high-pressure hoses, marine fittings, marine hydraulic cylinders, etc.). That is, we can say that in Kherson there is a reserve for the formation of a new shipbuilding cluster.

    There is also shipbuilding in Mariupol, represented by the Azov Shipyard. Mariupol Shipyard was founded in 1931 on the basis of production workshops built at the end of the 19th century. The plant has a floating dock with a carrying capacity of 15 thousand tons and can serve vessels up to 200 m long, the approach channel provides the possibility of accepting vessels with a draft of up to 8 m for repair. The enterprise has the capacity to carry out major and dock repairs. The capacities of the enterprise allow to repair up to 120 ships annually, as well as to manufacture spare parts for any type of ships.

    It can be noted that Russia already has experience in resuscitation of the half-dead shipyard "Zaliv" in Kerch, which in a short time became a profitable first-class enterprise.

    Practice shows an extremely high degree of utilization of existing shipbuilding capacities in Russia, which leads to the transfer of orders to foreign suppliers, which technically could be done with us. So the lack of work for the new shipyards is hardly to be worried about. We need these shipyards.

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    Post  Podlodka77 Sun Sep 18, 2022 1:12 am



    The head of Ak Bars spoke about the modernization of Gepard-type corvettes

    Russian Naval Shipbuilding Industry: News - Page 33 Rk_dag10


    The armament of project 11661 Gepard 3.9 corvettes is planned to be tripled: instead of eight Uran missiles, 24 Kalibr missiles will be installed, as well as eight anti-aircraft missiles of the latest Resurs complex (export analogue of Poliment-Redut). This was reported to RIA Novosti by the general director of the Ak Bars shipbuilding corporation Renat Mistakhov.
    Previously, Project 11661 ships were armed with Uran and Caliber missile systems, as well as Osa anti-aircraft systems.
    "The Gepard 3.9 ships are a novelty, a highlight of this year. With a displacement of 2200 tons, we placed 24 Clubs on it (Club-S is the export analogue of the Caliber - ed.), as well as eight mines for Resurs "This is a deeply developed project," Mistakhov said.

    https://flot.com/2022/%D0%97%D0%B5%D0%BB%D0%B5%D0%BD%D0%BE%D0%B4%D0%BE%D0%BB%D1%8C%D1%81%D0%BA%D0%B8%D0%B9%D0%97%D0%B0%D0%B2%D0%BE%D0%B47/

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    Post  Big_Gazza Sun Sep 18, 2022 3:50 am

    Podlodka77 wrote:The head of Ak Bars spoke about the modernization of Gepard-type corvettes

    Is this for export Gepards (Vietnam has 4) or for those in Russian service (2)?

    If Russian, the Dagestan already has 1x UKSK silo, and Tatarstan only has dual quad Kh-35s. Updating with 3x UKSK would require very significant structural changes for such small (<2000 ton) vessels. Hardly seems worth the trouble, better to just build new ships?

    I suspect this is more about an updated design for export?
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    Post  GarryB Sun Sep 18, 2022 8:41 am

    Just on the face of it it sounds like they got the Redut and Calibre numbers mixed up... I would think 24 SAMs... being two launchers with 12 launch tubes each, and one UKSK launcher with 8 Calibres would be more likely and more practical in terms of fitting them on the ship.

    Here it only mentions Mariupol shiprepairing yard and the large Kherson shipyard, as Nikolaev (where 3 of the largest shipyards of Soviet Union were located) is still in Ukrainian hands.

    The intention is demilitarising the Ukraine so even if all the existing shipyards are rebuilt, they will be rebuilt to build civilian vessels and not military ones.

    Those grain terminals have rendered Nikolaev no good for big ships, but then the market for smaller ships is likely bigger anyway.
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    Post  Podlodka77 Sun Sep 18, 2022 12:39 pm

    Big_Gazza wrote:
    Podlodka77 wrote:The head of Ak Bars spoke about the modernization of Gepard-type corvettes

    Is this for export Gepards (Vietnam has 4) or for those in Russian service (2)?  

    If Russian, the Dagestan already has 1x UKSK silo, and Tatarstan only has dual quad Kh-35s.  Updating with 3x UKSK would require very significant structural changes for such small (<2000 ton) vessels. Hardly seems worth the trouble, better to just build new ships?

    I suspect this is more about an updated design for export?


    I think it is still a project for the Vietnamese Navy, although the composition of the weapons mentioned in the text is not clear to me; 24 "Kalibar" rockets and eight missiles from the air defense system. According to some logic, it should be half and half, that is, 16 "Kalibar" missiles (two UKSK with 8 missiles each) and 16 rockets from the air defense system; probably "Redut". Anti-submarine weapons are not mentioned.
    The shipyard in Zelenodolsk also built these corvettes of project 11661 (for export) and small missile ships of project Karakurt 22800 and 21631 Buyan-M for Russian Navy.
    Perhaps you are right when you write that these may be only projects that serve to attract new buyers, for example Vietnam, which has already bought 4 frigates (version 3.9 mentioned in the text) and has plans for two more.

    A few days ago I reported the news that the Russians are planning to build small missile ships of the project 21635 "Sarsar" with increased strike capabilities, that is, with two UKSKs and a total of 16 missiles. Along with all that comes the marine variant of the Pantsyr system.

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    Post  Isos Sun Sep 18, 2022 1:11 pm

    They presented various models with increased numbers of VLS for the Gepard class.

    It's an export project mainly and russian navy hasn't showed interest in buying more of this class.
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    Post  Rodion_Romanovic Sun Sep 18, 2022 1:54 pm

    GarryB wrote:
    Here it only mentions Mariupol shiprepairing yard and the large Kherson shipyard, as Nikolaev (where 3 of the largest shipyards of Soviet Union were located) is still in Ukrainian hands.

    The intention is demilitarising the Ukraine so even if all the existing shipyards are rebuilt, they will be rebuilt to build civilian vessels and not military ones.

    Those grain terminals have rendered Nikolaev no good for big ships, but then the market for smaller ships is likely bigger anyway.
    The grain terminal in the middle of the black sea shipyard  can be dismantled. Rebuilding and modernising that shipyard would cost anyway much less than the new planned supershipyard in kotlin island (Sankt Petersburg).

    This does not mean that the kotlin shipyard project must be scrapped, it is only a cost and feasibility comparison.

    If Russia have a lot of planned order for both civilian and military fleets maybe they need all of those shipyards, also because they can finally completely stop ordering and building ships abroad.

    Russia is doing the military operation there. Kherson is already under russian control and Nikolaev will be next.

    At the end of it either Russia win and these regions will be integrated into the russian federation or if they leave Ukraine without gains next step will be the dismemberment of Russia. In that case the shipyards in Sankt Petersburg and maybe Murmansk will be the only remaining in a much smaller Russia, as at least, Kaliningrad, Crimea and the far East will soon be part of foreign countries.

    Thus the demilitarisation of Ukraine does not mean that Russia will not keep equipment, bases and possible military industries in the recovered areas of Novorossia that become again fully russian regions.

    So Kherson and Nikolayev shipyards will receive a similar treatment as the large Kerch shipyard in Crimea (Zaliv)

    Furthermore restarting large ship production there will probably help a lot in recovering the pride and getting the goodwill of the local population.

    Back to Nikolaev.

    Okean shipyard (the civilian shipyard in Nikolaev) had also a quite large drydock (almost for sure not able to build supertankers and similar, but big enough for most civilian passenger and cargo ships).

    And the former communara 61 shipyard was able to build Slava class cruisers 49 years ago (in addition to being one of the oldest russian shipyard ever) (it could even be initially used as repair shipyard initially and maybe they could slowly bring it back to shape having some frigates for export built there.

    Yantar in Kaliningrad was helped a lot thanks to the contract for building the second serie of taiwar frigates for India...

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    Post  owais.usmani Mon Sep 19, 2022 6:32 pm

    Rodion_Romanovic wrote:
    At the end of it either Russia win and these regions will be integrated into the russian federation or if they leave Ukraine without gains next step will be the dismemberment of Russia. In that case the shipyards in Sankt Petersburg and maybe Murmansk will be the only remaining in a much smaller Russia, as at least, Kaliningrad, Crimea and the far East will soon be part of foreign countries.

    Couldn't agree more.

    Unless the big guys in Moscow get their act together soon and blow the shit out of Ukraine from north to south and east to west, Russia as we know today would not exist for long.
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    Post  GarryB Tue Sep 20, 2022 8:50 am

    Amazing the confidence you have in the west... the EU is more likely to break up than Russia... Russia is fending off attacks by hard core long term enemies (US and UK and France and Germany) trying to pull it apart... the EU is being destroyed by the US, and how stable is the US really?

    Building infrastructure in countries that may not be part of Russia is stupid... what was there before is not important because it is mostly gone... there is no incentive to rebuild Antonov for instance as that is only competition that no one wants.

    Big shipyards need orders and should not rely on Russian orders for profit.

    There was plenty of investment in Ukraine in the past by Russia... it didn't make a difference... they still rushed into the arms of the west when they got the chance shouting nazi chant and anti Russia slurs.

    We need to see what is going to be the result of this conflict before we plan building cottage industries for them to profit from.

    Half the farm land is owned by western companies now anyway... Perhaps start charging them enormous land rates as an income and if they refuse to pay take the land back and nationalise it for the people.

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    Post  Big_Gazza Tue Sep 20, 2022 9:47 am

    GarryB wrote:Half the farm land is owned by western companies now anyway...

    Not for long. Twisted Evil

    One of the first acts of the new (pro-Russian) regime should be to declare these land sales as "unconstitutional" and illegal. The affected lands need to be siezed and returned to the Ukrainain people without compensation being paid to the carpet baggers. Those who have enabled the land theft need to be arrested and prosecuted.

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    Post  Rodion_Romanovic Tue Sep 20, 2022 12:03 pm

    GarryB wrote:Amazing the confidence you have in the west... the EU is more likely to break up than Russia... Russia is fending off attacks by hard core long term enemies (US and UK and France and Germany) trying to pull it apart... the EU is being destroyed by the US, and how stable is the US really?

    Building infrastructure in countries that may not be part of Russia is stupid... what was there before is not important because it is mostly gone... there is no incentive to rebuild Antonov for instance as that is only competition that no one wants.



    There was plenty of investment in Ukraine in the past by Russia... it didn't make a difference... they still rushed into the arms of the west when they got the chance shouting nazi chant and anti Russia slurs.

    We need to see what is going to be the result of this conflict before we plan building cottage industries for them to profit from.



    I agree that EU is much more likely to break up than Russia.

    I just mean that at this point, if they retire from Ukraine abandoning kherson, Zaporozhye oblast and the Donbass the consequence will be terrible for Russia.

    And also stopping the operation before having control of the whole coast until the Danube would be considered a failure too.

    Off topic rant start
    .
    It is not necessary to send them the whole army or to mobilize, or even to finish it within a couple of months...

    they can continue with the current pace if they believe it is the correct strategy and it will bring the desired results in the long run...
    However canceling the operation and failing in in liberating the whole south including Nikolaev and Odessa regions will be a huge debacle for Russia, and could bring consequences comparable to those that prompted the end of the Russian empire in the middle of WW1.

    Off topic rant end

    Back to that. Russia should not invest money on industry and infrastructure in the Ukraine if it remains a separate country (e.g even if it was a sort of fake ally like current Bielorussia).

    However if the region's are integrated into Russia and Nikolaev becomes legally as Russian as Voronez or Rostov, than it is fundamental to invest there and (slowly) rebuild infrastructure.

    Of course this is only valid once the special military operation is ended, the referendums for joining Russia are done and the decisions are approved by the russian Parlament and the russian President.

    GarryB wrote:
    Big shipyards need orders and should not rely on Russian orders for profit.

    The need is there...

    Many russian ships for civilian use are still built abroad, and just to make an example a few years ago Pella even took control of a shipyard near Hamburg in Germany, because they wanted a place where it was possible building larger ships.

    owais.usmani likes this post


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