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    Project 22800: "Karakurt" class missile ship

    Rodion_Romanovic
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    Project 22800: "Karakurt" class missile ship - Page 30 Empty Re: Project 22800: "Karakurt" class missile ship

    Post  Rodion_Romanovic Sat Dec 07, 2019 1:34 pm

    Btw, now that the 3 missile ships 22800 that were being built there are being transferred to Pella for completion, are there news about what the shipyard More in Feodosia is going to do?

    Are they going to start building Zubr class large hovercrafts?

    And is Pella going to control them until end of 2020 or will they release control on first January 2020?

    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Sat Dec 07, 2019 11:46 pm

    Isos is right. The Tu-95RTs was developed to find carriers and send target information to bombers and subs and to send mid-course guidance data to long-range anti-ship missiles like the P-6 and the P-35. The plane was put into service back in 1964.

    In the 1960s... they continued to use the aircraft, but haven't needed them since the late 1970s and early 1980s.

    It is the same with the old Ka-25 Hormone helicopters... the versions with the Yagi radar antenna on the nose were used for midcourse guidance of long range missiles... please point to me or publish some photos of any model of the Helix Ka-27 family with Yagi radar antenna on its nose for mid course guidance of missiles... hint.. you can't... because there aren't any.

    Does karakurt carry it ?

    Karakut carries a range of ESM and ECM pods designed to detect electronic signals... any radio communication from the Bismark would be detected and used to find the ship... besides they could simply radio the Royal Navy of the time and ask for information about the Bismarks location so they can sink it...

    Exactly.

    The ship would be bigger with the hangar and helipad but not much more expensive. Too bad they didn't go for such design from the start.

    On another thread they are talking about a new airborne radar system that weighs about 10kgs with a 1.2kg antenna with 0.1m resolution... I would suspect even a relatively small drone could carry that aloft...

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    hoom


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    Post  hoom Sun Dec 15, 2019 12:59 am

    Nice comparison pic
    Project 22800: "Karakurt" class missile ship - Page 30 07-8118913-22800
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    ult


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    Post  ult Thu Dec 26, 2019 12:07 pm

    Ussuriysk has been laid down on Amur Shipbuilding Plant.

    Project 22800: "Karakurt" class missile ship - Page 30 PkUpyhW

    https://www.aoosk.ru/press-center/news/na-amurskom-sudostroitelnom-zavode-zalozhili-malyy-raketnyy-korabl/

    https://structure.mil.ru/structure/forces/navy/news/more.htm?id=12268469@egNews
    George1
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    Post  George1 Fri Dec 27, 2019 2:23 am



    The ship is being built in accordance with the contract concluded on August 22, 2018 by the Russian Ministry of Defense for the construction of six small missile ships (RTOs) of project 22800, which are intended for the Pacific Fleet. Four of them should be built at Amur Shipbuilding Plant JSC (Komsomolsk-on-Amur) with delivery by 2026, and two ships at Vostochnaya Verf JSC (Vladivostok) with delivery at 2023.

    The first two Pacific RTOs of project 22800 “Rzhev” and “Udomlya” of project 22800 (code “Karakurt”) with serial numbers 201 and 202 were laid at the NEA on July 1, 2019. It is reported that the fourth ship of the Pavlovsk project with serial number 203 will be laid at the shipyard in May 2020.

    At the laying ceremony of the Ussuriysk regional missile complex, the director of the NPS Vladimir Kulakov announced that it was planned to deliver the small missile ships ordered to the plant ahead of the contract: not in 2026, as originally planned, but two laid down by the first Rzhev and Udomlya missiles in 2023 , two more - Ussuriysk and Pavlovsk, which is planned to be laid in May 2020, in 2024.
    PapaDragon
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    Post  PapaDragon Fri Dec 27, 2019 9:05 pm


    Model of Karaurt (on the left) with two sets of UKSK launchers:
    Project 22800: "Karakurt" class missile ship - Page 30 27-8186045-22800-mpk

    Have fun people Cool
    Isos
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    Post  Isos Fri Dec 27, 2019 9:15 pm

    Another subclass of a class of small ship. lol1 Every year they create a new class of missile boat or corvette. They should really stop. They will build two of them and next year start one with 3 uksk lol1 .

    What is the bigger ship ? Looks like an armed icebreaker research vessel.
    PapaDragon
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    Post  PapaDragon Fri Dec 27, 2019 9:57 pm

    Isos wrote:Another subclass of a class of small ship. lol1 Every year they create a new class of missile boat or corvette. They should really stop. They will build two of them and next year start one with 3 uksk lol1 .

    What is the bigger ship ? Looks like an armed icebreaker research vessel.

    Papanin arctic patrol icebreaker with extra weapons

    I posted this photo there as well
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Sat Dec 28, 2019 12:36 am

    Another subclass of a class of small ship. lol1 Every year they create a new class of missile boat or corvette. They should really stop.

    They are clearly not sure what they want so they start with icecream with sprinkles and they realise they need a chocolate flake, and now they want two... once they are happy with the balance of the ship they will then fix that order for every time they get taken out for icecream.

    It might seem like a pain in the ass at the moment but imagine the whining if you don't get it right and have to have something you don't like for the rest of your life?

    Especially considering this is a kid that during the cold war had custom designed everything... I have read a US Navy document from the late 1970s taking about the US introducing its new cruise missiles... Harpoon and Tomahawk... at a time when the Soviets had about 7 different anti ship missiles in service and now they have rather more but as they upgrade older ships the different types of missile is dwindling and their capacity to launch the missiles they have from any ship or sub they have is improving all the time...

    Patience. What a Face
    Hole
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    Post  Hole Sun Dec 29, 2019 11:02 am

    There is a video on Zvezda that shows some of these new weapons/systems. You can see that these Karakurt version does not only have 16 silos for cruise missiles but another VLS system behind the funnel.
    Isos
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    Post  Isos Sun Dec 29, 2019 12:11 pm

    Hole wrote:There is a video on Zvezda that shows some of these new weapons/systems. You can see that these Karakurt version does not only have 16 silos for cruise missiles but another VLS system behind the funnel.

    It must be for 9m100 or tor since you can see there is no pantsir in the back as in the original design.
    PapaDragon
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    Post  PapaDragon Sun Dec 29, 2019 3:27 pm

    Hole wrote:There is a video on Zvezda that shows some of these new weapons/systems. You can see that these Karakurt version does not only have 16 silos for cruise missiles but another VLS system behind the funnel.

    This is quite a healthy approach provided that they keep majority of components from vanilla Karakurt

    They will get much superior platform for practically same price and build time

    With Zircon coming around something like this will be quite welcome, basically a small vessel that will pose huge risk for much larger and expensive enemy ships which would require a lot of resources dedicated to keeping track of them thus reducing pressure on other much more valuable vessels and especially locations



    Hole
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    Post  Hole Sun Dec 29, 2019 3:55 pm

    Ship will be a few metres longer, that´s it.

    To the air defence system: as the first ship was put into water and I saw the first pic from above I noticed that instead of the Pantsir-M system there was enough space to fit a Redut VLS system. It seems, someone is listening to me. Laughing
    Isos
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    Post  Isos Sun Dec 29, 2019 4:46 pm

    Ship will be a few metres longer, that´s it.

    Then they should build all the already started ships to this level if it is only a matter of lenght. They are small ship, it must easy to make them longer even if they are already started as it is the same design. Even the one finished could go back in shipyard, be cut and add the second uksk.

    They could have proposed this design since the start of the project. Actually they shoukd have shown even a Gorshkov with different numbers of VLS to the MoD so that they decide the best design instead of making one.
    PapaDragon
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    Post  PapaDragon Sun Dec 29, 2019 5:19 pm

    Isos wrote:
    Ship will be a few metres longer, that´s it.

    Then they should build all the already started ships to this level if it is only a matter of lenght. They are small ship, it must easy to make them longer even if they are already started as it is the same design. Even the one finished could go back in shipyard, be cut and add the second uksk.

    They could have proposed this design since the start of the project. Actually they shoukd have shown even a Gorshkov with different numbers of VLS to the MoD so that they decide the best design instead of making one.

    Adding double the amount of VLS tubes plus entire new AA system is not something you can do on the fly


    PapaDragon
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    Post  PapaDragon Sun Dec 29, 2019 11:14 pm

    Hole wrote:There is a video on Zvezda that shows some of these new weapons/systems. You can see that these Karakurt version does not only have 16 silos for cruise missiles but another VLS system behind the funnel.

    Here is video:
    (not much else there)

    And here is still from that video, it looks like it's a bit longer than just several meters, most likely they will add another central hull segment and modify rear superstructure. Could have more range as well but who knows.

    There are 2x4 AA launchers (Redut most likely) and two CIWS.

    And are those torpedo tubes in the back?

    This looks like very well rounded package and with readily available components, hopefully the go with it.   thumbsup
    Project 22800: "Karakurt" class missile ship - Page 30 30-8195021-22800
    Isos
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    Post  Isos Sun Dec 29, 2019 11:32 pm

    8 redut cells for 32 9m100 or 8 9m96 which would be hard to use with its small radar at max range unless if they want to use the 150km version against patrol aircraft and cover subs with it. Their radar should have no problem tracking a p8 at 150km.

    The 2×6 boxes seems to be paket nk which suppose a sonar in the front.

    It's a little frigate. Will need many more crew to operate compare to original Karakurt. But the role it has is mostly done by Steregoushy class variants which have paket redut and uksk.

    So they want the smaller karakurt to do the role of bigger corvettes while those corvettes would do the work of frigates while frigates is what they really need but in the same time they say corvette can replace them whike they never left russian territorial waters.

    I think they are kinda lost.
    PapaDragon
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    Post  PapaDragon Sun Dec 29, 2019 11:40 pm

    Isos wrote:.....It's a little frigate. .

    It's barely a corvette



    Isos wrote:....Will need many more crew to operate compare to original Karakurt. But the role it has is mostly done by Steregoushy class variants which have paket redut and uksk. .

    They will need extra 10 people at most

    Karakurt has complement of 39 while Steregushi has 99

    It's not even close



    Isos wrote:....I think they are kinda lost.

    I think they know exactly what they are doing

    Isos
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    Post  Isos Sun Dec 29, 2019 11:51 pm

    They will need extra 10 people at most

    Karakurt has complement of 39 while Steregushi has 99

    It's not even close

    Depend how long you want to use during deployment.
    If you plan to use it for days like a corvette is used you will need crew rotation inside the ship so you can multiply by 2 the total crew.

    Missile boats are use for a couple of hours just to fire their missiles and their air def system is just to defend themselves during those couple of hours.

    I think they know exactly what they are doing

    If they knew so well they would have asked the original karanurt to be increased in size to fit 2 uksk.  And they would have asked to increase the number of uksk on gorshkov from the start. And they wouldn't have 3 or 4 different steregouchshy variant in service.

    They are screwing up and it's time to replace the decision makers because if those mistakes happen with destroyers, cruisers and carriers there won't be a new serie of ship to correct them. They will have unwanted big ships for the next 40 years.
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    Post  PapaDragon Mon Dec 30, 2019 12:03 am

    Isos wrote:......If you plan to use it for days like a corvette .....

    It's a missile ship with extra features not a corvette

    Two weeks same as always



    Isos wrote:.....They are screwing up and it's time to replace the decision makers because if those mistakes happen with destroyers, cruisers and carriers there won't be a new serie of ship to correct them. They will have unwanted big ships for the next 40 years.

    There won't be any destroyers, cruisers and carriers for decades to come

    Large frigates in foreseeable future




    Big_Gazza
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    Post  Big_Gazza Mon Dec 30, 2019 1:37 am

    The model features an exhaust stack on the upper superstructure instead of the usual near-waterline exhaust ports. Indicative of a propulsion upgrade to MGTs instead of diesels?

    Its a significant increase in length, maybe 30% on the standard 22800, so an engine upgrade would be needed to maintain performance.
    George1
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    Post  George1 Tue Dec 31, 2019 12:16 pm

    The armament includes:
    2x8 UKSK universal vertical launchers, 9M100 anti-aircraft missiles in vertical launchers on the aft superstructure, 2X4-launchers of the Paket-NK anti-torpedo protection complex, one 76-mm artillery mount and two modified 30-mm anti-aircraft artillery systems

    https://bmpd.livejournal.com/3892028.html
    PapaDragon
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    Post  PapaDragon Tue Dec 31, 2019 2:25 pm

    George1 wrote:The armament includes:
    2x8 UKSK universal vertical launchers, 9M100 anti-aircraft missiles in vertical launchers on the aft superstructure, 2X4-launchers of the Paket-NK anti-torpedo protection complex, one 76-mm artillery mount and two modified 30-mm anti-aircraft artillery systems

    https://bmpd.livejournal.com/3892028.html


    That looks more like 2x6 Paket launchers with two top tubes being larger than others for some reason

    Some folks call this anti-sub version but I don't think it would fit the bill because it has no helicopter which would be far more useful for anti-sub work than anything else which was added

    Plus there don't seem to be any sonars on it

    This looks more like anti-ship/land-attack boat with Paket-NK added for self protection against enemy torpedos

    They could have decided to change propulsion because diesel engines have been delivered at very unsatisfactory pace so they decided to use benefits provided by CODAG and add some features

    This new version if built will be doing same job as vanilla Karakurt while being much better at it





    Isos
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    Post  Isos Tue Dec 31, 2019 3:27 pm

    They talked about a ASW karakurt. Maybe it is this one.

    Plus there don't seem to be any sonars on it

    And how would they use paket nk if there is no sonar ? Put their heads into water and listen with their ears ?! lol1
    Hole
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    Post  Hole Tue Dec 31, 2019 3:38 pm

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