Project 22800: "Karakurt" class missile ship

All those, ships, were renamed due to Soviet Union destruction.

Names have been changed before... mostly likely for political reasons, but it is not like it has never happened before.

It is normal for ships to change names when adopted by new owners too.

The new owner gets to decide on the name of the ship... which is pretty normal practise I would think...

Thats from navy day prep I believe.

Some interior pics & other details https://iz.ru/828378/aleksei-kozachenko-aleksei-ramm/vooruzhen-i-ochen-komforten-vmf-rossii-poluchil-tcifrovoi-raketonosetc

Apparently next 22800 will be laid down on 26th at Zelenodolsk https://flotprom.ru/2019/%D0%97%D0%B5%D0%BB%D0%B5%D0%BD%D0%BE%D0%B4%D0%BE%D0%BB%D1%8C%D1%81%D0%BA%D0%B8%D0%B9%D0%97%D0%B0%D0%B2%D0%BE%D0%B43/

According to that there are 5 already under construction but per wiki/russianships.info its 5 ordered & 3 laid-down at Kerch or Feodosia (I forget which is linked to Zelenodolsk) so this is probably 4th of 5.

Edit: Zaliv Kerch according to ppl at Balancer.

Plate has Pantsir-M & radar mast/dome

I'm still unclear if this one has actually been laid-down at Zelenodolsk or is another in Crimea.

hoom wrote:Plate has Pantsir-M & radar mast/dome
https://2019.f.a0z.ru/02/26-7230937-p-20190226-123507.jpg.......

Pantsir is standard now for Karakurts

George1 wrote:

....... Karakurt-class missile corvette Tucha for the Russian Navy...

More:
http://tass.com/defense/1046432

'Tucha' should mean 'hale' (in Serbian it means 'brawl' )

Will they be renaming this one as well? What about others, what's the naming situation with those?

The Zelenodolsk Shipyard in Tatarstan in the Volga area

Yes but a bunch of the reporting also claims there are 3 already under construction at Zelenodolsk while they're actually being built in Crimea.

Pantsir is standard now for Karakurts

Yes but this is the first one with the full mast & dome change represented on the plate.

PapaDragon wrote:

hoom wrote:Plate has Pantsir-M & radar mast/dome
https://2019.f.a0z.ru/02/26-7230937-p-20190226-123507.jpg.......

Pantsir is standard now for Karakurts

When those new SM with 40km range ?

https://bmpd.livejournal.com/3548133.html

BMPD thinks this one is actually going to be built in Zelenodolsk.

The big question now is if Zvezda can manage to start putting out the engines at reasonable rate.
I'd like to see more hulls brought up to near complete status in the meantime though so that engines can be slotted in when available & nearly immediately start trials.

hoom wrote:https://bmpd.livejournal.com/3548133.html

BMPD thinks this one is actually going to be built in Zelenodolsk.

The big question now is if Zvezda can manage to start putting out the engines at reasonable rate.
I'd like to see more hulls brought up to near complete status in the meantime though so that engines can be slotted in when available & nearly immediately start trials.

Ship`s plate says clearly it will be built at Zelenodolsk shipyard. Engines are still a problematic issue! They are light, powerful, but they have certain service limitations. I don`t understand. At their heyday, they were capable of producing about 100 engines a year, no less. What happened?!

PapaDragon wrote:[
'Tucha' should mean 'hale' (in Serbian it means 'brawl' )

in Russian ( туча ) AFAIK "heavy dark cloud" which is likely start to intense rain" but best would be ask native, but not form NZ

kumbor wrote:

hoom wrote:https://bmpd.livejournal.com/3548133.html

BMPD thinks this one is actually going to be built in Zelenodolsk.

The big question now is if Zvezda can manage to start putting out the engines at reasonable rate.
I'd like to see more hulls brought up to near complete status in the meantime though so that engines can be slotted in when available & nearly immediately start trials.

Ship`s plate says clearly it will be built at Zelenodolsk shipyard. Engines are still a problematic issue! They are light, powerful, but they have certain service limitations. I don`t understand. At their heyday, they were capable of producing about 100 engines a year, no less. What happened?!

Source on engine issue.  Cause engine issue has been resolved since last year.

The issue actually has to do with MTU engines of a specific type were being built by one company.  Only recently they were forced to allow other companies to also manufacture the same engine.

miketheterrible wrote:

kumbor wrote:

hoom wrote:https://bmpd.livejournal.com/3548133.html

BMPD thinks this one is actually going to be built in Zelenodolsk.

The big question now is if Zvezda can manage to start putting out the engines at reasonable rate.
I'd like to see more hulls brought up to near complete status in the meantime though so that engines can be slotted in when available & nearly immediately start trials.

Ship`s plate says clearly it will be built at Zelenodolsk shipyard. Engines are still a problematic issue! They are light, powerful, but they have certain service limitations. I don`t understand. At their heyday, they were capable of producing about 100 engines a year, no less. What happened?!

Source on engine issue.  Cause engine issue has been resolved since last year.

The issue actually has to do with MTU engines of a specific type were being built by one company.  Only recently they were forced to allow other companies to also manufacture the same engine.

@ Mike the terrible... Sorry, what MTU engines... Germans are complying to sanctions against Russia. DagDizel JSC had a licence to build some models of 396 range, which are outdated. Russia didn`t resolve huge problems of gas turbines, for the production of which it has full documentation. Four years of standstill! Shame! And state of the art diesels, fast revving, are not in production in Russia, except Zvezda 7 row radials, There is a chinese alternative of suspicious quality. Russia to rely on imported high speed diesels, do not joke with me, it is simply PROHIBITED IN SUBSTANCE!

Chinese alternative to MTUs is for Buyan-Ms.

Ppl at Balancer indicate Zvezda hasn't increased rate of production, Kingsieppe still far from being able to produce them.

Also '2nd' boat is apparently still waiting for engines...
(I think its 2nd serial = 3rd overall or the actual 2nd had a fault requiring replacement)

2nd boat earlier in the month

1st @Baltysk



2nd, 3rd & 4th @Pella

hoom wrote:Chinese alternative to MTUs is for Buyan-Ms.

Ppl at Balancer indicate Zvezda hasn't increased rate of production, Kingsieppe still far from being able to produce them.

And why is zvezda constantly delaying? We may be seeing izd.30s arriving in service earlier than any Russian warship engine at this rate.

It takes time to develop engines and test their reliability...typically 4 to 10 years with decent funding and whether it has a base platform already or not.

southpark wrote:It takes time to develop engines and test their reliability...typically 4 to 10 years with decent funding and whether it has a base platform already or not.

The zvezda M507 diesel engines for the karakurt are old soviet era engines that were already in service for decades.

It takes time to develop engines and test their reliability

Except the M-507 is an existing Soviet era design with 2* 56 cylinder M-504 linked together.
The problem is Zvezda were producing single digit numbers of M-504 per year in the post-Soviet era, suddenly got an order for 18*3*2 = 108 M-504 engines (6048 cylinders) ASAP.
The Management made apparently unsustainable (possibly outright fraudulent) claims about their ability to scale-up production.

On top of that (& partially excusing) they've been in parallel developing an entirely new ship gearbox manufacturing facility and design/building gearboxes and test-stands for a whole slew of ships.
Not just ships but Naval ships expected to do ASW work -> be significantly more quiet than normal ship gearboxes.

Has been big concern that a lot of institutional knowledge has been tied up in very senior & even post-retirement staff.
Recent post at Balancer forum indicates several of those have recently quit

hoom wrote:

It takes time to develop engines and test their reliability

Except the M-507 is an existing Soviet era design with 2* 56 cylinder M-504 linked together.
The problem is Zvezda were producing single digit numbers of M-504 per year in the post-Soviet era, suddenly got an order for 18*3*2 = 108 M-504 engines (6048 cylinders) ASAP.
The Management made apparently unsustainable (possibly outright fraudulent) claims about their ability to scale-up production.

On top of that (& partially excusing) they've been in parallel developing an entirely new ship gearbox manufacturing facility and design/building gearboxes and test-stands for a whole slew of ships.
Not just ships but Naval ships expected to do ASW work -> be significantly more quiet than normal ship gearboxes.

Has been big concern that a lot of institutional knowledge has been tied up in very senior & even post-retirement staff.
Recent post at Balancer forum indicates several of those have recently quit

So the problem is lack of good mechanical engineers in Zvezda and lack of enough plant machinery? Machinery for producing soviet era engines should be very simple to come by, since they're not cutting edge technology.

I think mainly the staff.
But the Soviet gearbox manufacturing was in Ukraine -> that is a brand new facility with modern machines & presumably nobody/few with experience making naval gearboxes.