Russia Defence Forum

Would you like to react to this message? Create an account in a few clicks or log in to continue.

Military Forum for Russian and Global Defence Issues


+67
Backman
Yugo90
limb
Big_Gazza
Arrow
LMFS
The-thing-next-door
x_54_u43
ultimatewarrior
william.boutros
mnztr
calripson
Admin
southpark
bolshevik345
magnumcromagnon
verkhoturye51
George1
Labrador
Gibraltar
dino00
Honesroc
Tsavo Lion
Tingsay
flamming_python
GarryB
miketheterrible
Hole
GunshipDemocracy
Russian Patriot
Isos
kumbor
zardof
BM-21
Azi
Peŕrier
Luq man
AlfaT8
KiloGolf
KomissarBojanchev
Rodion_Romanovic
Benya
TheArmenian
SeigSoloyvov
franco
hoom
PapaDragon
kvs
chicken
miroslav
JohninMK
sepheronx
marat
Vann7
max steel
ult
Cyberspec
Project Canada
zg18
Glyph
Mike E
2SPOOKY4U
medo
artjomh
Cucumber Khan
Viktor
Austin
71 posters

    Project 22800: "Karakurt" class missile ship

    PapaDragon
    PapaDragon


    Posts : 12361
    Points : 12421
    Join date : 2015-04-26
    Location : Fort Evil, Serbia

    Project 22800: "Karakurt" class missile ship - Page 13 Empty Re: Project 22800: "Karakurt" class missile ship

    Post  PapaDragon Thu Nov 23, 2017 9:09 pm

    Peŕrier wrote:...............

    Actually, Karakurt are in line with most of the world's corvettes in the ratio weapon/displacement.

    They have no hangar and no helicopter support facilities, no ASW weapons and sensors, almost no AAW weapons.

    They are mostly FAC, with cruise missiles taking the place of ASh missiles.

    Karakurts ARE NOT corvettes and never will be. They don't have ASW and AAW sensors and weapons because they ARE NOT corvettes.

    They are MISSILE SHIPS.

    Corvettes in Russian Navy start with Steregushi class and above.
    avatar
    Peŕrier


    Posts : 275
    Points : 273
    Join date : 2017-10-15

    Project 22800: "Karakurt" class missile ship - Page 13 Empty Re: Project 22800: "Karakurt" class missile ship

    Post  Peŕrier Thu Nov 23, 2017 10:09 pm

    I agree. As a matter of fact, on the same post I added that a Karakurt is mainly a FAC (missile boat), not a corvette.

    The reasoning about weapon/displacement was because some forumers made a comparison to other kind of vessels,stating that Karakurt are armed to the teeth.

    Well, they are not, they simply have the displacement required to embark UKSK and related systems.
    Big_Gazza
    Big_Gazza


    Posts : 3520
    Points : 3518
    Join date : 2014-08-25
    Location : Melbourne, Australia

    Project 22800: "Karakurt" class missile ship - Page 13 Empty Re: Project 22800: "Karakurt" class missile ship

    Post  Big_Gazza Fri Nov 24, 2017 3:47 am

    PapaDragon wrote:Karakurts ARE NOT corvettes and never will be. They don't have ASW and AAW sensors and weapons because they ARE NOT corvettes.

    They are MISSILE SHIPS.

    Corvettes in Russian Navy start with Steregushi class and above.

    Easiest to simply consider them to be modernised equivalents of the Soviet-era Nanuchka and Tarantul class missile boats. Heavy AShM, artillery, short-range SAM, CIWS, limited endurance. Difference is that the new boats now have long range surface strike capabilities.
    GunshipDemocracy
    GunshipDemocracy


    Posts : 5420
    Points : 5444
    Join date : 2015-05-17
    Location : fishin on Stalin´s Strait between Mexico and Canada

    Project 22800: "Karakurt" class missile ship - Page 13 Empty Re: Project 22800: "Karakurt" class missile ship

    Post  GunshipDemocracy Fri Nov 24, 2017 3:56 am

    Big_Gazza wrote:
    Easiest to simply consider them to be modernised equivalents of the Soviet-era Nanuchka and Tarantul class missile boats.  Heavy AShM, artillery, short-range SAM, CIWS, limited endurance.  Difference is that the new boats now have long range surface strike capabilities.

    Karakurt vs Nanuchka
    8 vs 6/4 missiles
    1000 vs 110 km range
    4000 vs 2500 miles autonomy

    8Ma vs 0.9 Ma missiles' speed


    Something changed tho.



    BM-21
    BM-21


    Posts : 40
    Points : 42
    Join date : 2017-09-30

    Project 22800: "Karakurt" class missile ship - Page 13 Empty Re: Project 22800: "Karakurt" class missile ship

    Post  BM-21 Fri Nov 24, 2017 5:24 am

    Karakurt is a perfect ship for the needs of the Russian Navy. The Russian Navy needs cruise missile launch platforms and instead of waiting a decade or two for the construction of a whole series of destroyers they can fill the gaps with small and cheap boats that can be built very quickly.
    avatar
    Azi


    Posts : 567
    Points : 559
    Join date : 2016-04-05

    Project 22800: "Karakurt" class missile ship - Page 13 Empty Re: Project 22800: "Karakurt" class missile ship

    Post  Azi Fri Nov 24, 2017 12:42 pm

    PapaDragon wrote:
    Karakurts ARE NOT corvettes and never will be. They don't have ASW and AAW sensors and weapons because they ARE NOT corvettes.

    They are MISSILE SHIPS.

    Corvettes in Russian Navy start with Steregushi class and above.
    In western classification Karakurt is a corvette. Everything above speed and patrol boat is a corvette. After that frigate, destroyer etc. Ok, in russian classification Karakurt is missile ship, that's right ^^

    It's funny that Steregushchiy class is in western classification a corvette on border to frigate Very Happy
    avatar
    Azi


    Posts : 567
    Points : 559
    Join date : 2016-04-05

    Project 22800: "Karakurt" class missile ship - Page 13 Empty Re: Project 22800: "Karakurt" class missile ship

    Post  Azi Fri Nov 24, 2017 12:55 pm

    Peŕrier wrote:The reasoning about weapon/displacement was because some forumers made a comparison to other kind of vessels,stating that Karakurt are armed to the teeth.

    Well, they are not, they simply  have the displacement required to embark UKSK and related systems.
    Compare the Karakurt with western pendants! A small ship with the armament of Kalibr (UKSK system) and the ability to attack high value targets is not bad. In US Navy you have the same attack capability with Burkes (ok, a few cruise missile more...). The german K 130 corvette has a attack range of around 280 km with AGM-84 Harpoon, the russian 3M54 missile has a range of 530 km.
    Isos
    Isos


    Posts : 9585
    Points : 9571
    Join date : 2015-11-06

    Project 22800: "Karakurt" class missile ship - Page 13 Empty Re: Project 22800: "Karakurt" class missile ship

    Post  Isos Fri Nov 24, 2017 1:36 pm

    Azi wrote:
    Peŕrier wrote:The reasoning about weapon/displacement was because some forumers made a comparison to other kind of vessels,stating that Karakurt are armed to the teeth.

    Well, they are not, they simply  have the displacement required to embark UKSK and related systems.
    Compare the Karakurt with western pendants! A small ship with the armament of Kalibr (UKSK system) and the ability to attack high value targets is not bad. In US Navy you have the same attack capability with Burkes (ok, a few cruise missile more...). The german K 130 corvette has a attack range of around 280 km with AGM-84 Harpoon, the russian 3M54 missile has a range of 530 km.

    That's not because of western capabilities to do so. It's because of their naval philosophy. They want blue navies with big ships.

    US had mk-41 VLS able to fire Tomahawks in the 70s. They could have designed a smal corvette armed with it like 50 years ago ...

    Stop this argument of "missile boat armed like a destroyer". That's pathetic. The reality is that any Admiral would want destroyer instead of Karakurts even Russians. They have only 8 missiles and are easy target for aviation if they are not covered by other assests like fighter or bigger ship.

    They just have to replace their light ships and can't build enough big ships. That's why they build them even if it is a nice ship.

    In US Navy you have the same attack capability with Burkes (ok, a few cruise missile more...).

    No they don't. Burkes can go from US to Syria and lunch an Attack that would recquire 7 Karakurts and be protected by their own AEGIS.

    How would you lunch a cruise missile Attack so far with karakurts they would be destroyed before reaching the lunch position.

    That's reality
    avatar
    hoom


    Posts : 2353
    Points : 2341
    Join date : 2016-05-06

    Project 22800: "Karakurt" class missile ship - Page 13 Empty Re: Project 22800: "Karakurt" class missile ship

    Post  hoom Fri Nov 24, 2017 1:38 pm

    Typhoon is launched.
    Pics via Balancer
    Project 22800: "Karakurt" class missile ship - Page 13 24-5638721-mrk-tajfun
    Project 22800: "Karakurt" class missile ship - Page 13 24-5638721-tajfun
    Project 22800: "Karakurt" class missile ship - Page 13 24-5638721-tajfun-1
    Project 22800: "Karakurt" class missile ship - Page 13 24-5638721-tajfun-2
    Project 22800: "Karakurt" class missile ship - Page 13 9fd825028cc167b0bb0095ae8757a08a
    Project 22800: "Karakurt" class missile ship - Page 13 39eec388465ae4b1c02376a16398fc90
    Project 22800: "Karakurt" class missile ship - Page 13 20-5625401-mrk-tajfun-3
    Project 22800: "Karakurt" class missile ship - Page 13 20-5625401-mrk-tajfun-2
    Project 22800: "Karakurt" class missile ship - Page 13 20-5625401-mrk-tajfun-1
    Project 22800: "Karakurt" class missile ship - Page 13 22-5632177-tajfun
    Project 22800: "Karakurt" class missile ship - Page 13 22-5632177-577

    And a couple from Flotprom http://flotprom.ru/2017/%D0%9F%D0%B5%D0%BB%D0%BB%D0%B017/
    Project 22800: "Karakurt" class missile ship - Page 13 %D0%A1%D0%BF%D1%83%D1%81%D0%BA%20%D0%BD%D0%B0%20%D0%B2%D0%BE%D0%B4%D1%83%20%D0%BA%D0%B0%D1%80%D0%B0%D0%BA%D1%83%D1%80%D1%82%D0%B0%20%D0%9F%D0%B5%D0%BB%D0%BB%D0%B0%202
    Project 22800: "Karakurt" class missile ship - Page 13 %D0%A1%D0%BF%D1%83%D1%81%D0%BA%20%D0%BD%D0%B0%20%D0%B2%D0%BE%D0%B4%D1%83%20%D0%BA%D0%B0%D1%80%D0%B0%D0%BA%D1%83%D1%80%D1%82%D0%B0%20%D0%9F%D0%B5%D0%BB%D0%BB%D0%B0

    This one has launched with the radar panels in place Very Happy
    Project 22800: "Karakurt" class missile ship - Page 13 24-5639181-7-71c4871b
    avatar
    Peŕrier


    Posts : 275
    Points : 273
    Join date : 2017-10-15

    Project 22800: "Karakurt" class missile ship - Page 13 Empty Re: Project 22800: "Karakurt" class missile ship

    Post  Peŕrier Fri Nov 24, 2017 6:13 pm

    Azi wrote:
    PapaDragon wrote:
    Karakurts ARE NOT corvettes and never will be. They don't have ASW and AAW sensors and weapons because they ARE NOT corvettes.

    They are MISSILE SHIPS.

    Corvettes in Russian Navy start with Steregushi class and above.
    In western classification Karakurt is a corvette. Everything above speed and patrol boat is a corvette. After that frigate, destroyer etc. Ok, in russian classification Karakurt is missile ship, that's right ^^

    It's funny that Steregushchiy class is in western classification a corvette on border to frigate Very Happy

    Not at all.

    Main definition of a corvette, in Western Navies, is of a ship NOT able to follow a Task Force (max speed not enough to keep pace with frigates and destroyers), mainly tasked with ASW, patrol and (or) ASh missions.

    So Karakurt is not a corvette in the western meaning.

    Its most close relative, in western navies, would be the Braunschweig Class, and that class superceded the Gepard class, a Fast attack Boat class.

    Stereguschy, in turn, are corvettes on steroids, very close to a 70's western frigate with the exeption of a full Diesel power plant aimed to endurance.
    avatar
    Peŕrier


    Posts : 275
    Points : 273
    Join date : 2017-10-15

    Project 22800: "Karakurt" class missile ship - Page 13 Empty Re: Project 22800: "Karakurt" class missile ship

    Post  Peŕrier Fri Nov 24, 2017 6:27 pm

    Isos wrote:
    Azi wrote:
    Peŕrier wrote:The reasoning about weapon/displacement was because some forumers made a comparison to other kind of vessels,stating that Karakurt are armed to the teeth.

    Well, they are not, they simply  have the displacement required to embark UKSK and related systems.
    Compare the Karakurt with western pendants! A small ship with the armament of Kalibr (UKSK system) and the ability to attack high value targets is not bad. In US Navy you have the same attack capability with Burkes (ok, a few cruise missile more...). The german K 130 corvette has a attack range of around 280 km with AGM-84 Harpoon, the russian 3M54 missile has a range of 530 km.

    That's not because of western capabilities to do so. It's because of their naval philosophy. They want blue navies with big ships.

    US had mk-41 VLS able to fire Tomahawks in the 70s. They could have designed a smal corvette armed with it like 50 years ago ...

    Stop this argument of "missile boat armed like a destroyer". That's pathetic. The reality is that any Admiral would want destroyer instead of Karakurts even Russians. They have only 8 missiles and are easy target for aviation if they are not covered by other assests like fighter or bigger ship.

    They just have to replace their light ships and can't build enough big ships. That's why they build them even if it is a nice ship.

    In US Navy you have the same attack capability with Burkes (ok, a few cruise missile more...).

    No they don't. Burkes can go from US to Syria and lunch an Attack that would recquire 7 Karakurts and be protected by their own AEGIS.

    How would you lunch a cruise missile Attack so far with karakurts they would be destroyed before reaching the lunch position.

    That's reality

    They wouldn't, because its not their mission.

    Karakurt are short range (in the meaning of ship's own endurance) land attack boats, able to perform Ash mission as well.

    They play two roles, first they provide a dispersed land attack capabilty, so that Russia have an attack platform at hand in any theater close to its borders without have to deploy its main ships, second they could provide a backup retaliation tool, if armed with long range nuclear tipped cruise missiles.

    They are not meant to cruise far from home waters, but to deploy and keep moving inside home waters.

    If I had to give them a bad note, it would be to the lack of any landing pad.

    At least a basic landing pad without any hangar (meaning of course a larger and longer hull) could be a real asset if any unusual task should be performed.
    PapaDragon
    PapaDragon


    Posts : 12361
    Points : 12421
    Join date : 2015-04-26
    Location : Fort Evil, Serbia

    Project 22800: "Karakurt" class missile ship - Page 13 Empty Re: Project 22800: "Karakurt" class missile ship

    Post  PapaDragon Fri Nov 24, 2017 8:17 pm

    Peŕrier wrote:
    Azi wrote:
    PapaDragon wrote:
    .

    Not at all.

    Main definition of a corvette, in Western Navies, is of a ship NOT able to follow a Task Force (max speed not enough to keep pace with frigates and destroyers), mainly tasked with ASW, patrol and (or) ASh missions.

    So Karakurt is not a corvette in the western meaning.

    Its most close relative, in western navies, would be the Braunschweig Class, and that class superceded the Gepard class, a Fast attack Boat class.

    Stereguschy, in turn, are corvettes on steroids, very close to a 70's western frigate with the exeption of a full Diesel power plant aimed to endurance.

    Actually Karakurt is fast enough to follow other Naval units, for example it's one knot faster than Gorshkov frigate (30 vs 29)

    Karakurts are supposed to either stay close to coast and do local patrols or, should need arise, tag along with larger ships and act as fire support (mini missile farms) 

    In both cases they would stay under air cover of either coastal assets or larger ships
    avatar
    Azi


    Posts : 567
    Points : 559
    Join date : 2016-04-05

    Project 22800: "Karakurt" class missile ship - Page 13 Empty Re: Project 22800: "Karakurt" class missile ship

    Post  Azi Fri Nov 24, 2017 8:36 pm

    Peŕrier wrote:

    Not at all.

    Main definition of a corvette, in Western Navies, is of a ship NOT able to follow a Task Force (max speed not enough to keep pace with frigates and destroyers), mainly tasked with ASW, patrol and (or) ASh missions.

    So Karakurt is not a corvette in the western meaning.

    Its most close relative, in western navies, would be the Braunschweig Class, and that class superceded the Gepard class, a Fast attack Boat class.

    Stereguschy, in turn, are corvettes on steroids, very close to a 70's western frigate with the exeption of a full Diesel power plant aimed to endurance.
    The "Braunschweig Class" is the K130 Class and clearly classified as corvette. K in K130 for "Korvette". The classification in western countries is mostly because of displacement, because displacement offers a lot of room for sensors, weapons, crew etc. No space is wasted! And most corvettes are quick as frigates and destroyers. The F125 "Baden Wüttemberg Class" (frigate on border to destroyer) has the same speed as the K130 "Braunschweig class" (corvette).

    The characteristics of a Fast Attack Boat is to be fast. Karakurt is not really fast. Most fast attack boats have a average displacement of 500 t and normal a speed 20 km/h or more above Karakurt Class. In every all western media, wikipedia, NATO papers etc Karakurt is classified as corvette and not as Fast Attack Boat.


    Last edited by Azi on Fri Nov 24, 2017 9:03 pm; edited 2 times in total (Reason for editing : Addition of information)
    avatar
    Azi


    Posts : 567
    Points : 559
    Join date : 2016-04-05

    Project 22800: "Karakurt" class missile ship - Page 13 Empty Re: Project 22800: "Karakurt" class missile ship

    Post  Azi Fri Nov 24, 2017 8:37 pm

    PapaDragon wrote:
    Karakurts are supposed to either stay close to coast and do local patrols or, should need arise, tag along with larger ships and act as fire support (mini missile farms) 

    In both cases they would stay under air cover of either coastal assets or larger ships
    Exact!
    avatar
    Azi


    Posts : 567
    Points : 559
    Join date : 2016-04-05

    Project 22800: "Karakurt" class missile ship - Page 13 Empty Re: Project 22800: "Karakurt" class missile ship

    Post  Azi Fri Nov 24, 2017 8:56 pm

    Isos wrote:Stop this argument of "missile boat armed like a destroyer". That's pathetic. The reality is that any Admiral would want destroyer instead of Karakurts even Russians. They have only 8 missiles and are easy target for aviation if they are not covered by other assests like fighter or bigger ship.

    .
    .

    No they don't. Burkes can go from US to Syria and lunch an Attack that would recquire 7 Karakurts and be protected by their own AEGIS.

    How would you lunch a cruise missile Attack so far with karakurts they would be destroyed before reaching the lunch position.

    That's reality
    First of all they have to spot and track the Karakurts. Karakurts Class have reduced radar signature, they have some "stealth qualities" and they are small ships. So to spot a Karakurt out of dozens or hundred civilian ships in the same area could be difficult. If enemy plane comes to near it will be also in danger, because of Pantsir-M.

    No one said that a Karakurt is in the same class like a Burke or Ticonderoga!!! But a volley of 8 Kalibr missile is a serious danger even for a Burke or Ticonderoga. Aegis combat system is not optimized for low flying cruise missile, in this case it is like every other radar system on other ships.

    Kalibr have greater range than Harpoon or Tomahawk (AS variant). The only western weapon that will have a greater range is LRASM, but it's still in development.

    No one said that Karakurt go out to hunt Burkes and Co. far away from Russia, somewhere in in the middle of a ocean. Karakurt have only a endurance of 2 weeks or so. But if enemy ships come close to Russian coast in Baltic Sea or Black Sea, they can face real danger from Karakurt. And it's a joker for retaliation against land targets.
    avatar
    Peŕrier


    Posts : 275
    Points : 273
    Join date : 2017-10-15

    Project 22800: "Karakurt" class missile ship - Page 13 Empty Re: Project 22800: "Karakurt" class missile ship

    Post  Peŕrier Fri Nov 24, 2017 10:01 pm


    The "Braunschweig Class" is the K130 Class and clearly classified as corvette. K in K130 for "Korvette". The classification in western countries is mostly because of displacement, because displacement offers a lot of room for sensors, weapons, crew etc. No space is wasted! And most corvettes are quick as frigates and destroyers. The F125 "Baden Wüttemberg Class" (frigate on border to destroyer) has the same speed as the K130 "Braunschweig class" (corvette).

    The characteristics of a Fast Attack Boat is to be fast. Karakurt is not really fast. Most fast attack boats have a average displacement of 500 t and normal a speed 20 km/h or more above Karakurt Class. In every all western media, wikipedia, NATO papers etc Karakurt is classified as corvette and not as Fast Attack Boat.[/quote]

    Nope. "K" means simply "Kampfschiff", i.e. "fighting ship".

    Al media reportig K meaning Korvette, even german media, are simply wrong, or better to say it's a posthomously applied meaning.

    For a comparison, the future german frigates are named in code MKS-180, with MKS meaning Mehrzweckkampfschiff, Mutirole Fighting Ship.

    Actually, in the german Navy they (K-130) are not even classified as "ship", but as "boat", and they were conceived as successors of the Gepard class attack boats.

    Even the officer in command o has a rank typical of small vessels, not of a "real" ship.

    And the relatively low speed was conceived because in the narrow waters they were destined to operate in, it was deemed of low priority, while far greater emphasys was given to ECM, CIWS and sensors, because air attacks were deemed to be by far the main threat to counter.

    It happened that following the end of the Cod War, their intended missions, sea interdition in Gulf of Finland and Baltic Sea, disappeared and the german Navy tried to employ them in roles typical of a corvette, with little success not only for thir teething problems, but mainly because they were never designed for such missions and are ill suited for long patrols.
    avatar
    Azi


    Posts : 567
    Points : 559
    Join date : 2016-04-05

    Project 22800: "Karakurt" class missile ship - Page 13 Empty Re: Project 22800: "Karakurt" class missile ship

    Post  Azi Fri Nov 24, 2017 10:27 pm

    Peŕrier wrote:
    Nope. "K" means simply "Kampfschiff", i.e. "fighting ship".

    Al media reportig K meaning Korvette, even german media, are simply wrong, or better to say it's a posthomously applied meaning.

    For a comparison, the future german frigates are named in code MKS-180, with MKS meaning Mehrzweckkampfschiff, Mutirole Fighting Ship.

    Actually, in the german Navy they (K-130) are not even classified as "ship", but as "boat", and they were conceived as successors of the Gepard class attack boats.
    Complete BULLSHIT! I'm german by the way Wink

    Z xxx -> Zerstörer (destroyer)
    F xxx -> Fregatte (frigate)
    K xxx -> Korvette (corvette)

    ALL other ships in German Navy have simply a class number!

    I qoute german wikipedia about K130...
    K130 - wikipedia wrote:Die Klasse 130[1] (nach dem Typschiff auch Braunschweig-Klasse genannt) ist eine Kriegsschiffklasse der Deutschen Marine. Die bisher fünf Korvetten bilden das 1. Korvettengeschwader im Marinestützpunkt Warnemünde. Der Schiffstyp ersetzt die kleineren Flugkörperschnellboote der Gepard-Klasse (143A) und kann bei weltweiten Einsätzen Aufgaben übernehmen, die zuvor mit höherem Personalaufwand von größeren Einheiten erfüllt wurden.

    I quote english wikipedia...
    K130 - wikipedia wrote:The K130 Braunschweig class (sometimes Korvette 130) is Germany's newest class of ocean-going corvettes. Five ships have replaced the Gepard-class fast attack craft of the German Navy. In October 2016 it was announced that a second batch of five more corvettes is to be procured from 2022-2025.[4] The decision was in response to NATO requirements expecting Germany to provide a total of four corvettes at the highest readiness level for littoral operations by 2018, and with only five corvettes just two can be provided.[5]

    There is no "Kampfschiff" as class in German Navy!!! The new "Mehrzweck Kampfschiff 180" in short MKS 180 is not the class. The new class will be K131 or F126, depending on later classification as corvette OR frigate. The word "Mehrzweck Kampfschiff 180" means only the project name, very like "Project 22800".
    avatar
    Peŕrier


    Posts : 275
    Points : 273
    Join date : 2017-10-15

    Project 22800: "Karakurt" class missile ship - Page 13 Empty Re: Project 22800: "Karakurt" class missile ship

    Post  Peŕrier Fri Nov 24, 2017 11:16 pm


    I wrote that MKS-180 is a code name, with the meaning of the project name, as K-130 was the project name for the Braunschweig class.

    By the way, the Braunschweig have a pennant number starting with F (meaning frigate in NATO coding system), followed by a 2, again as foreseen in the NATO coding system for the German Navy's frigates.

    Still it doesn't make them frigates.

    About calling them corvette, I read first time the definition when Braunschweig was launched, before they were referred as K130 or even Kl. 130 (Kl meaning Klass, I think) without referring them as corvettes, but stating they were intended to replace the previous fast attack boat.

    If I'm wrong, it's my fault, of course.

    But I'm pretty sure they were conceived at start as pimped replacements for attack boats.

    The experiments aimed to deploy them in corvette's typical roles were conducted past their induction in service, with not so satisfatory results.

    For a while it was considered a following, derived class referred to as K-131, to get vessels optimized for a corvette's role, but the project was abandoned given the cuts in the BVM's budget
    avatar
    Azi


    Posts : 567
    Points : 559
    Join date : 2016-04-05

    Project 22800: "Karakurt" class missile ship - Page 13 Empty Re: Project 22800: "Karakurt" class missile ship

    Post  Azi Fri Nov 24, 2017 11:29 pm

    Peŕrier wrote:
    I wrote that MKS-180 is a code name, with the meaning of the project name, as K-130 was the project name for the Braunschweig class.

    By the way, the Braunschweig have a pennant number starting with F (meaning frigate in NATO coding system), followed by a 2, again as foreseen in the NATO coding system for the German Navy's frigates.

    Still it doesn't make them frigates.

    About calling them corvette, I read first time the definition when Braunschweig was launched, before they were referred as K130 or even Kl. 130 (Kl meaning Klass, I think) without referring them as corvettes, but stating they were intended to replace the previous fast attack boat.

    If I'm wrong, it's my fault, of course.

    But I'm pretty sure they were conceived at start as pimped replacements for attack boats.

    The experiments aimed to deploy them in corvette's typical roles were conducted past their induction in service, with not so satisfatory results.

    For a while it was considered a following, derived class referred to as K-131, to get vessels optimized for a corvette's role, but the project was abandoned given the cuts in the BVM's budget
    Ah ok, i understand what you mean with "Kampfschiff"...

    It's only the project name. Classification in German Navy is never "Kampfschiff".

    The K130 is really the replacement for a fast attack boat, the "Gepard Class". But it's much bigger, slower and it's difficult to call it a real replacement, because it's a new ship with a different role.

    The pennant number really classifies the K130 as frigate (corvettes are included as frigates), but with subs where is also confusion...you have S and U...both Suspect But K130 is really a corvette, it's official! Sometimes called only Class 130 without the K, both is correct "Class 130" and Class K130".

    No problem ^^ cu


    Last edited by Azi on Fri Nov 24, 2017 11:39 pm; edited 3 times in total
    avatar
    hoom


    Posts : 2353
    Points : 2341
    Join date : 2016-05-06

    Project 22800: "Karakurt" class missile ship - Page 13 Empty Re: Project 22800: "Karakurt" class missile ship

    Post  hoom Fri Nov 24, 2017 11:31 pm

    More launch via Balancer
    Video


    And pics
    Project 22800: "Karakurt" class missile ship - Page 13 IMG_20171124_201619
    Project 22800: "Karakurt" class missile ship - Page 13 IMG_20171124_201523
    Project 22800: "Karakurt" class missile ship - Page 13 IMG_20171124_195314
    Project 22800: "Karakurt" class missile ship - Page 13 24-5639649-4605325
    Project 22800: "Karakurt" class missile ship - Page 13 24-5639649-4605369
    Project 22800: "Karakurt" class missile ship - Page 13 24-5639649-4605479
    Project 22800: "Karakurt" class missile ship - Page 13 24-5639649-4605480
    Project 22800: "Karakurt" class missile ship - Page 13 24-5639657-4605481
    Project 22800: "Karakurt" class missile ship - Page 13 24-5639657-4605482
    Project 22800: "Karakurt" class missile ship - Page 13 24-5640089-22800-tajfun-ssz-pella-24.11.2017
    avatar
    Azi


    Posts : 567
    Points : 559
    Join date : 2016-04-05

    Project 22800: "Karakurt" class missile ship - Page 13 Empty Re: Project 22800: "Karakurt" class missile ship

    Post  Azi Fri Nov 24, 2017 11:35 pm

    I love the design! love
    George1
    George1


    Posts : 17696
    Points : 18203
    Join date : 2011-12-22
    Location : Greece

    Project 22800: "Karakurt" class missile ship - Page 13 Empty Re: Project 22800: "Karakurt" class missile ship

    Post  George1 Fri Nov 24, 2017 11:53 pm

    Νο Pantsir, but 2 x AK-630 instead.
    avatar
    Azi


    Posts : 567
    Points : 559
    Join date : 2016-04-05

    Project 22800: "Karakurt" class missile ship - Page 13 Empty Re: Project 22800: "Karakurt" class missile ship

    Post  Azi Fri Nov 24, 2017 11:59 pm

    George1 wrote:Νο Pantsir, but 2 x AK-630 instead.
    Only CIWS? Won't get the future Models Pantsir-M? Suspect
    Big_Gazza
    Big_Gazza


    Posts : 3520
    Points : 3518
    Join date : 2014-08-25
    Location : Melbourne, Australia

    Project 22800: "Karakurt" class missile ship - Page 13 Empty Re: Project 22800: "Karakurt" class missile ship

    Post  Big_Gazza Sat Nov 25, 2017 2:19 am

    Pantsir from Unit #3 onwards... but we'll need to wait and see.
    avatar
    hoom


    Posts : 2353
    Points : 2341
    Join date : 2016-05-06

    Project 22800: "Karakurt" class missile ship - Page 13 Empty Re: Project 22800: "Karakurt" class missile ship

    Post  hoom Sun Nov 26, 2017 1:15 pm

    More launch pics at http://foto-i-mir.ru/22800-typhoon-171124/
    Really wondering when they'll get around to saying what those panel radar actually are...
    Its quite amazing how thoroughly Russian sources manage to avoid talking about it Suspect (not that there is much discussion in English sources either)

    Sponsored content


    Project 22800: "Karakurt" class missile ship - Page 13 Empty Re: Project 22800: "Karakurt" class missile ship

    Post  Sponsored content


      Current date/time is Tue Jul 05, 2022 1:49 am