Russia Defence Forum

Would you like to react to this message? Create an account in a few clicks or log in to continue.

Military Forum for Russian and Global Defence Issues


+58
ALAMO
RTN
jhelb
flamming_python
Russian_Patriot_
x_54_u43
Backman
limb
Kiko
TMA1
Lurk83
lyle6
The_Observer
Atmosphere
SeigSoloyvov
lancelot
mnztr
Stealthflanker
Viktor
JohninMK
Sujoy
xeno
Mindstorm
TheArmenian
d_taddei2
AlfaT8
dino00
thegopnik
ahmedfire
AJ-47
marcellogo
Arrow
PhSt
Kimppis
miketheterrible
BenVaserlan
Vann7
Cyberspec
william.boutros
Walther von Oldenburg
GarryB
kvs
bolshevik345
LMFS
Hole
hoom
medo
ult
The-thing-next-door
franco
George1
Big_Gazza
higurashihougi
calripson
magnumcromagnon
PapaDragon
Isos
kumbor
62 posters

    [Official] Armata Discussion thread #5

    lyle6
    lyle6

    Posts : 740
    Points : 742
    Join date : 2020-09-14
    Location : Philippines

    [Official] Armata Discussion thread #5 - Page 30 Empty Re: [Official] Armata Discussion thread #5

    Post  lyle6 Tue Aug 31, 2021 11:31 am

    medo wrote:This is what I call weight reduction with crewless turret.  I would not call those plates armor, as there is nothing behind to protect, but more turret shape plates.
    Its still armor; only just rationally designed to protect against medium calibres instead of trying (and failing) to protect against large calibre ammunition. For manned turrets you can't really get away with this since the gun mask area and the gun in between serves as protection for the crew against the incoming from high off boreshot angles. As such the mantlet needs to be a certain protection level to protect the crew. Either way, the gun is toast, so why bother?
    Russian_Patriot_
    Russian_Patriot_

    Posts : 1137
    Points : 1151
    Join date : 2021-06-08
    Location : Perm, Russia

    [Official] Armata Discussion thread #5 - Page 30 Empty Re: [Official] Armata Discussion thread #5

    Post  Russian_Patriot_ Sun Sep 05, 2021 4:05 pm

    Models of T-14 Armata and Object 195 tanks in 1/75 scale
    [Official] Armata Discussion thread #5 - Page 30 Rhibgk10

    GarryB, flamming_python, littlerabbit, Hole, lyle6 and lancelot like this post

    GarryB
    GarryB

    Posts : 30564
    Points : 31094
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    [Official] Armata Discussion thread #5 - Page 30 Empty Re: [Official] Armata Discussion thread #5

    Post  GarryB Mon Sep 06, 2021 3:48 am

    They showed a mast mounted camera system on the upgraded T-90s... suspect they might have something similar on the Armata too... they were talking about a tethered system, but a mast mounted one might be more practical in swirling winds and near wires and trees and bushes etc.
    Cyberspec
    Cyberspec

    Posts : 2907
    Points : 3062
    Join date : 2011-08-08
    Location : Terra Australis

    [Official] Armata Discussion thread #5 - Page 30 Empty Re: [Official] Armata Discussion thread #5

    Post  Cyberspec Mon Sep 06, 2021 6:59 am

    GarryB wrote:They showed a mast mounted camera system on the upgraded T-90s... suspect they might have something similar on the Armata too... they were talking about a tethered system, but a mast mounted one might be more practical in swirling winds and near wires and trees and bushes etc.

    They might have a mast...they've also hinted it will have it's own mini UAV for scouting

    __________

    Not sure if this has been posted here previously, but it's a pretty good overview of all the protection measures on the T-14

    miketheterrible
    miketheterrible

    Posts : 6124
    Points : 6100
    Join date : 2016-11-06

    [Official] Armata Discussion thread #5 - Page 30 Empty Re: [Official] Armata Discussion thread #5

    Post  miketheterrible Mon Sep 06, 2021 7:27 am

    TMA1 wrote:
    miketheterrible wrote:
    PapaDragon wrote:
    TMA1 wrote:...You misunderstood. There was supposedly engine trouble. The sources are west leaning so I usually come here to find out what is going on. Also I meant "recent" news.

    Never heard of it


    I think he is alluding to the fiasco that was the first showing of the Armata tank at May 9th celebration couple years ago.  It ended up being not the engine itself but bad oil.

    No that was just the guy not knowing exactly what he was doing. I am referring to troubles with the engine and production. Heard these rumors from sturgeonhouse or paralay some other place forgot which though i think it was paralay and the guy talking about the issue was strangely critical of armata platform but the ensuing conversation seemed to show there were indeed troubles. The two problems argued were the engine and APS. And no a lot of this you cant just "look up". Hence coming to a place where many people who have seen many things where you can more easily track down a source.

    Btw Lennox that second image is the best I've seen as far as armor thickness of the turret goes. Thanks!

    Edit: had to explain further in my post

    Then it may just be hearsay.

    These kind of projects takes time and problems always arise. But Russia, unlike US, will take time to release said products till issues resolved or alternatives are used.

    TMA1 likes this post

    TMA1
    TMA1

    Posts : 271
    Points : 273
    Join date : 2020-11-30

    [Official] Armata Discussion thread #5 - Page 30 Empty Re: [Official] Armata Discussion thread #5

    Post  TMA1 Tue Sep 07, 2021 5:07 am

    miketheterrible wrote:
    TMA1 wrote:
    miketheterrible wrote:
    PapaDragon wrote:
    TMA1 wrote:...You misunderstood. There was supposedly engine trouble. The sources are west leaning so I usually come here to find out what is going on. Also I meant "recent" news.

    Never heard of it


    I think he is alluding to the fiasco that was the first showing of the Armata tank at May 9th celebration couple years ago.  It ended up being not the engine itself but bad oil.

    No that was just the guy not knowing exactly what he was doing. I am referring to troubles with the engine and production. Heard these rumors from sturgeonhouse or paralay some other place forgot which though i think it was paralay and the guy talking about the issue was strangely critical of armata platform but the ensuing conversation seemed to show there were indeed troubles. The two problems argued were the engine and APS. And no a lot of this you cant just "look up". Hence coming to a place where many people who have seen many things where you can more easily track down a source.

    Btw Lennox that second image is the best I've seen as far as armor thickness of the turret goes. Thanks!

    Edit: had to explain further in my post

    Then it may just be hearsay.

    These kind of projects takes time and problems always arise.  But Russia, unlike US, will take time to release said products till issues resolved or alternatives are used.

    Thanks for the thoughtful reply bro. You are probably right btw. Only major issues I've heard about concerned the engine and APS but usually only ever heard this from people who obviously had some axe to grind. Still though I try to look at all sides and sometimes rumors have some place in fact (but this is certainly not always the case).
    GarryB
    GarryB

    Posts : 30564
    Points : 31094
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    [Official] Armata Discussion thread #5 - Page 30 Empty Re: [Official] Armata Discussion thread #5

    Post  GarryB Tue Sep 07, 2021 11:20 am

    The new engine for the Armata family of vehicles is a huge step forward for Russia, it was designed with growth potential built in to be a 1,500-1,800hp to start off with, but with further work and development and new materials to be up to a 2,500hp engine...

    That they will have problems with it is not exactly shocking, but as mentioned a conscript stalled a tank and the west went apeshit over how unreliable the engine is and all the problems they will have... sounds like the usual BS to me.

    Regarding the mast mounted sight in the T-90 thread there is a close up and the optics on top have a hand strap and the lens covers have to be manually opened and replaced to use or protect it.... so I am thinking that someone has just gotten some recon binoculars and attached them for show.

    Perhaps there is a drone that can land and take off from the mast position or it might have a different mast they were not ready to show just yet hense the substitution... but the optics shown would not be used for real IMHO.

    A flying tether attached drone might be able to fly from it and act like an arm attached drone normally, but this is not it.
    avatar
    Lennox

    Posts : 28
    Points : 30
    Join date : 2021-07-30

    [Official] Armata Discussion thread #5 - Page 30 Empty Re: [Official] Armata Discussion thread #5

    Post  Lennox Tue Sep 07, 2021 2:08 pm

    GarryB wrote:
    Regarding the mast mounted sight in the T-90 thread there is a close up and the optics on top have a hand strap and the lens covers have to be manually opened and replaced to use or protect it.... so I am thinking that someone has just gotten some recon binoculars and attached them for show.

    Perhaps there is a drone that can land and take off from the mast position or it might have a different mast they were not ready to show just yet hense the substitution... but the optics shown would not be used for real IMHO.

    A flying tether attached drone might be able to fly from it and act like an arm attached drone normally, but this is not it.

    I think the mast mounted sight can be retracted from inside the tank. Kinda like the Strv 122. Maybe they made it that way so both the tank commander and the troops outside can use it, but I don't see any advantages doing that. It could be that it's a placeholder like you said (does anyone recognize the handheld model? That would somewhat confirm this)

    Anyway, it's only for commander version of T-90M, though.

    Also there were concepts of the T-14 with a Pterodactyl drone,  does anyone have any info on that
    Broski
    Broski

    Posts : 88
    Points : 90
    Join date : 2021-07-12

    [Official] Armata Discussion thread #5 - Page 30 Empty Re: [Official] Armata Discussion thread #5

    Post  Broski Tue Sep 07, 2021 3:07 pm

    Lennox wrote:Also there were concepts of the T-14 with a Pterodactyl drone,  does anyone have any info on that

    The new generation of UAVs capable of flying up dozens of meters in the air will allow Russian tanks to scan areas almost 10 kilometers away.

    The Pterodaktyls, attached via cable to Russia’s advanced Armata T-14 tanks, will carry thermal night vision gear and radar and will considerably increase the distance at which the tank crews can spot targets.
    https://sputniknews.com/20161207/russia-drones-tanks-1048265399.html
    https://abilk.com/russias-armata-tanks-to-be-equipped-with-reconnaissance-drone/

    No updates since it was announced in 2016, so they must still be working on it.
    GarryB
    GarryB

    Posts : 30564
    Points : 31094
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    [Official] Armata Discussion thread #5 - Page 30 Empty Re: [Official] Armata Discussion thread #5

    Post  GarryB Wed Sep 08, 2021 3:02 am

    The shot from behind seemed to suggest that the green part of the mast looks fixed and that it seems to be attached to an oblong box along the back of the turret bustle... it does not look like it can fold down horizontally and there is not enough room for it to concertina down like some of their really big antenna masts on their other recon vehicles.

    Based on that I think the green portion is fixed and the silver bit inside that allows it to be extended upwards almost the same height again perhaps.

    But as I said on the other thread the optic covers at attached rubber lens covers and there is a hand strap on the side.

    There is no decent image of the rear where you would normally look through if you were holding them but the hand strap and the optic covers are a dead give away.

    I mean it is certainly possible at the last minute it was not cleared to be shown so they put a portable one on there to hide the real ones features, because they probably could not take the entire thing off.

    It is attached to the very back of the Bustle position.

    It could still use a tether as well with being able to be raised up on the mast to say 10-12 metres, but with the optics itself being some sort of quad drone that can fly up into the air while tethered to the tanks mast... you could power the drone via the tether which would give it unlimited endurance and a secure un-interceptable communications link to the drone for flight control and watching the feedback.... some sort of internal winch could let out tether and draw it back in depending on the flight of the drone so it could be winched back onto the top of the mast in any weather or crosswind quite safely without any great need for skill or precision.

    These are the images I am talking about:

    [Official] Armata Discussion thread #5 - Page 30 Hiv_2t10
    [Official] Armata Discussion thread #5 - Page 30 Dcli1e10

    Hole likes this post

    lyle6
    lyle6

    Posts : 740
    Points : 742
    Join date : 2020-09-14
    Location : Philippines

    [Official] Armata Discussion thread #5 - Page 30 Empty Re: [Official] Armata Discussion thread #5

    Post  lyle6 Thu Sep 09, 2021 11:22 pm

    Photogrammetry of T-14 MBT:
    [Official] Armata Discussion thread #5 - Page 30 E-2qEO-WQAMQOxj?format=jpg&name=4096x4096
    [Official] Armata Discussion thread #5 - Page 30 E-2qEO_XIAEi2vd?format=jpg&name=4096x4096
    [Official] Armata Discussion thread #5 - Page 30 E-2qEPFXsAElwrK?format=jpg&name=4096x4096
    [Official] Armata Discussion thread #5 - Page 30 E-2qEPBWQAIbGj3?format=jpg&name=4096x4096
    Stolen from:
    https://twitter.com/aviakurs/status/1435991047935610890

    flamming_python, dino00, miketheterrible and Lennox like this post

    PapaDragon
    PapaDragon

    Posts : 11423
    Points : 11493
    Join date : 2015-04-26
    Location : Fort Evil, Serbia

    [Official] Armata Discussion thread #5 - Page 30 Empty Re: [Official] Armata Discussion thread #5

    Post  PapaDragon Fri Sep 10, 2021 2:45 am


    I've been thinking, Zapad 21 would be nice opportunity to have official in-service debut of T-14

    Do you guys think we could see that happening?
    avatar
    Lennox

    Posts : 28
    Points : 30
    Join date : 2021-07-30

    [Official] Armata Discussion thread #5 - Page 30 Empty Re: [Official] Armata Discussion thread #5

    Post  Lennox Fri Sep 10, 2021 3:01 am

    PapaDragon wrote:
    I've been thinking, Zapad 21 would be nice opportunity to have official in-service debut of T-14

    Do you guys think we could see that happening?

    I suppose we will. The guys who received the test batch have to get some experience to write a kind of a "manual" and doctrine for the rest of the Armed Force, and this would be a perfect opportunity to do so.
    flamming_python
    flamming_python

    Posts : 4950
    Points : 5034
    Join date : 2012-01-30

    [Official] Armata Discussion thread #5 - Page 30 Empty Re: [Official] Armata Discussion thread #5

    Post  flamming_python Fri Sep 10, 2021 4:40 am

    PapaDragon wrote:
    I've been thinking, Zapad 21 would be nice opportunity to have official in-service debut of T-14

    Do you guys think we could see that happening?

    [Official] Armata Discussion thread #5 - Page 30 00c40014b33f4988e9693e4505cd301e53942295
    lancelot
    lancelot

    Posts : 478
    Points : 480
    Join date : 2020-10-18

    [Official] Armata Discussion thread #5 - Page 30 Empty Re: [Official] Armata Discussion thread #5

    Post  lancelot Sun Sep 12, 2021 7:37 am

    I remember there being talk about possible manufacturing rate issues for the engine. But I think that was just BS.
    This engine is way ahead of the competition. I suspect it will have multiple uses beyond the Armata platform.
    This is likely the modern Russian equivalent of the V-2 engine of Soviet WW2 fame.
    The engine is presently tuned way down to keep its lifetime up. As time goes by its performance is sure to increase.

    I would not be surprised if most of the issues are with getting the Armata combat systems software and hardware working properly.
    Just remember all the issues with the F-35 software and then just consider that the Armata is supposed to do way more than your average tank.
    I think that is the cause of the delays. Software.
    GarryB
    GarryB

    Posts : 30564
    Points : 31094
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    [Official] Armata Discussion thread #5 - Page 30 Empty Re: [Official] Armata Discussion thread #5

    Post  GarryB Sun Sep 12, 2021 8:45 am

    A lot of integrated systems that need to work together... for instance your laser detection system should not pop smoke every time you lase a target yourself.

    A lot of things will be automated too hopefully to make them easier... it sounds like they will have an automated loading vehicle that loads ammo into the tank without the crew needing to leave the vehicle... this would be a huge step forward because at the moment you load the ammo one piece at a time and with it being two piece ammo that means 90 items loaded one at a time into the auto loader and the various locations in the tank.

    The engine for the Armata is brand new and designed from scratch to be reliable and fuel efficient in the 1,800hp range, but with future potential growth up to about 2,500hp with new materials initially with less engine life and efficiency but improving over time... and is intended for the entire Armata family, just like the engine for the Kurganets and Boomerang is the same with them being in the same weight range.
    George1
    George1

    Posts : 16580
    Points : 17085
    Join date : 2011-12-22
    Location : Greece

    [Official] Armata Discussion thread #5 - Page 30 Empty Re: [Official] Armata Discussion thread #5

    Post  George1 Today at 4:08 pm

    Comparison of two versions of the Armata T-14 tank, a newer one on the left, an older one on the right. (c) telegram channel AviaKurs.

    [Official] Armata Discussion thread #5 - Page 30 48252510

    lyle6 and Russian_Patriot_ like this post


    Sponsored content

    [Official] Armata Discussion thread #5 - Page 30 Empty Re: [Official] Armata Discussion thread #5

    Post  Sponsored content


      Current date/time is Sat Sep 18, 2021 8:50 pm