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    MiG-29/ΜiG-35 Fulcrum: News #2

    Finty
    Finty

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    Post  Finty Tue Jul 27, 2021 9:22 pm

    Mir wrote:
    Finty wrote:Combat aircraft would be the BAE Hawk Trainer or the Original Harrier, the Hawker Siddeley GR1, latter entered service in 1969. Shame what happened to manufacturing in this country although I must admit I’m not too fussed about TSR2 being binned as I prefer the aircraft which eventually took its roles- the Panavia Tornado.

    As a South African the Buccaneers and the Canberras brings back good memories! Smile

    It's a pity none of these classics can still be found flying here in the UK, same with the Lightning, Vulcan, Victor, Jaguar, Tornado, Harrier. List goes on!

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    GarryB
    GarryB

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    Post  GarryB Wed Jul 28, 2021 11:37 am

    Tbf, that’s probably because they hadn’t enjoyed 45 years of Soviet domination and life was deemed shitter in the east so didn’t want to repeat it.

    Yeah, that is what they wanted... Soviet overlords to leave and American overlords to arrive and take over.

    It was western economic sanctions and lack of investment that stunted economic growth for the eastern block... as shown by the massive and rapid growth of communist China with the west using them as their international sweat shop.

    Remind me, how many people were shot trying to escape from West Berlin to East? Not as many as the other way round!

    Economic migration is perfectly normal, why don't you ask the East Germans how democracy and freedom is working out for them at the moment.... or perhaps you will have to wait while they ask Washington what they can or cannot say in response.

    That is a pretty compelling point lol.

    I am actually rather surprised the EU outsourced its slave labour to China too... I would have thought it would make rather more sense to outsource production to eastern european countries... you still get cheap labour but you would be building up the economies of EU countries instead of pissing money away to Asia... but now eastern europeans migrate to other EU countries for better paying jobs and most of your cheap goods come from China...

    Never forget that the US came out of the War relatively unscathed - in fact they profited immensely from the War. The US was the richest country by far. Germany and the USSR in particular was devastated by the War.

    Living standards in eastern europe were much better than living standards in most of Russia, but still the bitched and moaned and complained... which is why Putin is not interested in a return to the Soviet Union or the Warsaw Pact... Russia is better off without them.

    Hence the Berlin Wall and the East-West divide. That divide did not come because Stalin ordered it - it was because of economic blackmail from their Western "partners".

    Stalin proposed a return to borders, meaning Soviet forces withdrawing to the Soviet Union and British and French and US forces retreating to their borders but the west was not interested.


    As a South African the Buccaneers and the Canberras brings back good memories!

    The Bucc... my favourite British aircraft... quite modest looking, but at subsonic speeds with a nuclear bomb under each wing it had better speed and range at low level than an F-16 and it could operate from aircraft carriers...

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    Mir
    Mir

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    Post  Mir Wed Jul 28, 2021 1:31 pm

    GarryB wrote:
    The Bucc... my favourite British aircraft... quite modest looking, but at subsonic speeds with a nuclear bomb under each wing it had better speed and range at low level than an F-16 and it could operate from aircraft carriers...
    Off Topic

    The small number of Buccaneers (and Canberras) served the SAF with distinction esp in during the Border War. The Mirages were a bit short ranged so the Buccs were used extensively in the bombing and interdiction roles. On one occasion an empty Bucc was used to effectively harass Angolan troops from attacking surrounded paratroopers during an ops that turned a bit ugly. A superb low level bomber. It even helped the Tornado's out during the Gulf War.

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    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Thu Jul 29, 2021 5:58 am

    Yeah, I remember in the gulf war they took their buccs because the new flash wonderful Tornados couldn't mark targets and bomb at the same time or something... they were probably toss bombing...

    I also remember them talking about the fixed weapon pods the Tornados had... there were two types, but both were fitted to the belly of the aircraft and released submunitions as it flew so the idea was that you flew straight down the length of an enemy runway dropping munitions along its length, so instead of 2 x 500kg bombs making two rather big holes, you had about 500 x 1kg bombs each making a hole down the runway... which takes a lot longer to fix... especially if 10% of them don't explode and become UXO on the runway which has to be cleared first before you do anything.

    I seem to remember one was German and the other was used by the other countries in the coalition... BTW the Soviets already use the KGMU-2 fixed units, which just looked like a normal cluster bomb but it was not dropped... the munitions were released and you carried it back to base to be refilled and reused... on an aircraft like the Su-25 with 8 mounted on the wings it would allow minefields to be set up very rapidly.

    Taking on runways was a problem however because flying straight and level down the length of a runway led to Shilka kills... kills by Shilkas... no matter what flight speed they got up to... so they stopped talking about these systems after that.

    It was the same with hovering helicopters in Afghanistan... the west always criticised the Hind for constantly flying like a plane... suggesting it was under powered and needed the wing lift to remain in the air, but after they spent some time in Afghanistan they realised that a hovering helicopter is a sitting duck and the Afghans will fire anything at you like RPGs and ATGMs which are surprisingly effective against helicopters hovering.

    You can't beat combat experience for proving or disproving ideas and combat tactics.

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    Finty
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    Post  Finty Thu Jul 29, 2021 2:16 pm

    GarryB wrote:Yeah, I remember in the gulf war they took their buccs because the new flash wonderful Tornados couldn't mark targets and bomb at the same time or something... they were probably toss bombing...

    That's right, PAVE SPIKE targeting pods were used by the Buccs as the Tornados weren’t all equipped with TIALD pods. History repeated itself in Libya in 2011 when it was the Tornado GR4s spiking targets for the Typhoons. Of course with project centurion, the Typhoon was bought fully up to speed in the air to ground role and the Tornado could be withdrawn, much to my sadness!


    I also remember them talking about the fixed weapon pods the Tornados had... there were two types, but both were fitted to the belly of the aircraft and released submunitions as it flew so the idea was that you flew straight down the length of an enemy runway dropping munitions along its length, so instead of 2 x 500kg bombs making two rather big holes, you had about 500 x 1kg bombs each making a hole down the runway... which takes a lot longer to fix... especially if  10% of them don't explode and become UXO on the runway which has to be cleared first before you do anything.

    Taking on runways was a problem however because flying straight and level down the length of a runway led to Shilka kills... kills by Shilkas... no matter what flight speed they got up to... so they stopped talking about these systems after that.

    The weapon the RAF used was the JP233, sounds impressive on paper with 200 or so anti-personnel mines in additional to the approx 30 anti-runway munitions. As you say, low level work was dangerous and the RAF lost a sobering 8 Tornados so the switch to medium level could be justified. Going back to MiG-29s, it makes me wonder just how many aircraft the RAF would've lost when trying these anti-runway tactics against the Soviets in Zerbst and all the other 16th Air Army bases in East Germany!

    *edit* further reading here... https://www.raf.mod.uk/what-we-do/centre-for-air-and-space-power-studies/documents1/air-power-review-vol-19-no-2-first-gulf-war-25th-anniversary-special/
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    Mig-31BM2 Super Irbis-E

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    Post  Mig-31BM2 Super Irbis-E Fri Jul 30, 2021 2:34 am

    It's a mistake to buy everything and eliminate the competition of the design offices. MIG should get clear orders.

    1. MIG-31BM upgrade up to 2026 for 140 mg-31bm. Radar Upgrade, K-Band, Leadership of Drones, Expand AWACS Tasks, New Engine, TOR Rakten for self to safe?

    2. MiG-41 of the 5th generation or as the Eurofighter 4.5 generation with very low RCS up to 2036 at the troop for introduction.

    3. MIG-35K to 2024 for the Navy and India. Value on the best manufacturing quality should be in the foreground.

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    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Fri Jul 30, 2021 1:35 pm

    Going back to MiG-29s, it makes me wonder just how many aircraft the RAF would've lost when trying these anti-runway tactics against the Soviets in Zerbst and all the other 16th Air Army bases in East Germany!

    With Tunguska and TOR operating in the 1980s I would say all of the ones that tried..., but lets just be relieved it didn't happen and we are here to think about such things.

    3. MIG-35K to 2024 for the Navy and India. Value on the best manufacturing quality should be in the foreground.

    They could make 150-200 MiG-35s for the VKS to fill out frontal aviation units with cheap modern multirole fighters, and continue development of this new single engined fighter and twin engined carrier based stealth fighter and see what they come up with.

    The whole point of retaining different design bureaus as departments in UAC is for variety and choice... even when programmes fail their technology can be used in other areas on other projects.

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    JohninMK
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    Post  JohninMK Fri Aug 06, 2021 4:05 pm

    Keeping it tight Smile

    MiG-29/ΜiG-35 Fulcrum: News #2 - Page 21 E79Mm69XIAQBoc9?format=jpg&name=small

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    Russian_Patriot_
    Russian_Patriot_

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    Post  Russian_Patriot_ Thu Aug 19, 2021 11:12 am

    The MiG-29 fighter jet crashed during a training flight in the Astrakhan region. 

    Source: 

    Bad month...

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    Isos
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    Post  Isos Thu Aug 19, 2021 11:13 am

    Mig-29SMT it seems.
    Russian_Patriot_
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    Post  Russian_Patriot_ Mon Aug 23, 2021 7:56 pm

    A MiG-29 burned down in the Astrakhan region. The plane was undergoing scheduled repair work in a military unit in the Narimanov district. Early in the morning, the MiG-29 broke out and completely burned out, there were no injuries.
    MiG-29/ΜiG-35 Fulcrum: News #2 - Page 21 Fthmru10

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    AMCXXL
    AMCXXL

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    Post  AMCXXL Mon Aug 23, 2021 8:09 pm

    Russian_Patriot_ wrote:A MiG-29 burned down in the Astrakhan region. The plane was undergoing scheduled repair work in a military unit in the Narimanov district. Early in the morning, the MiG-29 broke out and completely burned out, there were no injuries.
    MiG-29/ΜiG-35 Fulcrum: News #2 - Page 21 Fthmru10

    This is a real image of that airplane in the moment of burning ?

    there are too many accidents and planes burning lately. Besides the crashed planes, a MiG-31BM also burned "spontaneously" in Khotilovo last year and an older one in Perm 3 years ago.

    Perhaps the FSB should investigate this thoroughly, there are many Ukrainian Nazis infiltrating Russia doing sabotage and the Armed Forces are not immune to this.

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