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    MiG-29/ΜiG-35 Fulcrum: News #2

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    Austin

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    Post  Austin on Sun Apr 12, 2020 3:56 pm

    Good Interview with 3 ex IAF Air Vice Marshal , All 3 swear by Mig-29UPG upgrade and more 21 is being procured and upgraded to UPG standard.

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    mnztr

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    Post  mnztr on Sun Apr 12, 2020 5:40 pm

    So I wonder where these planes are from? Strorage or active planes already in upgrade process? I guess the RUF can just sell off the upgrade 29s and procure 35s as repalcement. Good for Russia, good for India and really great for MIG as they try to define their future. To me the projects that will define if MIG can regain its former glory over Sukhoi will be the MIG-41 and the lightweight 5G that has some Mig 29 compoents. To me the 35 is a truly underrated aircraft. Even the 29 UPG and K are very potent planes. 200m Take off WOW!! I have no idea why India does not just partner up with Russia to build a 5G mig 29 based plane. Lets face it their Tejas is scrap. If they want to save Tejas dial 911 SAAB who is the best at light fighters.
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    Post  GarryB on Mon Apr 13, 2020 3:57 am

    The thing is that Tegas is a lighter aircraft than the 29, so it is effectively trying to be a new MiG-21 being light and cheap, but they seem to be trying to make it everything to everyone...

    Personally I think with modern equipment you are never going to get cheap... that ship has sailed... and again this is just me but I think the best way going forward is to have basically three types... a heavy, a medium and a stealthy... the stealthy is never going to be cheap so it might as well be heavy to get the best performance potential, but to keep numbers you could have a cheaper low cost lower performance medium as a numbers aircraft.

    The problem with light aircraft is that they will lack some critical features to keep them light and cheap... I think the role of cheap light fighters should be taken by armed drones... but I really don't think they will actually be cheap anyway.

    The SU will be much more expensive and require much more maint. then the Mig-35. The Mig will be about 80% as good. Once you blow away the AWACS and tankers the USAF and NATO will have very limited ability to attack at any distance

    And after the first few days when the Su-35s and Su-57s have taken down the AWACS and JSTARS and any inflight refuelling aircraft that wander too close, the threat from HATO will be dramatically reduced and both sides will likely be flying over much shorter distances with less time on station... which means the MiGs will be fine.

    Of the range of jobs they will need to be able to do there might be 10-15% that need more range or missile fire power or stealth or speed than the 35 can manage, so Su-35s or Su-57s or MiG-31s need to be used, but for the rest why use a bigger much more expensive plane for a job a smaller lighter cheaper plane can perform... there are probably jobs the 29M can do instead of the 35... at a time when an F-35 costs almost 70K per hour to operate, they said the MiG-35 is 40% cheaper than the MiG-29... AFAIK operational costs for the MiG-29 were about 9K per hour... so 40% less is probably 6 to 5 K per hour...
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    mnztr

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    Post  mnztr on Mon Apr 13, 2020 7:17 am

    if a MIG 35 is as cheap as 6K/hour to operate...can I get a back seat ride if I pay for the training flight? Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB on Tue Apr 14, 2020 7:46 am



    From about 11:00 onwards is the bit on the 29...
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    Post  mnztr on Tue Apr 14, 2020 8:15 pm

    wow the older 29's smoke like a goddamn B-52!!! Shocked
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    Post  GarryB on Wed Apr 15, 2020 8:39 am

    Yeah, but in the real world it doesn't actually matter very much... It is not like the B-52s are super vulnerable because of their smoke trails, nor the F-4 phantom for the same reason.... the fact is that having powerful reliable responsive engines that don't choke on reverse airflows like you get in tail slides or hard manouvering is much more valuable than not blowing a bit of smoke...

    It is like the americans at airshows complaining that there are gaps in the panels of MiG-29s... so what... they used internal fuel tanks with their own skins, unlike western aircraft that needed sealed external surfaces to contain fuel...

    In terms of aerodynamics and other factors important to the job at hand the smokey engines and not very tight fitting panels didn't make any difference at all, but they did make them cheaper and easier to operate...
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    Post  slasher on Thu Apr 16, 2020 3:32 pm

    Brief clip apparently showing recent footage of Russia's Mig-29SMT aircraft.

    https://iz.ru/997131/video/v-astrakhani-proshli-ucheniia-istrebitelei-mig-29smt
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    Post  mnztr on Fri Apr 17, 2020 12:28 am

    The SMT is the one Algeria declined correct? And now Russia has a sub-fleet of 60? Were any mig-29 deployed operationally with thrust vectoring?
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    Post  GarryB on Fri Apr 17, 2020 1:58 pm

    My understanding is that the MiG-29OVT was the only one with full TVC and it was a display plane, not a service plane...

    It is the old story... it is only eventually that they realise the value of these things... like ERA and like APS in tanks... TVC is not free but the cost is tiny compare to the capability it provides... I would think it would be useful for carrier aircraft to allow much lower approach speeds and lower stall speeds for takeoffs.

    The official reason they declined the SMT MiGs was because the airframes were not produced brand new, but were stock left unused.

    The actual reason is because Sukhoi offered Su-30s for the same price...
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    Post  mnztr on Sat Apr 18, 2020 1:55 am

    Hard to compete with that, I would take the SU as well. I am surprised the Russian govt allowed this nonsense. I understand TVC is still an option on the Mig 29. I wonder if it would help in a carrier landing as the Mig is already capable of very high angles of attack.
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    Post  GarryB on Sat Apr 18, 2020 6:32 am

    Well actually I probably would go for the MiG... first of all it is fully multirole, but being a smaller lighter aircraft it should be rather cheaper to operate than the rather bigger Su-30.

    Very long range patrol aircraft can cover enormous territory... but generally if there is no air field there why would you want to defend it?

    If you have something worth defending then you likely have an air field nearby... any planes based there will be defending the local area so don't need enormous flight range... if you had an Su-30 based there you either wont be using its excellent range or if you are run the risk that your aircraft is a long way away when you might have cause to need it. Both aircraft have similar flight speeds and therefore can only cover a similar area at a time.

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